A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

    This Owens news is pretty big. The potential of 4 top starting prospects and possibly others to emerge from last year's crop this year. Not to mention great draft position this year. The future is starting to look really good for the Sox on the farm. 

    Unless we are talking about those 13 of 15 who actually got struck out by Owens last sunday....

    Personally, I'll still take that news in a heartbeat. I don't mind having 90% cannon fodder down there if a Napoleon or 2 emerge each year. 




    Things are looking good on the farm and w/ the #7 overall pick this year it will only help. Tough time understanding all this Drew bashing? is it because he has a concussion and guys want to kick him while he's down. Look Iggy was given every possible chance to win starting SS job last yr and failed miserably [.118 in 25 games] Boegarts/Marrero are not ready, did anyone expect Ben to open the season like that. Funny the minute Iggy's avg got up to .270 everyone gets back on the bandwagon. Look Drew on his best days if healthy can put up Jeter type numbers offensively, he got 9.5 mil not because he's never done a thing in MLB, other teams were making him offers including the A's who had him for there stretch drive to the playoffs. As for defense metrics, watched the defensive metric guru JJ Hardy vs RS the other day. Lyle Overbay [LH] at plate, man on 1st ground ball [not hard hit] by Overbay to SS side of bag and Hardy has tough time getting to ball and can't get to ball to turn Dbl play. LH up man on 1st and he can't get to a softly hit groundball, this is the problem I have w/ defensive metrics - its all judgement based. This is the SS that metrics love? If ever you should get to a ground ball on left side of 2nd base its w/ a runner on 1st and a LH batter up!

    Look not here to bash Iggy, want to see him succeed as much as anyone, be crazy not to love that glove. But not willing to say hitting 270 in ST is some great accomplishment. He must prove he can do it on a consistent basis. Drew will be the starter when healthy and/or until Iggy proves he can hit at least be a decent bat at MLB level.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

    This Owens news is pretty big. The potential of 4 top starting prospects and possibly others to emerge from last year's crop this year. Not to mention great draft position this year. The future is starting to look really good for the Sox on the farm. 

    Unless we are talking about those 13 of 15 who actually got struck out by Owens last sunday....

    Personally, I'll still take that news in a heartbeat. I don't mind having 90% cannon fodder down there if a Napoleon or 2 emerge each year. 



    We have drafted several pitchers high in the draft the last 2 years. Some of them should start to emerge as well.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Things are looking good on the farm and w/ the #7 overall pick this year it will only help. Tough time understanding all this Drew bashing? is it because he has a concussion and guys want to kick him while he's down.

    Most of us are against the Drew signing were against the Drew signing the day it happened and not since the injury.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

     Look Iggy was given every possible chance to win starting SS job last yr and failed miserably [.118 in 25 games] 

    Please, stop the 25 game sample size definitive assesments.  We have years and years of data to "bash" Drew with. You are using 25 games to bash Iggy. Please stop.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Look not here to bash Iggy

    Saying we did not like the Drew signing and prefer Iggy is not bashing Drew either. We all want him to do well.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to emp9's comment:

     

    Never got the Drew signing, or the Gomes signing for that matter. W/ Victorino signed, there was one open OF spot that, in times like these, should have been left open. Nava, JBJ, if Kalish didn't get hurt you cld added him too, maybe Brentz. inking Drew came out of nowhere for many because AGAIN, we HAVE depth there. Hope all this gets sorted out. W/ Papi out, Gomes might prove to be a happy mistake. 

     



    with the loss of CC AND Ross we had 2 OF spots open. NOBODY predicted that JBJ would be ready by opening day 2014. NO ONE!

     

    last year we had wiggle room in the OF and look what happened, a few injuries and we had an OF of Nava, Sweeny and Kalish with Repko/lin and other MiBL players making regular appearances. I can see why they wanted to make sure they had enough starters and enough depth to survive another injury filled season. BTW Gomes was signed BEFORE victorino.....

    as for the drew signing, what did Iggy do to show he was ready for the bigs?? his MiLB stats were sub-par at best and his short stint in the MLB speaks for itself. Aside from Ciriaco and Holt(who wasn't in the mix until we made the Hanrahan trade a month ago), we really don't have any ML ready SSs in the organization. Not Iggy, Not boggy, not Marerro, not Lin. So it make sense that BC would look outside the org for a SS.

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to darrylfries' comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    FWIW moon, Gomes HAS been putting good swings on RHP this spring... not saying he will suddenly hit RHP as good as he hits LHP but it could improve.. or it could just be spring training

     



    I don't trust Gomes vs RHPs for any extended time. Nava is more proven, and now we should have JBJ to play OF.

     

     



    Me either I like Nava.  Not sure about Victotino  for that matter.. Both will be hard to move especially Vic.  The Red Sox overlooked Bradley costing us money we could have better spent. 

     



    funny, i don't remember you calling out BC when he signed shane/Gomes because JBJ is ML ready... in fact, no one predicted that JBJ would vie for a ML roster spot in 2014. People said that he would likely get a sept callup but NO ONE predicted that he would compete for an opening day roster spot.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to darrylfries' comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    FWIW moon, Gomes HAS been putting good swings on RHP this spring... not saying he will suddenly hit RHP as good as he hits LHP but it could improve.. or it could just be spring training

     



    I don't trust Gomes vs RHPs for any extended time. Nava is more proven, and now we should have JBJ to play OF.

     

     



    Me either I like Nava.  Not sure about Victotino  for that matter.. Both will be hard to move especially Vic.  The Red Sox overlooked Bradley costing us money we could have better spent. 

     

     



    funny, i don't remember you calling out BC when he signed shane/Gomes because JBJ is ML ready... in fact, no one predicted that JBJ would vie for a ML roster spot in 2014. People said that he would likely get a sept callup but NO ONE predicted that he would compete for an opening day roster spot.

     




    Not with his AA numbers, they didn't.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    softy will soon be telling everyone he called it.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from emp9. Show emp9's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to emp9's comment:

     

    Never got the Drew signing, or the Gomes signing for that matter. W/ Victorino signed, there was one open OF spot that, in times like these, should have been left open. Nava, JBJ, if Kalish didn't get hurt you cld added him too, maybe Brentz. inking Drew came out of nowhere for many because AGAIN, we HAVE depth there. Hope all this gets sorted out. W/ Papi out, Gomes might prove to be a happy mistake. 

     



    with the loss of CC AND Ross we had 2 OF spots open. NOBODY predicted that JBJ would be ready by opening day 2014. NO ONE!

     

    last year we had wiggle room in the OF and look what happened, a few injuries and we had an OF of Nava, Sweeny and Kalish with Repko/lin and other MiBL players making regular appearances. I can see why they wanted to make sure they had enough starters and enough depth to survive another injury filled season. BTW Gomes was signed BEFORE victorino.....

    as for the drew signing, what did Iggy do to show he was ready for the bigs?? his MiLB stats were sub-par at best and his short stint in the MLB speaks for itself. Aside from Ciriaco and Holt(who wasn't in the mix until we made the Hanrahan trade a month ago), we really don't have any ML ready SSs in the organization. Not Iggy, Not boggy, not Marerro, not Lin. So it make sense that BC would look outside the org for a SS.



    I never said anyone did predict JBJ too be this good Or MLB ready. I could have sworn we signed Vic before Gomes but you cld be right. You probly right. 

    The Drew signing was still a surprise to me, I thought Iggy was a lock no matter what. Pedroia never showed that much when he came up either. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to emp9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to emp9's comment:

     

    Never got the Drew signing, or the Gomes signing for that matter. W/ Victorino signed, there was one open OF spot that, in times like these, should have been left open. Nava, JBJ, if Kalish didn't get hurt you cld added him too, maybe Brentz. inking Drew came out of nowhere for many because AGAIN, we HAVE depth there. Hope all this gets sorted out. W/ Papi out, Gomes might prove to be a happy mistake. 

     



    with the loss of CC AND Ross we had 2 OF spots open. NOBODY predicted that JBJ would be ready by opening day 2014. NO ONE!

     

    last year we had wiggle room in the OF and look what happened, a few injuries and we had an OF of Nava, Sweeny and Kalish with Repko/lin and other MiBL players making regular appearances. I can see why they wanted to make sure they had enough starters and enough depth to survive another injury filled season. BTW Gomes was signed BEFORE victorino.....

    as for the drew signing, what did Iggy do to show he was ready for the bigs?? his MiLB stats were sub-par at best and his short stint in the MLB speaks for itself. Aside from Ciriaco and Holt(who wasn't in the mix until we made the Hanrahan trade a month ago), we really don't have any ML ready SSs in the organization. Not Iggy, Not boggy, not Marerro, not Lin. So it make sense that BC would look outside the org for a SS.

     



    I never said anyone did predict JBJ too be this good Or MLB ready. I could have sworn we signed Vic before Gomes but you cld be right. You probly right. 


    Gomes was one of our first signings of the winter... i think it was D Ross then Gomes (essentially sealing Cody Ross' fate of not rejoining the sox for 2013). Vic was signed during the winter meetings i believe. Gomes was signed much earlier.

    The Drew signing was still a surprise to me, I thought Iggy was a lock no matter what. Pedroia never showed that much when he came up either. 

    the difference is, Pedroia actually showed some offensive proficiency in the minors.... Iggy has yet to prove he can hit. Pedey posted a line of .307/.392/.452 in his time in the minors. he EARNED his MLb spot. the only thing Iggy has earned is praise for his glove and another stint in AAA..

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from emp9. Show emp9's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Still Pedroia batted .170 for his first two months in the majors. Just saying there's a precedent for that line of thinking. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to emp9's comment:

    Still Pedroia batted .170 for his first two months in the majors. Just saying there's a precedent for that line of thinking. 




    but he still warranted a playing spot. going back to AAA wouldn't have helped him so the only logical step was to play him in the majors and let him adjust. Iggy CAN still benefit A LOT in AAA, putting him in the bigs now would be rushing him IMO. i'd rather see him in the MLB when he's earned it.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

     Look Iggy was given every possible chance to win starting SS job last yr and failed miserably [.118 in 25 games] 

    Please, stop the 25 game sample size definitive assesments.  We have years and years of data to "bash" Drew with. You are using 25 games to bash Iggy. Please stop.

     




     

    If not happy with the 25 game sample @ MLB. Could always look at his 3 yrs in minors and a TOTAL of 38 XBH's in those 3 yrs or the .300 slg % or 600 ops in the minors. Look he shown vast improvement this spring, but if your not willing to accept 25 MLB games, why should we think 30 ST games is enough evidence to say he's ready when most of those AB's have been against minor league pitching? Just think he should go back to AAA when Drew is healthy and prove to everyone that he can hit better than he's shown in the past, and prove he's ready for the bigs. He does that then I don't care if they put Drew on the bench or trade, Iggy must prove he's ready first IMO and he has not done that as yet.

    By the way Drew has proven to be better than league avg MLB SS when healthy. Might explain why he had a lot of interest this offseason.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    If not happy with the 25 game sample @ MLB. Could always look at his 3 yrs in minors and a TOTAL of 38 XBH's in those 3 yrs or the .300 slg % or 600 ops in the minors. Look he shown vast improvement this spring, but if your not willing to accept 25 MLB games, why should we think 30 ST games is enough evidence to say he's ready when most of those AB's have been against minor league pitching?

    When have I ever come close to even hinting at the slightest possibility that his ST offense has changed my position at all?

    I have repeatedly said I don't think he needs to have even a .600 OPS to be a plus over Drew, and that OBP is more important than SLG%.

     

    Just think he should go back to AAA when Drew is healthy and prove to everyone that he can hit better than he's shown in the past, and prove he's ready for the bigs. He does that then I don't care if they put Drew on the bench or trade, Iggy must prove he's ready first IMO and he has not done that as yet.

    Yes, I understand your point. I get it. It has merit. However, you are misrepresenting my position. 

     

    By the way Drew has proven to be better than league avg MLB SS when healthy. Might explain why he had a lot of interest this offseason.

    Where's the proof? Fldg%?

    He's bottom 3rd at best on UZR.

    He's only got votes on the Fielding Bible 2 times in his career: once he finished 17th and the other 12th.

    Now, he has a pin in his foot. He is not top 15.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    The one deal where we really took a risk was with Victorino IMO. 3 years at $13 mil per year was probably a lot more than he would get elswhere but they look at the numbers and a defensively strong RF is pretty darn important in Fenway and he backs us up well in CF also. They have kept obtaining speedy Outfielders for a reason, and paying top dollar for them. There must be a strong reason for it from a data perspective.

    And if you look at their draft picks it is one CF after another. Ellsbury, Fuentes, Kalish...etc. Speed is very important in their thinking. 

    They obviously wanted to prepare for when Ellsbury is probably gone. Good FA center fielders are tough to find sometimes. They look ahead well:

    2014 Free Agent Center fielders

    Alfredo Amezaga (36)
    Rick Ankiel (34)
    Coco Crisp (34) - $7.5MM club option with a $1MM buyout
    Rajai Davis (33)
    Jacoby Ellsbury (30)
    Curtis Granderson (33)
    Franklin Gutierrez (31) - $7.5MM club option with a $500K buyout
    Tony Gwynn Jr. (31)
    Nyjer Morgan (33)
    Andres Torres (36)
    Chris Young (30) - $11MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout

     

    I think Jacoby is going to get paid.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    It should be no surprise they signed Drew. It's a 1 year deal. He is a relatively proven commodity. It's not like they didn't give Iglesias a chance last year and they didn't want to have to rely on him when he might not be ready plus he hasn't been able to stay on the field all year yet in his career. He gets hurt quite a bit.

    The Sox obviously want to win every year and they are risk averse. They are big on having lots of depth and for some reason recently they have needed it bigtime.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    I get your points here, and it is clear the Sox looked for shorter term deals to both minimixe the risk and to provide flexibility of opening for kids on a fast track.

    Yes, the Shane deal was the riskiest due to the 3rd year and relatively high dollar amount based on 2012 numbers, but when looking at what Cody Ross got one could argue, it's not that bad. I would not have done it. I said this on day one: it has nothing to do with JBJ. If we had traded Ellsbury, then it would have made more sense, but I'm not surprised we are already hearing talk of trading him from a few posters- I mean how bad is that?

    I also wasn't too happy about the Gomes signing, but he looks like Cody Ross at about half the cost.

    We've had a couple years or surprisingly poor offense from our OF. It should be better this  year, but they need to stay healthy.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to RedsoxProspects's comment:

    The one deal where we really took a risk was with Victorino IMO. 3 years at $13 mil per year was probably a lot more than he would get elswhere but they look at the numbers and a defensively strong RF is pretty darn important in Fenway and he backs us up well in CF also. They have kept obtaining speedy Outfielders for a reason, and paying top dollar for them. There must be a strong reason for it from a data perspective.

    And if you look at their draft picks it is one CF after another. Ellsbury, Fuentes, Kalish...etc. Speed is very important in their thinking. 

    They obviously wanted to prepare for when Ellsbury is probably gone. Good FA center fielders are tough to find sometimes. They look ahead well:

    2014 Free Agent Center fielders

    Alfredo Amezaga (36)
    Rick Ankiel (34)
    Coco Crisp (34) - $7.5MM club option with a $1MM buyout
    Rajai Davis (33)
    Jacoby Ellsbury (30)
    Curtis Granderson (33)
    Franklin Gutierrez (31) - $7.5MM club option with a $500K buyout
    Tony Gwynn Jr. (31)
    Nyjer Morgan (33)
    Andres Torres (36)
    Chris Young (30) - $11MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout

     

    I think Jacoby is going to get paid.



    Ellsbury will bet paid if 1. He stays relatively healthy this year and 2. He has another great year with the bat. He has had only one of them. And although he gets to a lot of balls other OF do not get to his arm is very weak.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to RedsoxProspects's comment:

     

    The one deal where we really took a risk was with Victorino IMO. 3 years at $13 mil per year was probably a lot more than he would get elswhere but they look at the numbers and a defensively strong RF is pretty darn important in Fenway and he backs us up well in CF also. They have kept obtaining speedy Outfielders for a reason, and paying top dollar for them. There must be a strong reason for it from a data perspective.

    And if you look at their draft picks it is one CF after another. Ellsbury, Fuentes, Kalish...etc. Speed is very important in their thinking. 

    They obviously wanted to prepare for when Ellsbury is probably gone. Good FA center fielders are tough to find sometimes. They look ahead well:

    2014 Free Agent Center fielders

    Alfredo Amezaga (36)
    Rick Ankiel (34)
    Coco Crisp (34) - $7.5MM club option with a $1MM buyout
    Rajai Davis (33)
    Jacoby Ellsbury (30)
    Curtis Granderson (33)
    Franklin Gutierrez (31) - $7.5MM club option with a $500K buyout
    Tony Gwynn Jr. (31)
    Nyjer Morgan (33)
    Andres Torres (36)
    Chris Young (30) - $11MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout

     

    I think Jacoby is going to get paid.

     



    Ellsbury will bet paid if 1. He stays relatively healthy this year and 2. He has another great year with the bat. He has had only one of them. And although he gets to a lot of balls other OF do not get to his arm is very weak.

     




    I don't disagree, but Jacoby has had a couple of decent to  more than decent years to go with 2011, plus an excellent partial season in 2007 (.902 OPS in 127 PAs).

    2008:  .280  50 SBs

    2009: .301  70 SBs  45 XBHs and a .355 OBP

     

    Some fool GM will overpay him by leaps and bounds. He'll get BJ Upton like money, when offering $39M/3 is probably too much, even with a good & healthy 2013 season.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to RedsoxProspects's comment:

     

    The one deal where we really took a risk was with Victorino IMO. 3 years at $13 mil per year was probably a lot more than he would get elswhere but they look at the numbers and a defensively strong RF is pretty darn important in Fenway and he backs us up well in CF also. They have kept obtaining speedy Outfielders for a reason, and paying top dollar for them. There must be a strong reason for it from a data perspective.

    And if you look at their draft picks it is one CF after another. Ellsbury, Fuentes, Kalish...etc. Speed is very important in their thinking. 

    They obviously wanted to prepare for when Ellsbury is probably gone. Good FA center fielders are tough to find sometimes. They look ahead well:

    2014 Free Agent Center fielders

    Alfredo Amezaga (36)
    Rick Ankiel (34)
    Coco Crisp (34) - $7.5MM club option with a $1MM buyout
    Rajai Davis (33)
    Jacoby Ellsbury (30)
    Curtis Granderson (33)
    Franklin Gutierrez (31) - $7.5MM club option with a $500K buyout
    Tony Gwynn Jr. (31)
    Nyjer Morgan (33)
    Andres Torres (36)
    Chris Young (30) - $11MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout

     

    I think Jacoby is going to get paid.

     



    Ellsbury will bet paid if 1. He stays relatively healthy this year and 2. He has another great year with the bat. He has had only one of them. And although he gets to a lot of balls other OF do not get to his arm is very weak.

     

     




     

    I don't disagree, but Jacoby has had a couple of decent to  more than decent years to go with 2011, plus an excellent partial season in 2007 (.902 OPS in 127 PAs).

    2008:  .280  50 SBs

    2009: .301  70 SBs  45 XBHs and a .355 OBP

     

    Some fool GM will overpay him by leaps and bounds. He'll get BJ Upton like money, when offering $39M/3 is probably too much, even with a good & healthy 2013 season.



    he should be getting Bj upton money.... BJ is horrible. how and why he got paid that much is beyond me.... but then again, everyone in this FA class was grossly overpaid (minus the lower level gambles stiffy desperately wants the sox to sign). Maybe it's a sign of things to come..

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Ellsbury is scuffling to say the least.  Only 4 HR's last year in 74 games, and none so far this spring.  And no stolen bases this spring.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Some fool GM will overpay him by leaps and bounds. He'll get BJ Upton like money, when offering $39M/3 is probably too much, even with a good & healthy 2013 season.

     



    he should be getting Bj upton money.... BJ is horrible. how and why he got paid that much is beyond me.... but then again, everyone in this FA class was grossly overpaid (minus the lower level gambles stiffy desperately wants the sox to sign). Maybe it's a sign of things to come..

    1) BJ Upton is just 28 (1 year younger than Ellsbury). 1 more year of prime- one less post prime.

    2) He has 6 straight MLB seasons with 548+ PAs (5straight with 610+). Durability has value.

    3) 5 straight seasons with 31+ SBs. I'm not sure if Ells will ever approach 50 again.

    4) Poor BA (.255 career and under .246 for 4 straight years) and poor OBP (.336 career and under .331 for 4 straight as well) - One would expect more from a FT CF'er.

    5) HR totals have risen for 4 straight years: 9>11>18>23>28.

    6) 162 gm avg: .255  20  75  (37 2B+3B / 39 SB w 12 CS) vs Ells  .297  16  73  (41 2B+3B / 53 SB/12 CS)

    7) Stellar Defense: 2nd best UZR since 2007. Strong arm. (Ells has a better UZR/150, but has played half the innings as BJ since 2007.)

     

    I think Jacoby needs a big season to deserve BJ numbers, but I think someone will pay much much more. I just hope it is not Ben.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    If not happy with the 25 game sample @ MLB. Could always look at his 3 yrs in minors and a TOTAL of 38 XBH's in those 3 yrs or the .300 slg % or 600 ops in the minors. Look he shown vast improvement this spring, but if your not willing to accept 25 MLB games, why should we think 30 ST games is enough evidence to say he's ready when most of those AB's have been against minor league pitching?

    When have I ever come close to even hinting at the slightest possibility that his ST offense has changed my position at all?

    I have repeatedly said I don't think he needs to have even a .600 OPS to be a plus over Drew, and that OBP is more important than SLG%.

    Look offensively there is no comparision. Drew had more XBH's in [1] year @ MLB level than Iglaesias had in [3] years in the minors COMBINED. While Iglesias is the better fielder hands down, its not like Drew is terrible like you try to make it out, he makes all the plays just doesn't have the range of of Iglesias, lets not try to make Drew out to be Eduardo Nunez of the Yanks. I like to think of Drew as more a Jeter @ SS and Iggy as Ozzie Smith before he learned to hit and hopefully Iggy will become a decent hitter just as Ozzie did. But must prove it IMO.

     

    Just think he should go back to AAA when Drew is healthy and prove to everyone that he can hit better than he's shown in the past, and prove he's ready for the bigs. He does that then I don't care if they put Drew on the bench or trade, Iggy must prove he's ready first IMO and he has not done that as yet.

    Yes, I understand your point. I get it. It has merit. However, you are misrepresenting my position. 

    Your position is strictly defense w/ very little emphisis on offense. If that were true than every team should just put out there best defensive players at every position. What makes a player great or a 5 tool player is that they can do evrything well not just defense. The best teams are the ones that can find the best combination of both.

     

    By the way Drew has proven to be better than league avg MLB SS when healthy. Might explain why he had a lot of interest this offseason.

    Where's the proof? Fldg%?

    The fact then when healthy his 6 seasons @ AZ he was a +12 WAR player not bad for a SS. The fact that he played very well for A's 2nd half last season as he finally recovered from horrific ankle injury. This notion that just because you have a pin in your foot your going to be a terrible defender? many players in all sports play w/ similar from past injuries, otherwise probably wouldn't have any players in NFL

    He's bottom 3rd at best on UZR.

    You know my feelings on defensive metrics, very judgemental. Someone sits in stands and determines if another would have made that play. Already talked about JJ Hardy and his great defensive play against RS on Sun as perfect example. He's the metrics guru?

    He's only got votes on the Fielding Bible 2 times in his career: once he finished 17th and the other 12th.

    and Jeter has won Gold Glove how many times. What does this prove?

    Now, he has a pin in his foot. He is not top 15.

    I know just because you have a pin in your foot might as well retire. You might be surprised if you knew how many athletes are playing w/ similar from previous injuries thru HS/College/minors. My son just finished his college football career and played 4 yrs w/ metal plate in his forearm from HS injury. Amazing what doctors can do these days? Wonder if you would think if Iggy had to get a pin in his foot would he suddenly become a terrible defensive player because of it?




     
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