A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I think we'd really have to believe we have an excellent shot at a ring to go over the limit this year. I'm assuming we will want to go over the cap in coming years, so going over this year would cause greater penalties if we go over again anytime soon.

     



    moon, I have doubts that the Red Sox will want to go over the cap in 2014 or any year after that, under the new rules that come into effect next year.

     

    There will be a new penalty in effect for 2014 for teams going over the cap, which increases to 189 million for 2014.

    The name of the new penalty is the 'revenue sharing disqualification program'.  I don't know exactly how it's calculated, but in the stories about the Yankees getting under the cap by 2014, it was estimated that this penalty would be about 10 million for them.

    So if the payroll for tax purposes for 2014 is 189 million or less, no penalties of any kind.  But if you bump that by 5 million, it looks like that extra 5 million will actually cost you more than 15 million.

    With that kind of threshold disaster, it would appear that any team who's willing to go over the cap and pay the penalties will be willing to go way over it, like the Dodgers.  It's crazy money going over the cap starting next year.

     




    Heres a good read on the tx threshold and the penalties

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-effects-of-the-luxury-tax/

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    sounds like fans in LA & the Bronx should start saving up for $25 beers and $15 hot dogs next year.....

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I see Callahan and Buttrey on the Lowell roster.

     



    That's because they were not good enough to make the Greenville roster. It's not a plus.

     

     



    I never said it was a plus.

     

    Boom, I seem to recall you liking the draft at the time; I'm surprised you feel this way after just 15-35 IP by these kids. It's a long season, and how these guys are doing in August and next year is much more important than their first few games in professional ball.

     




    He doesnt get the FACT that they are high school pitchers that need to build their arms up. I guess they should all be stars right out of the gate after 30IP.

     



    Some are from college.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I think we'd really have to believe we have an excellent shot at a ring to go over the limit this year. I'm assuming we will want to go over the cap in coming years, so going over this year would cause greater penalties if we go over again anytime soon.

     



    moon, I have doubts that the Red Sox will want to go over the cap in 2014 or any year after that, under the new rules that come into effect next year.

     

    There will be a new penalty in effect for 2014 for teams going over the cap, which increases to 189 million for 2014.

    The name of the new penalty is the 'revenue sharing disqualification program'.  I don't know exactly how it's calculated, but in the stories about the Yankees getting under the cap by 2014, it was estimated that this penalty would be about 10 million for them.

    So if the payroll for tax purposes for 2014 is 189 million or less, no penalties of any kind.  But if you bump that by 5 million, it looks like that extra 5 million will actually cost you more than 15 million.

    With that kind of threshold disaster, it would appear that any team who's willing to go over the cap and pay the penalties will be willing to go way over it, like the Dodgers.  It's crazy money going over the cap starting next year.

     

    If 2014 is our first year, and we go over by $5M, it looks like the tax would be 17.5%, or about $875K...not $10M. It is my understanding that the tax is just on the amount you go over.

    For the seasons 2013 through 2016, the initial rate goes down (from 20% to 17.5%), the 30% and 40% tax rates stay the same and the 42.5% rate shoots up to 50%.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I see Callahan and Buttrey on the Lowell roster.

     



    That's because they were not good enough to make the Greenville roster. It's not a plus.

     

     



    I never said it was a plus.

     

    Boom, I seem to recall you liking the draft at the time; I'm surprised you feel this way after just 15-35 IP by these kids. It's a long season, and how these guys are doing in August and next year is much more important than their first few games in professional ball.

     




    He doesnt get the FACT that they are high school pitchers that need to build their arms up. I guess they should all be stars right out of the gate after 30IP.

     

     



    Some are from college.

     

     




    I realize that but that doesnt change the fact that sometimes college pitching doesnt translate to pro ball right away. The whole point is to give it at least a full playing year to see the development, read what the scouts think, what was worked on, etc., its ridiculous to just look at a kids era, whos playing pro ball for the 1st time, and judge him. Maybe the coaches want him to work on his curve to tighten it up, or his change up to work on arm speed, and hes getting lit up a bit while doing that.

     

    Maybe his "stuff" just hasnt translated to the pro game just yet. Maybe he would make a great closer instead of a starter. We cant possibly know this until they have had, at a minimum, one full season under their belts. Lowell hasnt even started yet and because 2 high school kids arent on Greenville, thats a disappointment? Really? Maybe the Sox just placed them there because Greenville was full, or they thought Lowell was enough games for them since they have never pitched above high school.

    Its just amazing to me that these things arent even considered and they're being judged after a month into their pro careers.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I see Callahan and Buttrey on the Lowell roster.

     



    That's because they were not good enough to make the Greenville roster. It's not a plus.

     

     



    I never said it was a plus.

     

    Boom, I seem to recall you liking the draft at the time; I'm surprised you feel this way after just 15-35 IP by these kids. It's a long season, and how these guys are doing in August and next year is much more important than their first few games in professional ball.

     




    He doesnt get the FACT that they are high school pitchers that need to build their arms up. I guess they should all be stars right out of the gate after 30IP.

     

     



    Some are from college.

     

     




    I realize that but that doesnt change the fact that sometimes college pitching doesnt translate to pro ball right away. The whole point is to give it at least a full playing year to see the development, read what the scouts think, what was worked on, etc., its ridiculous to just look at a kids era, whos playing pro ball for the 1st time, and judge him. Maybe the coaches want him to work on his curve to tighten it up, or his change up to work on arm speed, and hes getting lit up a bit while doing that.

     

    Maybe his "stuff" just hasnt translated to the pro game just yet. Maybe he would make a great closer instead of a starter. We cant possibly know this until they have had, at a minimum, one full season under their belts. Lowell hasnt even started yet and because 2 high school kids arent on Greenville, thats a disappointment? Really? Maybe the Sox just placed them there because Greenville was full, or they thought Lowell was enough games for them since they have never pitched above high school.

    Its just amazing to me that these things arent even considered and they're being judged after a month into their pro careers.



    I agree. I hardly even look at final first year stats to make judgments, let alone 1 month of the first year.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Heres a good read on the tx threshold and the penalties

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-effects-of-the-luxury-tax/

      

    That article makes no mention of the new revenue sharing disqualification program.  Here is an article that does.  See paragraphs 2 and 3.


    http://itsaboutthemoney.net/archives/2012/11/13/explaining-the-luxury-tax-revenue-sharing-refunds-and-the-yankees/

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I see Callahan and Buttrey on the Lowell roster.

     



    That's because they were not good enough to make the Greenville roster. It's not a plus.

     

     



    I never said it was a plus.

     

    Boom, I seem to recall you liking the draft at the time; I'm surprised you feel this way after just 15-35 IP by these kids. It's a long season, and how these guys are doing in August and next year is much more important than their first few games in professional ball.

     




    He doesnt get the FACT that they are high school pitchers that need to build their arms up. I guess they should all be stars right out of the gate after 30IP.

     

     



    Some are from college.

     

     




    I realize that but that doesnt change the fact that sometimes college pitching doesnt translate to pro ball right away. The whole point is to give it at least a full playing year to see the development, read what the scouts think, what was worked on, etc., its ridiculous to just look at a kids era, whos playing pro ball for the 1st time, and judge him. Maybe the coaches want him to work on his curve to tighten it up, or his change up to work on arm speed, and hes getting lit up a bit while doing that.

     

    Maybe his "stuff" just hasnt translated to the pro game just yet. Maybe he would make a great closer instead of a starter. We cant possibly know this until they have had, at a minimum, one full season under their belts. Lowell hasnt even started yet and because 2 high school kids arent on Greenville, thats a disappointment? Really? Maybe the Sox just placed them there because Greenville was full, or they thought Lowell was enough games for them since they have never pitched above high school.

    Its just amazing to me that these things arent even considered and they're being judged after a month into their pro careers.

     



    I agree. I hardly even look at final first year stats to make judgments, let alone 1 month of the first year.

     

     




    They didnt take any top notch college pitchers last year and seemed to concentrate on the better HS ones to spend most of their money on, along with a SS because they werent sure about either Iggy or Bogy at SS. Guys like Haley, Maddox, Augliera, and Kraus got very modest signing bonuses. Johnson, who most say will be an innings eater BOTR guy and Light, whos stuff appears better suited for the pen, got the bigger bonuses. Buttrey got almost as much as 1st round pick Johnson and more than 1st round sandwich pick Light, and he was a 4th round pick. That tells me they were concentrating on better HS talent than college guys last year.

     

    So I wouldnt expect a TOTR starter to emerge from the college guys from 2012 draft, but more a couple decent Middle to BOTR guys and solid BP arms and maybe even a good closer. Some think Maddox would make an excellent closer. But you never know. Its just too early to tell right now.

    You have to also take into consideration the Sox approach to the draft when coming to your conclusions. They got Barnes, Owens and kukuk in 2011, already had Ranaudo, Hernandez and Workman from 2010. They needed some younger arms to make sure the system was filled in the lower levels since a lot of the names from the perevious 2-3 years were in the upper levels now. Add in the trade in August, and from High-A to AAA is filled with quality pitching prospects.

    If you look at the whole system, its really pretty even throughout. At least 2-3 good pitching prospects at each level. Some will work out, some wont, and some who we might not notice now could start to shine in another year or 2.

    Theres so much to consider when it comes to pitching prospects and how they approach each draft. Thats why I get a little aggravated when someone just looks at numbers after 1 month and decides that the draft was a bust. Then start to get snarky with me because Im making a lot of sense.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Heres a good read on the tx threshold and the penalties

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-effects-of-the-luxury-tax/

      

    That article makes no mention of the new revenue sharing disqualification program.  Here is an article that does.  See paragraphs 2 and 3.


    http://itsaboutthemoney.net/archives/2012/11/13/explaining-the-luxury-tax-revenue-sharing-refunds-and-the-yankees/




    I thought it did Hfx... 1st offense is 17.5% 2nd is 30% 3rd is 40% and 4th is 50%. with the limit going to 189M in 2014-2016

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    They didnt take any top notch college pitchers last year and seemed to concentrate on the better HS ones to spend most of their money on, along with a SS because they werent sure about either Iggy or Bogy at SS. Guys like Haley, Maddox, Augliera, and Kraus got very modest signing bonuses. Johnson, who most say will be an innings eater BOTR guy and Light, whos stuff appears better suited for the pen, got the bigger bonuses. Buttrey got almost as much as 1st round pick Johnson and more than 1st round sandwich pick Light, and he was a 4th round pick. That tells me they were concentrating on better HS talent than college guys last year.

     

    So I wouldnt expect a TOTR starter to emerge from the college guys from 2012 draft, but more a couple decent Middle to BOTR guys and solid BP arms and maybe even a good closer. Some think Maddox would make an excellent closer. But you never know. Its just too early to tell right now.

    You have to also take into consideration the Sox approach to the draft when coming to your conclusions. They got Barnes, Owens and kukuk in 2011, already had Ranaudo, Hernandez and Workman from 2010. They needed some younger arms to make sure the system was filled in the lower levels since a lot of the names from the perevious 2-3 years were in the upperlevels now. Add in the trade in August, and from High-A to AAA is filled with quality pitching prospects.

    If you look at the whole system, its really pretty even throughout. At least 2-3 good pitching prospects at each level. Some will work out, some wont, and some who we might not notice now could start to shine in another year or 2.

    Theres so much to consider when it comes to pitching prospects and how they approach each draft. Thats why I get a littled aggrivated when someone just looks at numbers after 1 month and decides that the draft was a bust. Then start to get snarky with me because Im making a lot of sense.

    Nice analysis.

    We did draft several college pitchers, including 3 of the first 4 pitchers and 6 of the top 8.

    The only 2 high school pitcher's chosen were Callahan & Buttrey. Those are the two guys boom says were not good enough for Greenvill's full season.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    They didnt take any top notch college pitchers last year and seemed to concentrate on the better HS ones to spend most of their money on, along with a SS because they werent sure about either Iggy or Bogy at SS. Guys like Haley, Maddox, Augliera, and Kraus got very modest signing bonuses. Johnson, who most say will be an innings eater BOTR guy and Light, whos stuff appears better suited for the pen, got the bigger bonuses. Buttrey got almost as much as 1st round pick Johnson and more than 1st round sandwich pick Light, and he was a 4th round pick. That tells me they were concentrating on better HS talent than college guys last year.

     

    So I wouldnt expect a TOTR starter to emerge from the college guys from 2012 draft, but more a couple decent Middle to BOTR guys and solid BP arms and maybe even a good closer. Some think Maddox would make an excellent closer. But you never know. Its just too early to tell right now.

    You have to also take into consideration the Sox approach to the draft when coming to your conclusions. They got Barnes, Owens and kukuk in 2011, already had Ranaudo, Hernandez and Workman from 2010. They needed some younger arms to make sure the system was filled in the lower levels since a lot of the names from the perevious 2-3 years were in the upperlevels now. Add in the trade in August, and from High-A to AAA is filled with quality pitching prospects.

    If you look at the whole system, its really pretty even throughout. At least 2-3 good pitching prospects at each level. Some will work out, some wont, and some who we might not notice now could start to shine in another year or 2.

    Theres so much to consider when it comes to pitching prospects and how they approach each draft. Thats why I get a littled aggrivated when someone just looks at numbers after 1 month and decides that the draft was a bust. Then start to get snarky with me because Im making a lot of sense.

    Nice analysis.

    We did draft several college pitchers, including 3 of the first 4 pitchers and 6 of the top 8.

    The only 2 high school pitcher's chosen were Callahan & Buttrey. Those are the two guys boom says were not good enough for Greenvill's full season.

     

    Thanks Moon ;)

    Yes we did take 6 college guys within the 1st 10 rounds. None were on the level of a Barnes or Ranaudo though, coming out of the draft. I think that was on purpose so they could give more money to Buttrey and Callahan. More for Buttrey because of his signability issues and being more projectable than Callahan, who was a little easier to coax out of going to SC than Buttrey was at Arkansas. Buttrey is a 6'6 230 pound beast of a pitcher with all sorts of raw talent, hitting the high 90's with his FB.

    The Sox thought they were good enough to drop almost 2M between the 2 HS kids. Greenville is filled, so Buttrey and Callahan are at an age appripriate level along with the right workload for a 18-20 yr old.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    They didnt take any top notch college pitchers last year and seemed to concentrate on the better HS ones to spend most of their money on, along with a SS because they werent sure about either Iggy or Bogy at SS. Guys like Haley, Maddox, Augliera, and Kraus got very modest signing bonuses. Johnson, who most say will be an innings eater BOTR guy and Light, whos stuff appears better suited for the pen, got the bigger bonuses. Buttrey got almost as much as 1st round pick Johnson and more than 1st round sandwich pick Light, and he was a 4th round pick. That tells me they were concentrating on better HS talent than college guys last year.

     

    So I wouldnt expect a TOTR starter to emerge from the college guys from 2012 draft, but more a couple decent Middle to BOTR guys and solid BP arms and maybe even a good closer. Some think Maddox would make an excellent closer. But you never know. Its just too early to tell right now.

    You have to also take into consideration the Sox approach to the draft when coming to your conclusions. They got Barnes, Owens and kukuk in 2011, already had Ranaudo, Hernandez and Workman from 2010. They needed some younger arms to make sure the system was filled in the lower levels since a lot of the names from the perevious 2-3 years were in the upperlevels now. Add in the trade in August, and from High-A to AAA is filled with quality pitching prospects.

    If you look at the whole system, its really pretty even throughout. At least 2-3 good pitching prospects at each level. Some will work out, some wont, and some who we might not notice now could start to shine in another year or 2.

    Theres so much to consider when it comes to pitching prospects and how they approach each draft. Thats why I get a littled aggrivated when someone just looks at numbers after 1 month and decides that the draft was a bust. Then start to get snarky with me because Im making a lot of sense.

    Nice analysis.

    We did draft several college pitchers, including 3 of the first 4 pitchers and 6 of the top 8.

    The only 2 high school pitcher's chosen were Callahan & Buttrey. Those are the two guys boom says were not good enough for Greenvill's full season.

     

    Thanks Moon ;)

    Yes we did take 6 college guys within the 1st 10 rounds. None were on the level of a Barnes or Ranaudo though coming out of the draft. I think that was on purpose so they could give more money to Buttrey and Callahan. More for Buttrey because of his signability issues and being more projectable than Callahan, who was a little easier to coax out of going to SC than Buttrey was at Arkansas. Buttrey is a 6'6 230 pound beast of a pitcher with all sorts of raw talent, hitting the high 90's with his FB.

    The Sox thought they were good enough to drop almost 2M between the 2 HS kids. Greenville is filled, so Buttrey and Callahan are at an age appripriate level along with the right workload for a 18-20 yr old.



    I loved last year's draft, and nothing has made me change my mind, so far.

     
  13. This post has been removed.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    .

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    sorry, having trouble with the add your post button.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    They didnt take any top notch college pitchers last year and seemed to concentrate on the better HS ones to spend most of their money on, along with a SS because they werent sure about either Iggy or Bogy at SS. Guys like Haley, Maddox, Augliera, and Kraus got very modest signing bonuses. Johnson, who most say will be an innings eater BOTR guy and Light, whos stuff appears better suited for the pen, got the bigger bonuses. Buttrey got almost as much as 1st round pick Johnson and more than 1st round sandwich pick Light, and he was a 4th round pick. That tells me they were concentrating on better HS talent than college guys last year.

     

    So I wouldnt expect a TOTR starter to emerge from the college guys from 2012 draft, but more a couple decent Middle to BOTR guys and solid BP arms and maybe even a good closer. Some think Maddox would make an excellent closer. But you never know. Its just too early to tell right now.

    You have to also take into consideration the Sox approach to the draft when coming to your conclusions. They got Barnes, Owens and kukuk in 2011, already had Ranaudo, Hernandez and Workman from 2010. They needed some younger arms to make sure the system was filled in the lower levels since a lot of the names from the perevious 2-3 years were in the upperlevels now. Add in the trade in August, and from High-A to AAA is filled with quality pitching prospects.

    If you look at the whole system, its really pretty even throughout. At least 2-3 good pitching prospects at each level. Some will work out, some wont, and some who we might not notice now could start to shine in another year or 2.

    Theres so much to consider when it comes to pitching prospects and how they approach each draft. Thats why I get a littled aggrivated when someone just looks at numbers after 1 month and decides that the draft was a bust. Then start to get snarky with me because Im making a lot of sense.

    Nice analysis.

    We did draft several college pitchers, including 3 of the first 4 pitchers and 6 of the top 8.

    The only 2 high school pitcher's chosen were Callahan & Buttrey. Those are the two guys boom says were not good enough for Greenvill's full season.

     

    Thanks Moon ;)

    Yes we did take 6 college guys within the 1st 10 rounds. None were on the level of a Barnes or Ranaudo though coming out of the draft. I think that was on purpose so they could give more money to Buttrey and Callahan. More for Buttrey because of his signability issues and being more projectable than Callahan, who was a little easier to coax out of going to SC than Buttrey was at Arkansas. Buttrey is a 6'6 230 pound beast of a pitcher with all sorts of raw talent, hitting the high 90's with his FB.

    The Sox thought they were good enough to drop almost 2M between the 2 HS kids. Greenville is filled, so Buttrey and Callahan are at an age appripriate level along with the right workload for a 18-20 yr old.

     



    I loved last year's draft, and nothing has made me change my mind, so far.

     




    I though we got some very promising players. Im confident that there will be a few that work out. All together i thought it was a solid draft.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Heres a good read on the tx threshold and the penalties

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-effects-of-the-luxury-tax/

      

    That article makes no mention of the new revenue sharing disqualification program.  Here is an article that does.  See paragraphs 2 and 3.


    http://itsaboutthemoney.net/archives/2012/11/13/explaining-the-luxury-tax-revenue-sharing-refunds-and-the-yankees/

    I thought it did Hfx... 1st offense is 17.5% 2nd is 30% 3rd is 40% and 4th is 50%. with the limit going to 189M in 2014-2016

    No, what I'm referring to is the new revenue sharing system, which has penalties that are separate from the luxury tax.  You really have to read the fine print on this.  Here is a piece by Joel Sherman where he estimates the potential cost of the revenue sharing penalty to the Yankees at 10 million for 2014 alone, and as much as 40 million total for 2014-2016.  This is why we had the stories about the Yankees striving to get their payroll down to 189 million for 2014.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yankees/yankees_aim_to_trim_payroll_by_to_pO1UdLoQkMgED2c6NKXCRM

      

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Heres a good read on the tx threshold and the penalties

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-effects-of-the-luxury-tax/

      

    That article makes no mention of the new revenue sharing disqualification program.  Here is an article that does.  See paragraphs 2 and 3.


    http://itsaboutthemoney.net/archives/2012/11/13/explaining-the-luxury-tax-revenue-sharing-refunds-and-the-yankees/

     




    I thought it did Hfx... 1st offense is 17.5% 2nd is 30% 3rd is 40% and 4th is 50%. with the limit going to 189M in 2014-2016

     



    No, what I'm referring to is the new revenue sharing system, which has penalties that are separate from the luxury tax.  You really have to read the fine print on this.  Here is a piece by Joel Sherman where he estimates the potential cost of the revenue sharing penalty to the Yankees at 10 million for 2014 alone, and as much as 40 million total for 2014-2016.  This is why we had the stories about the Yankees striving to get their payroll down to 189 million for 2014.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yankees/yankees_aim_to_trim_payroll_by_to_pO1UdLoQkMgED2c6NKXCRM

      

     




    Oooooh. my apologies. I misunderstood you.

    Yes, there will be some stiff penalties along with rewards for staying under the threshold. Good article.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Didn't see the game last night so just asking; thought I saw Ciriaco blowing another defensive play on ESPN???  Don't mean to keep dumping on him, loved him last summer, but I just don't have confidence in him as a true utility guy.  I think he's comfortable at SS but not really anywhere else.  I think we could upgrade this position.

    Giants are down a starter after last night.  Any chance of doing anything with them with the future in mind?  Probably not--they always seem to have pitching in the pipeline.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to Critter23's comment:

     

    Didn't see the game last night so just asking; thought I saw Ciriaco blowing another defensive play on ESPN???  Don't mean to keep dumping on him, loved him last summer, but I just don't have confidence in him as a true utility guy.  I think he's comfortable at SS but not really anywhere else.  I think we could upgrade this position.

    Giants are down a starter after last night.  Any chance of doing anything with them with the future in mind?  Probably not--they always seem to have pitching in the pipeline.

     



    hey crit,


    We could DFA Ciriaco (my choice) put Brentz on the 40 man incase another OF body is needed and let Brock Holt be our UI. Hes more than capable playing 2b ss and 3b. Hes not doing great so far this year, but he has decent numbers throughout his MiL carrer.

     

    Ciriaco is a waste of a roster spot IMO.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to Critter23's comment:

    Didn't see the game last night so just asking; thought I saw Ciriaco blowing another defensive play on ESPN???  Don't mean to keep dumping on him, loved him last summer, but I just don't have confidence in him as a true utility guy.  I think he's comfortable at SS but not really anywhere else.  I think we could upgrade this position.

    Giants are down a starter after last night.  Any chance of doing anything with them with the future in mind?  Probably not--they always seem to have pitching in the pipeline.




    The Sox aren't exactly flush with SP pitching.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

    In response to Critter23's comment:

     

    Didn't see the game last night so just asking; thought I saw Ciriaco blowing another defensive play on ESPN???  Don't mean to keep dumping on him, loved him last summer, but I just don't have confidence in him as a true utility guy.  I think he's comfortable at SS but not really anywhere else.  I think we could upgrade this position.

    Giants are down a starter after last night.  Any chance of doing anything with them with the future in mind?  Probably not--they always seem to have pitching in the pipeline.

     




    The Sox aren't exactly flush with SP pitching.

     



    I was thinking the same thing. We need a SP more than the Giants.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Ciriaco is a waste of a roster spot IMO.

    His career .299 minor league OBP should have been the red flag nobody wanted to see.

    His fielding and versatility was supposed to be his strong point. I haven't seen that yet.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I see Callahan and Buttrey on the Lowell roster.

     



    That's because they were not good enough to make the Greenville roster. It's not a plus.

     

     



    I never said it was a plus.

     

    Boom, I seem to recall you liking the draft at the time; I'm surprised you feel this way after just 15-35 IP by these kids. It's a long season, and how these guys are doing in August and next year is much more important than their first few games in professional ball.

     




    He doesnt get the FACT that they are high school pitchers that need to build their arms up. I guess they should all be stars right out of the gate after 30IP.

     



    Why bother to discuss the OBVIOUS. Their average ERA of all picks in the first 6 rounds is somewhere close to 6.00 and YOU GUYS SAY WHERE'S THE PROBLEM. AND THEIR HITTERS AREN'T ANY BETTER.

    The draft so far looks bad. If you want to argue that point feel free. I'm the one who shouldn't have to even discuss this. I made a point. You guys disagreed. The facts are clear as a freaking bell. And you guys are still tap dancing around the facts.

    Sorry but that is the truth. 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    They didnt take any top notch college pitchers last year and seemed to concentrate on the better HS ones to spend most of their money on, along with a SS because they werent sure about either Iggy or Bogy at SS. Guys like Haley, Maddox, Augliera, and Kraus got very modest signing bonuses. Johnson, who most say will be an innings eater BOTR guy and Light, whos stuff appears better suited for the pen, got the bigger bonuses. Buttrey got almost as much as 1st round pick Johnson and more than 1st round sandwich pick Light, and he was a 4th round pick. That tells me they were concentrating on better HS talent than college guys last year.

     

    So I wouldnt expect a TOTR starter to emerge from the college guys from 2012 draft, but more a couple decent Middle to BOTR guys and solid BP arms and maybe even a good closer. Some think Maddox would make an excellent closer. But you never know. Its just too early to tell right now.

    You have to also take into consideration the Sox approach to the draft when coming to your conclusions. They got Barnes, Owens and kukuk in 2011, already had Ranaudo, Hernandez and Workman from 2010. They needed some younger arms to make sure the system was filled in the lower levels since a lot of the names from the perevious 2-3 years were in the upperlevels now. Add in the trade in August, and from High-A to AAA is filled with quality pitching prospects.

    If you look at the whole system, its really pretty even throughout. At least 2-3 good pitching prospects at each level. Some will work out, some wont, and some who we might not notice now could start to shine in another year or 2.

    Theres so much to consider when it comes to pitching prospects and how they approach each draft. Thats why I get a littled aggrivated when someone just looks at numbers after 1 month and decides that the draft was a bust. Then start to get snarky with me because Im making a lot of sense.

    Nice analysis.

    We did draft several college pitchers, including 3 of the first 4 pitchers and 6 of the top 8.

    The only 2 high school pitcher's chosen were Callahan & Buttrey. Those are the two guys boom says were not good enough for Greenvill's full season.

     

    Thanks Moon ;)

    Yes we did take 6 college guys within the 1st 10 rounds. None were on the level of a Barnes or Ranaudo though coming out of the draft. I think that was on purpose so they could give more money to Buttrey and Callahan. More for Buttrey because of his signability issues and being more projectable than Callahan, who was a little easier to coax out of going to SC than Buttrey was at Arkansas. Buttrey is a 6'6 230 pound beast of a pitcher with all sorts of raw talent, hitting the high 90's with his FB.

    The Sox thought they were good enough to drop almost 2M between the 2 HS kids. Greenville is filled, so Buttrey and Callahan are at an age appripriate level along with the right workload for a 18-20 yr old.

     



    I loved last year's draft, and nothing has made me change my mind, so far.

     



    All I've to say on this one is WOW. On what do you guys base this opinion? Give me any data at all beyond a mediocre performance from Marrerro which gives you any indication this was a good draft. It was universally regarded as the worst draft class in many years and our picks so far have been almost universlly bad. Kraus has done well but he is 22 years old in Greenville. They are taking things slow with Buttrey and Calahan ( who was extremely young if I remember correctly) so let's hope like crazy they make it because there is zero indication that anyone else will be a significant mlb level player. An abberation like Lowrie or Middlebrooks could happen but those are relatively rare. Why are we on different sides of this one Moon? The data is clear.

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share