A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Iggy's .202 at Pawtucket this year looks poor, but I don't think it reflects his ability at this point.  He hit .266 last year in 3 times as many AB's.  And I don't think he's gotten worse. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Iggy's probably going to get more infield hits, bunt hits, and dribblers than some hitters.  I don't care how pretty someone is as long as they get on.  If he's as good a bunter as I've heard, then he could cause some havoc in the line-up, help us play for one run if we need it.  Personally I'm hoping someone needs a SS before the year is over, and we make a trade of Iggy or Drew, whichever one we don't see in our future.

    Remember that SS we couldn't live without a few years back, I think he came from the Dodgers and was going to be a great offensive threat, except that he didn't work out at all, and ended up somewhere in the minors where he hit somebody with a bat.  Point being, predicting someone's success isn't a science, and many guys who hit so-so in the minors actually hit better in majors.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Iglesias is definitely not the answer at 3rd but he should fill Ciarico's slot very well. It's not like we can get much for Ciriaco but dropping a half mil here and there helps especially if the team improves in the process. We are going to have to give Iglesias mlb PT in order for him to improve at some point. I like the concept of phasing him in. Who knows, he might even be able to take Drew's slot next year. At minimum he should be one heck of a defensive infield reserve.

    We need Middlebrooks to come back strong. He should be able to at some point. He is just missing a lot of balls which he used to clean out. We need to ride that horse until he proves he can't play, or can play at the mlb level. He should get at least another 100 AB to me. If he doesn't cut it we need to know that this year.

    Gotta say with JBJ now hitting .360 with over a .460 OBP and great defense in 71 AAA AB, I think I'd start trying to find a slot for him. The kid is more than just a hitter and sometimes we lose sight of that. He is a potential all star level player. I'd strongly consider trading someone and bring the kid back up and let him play. Be it Gomes, Nava, Carp or Victorino. Sell one of them high hopefully but the kid is ready. As ready as any of those guys, and I'm a fan of all of them. Let's get some value for our excess talent.

    I'd bring up Lavarnway also. Trade some of these guys and go with the kids when they show that they are probably ready.  If for some reason a catcher gets hurt we would still have Vasquez as back up and he's been doing fine in AA. If we are down an OF we still have guys like Brentz and Hazelbacker. We are going to lose some of these guys in the rule 5 draft anyway if we don't trade them or use them at the mlb level. 

    We are too risk averse sometimes. We have to give kids a chance or we lose them with no value. I think JBJ and Lavarnway could step in right now and help us.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Why carry 3 catchers on the 25-man roster? Salty and Ross have been doing a good job this year so far. Saltys offense has been a lot better this year too. I dont agree with changing things that are currently working.

    Ellsbury, Nava and Vic (when healthy) have been pretty solid and Carp has been about as good a bench guy you can ask for. Gomes is struggling, but still has a good OBP.
    Not going to get anything for Gomes and not much either for Carp, being bench guys. Ells is going nowhere and I dont think you can move Vic right now either without losing your azz. Also, I like Nava, who has improved every time hes got a chance here. Hes under control for 4.5 more years.

    I agree that some of these kids are ready, but, IMO, that doesnt mean they should automatically come up and the Sox should move guys that are doing good because of that.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    Why carry 3 catchers on the 25-man roster? Salty and Ross have been doing a good job this year so far. Saltys offense has been a lot better this year too. I dont agree with changing things that are currently working.

    Ellsbury, Nava and Vic (when healthy) have been pretty solid and Carp has been about as good a bench guy you can ask for. Gomes is struggling, but still has a good OBP.
    Not going to get anything for Gomes and not much either for Carp, being bench guys. Ells is going nowhere and I dont think you can move Vic right now either without losing your azz. Also, I like Nava, who has improved every time hes got a chance here. Hes under control for 4.5 more years.

    I agree that some of these kids are ready, but, IMO, that doesnt mean they should automatically come up and the Sox should move guys that are doing good because of that.

     



    Great points, but trading guys is not giving them away. 

    If we trade Salty for a player that is better, what's wrong with that?

    The drop off from a Salty/Ross tandem to a Ross/Lava tandem must be weighed vs the other positional gain we get in return for the trade.

    I realize that the chances are a trade of Salty would most likely be for a prospect, so we gain nothing for 2013, but there is a chance we trade for a player that fills a greater need.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Iggy belongs at SS not 3B. It's really a joke to put someone that great at SS out of position. I get that necessity says Drew can't play 3B, but this just seems so wrong on so many levels.

     

     



    So wrong on so many levels?  That seems a little dramatic.  Drew and Iggy are both playing well and we're winning games.

     

     



    Yes. As wrong as it was to put JBJ in LF and the inferior Ellsbury in CF.

    Many levels.

    Not dramatics.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:


    So wrong on so many levels?  That seems a little dramatic.  Drew and Iggy are both playing well and we're winning games.

    Yes. As wrong as it was to put JBJ in LF and the inferior Ellsbury in CF.

    Many levels.

    Not dramatics.



    I think it's only a short-term situation while WMB is on the shelf.

    But I have to ask, what are the 'many levels'?

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to RedsoxProspects's comment:

    Iglesias is definitely not the answer at 3rd but he should fill Ciarico's slot very well. It's not like we can get much for Ciriaco but dropping a half mil here and there helps especially if the team improves in the process. We are going to have to give Iglesias mlb PT in order for him to improve at some point. I like the concept of phasing him in. Who knows, he might even be able to take Drew's slot next year. At minimum he should be one heck of a defensive infield reserve.

    We need Middlebrooks to come back strong. He should be able to at some point. He is just missing a lot of balls which he used to clean out. We need to ride that horse until he proves he can't play, or can play at the mlb level. He should get at least another 100 AB to me. If he doesn't cut it we need to know that this year.

    Gotta say with JBJ now hitting .360 with over a .460 OBP and great defense in 71 AAA AB, I think I'd start trying to find a slot for him. The kid is more than just a hitter and sometimes we lose sight of that. He is a potential all star level player. I'd strongly consider trading someone and bring the kid back up and let him play. Be it Gomes, Nava, Carp or Victorino. Sell one of them high hopefully but the kid is ready. As ready as any of those guys, and I'm a fan of all of them. Let's get some value for our excess talent.

    I'd bring up Lavarnway also. Trade some of these guys and go with the kids when they show that they are probably ready.  If for some reason a catcher gets hurt we would still have Vasquez as back up and he's been doing fine in AA. If we are down an OF we still have guys like Brentz and Hazelbacker. We are going to lose some of these guys in the rule 5 draft anyway if we don't trade them or use them at the mlb level. 

    We are too risk averse sometimes. We have to give kids a chance or we lose them with no value. I think JBJ and Lavarnway could step in right now and help us.



    We could really use one more solid starting pitcher and/or bat. 

    I would package Salty soon while his stock is highest,  Keep Ross who knows the staff and giv Lav more playing time.  I also feel with the small role Gomes has played in our present success it would be a great opportunity to slip Brentz into his slot if anyone had interest Jonny.  The big question with any trade with a club thats doing well is ...  Would it mess with our present chemistry? 

    Besides Gomes and Salty we also have Ciriaco, Doubront, Aceves, Mortenson, Breslow, Hazelbaker, Snyder, Holt, Almanzar, Workman, Sutton, Henry etc. that teams could have interest in, without losing Renaudo, Barnes, Webster, De La Rosa, Bradley or Bogy.  With that said I would still be willing to lose one of our four top young pitching prospects if the return was high enough.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Why carry 3 catchers on the 25-man roster? Salty and Ross have been doing a good job this year so far. Saltys offense has been a lot better this year too. I dont agree with changing things that are currently working.

    Ellsbury, Nava and Vic (when healthy) have been pretty solid and Carp has been about as good a bench guy you can ask for. Gomes is struggling, but still has a good OBP.
    Not going to get anything for Gomes and not much either for Carp, being bench guys. Ells is going nowhere and I dont think you can move Vic right now either without losing your azz. Also, I like Nava, who has improved every time hes got a chance here. Hes under control for 4.5 more years.

    I agree that some of these kids are ready, but, IMO, that doesnt mean they should automatically come up and the Sox should move guys that are doing good because of that.

     

     



    Great points, but trading guys is not giving them away. 

     

    If we trade Salty for a player that is better, what's wrong with that?

    The drop off from a Salty/Ross tandem to a Ross/Lava tandem must be weighed vs the other positional gain we get in return for the trade.

    I realize that the chances are a trade of Salty would most likely be for a prospect, so we gain nothing for 2013, but there is a chance we trade for a player that fills a greater need.




    Oh, Ive always said if it makes the team better, than thats a good trade. My point was I dont think we would get something that would make us better right now to replace Salty, which is what we would need IMO. We would be weaker at the position. I think with Vasquez climbing the ranks, Lavarnway would be the better one to trade IMO. He would net us a much better return and it wouldnt matter if the player helped us this year or in the near future.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     


    So wrong on so many levels?  That seems a little dramatic.  Drew and Iggy are both playing well and we're winning games.

    Yes. As wrong as it was to put JBJ in LF and the inferior Ellsbury in CF.

    Many levels.

    Not dramatics.

     



    I think it's only a short-term situation while WMB is on the shelf.

     

    But I have to ask, what are the 'many levels'?

     



    1) Iggy is perhaps the best fielding SS the Red Sox have ever had. Making him play 3B is absurd.

    2) Drew could have practiced at 3B, and been moved there.

    3) Iggy should be the starting SS over Drew even with WMB healthy. (I've listed my reasons enough already.)

    4) Drew's lack of range, but quickness and steady glove and arm seem more suited for 3B than SS even if the Iggy debate wasn't being played out.

    5) Iggy's confidence has been shaky. This isn't helping.

    6) Drew is gone after this year (if not earlier via trade), so his confidence is not as big an issue.

    There may be more, but that's a few levels anyways.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Those are different reasons, but not different levels. Laughing

    Sorry man, I just think that 'many levels' expression is a little overused these days.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Why carry 3 catchers on the 25-man roster? Salty and Ross have been doing a good job this year so far. Saltys offense has been a lot better this year too. I dont agree with changing things that are currently working.

    Ellsbury, Nava and Vic (when healthy) have been pretty solid and Carp has been about as good a bench guy you can ask for. Gomes is struggling, but still has a good OBP.
    Not going to get anything for Gomes and not much either for Carp, being bench guys. Ells is going nowhere and I dont think you can move Vic right now either without losing your azz. Also, I like Nava, who has improved every time hes got a chance here. Hes under control for 4.5 more years.

    I agree that some of these kids are ready, but, IMO, that doesnt mean they should automatically come up and the Sox should move guys that are doing good because of that.

     

     



    Great points, but trading guys is not giving them away. 

     

    If we trade Salty for a player that is better, what's wrong with that?

    The drop off from a Salty/Ross tandem to a Ross/Lava tandem must be weighed vs the other positional gain we get in return for the trade.

    I realize that the chances are a trade of Salty would most likely be for a prospect, so we gain nothing for 2013, but there is a chance we trade for a player that fills a greater need.

     




    Oh, Ive always said if it makes the team better, than thats a good trade. My point was I dont think we would get something that would make us better right now to replace Salty, which is what we would need IMO. We would be weaker at the position. I think with Vasquez climbing the ranks, Lavarnway would be the better one to trade IMO. He would net us a much better return and it wouldnt matter if the player helped us this year or in the near future.

     



    A team that needs a catcher right now or a bat vs RHPs would give more for Salty than Lava. A team building for the future would prefer Lava, unless they would extend Salty.

    Since Salty is a FA after this year, his value is lessened, but how many teams have a catcher with a .912 OPS vs RHPs this year? (2) or an OPS of ,808 vs RHPs since 2012? (4) or an overall OPS better than .756? (10)

    Desperation makes GMs overpay at the deadline.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Why carry 3 catchers on the 25-man roster? Salty and Ross have been doing a good job this year so far. Saltys offense has been a lot better this year too. I dont agree with changing things that are currently working.

    Ellsbury, Nava and Vic (when healthy) have been pretty solid and Carp has been about as good a bench guy you can ask for. Gomes is struggling, but still has a good OBP.
    Not going to get anything for Gomes and not much either for Carp, being bench guys. Ells is going nowhere and I dont think you can move Vic right now either without losing your azz. Also, I like Nava, who has improved every time hes got a chance here. Hes under control for 4.5 more years.

    I agree that some of these kids are ready, but, IMO, that doesnt mean they should automatically come up and the Sox should move guys that are doing good because of that.

     

     



    Great points, but trading guys is not giving them away. 

     

    If we trade Salty for a player that is better, what's wrong with that?

    The drop off from a Salty/Ross tandem to a Ross/Lava tandem must be weighed vs the other positional gain we get in return for the trade.

    I realize that the chances are a trade of Salty would most likely be for a prospect, so we gain nothing for 2013, but there is a chance we trade for a player that fills a greater need.

     




    Oh, Ive always said if it makes the team better, than thats a good trade. My point was I dont think we would get something that would make us better right now to replace Salty, which is what we would need IMO. We would be weaker at the position. I think with Vasquez climbing the ranks, Lavarnway would be the better one to trade IMO. He would net us a much better return and it wouldnt matter if the player helped us this year or in the near future.

     

     



    A team that needs a catcher right now or a bat vs RHPs would give more for Salty than Lava. A team building for the future would prefer Lava, unless they would extend Salty.

     

    Since Salty is a FA after this year, his value is lessened, but how many teams have a catcher with a .912 OPS vs RHPs this year? (2) or an OPS of ,808 vs RHPs since 2012? (4) or an overall OPS better than .756? (10)

    Desperation makes GMs overpay at the deadline.




    very true. They could ask for more depending on the desperation.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    Those are different reasons, but not different levels. Laughing

    Sorry man, I just think that 'many levels' expression is a little overused these days.



    1) Psychological

    2) Tactical

    3) Logical

    4) Is this what you had in mind?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    We have a surplus of talent. I'm trading someone. For prospects or a better starting pitcher. Cliff Lee would do just fine thank you.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

    We have a surplus of talent. I'm trading someone. For prospects or a better starting pitcher. Cliff Lee would do just fine thank you.



    I wouldnt give prospects for Lee. They'd have to pay a big chunk.

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    Those are different reasons, but not different levels. Laughing

    Sorry man, I just think that 'many levels' expression is a little overused these days.

     



    1) Psychological

     

    2) Tactical

    3) Logical

    4) Is this what you had in mind?



    Something like that.  But I'm not really buying the psychological part, and tactical and logical are close to the same thing.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    OK, maybe "many levels" was a poor choice of words, but there are a few aspects that I see as being wrong with the current picture (Drew at SS and the far superior SS at 3B). I get the reason that Drew never has played 3B. I'm not upset over the situation. I was more concerned about JBJ in LF and Ells in CF than this.

    I just find it a bit odd that we may have 2 of the finest up the middle defenders in MLB (Iggy & JBJ), and when they get to play, we play them out of position.

    I get the reasons why, but I don't agree.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Iglesias should be the shortstop. He was sent to Pawtucket despite his sterling play simply because Drew was signed for big bucks. Middlebrooks will be back soon.  Being younger and more athletic than Drew , Jose most likely could better adapt to playing third. Anyway , it is not a big deal.  As far as Ellsbury and Bradley , who plays center and who plays left is insignificant. Either way , you have excellent defense. The real question is why are talented young players like Iglesias , Bradley and Lavarnway in Pawtucket while the Sox play mediocre veterans like Drew , Gomes and Ross ? And pay them a whole lot more money than the young guys get. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Because those rookies have proved little, if anything in MLB. Drew is an above average proven MLB SS. I liked the Ross signing to give lavarnway the work he needed in AAA. Bradley played 43 games in AA last year. The Sox got these players (Ross, Drew) because none of those prospects were deemed "ready" yet, nor did they prove that they were last year.

    They are now just looking like they might be ready. That doesnt mean you move the other guys, who are doing a good job, just so you can see if they truly are ready. Their time will come in 2014 when they will most likely all be starting in MLB.

    You dont move a veteran off position when hes doing good, for a rookie. Agree or not, the Vet has paid his dues. 3b isnt going to hurt Iggy, neither is LF or RF going to hurt JBJ. Like I said, I would guess that they both will be at their normal positions in 2014 or sooner depending what happens to this years team.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    I like having guys ready to step in from AAA if needed because of injury but we have some surpluses and a couple of situations where we can improve the team in my opinion, with the guys down in AAA. Look closely at JBJ and Lavarnway and the guys they would potentially replace. And pull the trigger when necessary. Lavarnway has not been striking out much and he has been taking the ball to RF a lot. He has made the adjustments he needed to succeed in mlb. And Salty can maybe be sold high right now. History has shown over and over that he will fade. And David Ross has not been the same since coming back from injury. Give him more time on the DL or something because he has been striking out over and over.

    JBJ has an incredible record of success so far in the minors and spring training, versus only 30 AB or so in the majors and he is clearly a great defender. Look particularly at his OBP. Consistently tremendous. Victorino is struggling with back issues and such and we probably have seen his best work so far considering his health. The guy is a good player and we probably can't get much for him anyway but if someone wants Nava real bad, or will offer something decent for Victorino, Carp or Gomes we should consider it. Is Brentz not similar to a Gomes at this point? Can't Hazelbacker or even a Hassan provide deep back up if 2 or 3 OF get hurt? If we prefer to keep Gomes fine, keep him but trade someone. We are going to lose guys in the rule 5 draft anyway unless we trade them in 2 or 3 for 1 deals to upgrade in needed areas. 

    We have at least 4 solid catchers who can step in and catch well for this team now. Look at Vasquez's numbers. And Lavarnway's. And probably the best catching prospect we have is #5 on the depth chart ( Swihart ).

    I say pull the trigger. It injects new life into this team and we probably will even improve with these changes IMO.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Gomes has had his shot. It isn't working. He gets way to many AB. That is going to change soon.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Were in 1st place, have great chemistry going here, and everyone is talking about trading guys so the UNPROVEN rookies can play? Sorry, I dont see any logic in that what so ever. NONE.

    The kids are there if they are NEEDED this year. Like JBJ being called up for Vic, then probably sent back down. Like lavarnway for Ross, then sent back down. If the Sox had faith in Lavarnway they wouldnt have signed Ross. Next year is their time. If there is a major injury or they are out of contention, then Ok. Trading someone like Salty, Ellsbury or Drew while in 1st place and doing good because you think the kids "might" be ready is incompetent at best.

    Vasquez is by far the best catching prospect and I wouldnt want even him stepping in right now. there is no need to inject "new life" into this team. The full time players are doing fine.

    I agree Gomes is not doing well, but hes a very PT player who has a contract that nobody will want.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Southpaw....just got online...wife+I went to the coast for a bit.  I'm glad I'm anonymous...huh?  I really didn't intend to make enemies....wow.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to ampoule's comment:

    Southpaw....just got online...wife+I went to the coast for a bit.  I'm glad I'm anonymous...huh?  I really didn't intend to make enemies....wow.




    oh, the peskypole thing?

     

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