A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I agree with boom, Iggy will either be our starting SS next year or traded.




    I agree with that too. Just saying its not a must that we get rid of him becausehis 4yr deal is up. He still has pre arb, arb, then hes a FA. He could be a very valuable piece with that much control.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I agree with boom, Iggy will either be our starting SS next year or traded.

     




    I agree with that too. Just saying its not a must that we get rid of him becausehis 4yr deal is up. He still has pre arb, arb, then hes a FA. He could be a very valuable piece with that much control.

     



    That's what I said when we went with Aviles last year. Play Iggy or trade him. We should have traded him then. I'm not sure his stock has gone up any since then. A year less team control. Now, the attitude issue to ponder.

    I don't see Iggy ever hitting well enough to make Ben confident enough to hand him the job, so I say trade him. Maybe a package deal of 2 or 3 for one would help solve our roster limit issues as well. Trade Iggy, Aceves, and Morales for a better pitcher under team control for 3+ years. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I agree with boom, Iggy will either be our starting SS next year or traded.

     




    I agree with that too. Just saying its not a must that we get rid of him becausehis 4yr deal is up. He still has pre arb, arb, then hes a FA. He could be a very valuable piece with that much control.

     

     



    That's what I said when we went with Aviles last year. Play Iggy or trade him. We should have traded him then. I'm not sure his stock has gone up any since then. A year less team control. Now, the attitude issue to ponder.

     

    I don't see Iggy ever hitting well enough to make Ben confident enough to hand him the job, so I say trade him. Maybe a package deal of 2 or 3 for one would help solve our roster limit issues as well. Trade Iggy, Aceves, and Morales for a better pitcher under team control for 3+ years. 




    I think if a team plans on using him in MLB they wont care about the little attitude issues since it was about playing in MLB. Hes basically been the same player so his value really hasnt gone either way IMO. Hes still under control for 6 years, so realistically he has as many years as any other prospect starts with. 2014-2016 pre arb. League minimum. 2017-2019 arb eligible. 6 years is all any prospect gets.

    He will be a very valuable piece to any team that values total defense at SS and not worried about waiting for the bat to get better, even if its a .230-240BA and a .300 OBP.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I agree with boom, Iggy will either be our starting SS next year or traded.

     




    I agree with that too. Just saying its not a must that we get rid of him becausehis 4yr deal is up. He still has pre arb, arb, then hes a FA. He could be a very valuable piece with that much control.

     

     



    That's what I said when we went with Aviles last year. Play Iggy or trade him. We should have traded him then. I'm not sure his stock has gone up any since then. A year less team control. Now, the attitude issue to ponder.

     

    I don't see Iggy ever hitting well enough to make Ben confident enough to hand him the job, so I say trade him. Maybe a package deal of 2 or 3 for one would help solve our roster limit issues as well. Trade Iggy, Aceves, and Morales for a better pitcher under team control for 3+ years. 

     




    I think if a team plans on using him in MLB they wont care about the little attitude issues since it was about playing in MLB. Hes basically been the same player so his value really hasnt gone either way IMO. Hes still under control for 6 years, so realistically he has as many years as any other prospect starts with. 2014-2016 pre arb. League minimum. 2017-2019 arb eligible. 6 years is all any prospect gets.

     

    He will be a very valuable piece to any team that values total defense at SS and not worried about waiting for the bat to get better, even if its a .230-240BA and a .300 OBP.



    Exactly. Some other team must value him more than Ben. He should be traded, since Ben is not going to start him. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I agree with boom, Iggy will either be our starting SS next year or traded.

     




    I agree with that too. Just saying its not a must that we get rid of him becausehis 4yr deal is up. He still has pre arb, arb, then hes a FA. He could be a very valuable piece with that much control.

     

     



    That's what I said when we went with Aviles last year. Play Iggy or trade him. We should have traded him then. I'm not sure his stock has gone up any since then. A year less team control. Now, the attitude issue to ponder.

     

    I don't see Iggy ever hitting well enough to make Ben confident enough to hand him the job, so I say trade him. Maybe a package deal of 2 or 3 for one would help solve our roster limit issues as well. Trade Iggy, Aceves, and Morales for a better pitcher under team control for 3+ years. 

     




    I think if a team plans on using him in MLB they wont care about the little attitude issues since it was about playing in MLB. Hes basically been the same player so his value really hasnt gone either way IMO. Hes still under control for 6 years, so realistically he has as many years as any other prospect starts with. 2014-2016 pre arb. League minimum. 2017-2019 arb eligible. 6 years is all any prospect gets.

     

    He will be a very valuable piece to any team that values total defense at SS and not worried about waiting for the bat to get better, even if its a .230-240BA and a .300 OBP.

     



    Exactly. Some other team must value him more than Ben. He should be traded, since Ben is not going to start him. 

     




    Well, with BC playing him at 3b and supposed to give him some play at 2b too, it will show other teams that hes more versitle than just being a SS. He can make it to MLB quicker that way also.

    I agree that if they dont see him as their SS then they need to package him up and ship him out for something they feel they can use.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I agree with boom, Iggy will either be our starting SS next year or traded.

     




    I agree with that too. Just saying its not a must that we get rid of him becausehis 4yr deal is up. He still has pre arb, arb, then hes a FA. He could be a very valuable piece with that much control.

     



    I heard it on the most recent soxprospects podcast if I remember correctly. I'd rather not cite the source because I may do it incorrectly but I believe it was from one of their most credible staffers in the last podcast. Iglesias has to be in mlb next year or we lose him. I heard it just last night.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    If Iglesias has to be in mlb next year, and they want to develop his value before trading him, bringing him up now while Ciriaco is not producing makes some sense. A lot of time a player might be roughly equivalent and they just go with the guy who 1) has potential added value or 2) costs them less. I think option 1 applies in this instance.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I agree with boom, Iggy will either be our starting SS next year or traded.

     




    I agree with that too. Just saying its not a must that we get rid of him becausehis 4yr deal is up. He still has pre arb, arb, then hes a FA. He could be a very valuable piece with that much control.

     

     



    I heard it on the most recent soxprospects podcast if I remember correctly. I'd rather not cite the source because I may do it incorrectly but I believe it was from one of their most credible staffers in the last podcast. Iglesias has to be in mlb next year or we lose him. I heard it just last night.

     

     




    Yes it is true. I just looked it up and he does have to be on the 25-man next year. I thought it was the 40-man, but obviously I was wrong about that.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Iglesias is still very young. Not defending a bad attitude by any player , but it is at least understandable due to his youth and disappointment at being sent down when he was playing so well.  He did not have a reputation as a problem guy.  Not time to give up on him. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    Iglesias is still very young. Not defending a bad attitude by any player , but it is at least understandable due to his youth and disappointment at being sent down when he was playing so well.  He did not have a reputation as a problem guy.  Not time to give up on him. 




    He had no business getting mad when he already knew the job was Drews. I understand being overall frustrated, but the kid cant hit. a .220BA with a sub 300 OBP with minimal power in AAA is going to be worse in MLB.

    Theyre playing him at 3b and 2b now and I imagine that will at least land him a spot as a UI this year for either a trade or to at least prove he can hit MLB pitching. Ciriaco needs to go.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    Iglesias is still very young. Not defending a bad attitude by any player , but it is at least understandable due to his youth and disappointment at being sent down when he was playing so well.  He did not have a reputation as a problem guy.  Not time to give up on him. 

     




    He had no business getting mad when he already knew the job was Drews. I understand being overall frustrated, but the kid cant hit. a .220BA with a sub 300 OBP with minimal power in AAA is going to be worse in MLB.

     

    Theyre playing him at 3b and 2b now and I imagine that will at least land him a spot as a UI this year for either a trade or to at least prove he can hit MLB pitching. Ciriaco needs to go.



    1) The SS position should not be primarily about hitting.

    2) He has a .245 AAA BA in over 900 PAs not .220.

    3) While it is not common for players to do better in MLB than the minors, we don't have to look any further than Ciriaco:

        AAA   .265/.281 (1080 PAs)

    minors  .272/.299 (3502 PAs)

        MLB   .286/.315 (459 PAs)

       

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    Iglesias is still very young. Not defending a bad attitude by any player , but it is at least understandable due to his youth and disappointment at being sent down when he was playing so well.  He did not have a reputation as a problem guy.  Not time to give up on him. 

     




    He had no business getting mad when he already knew the job was Drews. I understand being overall frustrated, but the kid cant hit. a .220BA with a sub 300 OBP with minimal power in AAA is going to be worse in MLB.

     

    Theyre playing him at 3b and 2b now and I imagine that will at least land him a spot as a UI this year for either a trade or to at least prove he can hit MLB pitching. Ciriaco needs to go.

     



    1) The SS position should not be primarily about hitting.

     

    2) He has a .245 AAA BA in over 900 PAs not .220.

    3) While it is not common for players to do better in MLB than the minors, we don't have to look any further than Ciriaco:

        AAA   .265/.281 (1080 PAs)

    minors  .272/.299 (3502 PAs)

        MLB   .286/.315 (459 PAs)

       

     

     




    I guess he has the rest of the year to prove guys like me wrong. I hope he does.

    Plus I was talking about his stats this year, which last time I looked a couple days ago were at .205/.262/.330 in 31 games for Pawtucket.

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    Iglesias is still very young. Not defending a bad attitude by any player , but it is at least understandable due to his youth and disappointment at being sent down when he was playing so well.  He did not have a reputation as a problem guy.  Not time to give up on him. 

     




    He had no business getting mad when he already knew the job was Drews. I understand being overall frustrated, but the kid cant hit. a .220BA with a sub 300 OBP with minimal power in AAA is going to be worse in MLB.

     

    Theyre playing him at 3b and 2b now and I imagine that will at least land him a spot as a UI this year for either a trade or to at least prove he can hit MLB pitching. Ciriaco needs to go.

     



    1) The SS position should not be primarily about hitting.

     

    2) He has a .245 AAA BA in over 900 PAs not .220.

    3) While it is not common for players to do better in MLB than the minors, we don't have to look any further than Ciriaco:

        AAA   .265/.281 (1080 PAs)

    minors  .272/.299 (3502 PAs)

        MLB   .286/.315 (459 PAs)

       

     

     




    I guess he has the rest of the year to prove guys like me wrong. I hope he does.

    Plus I was talking about his stats this year, which last time I looked a couple days ago were at .205/.262/.330 in 31 games for Pawtucket.

     



    OK, but to me, it's not about offense with the short stop. Yes, it can make a difference, but what a SS does out on the field is so much more influential than getting on base 30-40 more times over a full season.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from jidgef. Show jidgef's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Moon, you and I are now and have been on the same page as far as Iglesias is concerned. He should be our shortstop. As I've said before, this is not a knock on Drew, who has far exceeded my defensive expectations and is obviously a much better offensive player than Iggy. But the $10mil. we spent on Drew could have been used elsewhere and as Iggy showed early this year, if given a chance he will eventually learn to hit somewhat. With his defense he doesn't need to hit any more than .230 with a .300 obp. He may get on base 30-40 times less than a Drew but he will prevent at least that many hits. He is also a wizard at turning the double-play which is not Drew's best quality.

    Boom, every so often you get a notion and won't let it go and insist on beating it to death. Such is your notion regarding last year's draft. There are very few ballparks in America, at any level, that inflate offensive stats as much as our Greenville park. So if the park inflates offensive stats, conversely it will deflate pitching stats. Those who are arguing with you are pointing at small sample sizes and relative youth and are reccommending a wait and see posture. Yet you want to use a one month sample to label the draft the "worst in history"? A little hyperbole is good for any story, but you are this board's champion of the minor leagues, we need you to get a grip and come in off the ledge!

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Moon, you and I are now and have been on the same page as far as Iglesias is concerned. He should be our shortstop. As I've said before, this is not a knock on Drew, who has far exceeded my defensive expectations and is obviously a much better offensive player than Iggy. But the $10mil. we spent on Drew could have been used elsewhere and as Iggy showed early this year, if given a chance he will eventually learn to hit somewhat. With his defense he doesn't need to hit any more than .230 with a .300 obp. He may get on base 30-40 times less than a Drew but he will prevent at least that many hits. He is also a wizard at turning the double-play which is not Drew's best quality.

    I was surprised by the defense of Aviles last year, but he still was no match for Iggy's defense. Mikes good offensive start dashed any hope of Ben changing his philosophy at the SS position.

    This year, Drew has done better in the field than I expected, but nothing to get all gah gah over as some here seem to want to do.

    I still think several teams value Iggy as their SS now or near future. I think they value him more than Ben. We have other SSs in our system: Bogaerts, Marrero, Vincio, Lin... It just seems like the cards are set up for a trade (whether we like it or not).

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Crit...You know I'm a Proud Pollyanna but Greenville is not a hitter's park and look at our hitters on that team. They may be even worse! I think we have a great farm but the best prospects ain't in Greenville! I'm not on a ledge. I'm just stating the obvious. Again, just look at the data. These are mainly college guys Crit. They should be mopping the floor in Greenville.

    I thought at first that their approach last year of taking what appeared to be safe college arms was good but it has not worked out so far. They should go back to rolling the dice with the high upside guys. Prospects like Frazier, Moran, Shipley and Stewart this year. They will miss completely on most of them but a few will rise to the top and we will have something.

    They do have the international signing of Montas which might bear fruit. Callahan is very young and might pan out as well as Buttrey but neither is playing yet this year. Mookie Betts has done very well lately. It's just that out of the top 6 picks who are actually playing so far, all of them have looked real bad. Johnson hasn't been off the charts bad but still not good for a 1st round college pitcher in Greenville. It is a small sample size and we shouldn't give up but so far it's just ugly Crit. And we might as well admit it. And change our approach this year.

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    I agree Moon on Iglesias. He is a probably traded by next winter. It's such a shame. I loved watching him play defense. I hope he finds some offense when he comes up because I have little doubt he will be with the big club soon. Within the next month I think.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Thank God mlb.com has optional broadcast coverage because if I have to listen to Hawk Harrelson one more inning I'm going to projectile vomit. He is the worst announcer I've ever heard. Absolutely disgusting. Boring. A homer to the extreme. I'd rather watch shuffleboard.

     
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    My rally puppies get top billing tonight. They came through again! Carmen and Juni. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

    Crit...You know I'm a Proud Pollyanna but Greenville is not a hitter's park and look at our hitters on that team. They may be even worse! I think we have a great farm but the best prospects ain't in Greenville! I'm not on a ledge. I'm just stating the obvious. Again, just look at the data. These are mainly college guys Crit. They should be mopping the floor in Greenville.

    The "data" is too small to even see.

    I thought at first that their approach last year of taking what appeared to be safe college arms was good but it has not worked out so far. They should go back to rolling the dice with the high upside guys. Prospects like Frazier, Moran, Shipley and Stewart this year. They will miss completely on most of them but a few will rise to the top and we will have something.

    This is showing that you have made a definitive judgement based on tiny sample sizes, and are saying we should change our philosophy based on these tiny sample sizes so far.

    They do have the international signing of Montas which might bear fruit. Callahan is very young and might pan out as well as Buttrey but neither is playing yet this year. Mookie Betts has done very well lately. It's just that out of the top 6 picks who are actually playing so far, all of them have looked real bad. Johnson hasn't been off the charts bad but still not good for a 1st round college pitcher in Greenville. It is a small sample size and we shouldn't give up but so far it's just ugly Crit. And we might as well admit it. And change our approach this year.

     




    Nobody is making any changes based on 15-35 inning sample sizes out of the gait.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

    My rally puppies get top billing tonight. They came through again! Carmen and Juni. 



    I have a Yellow Lab/Shep mix named Kaleb.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

     

    My rally puppies get top billing tonight. They came through again! Carmen and Juni. 

     



    I have a Yellow Lab/Shep mix named Kaleb.

     



    Ours are Goldens Moon. They are getting pretty old but they can still rally when needed! 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

     

    Crit...You know I'm a Proud Pollyanna but Greenville is not a hitter's park and look at our hitters on that team. They may be even worse! I think we have a great farm but the best prospects ain't in Greenville! I'm not on a ledge. I'm just stating the obvious. Again, just look at the data. These are mainly college guys Crit. They should be mopping the floor in Greenville.

    The "data" is too small to even see.

    I thought at first that their approach last year of taking what appeared to be safe college arms was good but it has not worked out so far. They should go back to rolling the dice with the high upside guys. Prospects like Frazier, Moran, Shipley and Stewart this year. They will miss completely on most of them but a few will rise to the top and we will have something.

    This is showing that you have made a definitive judgement based on tiny sample sizes, and are saying we should change our philosophy based on these tiny sample sizes so far.

    They do have the international signing of Montas which might bear fruit. Callahan is very young and might pan out as well as Buttrey but neither is playing yet this year. Mookie Betts has done very well lately. It's just that out of the top 6 picks who are actually playing so far, all of them have looked real bad. Johnson hasn't been off the charts bad but still not good for a 1st round college pitcher in Greenville. It is a small sample size and we shouldn't give up but so far it's just ugly Crit. And we might as well admit it. And change our approach this year.

     

     




     

    Nobody is making any changes based on 15-35 inning sample sizes out of the gait.

     



    We are 1/4 into the season now and the entire draft class so far has had bad results. Kraus has decent results but he is 22 years old in low A and is a reliever. The sample size is significant when it's the entire draft class. We used to go safe with our picks and got guys like Abe Alvarez. We just effectively got 4-5 more Abe Alvarez type guys out of our top picks.  We don't want to go there again I'm pretty sure.

     

    The draft world has changed. The overslot signings are not going to walk in that door with regularity any more. Our drafts just are not going to be as strong as they were simply because our money advantages have been largely negated. Access to good young talent is now at a huge premium. We don't see trades being made for prospects as much any more as orgs are holding on to their guys with both fists. That is why the Dodgers trade was yet again so huge for us. Hopefully it is the foundation of our re tooling. 

    We are all Tampa Bays now. And the sooner we see that the better. I think Cherington is with the program because look at his moves. They have held on to almost all of their real prospects. We need more Buchholz level players. Guys we develop into all stars. Guys who were largely unheard of in the draft but had the tools to become great. 

     

    We need high upside guys even if 90% of them fail. It turns out that our best shots from 2012 are the high upside HS guys. I can't wait for June 6th. This year's draft should be better.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    I've been following the draft a lot more this year. Below are some guys we have been linked to with our #7 pick. I like all of them. I'd feel good about any of them. We are going to have opportunities at #7:

    Frazier:

    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=20444

    Moran:

    http://www.overthemonster.com/2013/5/13/4326640/mlb-2013-draft-colin-moran-red-sox

    Stewart:

    http://www.sbnation.com/college-football-recruiting/2013/4/16/4231782/kohl-stewart-2013-mlb-draft-texas-a-m-aggies-football-recruiting

    Shipley:

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130519&content_id=48048602&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

     

    My rally puppies get top billing tonight. They came through again! Carmen and Juni. 

     



    I have a Yellow Lab/Shep mix named Kaleb.

     

     



    Ours are Goldens Moon. They are getting pretty old but they can still rally when needed! 

     



    Mine's 14, but still thinks he's a puppy. (We haven't told him otherwise.)

     
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