A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

     

    Crit...You know I'm a Proud Pollyanna but Greenville is not a hitter's park and look at our hitters on that team. They may be even worse! I think we have a great farm but the best prospects ain't in Greenville! I'm not on a ledge. I'm just stating the obvious. Again, just look at the data. These are mainly college guys Crit. They should be mopping the floor in Greenville.

    The "data" is too small to even see.

    I thought at first that their approach last year of taking what appeared to be safe college arms was good but it has not worked out so far. They should go back to rolling the dice with the high upside guys. Prospects like Frazier, Moran, Shipley and Stewart this year. They will miss completely on most of them but a few will rise to the top and we will have something.

    This is showing that you have made a definitive judgement based on tiny sample sizes, and are saying we should change our philosophy based on these tiny sample sizes so far.

    They do have the international signing of Montas which might bear fruit. Callahan is very young and might pan out as well as Buttrey but neither is playing yet this year. Mookie Betts has done very well lately. It's just that out of the top 6 picks who are actually playing so far, all of them have looked real bad. Johnson hasn't been off the charts bad but still not good for a 1st round college pitcher in Greenville. It is a small sample size and we shouldn't give up but so far it's just ugly Crit. And we might as well admit it. And change our approach this year.

     

     




     

    Nobody is making any changes based on 15-35 inning sample sizes out of the gait.

     



    We are 1/4 into the season now and the entire draft class so far has had bad results. Kraus has decent results but he is 22 years old in low A and is a reliever. The sample size is significant when it's the entire draft class. We used to go safe with our picks and got guys like Abe Alvarez. We just effectively got 4-5 more Abe Alvarez type guys out of our top picks.  We don't want to go there again I'm pretty sure.

     

    The draft world has changed. The overslot signings are not going to walk in that door with regularity any more. Our drafts just are not going to be as strong as they were simply because our money advantages have been largely negated. Access to good young talent is now at a huge premium. We don't see trades being made for prospects as much any more as orgs are holding on to their guys with both fists. That is why the Dodgers trade was yet again so huge for us. Hopefully it is the foundation of our re tooling. 

    We are all Tampa Bays now. And the sooner we see that the better. I think Cherington is with the program because look at his moves. They have held on to almost all of their real prospects. We need more Buchholz level players. Guys we develop into all stars. Guys who were largely unheard of in the draft but had the tools to become great. 

     

    We need high upside guys even if 90% of them fail. It turns out that our best shots from 2012 are the high upside HS guys. I can't wait for June 6th. This year's draft should be better.



    A quarter season is not a significant sample size even in the bigs. These guys are just getting their feet wet. Yeah, they may end up fizzling out and never doing well, but give them some time, boom.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    Iglesias is still very young. Not defending a bad attitude by any player , but it is at least understandable due to his youth and disappointment at being sent down when he was playing so well.  He did not have a reputation as a problem guy.  Not time to give up on him. 

     




    He had no business getting mad when he already knew the job was Drews. I understand being overall frustrated, but the kid cant hit. a .220BA with a sub 300 OBP with minimal power in AAA is going to be worse in MLB.

     

    Theyre playing him at 3b and 2b now and I imagine that will at least land him a spot as a UI this year for either a trade or to at least prove he can hit MLB pitching. Ciriaco needs to go.

     



    1) The SS position should not be primarily about hitting.

     

    2) He has a .245 AAA BA in over 900 PAs not .220.

    3) While it is not common for players to do better in MLB than the minors, we don't have to look any further than Ciriaco:

        AAA   .265/.281 (1080 PAs)

    minors  .272/.299 (3502 PAs)

        MLB   .286/.315 (459 PAs)

       

     

     




    I guess he has the rest of the year to prove guys like me wrong. I hope he does.

    Plus I was talking about his stats this year, which last time I looked a couple days ago were at .205/.262/.330 in 31 games for Pawtucket.

     

     



    OK, but to me, it's not about offense with the short stop. Yes, it can make a difference, but what a SS does out on the field is so much more influential than getting on base 30-40 more times over a full season.

     

     



    I value defense as well, but with me, you have to have some offense too.
    Although Drew may not be as flashy as Iggy, Ill take him over Iggy any day of the week because hes a much better overall player. Hes got above average and steady defense along with a good bat for a SS. Ill take that over a one sided player any day. Come june or july people around here will be completely frustrated with Iggy because hes almost an automatic out. They will forget about the once in a while highlight reel catches when he has a 220BA with a 280 OBP and barely ever on base.

     

    Sorry, but you gotta hit better than he does, great defense or not. You become a national league team with him batting 9th. Will will agree to disagree on this.

    We just differ from what we personally like in a SS, thats all.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Boom, I didn't make that comment; I think it was Jid.  I have stayed out of the Greenville debate completely for two reasons: everyone here has made his points completely multiple times and even if I thought you were wrong, I don't want to debate with you right now.  I do see your point though on bringing up Iggy even if it's to play 3rd--good to showcase him for a future trade.  Hope you come to Maine this summer for the "Portland Field Trip."  Hey Jid is right about you being our #1 development promotion guy so your stance is a little out of character...

    Moon, I like your expansion of the trade with Aceves.  I like Iggy as much as anyone but as you say the stars are alligned for a trade and if we aren't going to use him, then let's do it.  I've said this before, but I've read in papers out here quotes from NL front office personnel, "The Red Sox don"t know what they've got with Iggy."  Maybe we could dance back inside with the Dodgers and give them another shot to the ribs.  The papers out here make it sound like Mattingly is going to lose his job if they don't get going.

    I've always really liked Masterson--I'd love to see him back in a RS uniform.  I know he didn't do so well last year, but I've always felt he's still a young pitcher learning his craft.  It'll be fun to see him pitch against some of his old mates.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    Iglesias is still very young. Not defending a bad attitude by any player , but it is at least understandable due to his youth and disappointment at being sent down when he was playing so well.  He did not have a reputation as a problem guy.  Not time to give up on him. 

     




    He had no business getting mad when he already knew the job was Drews. I understand being overall frustrated, but the kid cant hit. a .220BA with a sub 300 OBP with minimal power in AAA is going to be worse in MLB.

     

    Theyre playing him at 3b and 2b now and I imagine that will at least land him a spot as a UI this year for either a trade or to at least prove he can hit MLB pitching. Ciriaco needs to go.

     



    1) The SS position should not be primarily about hitting.

     

    2) He has a .245 AAA BA in over 900 PAs not .220.

    3) While it is not common for players to do better in MLB than the minors, we don't have to look any further than Ciriaco:

        AAA   .265/.281 (1080 PAs)

    minors  .272/.299 (3502 PAs)

        MLB   .286/.315 (459 PAs)

       

     

     




    I guess he has the rest of the year to prove guys like me wrong. I hope he does.

    Plus I was talking about his stats this year, which last time I looked a couple days ago were at .205/.262/.330 in 31 games for Pawtucket.

     

     



    OK, but to me, it's not about offense with the short stop. Yes, it can make a difference, but what a SS does out on the field is so much more influential than getting on base 30-40 more times over a full season.

     

     



    I value defense as well, but with me, you have to have some offense too.
    Although Drew may not be as flashy as Iggy, Ill take him over Iggy any day of the week because hes a much better overall player. Hes got above average and steady defense along with a good bat for a SS. Ill take that over a one sided player any day. Come june or july people around here will be completely frustrated with Iggy because hes almost an automatic out. They will forget about the once in a while highlight reel catches when he has a 220BA with a 280 OBP and barely ever on base.

     

    Sorry, but you gotta hit better than he does, great defense or not. You become a national league team with him batting 9th. Will will agree to disagree on this.

    We just differ from what we personally like in a SS, thats all.



    I understand your side of the argument, and I understand how it's hard for some here to believe that a great ranged SS may be able to make 60-100 more plays than an average or below average SS over a full season. I know this is debatable and hard to prove with all the variables in this game of baseball, but for argument's sake, play along. You don't ahev to agree with all the assumptions made in the following example, but give me your honest opinion on what SS you'd rather have- assuming all things not listed as equal.

    Offense:

    SSA .280 (140/500), OBP: .320 (176/600), 60 XBH, 65 RBI, 5 SB

    SSB .220 (110/500), OBP: .250 (125/600), 30 XBH, 45 RBI, 15 SB

    Defense:

    SSA: 720 plays made including 75 DPs/ 15 errors

    SSB: 800 plays made including 90 DPs/30 errors

     

    SSA has 30 more hits (all for XBH) and gets on base 50 more times. SSB steals a few more bases and drives in 20 less runs.

    SSB makes 100 more plays which shortens innings considerably. He turns 40 more DPs, but makes 15 more errors (some may amount to 2 bases given to the batter).

    I'm not saying these numbers are a true reflection of Iggy vs Drew, but if they were, to me, it's a hands down 100% easy decision to go with Iggy.

    That being said, I think Drew is a better fielder than I expected, Iggy may make 35-40 errors. Iggy may only turn 5-10 more DPs (not 15) and make only 30-40 more plays (not 80), but even that would make it a close call.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Moon, I like your expansion of the trade with Aceves.  I like Iggy as much as anyone but as you say the stars are alligned for a trade and if we aren't going to use him, then let's do it.  I've said this before, but I've read in papers out here quotes from NL front office personnel, "The Red Sox don"t know what they've got with Iggy."  Maybe we could dance back inside with the Dodgers and give them another shot to the ribs.  The papers out here make it sound like Mattingly is going to lose his job if they don't get going.

    Not every MLB team GM sees their SS position and says, "I want to boost offense at that position". I'm pretty certain some GMs are thinking the opposite, that is, "I want to boost defense at the most important defensive position on the field".

    From 2012-2013, there are 8 teams with a SS OPS below .700, so it's not like Iggy's poor offense would stand out like a sore thumb. Although Iggy is not likely to have an OPS above .715 for quite some time, if ever, he may not be too far from that number, which is the team SS mean OPS from 2012-2013 (.716).

    There are also 11 teams with a team SS UZR below -10.8 since the start of 2012. 8 teams are below -24.2!  4 teams are below -36.0! (Colorado, NYM, Cleve, & Hou)

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    Iglesias is still very young. Not defending a bad attitude by any player , but it is at least understandable due to his youth and disappointment at being sent down when he was playing so well.  He did not have a reputation as a problem guy.  Not time to give up on him. 

     




    He had no business getting mad when he already knew the job was Drews. I understand being overall frustrated, but the kid cant hit. a .220BA with a sub 300 OBP with minimal power in AAA is going to be worse in MLB.

     

    Theyre playing him at 3b and 2b now and I imagine that will at least land him a spot as a UI this year for either a trade or to at least prove he can hit MLB pitching. Ciriaco needs to go.

     



    1) The SS position should not be primarily about hitting.

     

    2) He has a .245 AAA BA in over 900 PAs not .220.

    3) While it is not common for players to do better in MLB than the minors, we don't have to look any further than Ciriaco:

        AAA   .265/.281 (1080 PAs)

    minors  .272/.299 (3502 PAs)

        MLB   .286/.315 (459 PAs)

       

     

     




    I guess he has the rest of the year to prove guys like me wrong. I hope he does.

    Plus I was talking about his stats this year, which last time I looked a couple days ago were at .205/.262/.330 in 31 games for Pawtucket.

     

     



    OK, but to me, it's not about offense with the short stop. Yes, it can make a difference, but what a SS does out on the field is so much more influential than getting on base 30-40 more times over a full season.

     

     



    I value defense as well, but with me, you have to have some offense too.
    Although Drew may not be as flashy as Iggy, Ill take him over Iggy any day of the week because hes a much better overall player. Hes got above average and steady defense along with a good bat for a SS. Ill take that over a one sided player any day. Come june or july people around here will be completely frustrated with Iggy because hes almost an automatic out. They will forget about the once in a while highlight reel catches when he has a 220BA with a 280 OBP and barely ever on base.

     

    Sorry, but you gotta hit better than he does, great defense or not. You become a national league team with him batting 9th. Will will agree to disagree on this.

    We just differ from what we personally like in a SS, thats all.

     



    I understand your side of the argument, and I understand how it's hard for some here to believe that a great ranged SS may be able to make 60-100 more plays than an average or below average SS over a full season. I know this is debatable and hard to prove with all the variables in this game of baseball, but for argument's sake, play along. You don't ahev to agree with all the assumptions made in the following example, but give me your honest opinion on what SS you'd rather have- assuming all things not listed as equal.

     

    Offense:

    SSA .280 (140/500), OBP: .320 (176/600), 60 XBH, 65 RBI, 5 SB

    SSB .220 (110/500), OBP: .250 (125/600), 30 XBH, 45 RBI, 15 SB

    Defense:

    SSA: 720 plays made including 75 DPs/ 15 errors

    SSB: 800 plays made including 90 DPs/30 errors

     

    SSA has 30 more hits (all for XBH) and gets on base 50 more times. SSB steals a few more bases and drives in 20 less runs.

    SSB makes 100 more plays which shortens innings considerably. He turns 40 more DPs, but makes 15 more errors (some may amount to 2 bases given to the batter).

    I'm not saying these numbers are a true reflection of Iggy vs Drew, but if they were, to me, it's a hands down 100% easy decision to go with Iggy.

    That being said, I think Drew is a better fielder than I expected, Iggy may make 35-40 errors. Iggy may only turn 5-10 more DPs (not 15) and make only 30-40 more plays (not 80), but even that would make it a close call.

     




    I do see your side Moon, and can understand it to a point. I think where we differ in this is the production at SS. I think Drew makes most of the plays that Iggy does. Not all because hes not as gifted defensively, but most. I also think hes a bit better on OBP. its only 320 because of 3 incomplete injury years. its closer to 340ish and I think we will see that at the end of the year. But thats just picking nits on my part.

     

    Overall, I do understand your point and the numbers you listed above would make one think about which player to choose. IF they were that drastically different on defense, Its a good arguement.

    I do hope Iggy will hit, because as of right now theres nobody else to play SS next year. I would still have a big issue with a 220BA and a 260OBP regardless of the defense, only because I dont think a Drew type guy hurts you one bit at SS. IMHO, If Iggy is indeed that kind of player, I think he belongs in the NL. Different game thats better suited for him, or an AL team with a monster offense like Detroit or even Toronto..

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    Iglesias is still very young. Not defending a bad attitude by any player , but it is at least understandable due to his youth and disappointment at being sent down when he was playing so well.  He did not have a reputation as a problem guy.  Not time to give up on him. 

     




    He had no business getting mad when he already knew the job was Drews. I understand being overall frustrated, but the kid cant hit. a .220BA with a sub 300 OBP with minimal power in AAA is going to be worse in MLB.

     

    Theyre playing him at 3b and 2b now and I imagine that will at least land him a spot as a UI this year for either a trade or to at least prove he can hit MLB pitching. Ciriaco needs to go.

     



    1) The SS position should not be primarily about hitting.

     

    2) He has a .245 AAA BA in over 900 PAs not .220.

    3) While it is not common for players to do better in MLB than the minors, we don't have to look any further than Ciriaco:

        AAA   .265/.281 (1080 PAs)

    minors  .272/.299 (3502 PAs)

        MLB   .286/.315 (459 PAs)

       

     

     




    I guess he has the rest of the year to prove guys like me wrong. I hope he does.

    Plus I was talking about his stats this year, which last time I looked a couple days ago were at .205/.262/.330 in 31 games for Pawtucket.

     

     



    OK, but to me, it's not about offense with the short stop. Yes, it can make a difference, but what a SS does out on the field is so much more influential than getting on base 30-40 more times over a full season.

     

     



    I value defense as well, but with me, you have to have some offense too.
    Although Drew may not be as flashy as Iggy, Ill take him over Iggy any day of the week because hes a much better overall player. Hes got above average and steady defense along with a good bat for a SS. Ill take that over a one sided player any day. Come june or july people around here will be completely frustrated with Iggy because hes almost an automatic out. They will forget about the once in a while highlight reel catches when he has a 220BA with a 280 OBP and barely ever on base.

     

    Sorry, but you gotta hit better than he does, great defense or not. You become a national league team with him batting 9th. Will will agree to disagree on this.

    We just differ from what we personally like in a SS, thats all.

     



    I understand your side of the argument, and I understand how it's hard for some here to believe that a great ranged SS may be able to make 60-100 more plays than an average or below average SS over a full season. I know this is debatable and hard to prove with all the variables in this game of baseball, but for argument's sake, play along. You don't ahev to agree with all the assumptions made in the following example, but give me your honest opinion on what SS you'd rather have- assuming all things not listed as equal.

     

    Offense:

    SSA .280 (140/500), OBP: .320 (176/600), 60 XBH, 65 RBI, 5 SB

    SSB .220 (110/500), OBP: .250 (125/600), 30 XBH, 45 RBI, 15 SB

    Defense:

    SSA: 720 plays made including 75 DPs/ 15 errors

    SSB: 800 plays made including 90 DPs/30 errors

     

    SSA has 30 more hits (all for XBH) and gets on base 50 more times. SSB steals a few more bases and drives in 20 less runs.

    SSB makes 100 more plays which shortens innings considerably. He turns 40 more DPs, but makes 15 more errors (some may amount to 2 bases given to the batter).

    I'm not saying these numbers are a true reflection of Iggy vs Drew, but if they were, to me, it's a hands down 100% easy decision to go with Iggy.

    That being said, I think Drew is a better fielder than I expected, Iggy may make 35-40 errors. Iggy may only turn 5-10 more DPs (not 15) and make only 30-40 more plays (not 80), but even that would make it a close call.

     




    I do see your side Moon, and can understand it to a point. I think where we differ in this is the production at SS. I think Drew makes most of the plays that Iggy does. Not all because hes not as gifted defensively, but most. I also think hes a bit better on OBP. its only 320 because of 3 incomplete injury years. its closer to 340ish and I think we will see that at the end of the year. But thats just picking nits on my part.

     

    Overall, I do understand your point and the numbers you listed above would make one think about which player to choose. IF they were that drastically different on defense, Its a good arguement.

    I do hope Iggy will hit, because as of right now theres nobody else to play SS next year. I would still have a big issue with a 220BA and a 260OBP regardless of the defense, only because I dont think a Drew type guy hurts you one bit at SS. IMHO, If Iggy is indeed that kind of player, I think he belongs in the NL. Different game thats better suited for him, or an AL team with a monster offense like Detroit or even Toronto..

     



    Drew has only been over .333 OBP once since his rookiw year. (2010)

    I think he can approach .340 (1/2 gms in Fenway), but I also think Iggy will do better than .250, if he keeps bunting that well and keeping the defense in at the corners.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    Iglesias is still very young. Not defending a bad attitude by any player , but it is at least understandable due to his youth and disappointment at being sent down when he was playing so well.  He did not have a reputation as a problem guy.  Not time to give up on him. 

     




    He had no business getting mad when he already knew the job was Drews. I understand being overall frustrated, but the kid cant hit. a .220BA with a sub 300 OBP with minimal power in AAA is going to be worse in MLB.

     

    Theyre playing him at 3b and 2b now and I imagine that will at least land him a spot as a UI this year for either a trade or to at least prove he can hit MLB pitching. Ciriaco needs to go.

     



    1) The SS position should not be primarily about hitting.

     

    2) He has a .245 AAA BA in over 900 PAs not .220.

    3) While it is not common for players to do better in MLB than the minors, we don't have to look any further than Ciriaco:

        AAA   .265/.281 (1080 PAs)

    minors  .272/.299 (3502 PAs)

        MLB   .286/.315 (459 PAs)

       

     

     




    I guess he has the rest of the year to prove guys like me wrong. I hope he does.

    Plus I was talking about his stats this year, which last time I looked a couple days ago were at .205/.262/.330 in 31 games for Pawtucket.

     

     



    OK, but to me, it's not about offense with the short stop. Yes, it can make a difference, but what a SS does out on the field is so much more influential than getting on base 30-40 more times over a full season.

     

     



    I value defense as well, but with me, you have to have some offense too.
    Although Drew may not be as flashy as Iggy, Ill take him over Iggy any day of the week because hes a much better overall player. Hes got above average and steady defense along with a good bat for a SS. Ill take that over a one sided player any day. Come june or july people around here will be completely frustrated with Iggy because hes almost an automatic out. They will forget about the once in a while highlight reel catches when he has a 220BA with a 280 OBP and barely ever on base.

     

    Sorry, but you gotta hit better than he does, great defense or not. You become a national league team with him batting 9th. Will will agree to disagree on this.

    We just differ from what we personally like in a SS, thats all.

     



    I understand your side of the argument, and I understand how it's hard for some here to believe that a great ranged SS may be able to make 60-100 more plays than an average or below average SS over a full season. I know this is debatable and hard to prove with all the variables in this game of baseball, but for argument's sake, play along. You don't ahev to agree with all the assumptions made in the following example, but give me your honest opinion on what SS you'd rather have- assuming all things not listed as equal.

     

    Offense:

    SSA .280 (140/500), OBP: .320 (176/600), 60 XBH, 65 RBI, 5 SB

    SSB .220 (110/500), OBP: .250 (125/600), 30 XBH, 45 RBI, 15 SB

    Defense:

    SSA: 720 plays made including 75 DPs/ 15 errors

    SSB: 800 plays made including 90 DPs/30 errors

     

    SSA has 30 more hits (all for XBH) and gets on base 50 more times. SSB steals a few more bases and drives in 20 less runs.

    SSB makes 100 more plays which shortens innings considerably. He turns 40 more DPs, but makes 15 more errors (some may amount to 2 bases given to the batter).

    I'm not saying these numbers are a true reflection of Iggy vs Drew, but if they were, to me, it's a hands down 100% easy decision to go with Iggy.

    That being said, I think Drew is a better fielder than I expected, Iggy may make 35-40 errors. Iggy may only turn 5-10 more DPs (not 15) and make only 30-40 more plays (not 80), but even that would make it a close call.

     




    I do see your side Moon, and can understand it to a point. I think where we differ in this is the production at SS. I think Drew makes most of the plays that Iggy does. Not all because hes not as gifted defensively, but most. I also think hes a bit better on OBP. its only 320 because of 3 incomplete injury years. its closer to 340ish and I think we will see that at the end of the year. But thats just picking nits on my part.

     

    Overall, I do understand your point and the numbers you listed above would make one think about which player to choose. IF they were that drastically different on defense, Its a good arguement.

    I do hope Iggy will hit, because as of right now theres nobody else to play SS next year. I would still have a big issue with a 220BA and a 260OBP regardless of the defense, only because I dont think a Drew type guy hurts you one bit at SS. IMHO, If Iggy is indeed that kind of player, I think he belongs in the NL. Different game thats better suited for him, or an AL team with a monster offense like Detroit or even Toronto..

     

     



    Drew has only been over .333 OBP once since his rookiw year. (2010)

     

    I think he can approach .340 (1/2 gms in Fenway), but I also think Iggy will do better than .250, if he keeps bunting that well and keeping the defense in at the corners.

     




    Both OBP's were slightly lower than what I personally think they will be. I think Drew is about a .340OBP guy and Iggy is about a 290OBP.

     

    I think it just comes down to preference. Both make a good arguement to be a starter depending on what a team values and how much. Also their financial situation.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Both OBP's were slightly lower than what I personally think they will be. I think Drew is about a .340OBP guy and Iggy is about a 290OBP.

     

    I think it just comes down to preference. Both make a good arguement to be a starter depending on what a team values and how much. Also their financial situation.

     

    So, a 50 point OBP differential is only 25 more times on base over 500 PAs. With Drew, those would likely be 25 more XBHs over Iggy as the major offensive differential between the 2. All other things being roughly equal: Drew gets 15 more 2Bs and 10 more HRs and Iggy gets maybe 15 more SBs on offense.

    The defensive side is what is harder to quantify, but I feel Iggy would surely make at least 50 more plays over 150 games than Drew, including more DPs. This makes it close call no matter which way you look at it. If you believe 50 is too high, then I can understand your point about choosing Drew over Iggy. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Bump the Bozo.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Both OBP's were slightly lower than what I personally think they will be. I think Drew is about a .340OBP guy and Iggy is about a 290OBP.

     

    I think it just comes down to preference. Both make a good arguement to be a starter depending on what a team values and how much. Also their financial situation.

     

    So, a 50 point OBP differential is only 25 more times on base over 500 PAs. With Drew, those would likely be 25 more XBHs over Iggy as the major offensive differential between the 2. All other things being roughly equal: Drew gets 15 more 2Bs and 10 more HRs and Iggy gets maybe 15 more SBs on offense.

    The defensive side is what is harder to quantify, but I feel Iggy would surely make at least 50 more plays over 150 games than Drew, including more DPs. This makes it close call no matter which way you look at it. If you believe 50 is too high, then I can understand your point about choosing Drew over Iggy. 

     




    I think thats it Moon. I dont think Drew misses that many (50). I also thing that the XBH that Drew will get including HR will obviously be more beneficial to drive in more runs.

     

    Iggys getting the start at 3b tonight with Middy on the DL. Im wondering if they dont just DFA Ciriaco and just use Holt as the UI if need be since hes alreay on the 40-man. This will open up a spot in which Id put Brentz on the 40-man and give him some playing time while Vic is also on the DL.

    On a side note...expitch sent me a copy of his new book. Lots of great interviews with some baseball legends on Rod Dedeaux. Ive just skimmed through it, but plan on start reading it later tonight or this weekend.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jidgef. Show jidgef's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Both OBP's were slightly lower than what I personally think they will be. I think Drew is about a .340OBP guy and Iggy is about a 290OBP.

     

    I think it just comes down to preference. Both make a good arguement to be a starter depending on what a team values and how much. Also their financial situation.

     

    So, a 50 point OBP differential is only 25 more times on base over 500 PAs. With Drew, those would likely be 25 more XBHs over Iggy as the major offensive differential between the 2. All other things being roughly equal: Drew gets 15 more 2Bs and 10 more HRs and Iggy gets maybe 15 more SBs on offense.

    The defensive side is what is harder to quantify, but I feel Iggy would surely make at least 50 more plays over 150 games than Drew, including more DPs. This makes it close call no matter which way you look at it. If you believe 50 is too high, then I can understand your point about choosing Drew over Iggy. 

     




    I think thats it Moon. I dont think Drew misses that many (50). I also thing that the XBH that Drew will get including HR will obviously be more beneficial to drive in more runs.

     

    Iggys getting the start at 3b tonight with Middy on the DL. Im wondering if they dont just DFA Ciriaco and just use Holt as the UI if need be since hes alreay on the 40-man. This will open up a spot in which Id put Brentz on the 40-man and give him some playing time while Vic is also on the DL.

    On a side note...expitch sent me a copy of his new book. Lots of great interviews with some baseball legends on Rod Dedeaux. Ive just skimmed through it, but plan on start reading it later tonight or this weekend.



    That's a book I'd be interested in lefty. I've had very little interaction with expitch, but if you could steer him my way I would love it. I've got quite a collection of baseball books and there's always room for more.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to jidgef's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Both OBP's were slightly lower than what I personally think they will be. I think Drew is about a .340OBP guy and Iggy is about a 290OBP.

     

    I think it just comes down to preference. Both make a good arguement to be a starter depending on what a team values and how much. Also their financial situation.

     

    So, a 50 point OBP differential is only 25 more times on base over 500 PAs. With Drew, those would likely be 25 more XBHs over Iggy as the major offensive differential between the 2. All other things being roughly equal: Drew gets 15 more 2Bs and 10 more HRs and Iggy gets maybe 15 more SBs on offense.

    The defensive side is what is harder to quantify, but I feel Iggy would surely make at least 50 more plays over 150 games than Drew, including more DPs. This makes it close call no matter which way you look at it. If you believe 50 is too high, then I can understand your point about choosing Drew over Iggy. 

     




    I think thats it Moon. I dont think Drew misses that many (50). I also thing that the XBH that Drew will get including HR will obviously be more beneficial to drive in more runs.

     

    Iggys getting the start at 3b tonight with Middy on the DL. Im wondering if they dont just DFA Ciriaco and just use Holt as the UI if need be since hes alreay on the 40-man. This will open up a spot in which Id put Brentz on the 40-man and give him some playing time while Vic is also on the DL.

    On a side note...expitch sent me a copy of his new book. Lots of great interviews with some baseball legends on Rod Dedeaux. Ive just skimmed through it, but plan on start reading it later tonight or this weekend.

     



    That's a book I'd be interested in lefty. I've had very little interaction with expitch, but if you could steer him my way I would love it. I've got quite a collection of baseball books and there's always room for more.

     

     




    He still reads this thread jid, just doesnt post anymore. Maybe you guys can message each other.

     

    Hes is very smart, baseball wise, as well as an all around very accomplished man in and out of the sport. I have a lot of respect for what hes done and his first hand knowledge of the game.

    I believe if you do a search for  "Rod Dedeaux: Master of the Diamond" you should be able to find it.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from jidgef. Show jidgef's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Thanks Southpaw, I will.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to jidgef's comment:

    Thanks Southpaw, I will.




    No Problem jid. I will also make him aware that you would like to make contact with him when I email him next time.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Both OBP's were slightly lower than what I personally think they will be. I think Drew is about a .340OBP guy and Iggy is about a 290OBP.

     

    I think it just comes down to preference. Both make a good arguement to be a starter depending on what a team values and how much. Also their financial situation.

     

    So, a 50 point OBP differential is only 25 more times on base over 500 PAs. With Drew, those would likely be 25 more XBHs over Iggy as the major offensive differential between the 2. All other things being roughly equal: Drew gets 15 more 2Bs and 10 more HRs and Iggy gets maybe 15 more SBs on offense.

    The defensive side is what is harder to quantify, but I feel Iggy would surely make at least 50 more plays over 150 games than Drew, including more DPs. This makes it close call no matter which way you look at it. If you believe 50 is too high, then I can understand your point about choosing Drew over Iggy. 

     




    I think thats it Moon. I dont think Drew misses that many (50). I also thing that the XBH that Drew will get including HR will obviously be more beneficial to drive in more runs.

     

    Iggys getting the start at 3b tonight with Middy on the DL. Im wondering if they dont just DFA Ciriaco and just use Holt as the UI if need be since hes alreay on the 40-man. This will open up a spot in which Id put Brentz on the 40-man and give him some playing time while Vic is also on the DL.

    On a side note...expitch sent me a copy of his new book. Lots of great interviews with some baseball legends on Rod Dedeaux. Ive just skimmed through it, but plan on start reading it later tonight or this weekend.



    I may disagee on the 50 number, but if Iggy does make 50 more plays, I think it makes him at least even with Drew and his 25 more hits (all XBHs).

    At season start, I thought that number might be 80-100. I don't think that anymore.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to jidgef's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Both OBP's were slightly lower than what I personally think they will be. I think Drew is about a .340OBP guy and Iggy is about a 290OBP.

     

    I think it just comes down to preference. Both make a good arguement to be a starter depending on what a team values and how much. Also their financial situation.

     

    So, a 50 point OBP differential is only 25 more times on base over 500 PAs. With Drew, those would likely be 25 more XBHs over Iggy as the major offensive differential between the 2. All other things being roughly equal: Drew gets 15 more 2Bs and 10 more HRs and Iggy gets maybe 15 more SBs on offense.

    The defensive side is what is harder to quantify, but I feel Iggy would surely make at least 50 more plays over 150 games than Drew, including more DPs. This makes it close call no matter which way you look at it. If you believe 50 is too high, then I can understand your point about choosing Drew over Iggy. 

     




    I think thats it Moon. I dont think Drew misses that many (50). I also thing that the XBH that Drew will get including HR will obviously be more beneficial to drive in more runs.

     

    Iggys getting the start at 3b tonight with Middy on the DL. Im wondering if they dont just DFA Ciriaco and just use Holt as the UI if need be since hes alreay on the 40-man. This will open up a spot in which Id put Brentz on the 40-man and give him some playing time while Vic is also on the DL.

    On a side note...expitch sent me a copy of his new book. Lots of great interviews with some baseball legends on Rod Dedeaux. Ive just skimmed through it, but plan on start reading it later tonight or this weekend.

     



    That's a book I'd be interested in lefty. I've had very little interaction with expitch, but if you could steer him my way I would love it. I've got quite a collection of baseball books and there's always room for more.

     

     




    He still reads this thread jid, just doesnt post anymore. Maybe you guys can message each other.

     

    Hes is very smart, baseball wise, as well as an all around very accomplished man in and out of the sport. I have a lot of respect for what hes done and his first hand knowledge of the game.

    I believe if you do a search for  "Rod Dedeaux: Master of the Diamond" you should be able to find it.



    Losing ex and 5katz really hurt this board.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Both OBP's were slightly lower than what I personally think they will be. I think Drew is about a .340OBP guy and Iggy is about a 290OBP.

     

    I think it just comes down to preference. Both make a good arguement to be a starter depending on what a team values and how much. Also their financial situation.

     

    So, a 50 point OBP differential is only 25 more times on base over 500 PAs. With Drew, those would likely be 25 more XBHs over Iggy as the major offensive differential between the 2. All other things being roughly equal: Drew gets 15 more 2Bs and 10 more HRs and Iggy gets maybe 15 more SBs on offense.

    The defensive side is what is harder to quantify, but I feel Iggy would surely make at least 50 more plays over 150 games than Drew, including more DPs. This makes it close call no matter which way you look at it. If you believe 50 is too high, then I can understand your point about choosing Drew over Iggy. 

     




    I think thats it Moon. I dont think Drew misses that many (50). I also thing that the XBH that Drew will get including HR will obviously be more beneficial to drive in more runs.

     

    Iggys getting the start at 3b tonight with Middy on the DL. Im wondering if they dont just DFA Ciriaco and just use Holt as the UI if need be since hes alreay on the 40-man. This will open up a spot in which Id put Brentz on the 40-man and give him some playing time while Vic is also on the DL.

    On a side note...expitch sent me a copy of his new book. Lots of great interviews with some baseball legends on Rod Dedeaux. Ive just skimmed through it, but plan on start reading it later tonight or this weekend.

     



    I may disagee on the 50 number, but if Iggy does make 50 more plays, I think it makes him at least even with Drew and his 25 more hits (all XBHs).

     

    At season start, I thought that number might be 80-100. I don't think that anymore.




    Drew made another great diving stop tonight. Although he wasnt able to get the speedy Brantley out, it was one heck of a play.

    Iggy had a nice hit tonight as well. I hope he can prove me wrong and earn his keep. I would be more than happy with him as the starting SS next year.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    It was no surprise they called up Iglesias, I just didn't expect it so fast. And I sincerely think expitch is still with us. I don't know what happened to 5katz. I hope he is ok because he was a class guy. There are a lot of great Redsox forums out there guys. 5katz could well have just moved to another site. This one is is kind of a pedestrian site. The thouroughbreds are for the most part on other venues. MLBtraderumors. Soxprospects. Over the monster...etc. I recommend you guys look iook into other websites also. I pretty much only look at a couple threads here any more. We have some major nincompoops here. Guys who would get demolished on other sites. If I hadn't become friends with most of you I wouldn't be here either. There are some nice people here and moon is top notch and deserves our support for all the work he puts in. 

    I am planning something special for this year's draft guys. Earning my keep.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    I may disagee on the 50 number, but if Iggy does make 50 more plays, I think it makes him at least even with Drew and his 25 more hits (all XBHs).

     

    At season start, I thought that number might be 80-100. I don't think that anymore.

     




    Drew made another great diving stop tonight. Although he wasnt able to get the speedy Brantley out, it was one heck of a play.

     

    Iggy had a nice hit tonight as well. I hope he can prove me wrong and earn his keep. I would be more than happy with him as the starting SS next year.

     

    It was a nice play, but Iggy makes that play without having to dive...

     

    Tongue Out

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

    It was no surprise they called up Iglesias, I just didn't expect it so fast. And I sincerely think expitch is still with us. I don't know what happened to 5katz. I hope he is ok because he was a class guy. There are a lot of great Redsox forums out there guys. 5katz could well have just moved to another site. This one is is kind of a pedestrian site. The thouroughbreds are for the most part on other venues. MLBtraderumors. Soxprospects. Over the monster...etc. I recommend you guys look iook into other websites also. I pretty much only look at a couple threads here any more. We have some major nincompoops here. Guys who would get demolished on other sites. If I hadn't become friends with most of you I wouldn't be here either. There are some nice people here and moon is top notch and deserves our support for all the work he puts in. 

    I am planning something special for this year's draft guys. Earning my keep.

     




    expitch still reads the threads and I know 5katz is still here...I visit and post on MLBTR and a couple other sites as well. MLBTR has a lot of knowledgeable posters and not much of this trolling crap that goes on here.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I may disagee on the 50 number, but if Iggy does make 50 more plays, I think it makes him at least even with Drew and his 25 more hits (all XBHs).

     

    At season start, I thought that number might be 80-100. I don't think that anymore.

     




    Drew made another great diving stop tonight. Although he wasnt able to get the speedy Brantley out, it was one heck of a play.

     

    Iggy had a nice hit tonight as well. I hope he can prove me wrong and earn his keep. I would be more than happy with him as the starting SS next year.

     

    It was a nice play, but Iggy makes that play without having to dive...

     

    Tongue Out

     




    smartazzWink

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

     

    Kazmir pitches for the Indians tomorrow?  I thought he retired?!?  And Giambi plays for the Indians?   Didn't Giambi interview for the manager position with the Rockies during the offseason?   LOL

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

     

    Kazmir pitches for the Indians tomorrow?  I thought he retired?!?  And Giambi plays for the Indians?   Didn't Giambi interview for the manager position with the Rockies during the offseason?   LOL




    you realize that we beat all former Sox pitchers tonight? Masterson, Hill and Albers...

     
  25. This post has been removed.

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share