A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    OK, maybe "many levels" was a poor choice of words, but there are a few aspects that I see as being wrong with the current picture (Drew at SS and the far superior SS at 3B). I get the reason that Drew never has played 3B. I'm not upset over the situation. I was more concerned about JBJ in LF and Ells in CF than this.

    I just find it a bit odd that we may have 2 of the finest up the middle defenders in MLB (Iggy & JBJ), and when they get to play, we play them out of position.

    I get the reasons why, but I don't agree.

     



    You keep saying Iggy is "far superior", but I haven't seen any evidence to support that.

     

    Drew's defense certainly isn't hurting the Sox any.

    If it aint broke, don't fix it.

    Especially if it's just to make one rookie player happy.

    Iggy is isn't going to be a FT 3rd baseman, but doesn't having him get some experience at that position make him more valuable?

     



    There's plenty of evidence.

     

    It's not to make the rookie happy (confident). I listed that as one of many "levels".

    No, playing 3B is not increasing his value. It is diminishing it.



    The fact Bogy has been playing strictly SS at Portland tells you the Sox were about to give up on Iggy before the season which is why they got Drew.  Now that Iggy has been hitting it should be interesting to see if Bogy remains there. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

     

    Gomes has had his shot. It isn't working. He gets way to many AB. That is going to change soon.

     



    We've only played about a thrid of a season, and Gomes has sat many games.

     

    This guy gets on base vs LHPs more than almost anyone on the team, even this year. We stink vs LHPs. We'll get worse if Gomes goes.



    Gomes OBP against LHP is 318 and dropping rapidly moon.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    OK, maybe "many levels" was a poor choice of words, but there are a few aspects that I see as being wrong with the current picture (Drew at SS and the far superior SS at 3B). I get the reason that Drew never has played 3B. I'm not upset over the situation. I was more concerned about JBJ in LF and Ells in CF than this.

    I just find it a bit odd that we may have 2 of the finest up the middle defenders in MLB (Iggy & JBJ), and when they get to play, we play them out of position.

    I get the reasons why, but I don't agree.

     



    You keep saying Iggy is "far superior", but I haven't seen any evidence to support that.

     

    Drew's defense certainly isn't hurting the Sox any.

    If it aint broke, don't fix it.

    Especially if it's just to make one rookie player happy.

    Iggy is isn't going to be a FT 3rd baseman, but doesn't having him get some experience at that position make him more valuable?

     



    There's plenty of evidence.

     

    It's not to make the rookie happy (confident). I listed that as one of many "levels".

    No, playing 3B is not increasing his value. It is diminishing it.



    Care to name a game the Sox lost, due to Drew's defense?

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to BurritoT-'s comment:

    http://www.raysindex.com/2013/05/rays-prospect-is-too-sick-to-play-baseball-but-not-too-sick-to-get-kicked-out-of-a-strip-club.html

     

    Good Link on a 2010 number 17 pick (first round)..... what a mess.  A bit like John Curtice (1997)




    Thats funny, the Rays luck with picks can't last forever :)

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from lasitter. Show lasitter's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I wouldnt give prospects for Lee. They'd have to pay a big chunk.


    Who wouildn't love to have him, but at what cost?

    And as always, you never know how long a single arm will be great vs encounter injuries.

    The other thing I look at, aside from how many EXTRA games you'd win with a pitcher, is how many times that same pitcher could beat you during a season. Since he's playing for an NL team, the answer is "not a lot".

    I think we could do a much better job with Lee's money in pitching depth or position player depth.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Were in 1st place, have great chemistry going here, and everyone is talking about trading guys so the UNPROVEN rookies can play? Sorry, I dont see any logic in that what so ever. NONE.

    The kids are there if they are NEEDED this year. Like JBJ being called up for Vic, then probably sent back down. Like lavarnway for Ross, then sent back down. If the Sox had faith in Lavarnway they wouldnt have signed Ross. Next year is their time. If there is a major injury or they are out of contention, then Ok. Trading someone like Salty, Ellsbury or Drew while in 1st place and doing good because you think the kids "might" be ready is incompetent at best.

    Vasquez is by far the best catching prospect and I wouldnt want even him stepping in right now. there is no need to inject "new life" into this team. The full time players are doing fine.

    I agree Gomes is not doing well, but hes a very PT player who has a contract that nobody will want.

     



    I have no problem whatsoever agreeing to disagreeing with you ex. I conceed that my scenario is not likely. It is the kind of approach conservative teams often delay and we have seen that from the sox over the years a lot. They wait forever before bringing up guys to stay. They rarely take a chance and just give a rookie a slot aas do teams like Minnesota and there is a reason for that. We can afford to wait longer obviously. With certain talent though, just bring the kid up. Could Fred Lynn play when they brought him up? Jim rice ...etc. Sometimes it is best to just let the kid play.

     

    When I see numbers like what JBJ put up last year, from a guy who may actually be our best OF defender also, and I see it continue this year ( on top of 2 college WS championships BTW ), I consider that sort of guy to be appropriate to bring up. Except for the power number considerations, JBJ has put up Mike trout type numbers in the minors. Bryce Harper type numbers. The kind of numbers Ellsbury put up ( actually better ). And he has done it almost immediately since coming back from an injury in college. He stepped into the minors and immediately kicked fanny last year and is topping that this year in Spring Training and almost 100 AB in AAA. 

    Even in his SSS of 38 plate appearances in mlb this year and his horrible BA he still got on base at a .263 clip. If the kid hit at all he would have been our best lead off option. He has great defensive skill AND he might just be our best OBP option before year end if we actually bring him up. 

    Lots of analysts have said that if the Angels had brought up Trout earlier last year they would have made the playoffs. Sometimes in management you just get out of the way.




    First off champ, Im Sorry to disappoint you but Im not expitch. As much as you would like to believe everything that comes out of your mouth is true, its not. So if you keep referring to me as him, just dont bother talking to me at all. Its pretty self righteous and disrepectful of you to actually think you know for a fact that Im a guy who is about 30yrs older than me and who was pitching at USC before I was even thought of yet. So please just stop making a fool of yourself in regards to that. OK then, with that said...

    We already schooled geo on when the Sox bring the kids up. He claimed they wait forever as well...The sox have brought most all of their prospects up with this regime at the age of 22-23. Thats pretty young and age appropriate with most teams when it comes to prospects. They dont need to bring kids up before they are ready like other teams. We saw what happened to the Twins this year with their CF Aaron Hicks. Like JBJ, he looked good in ST but had about 80 more minor league games in AA than JBJ, so they gave him the job.  They just took a more aggressive approach and "took a chance", like you suggest. Hes batting 161 with a 238 OBP. Yeah, that worked out well, huh? Same thing was happening with JBJ until they sent him back down to complete his development. He only had 43 games at AA and we saw he was over matched at the MLB level. College is not nearly the same as MLB pitching and theres going to be a good learning curve there regardless.

    We didnt need to keep JBJ up here to try and figure it out. We could send him to an environment that was better suited for more development. Its easier to develop and work on things when your not under pressure to perform like in MLB. Hes just 23. Thats hardly holding anyone back. When hes ready and its his time, he will be here for good. Sometimes when your ready you might have to wait a little longer because the player and the teams timeline doesnt always match up. Like youk and Boggs. Hes doing better and will get his shot again, and if he proves himself, then maybe he will stay.

    Tell me, who do you sit for an unproven JBJ? Nava? who has clearly earned a spot and paid his dues? Ells? aint happening. Victorino? when he returns, he will be back in RF. I hope the kid does good when he comes up here and Im pulling for him. Im just not sure breaking up whats working just to take a chance on him is the right way. He will have a few days to make his case with Vic out. Like they say Boom, things usually work themselves out.

     

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

     

    We have a surplus of talent. I'm trading someone. For prospects or a better starting pitcher. Cliff Lee would do just fine thank you.

     



    I wouldnt give prospects for Lee. They'd have to pay a big chunk.

     

     



    I'd absolutely give up prospects for Lee, and pay all of his salary. Just not a lot of prospects!

    Think about it. He is one of the best pitchers in baseball, available on a 3 year deal. It's expensive but he has a proven track record right there with anyone in recent years. He can go long and rest the pen. Give you a lot of innings and absolutely give you a great chance of making the playoffs and even winning them with this team. And he's optimized against the Yanks.

    I'd seriously look at any deal involving Cliff Lee.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Seems we're talking trades today, so I'll offer a Bay Area update from local papers concerning Giants: down one starter and one reliever, called up a rookie to start yesterday (who lost) and is really "hurting" for middle relief according to one of the Baseball Tonight guys.  Maybe this is where BC dangles "Ace" and maybe tries to expand.  Would love to get a young/future starter or power hitter. 

    I am really enjoying all the pro vs. con of seeking trades this morning.  This is where I fall: though I empathize with the status quo view, I keep coming back to are we good enough to win a WS with this team?  In my humble opinion, no, not without two more pieces: a solid starter and a middle of the order power hitter.  So any trade that gets us closer to that, I'm for.  As others have pointed out, we seem to have some surplus and some trade pieces that others might need at the deadline.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to Critter23's comment:

    Seems we're talking trades today, so I'll offer a Bay Area update from local papers concerning Giants: down one starter and one reliever, called up a rookie to start yesterday (who lost) and is really "hurting" for middle relief according to one of the Baseball Tonight guys.  Maybe this is where BC dangles "Ace" and maybe tries to expand.  Would love to get a young/future starter or power hitter. 

    I am really enjoying all the pro vs. con of seeking trades this morning.  This is where I fall: though I empathize with the status quo view, I keep coming back to are we good enough to win a WS with this team?  In my humble opinion, no, not without two more pieces: a solid starter and a middle of the order power hitter.  So any trade that gets us closer to that, I'm for.  As others have pointed out, we seem to have some surplus and some trade pieces that others might need at the deadline.




    I would try for a starter now, and see what Middy does when he returns. If Middy just cant get it going, maybe make a move for a bat then. Either way, I would see what kind of a deal I could pull of with SF right now for either or.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Were in 1st place, have great chemistry going here, and everyone is talking about trading guys so the UNPROVEN rookies can play? Sorry, I dont see any logic in that what so ever. NONE.

    The kids are there if they are NEEDED this year. Like JBJ being called up for Vic, then probably sent back down. Like lavarnway for Ross, then sent back down. If the Sox had faith in Lavarnway they wouldnt have signed Ross. Next year is their time. If there is a major injury or they are out of contention, then Ok. Trading someone like Salty, Ellsbury or Drew while in 1st place and doing good because you think the kids "might" be ready is incompetent at best.

    Vasquez is by far the best catching prospect and I wouldnt want even him stepping in right now. there is no need to inject "new life" into this team. The full time players are doing fine.

    I agree Gomes is not doing well, but hes a very PT player who has a contract that nobody will want.

     



    I have no problem whatsoever agreeing to disagreeing with you ex. I conceed that my scenario is not likely. It is the kind of approach conservative teams often delay and we have seen that from the sox over the years a lot. They wait forever before bringing up guys to stay. They rarely take a chance and just give a rookie a slot aas do teams like Minnesota and there is a reason for that. We can afford to wait longer obviously. With certain talent though, just bring the kid up. Could Fred Lynn play when they brought him up? Jim rice ...etc. Sometimes it is best to just let the kid play.

     

    When I see numbers like what JBJ put up last year, from a guy who may actually be our best OF defender also, and I see it continue this year ( on top of 2 college WS championships BTW ), I consider that sort of guy to be appropriate to bring up. Except for the power number considerations, JBJ has put up Mike trout type numbers in the minors. Bryce Harper type numbers. The kind of numbers Ellsbury put up ( actually better ). And he has done it almost immediately since coming back from an injury in college. He stepped into the minors and immediately kicked fanny last year and is topping that this year in Spring Training and almost 100 AB in AAA. 

    Even in his SSS of 38 plate appearances in mlb this year and his horrible BA he still got on base at a .263 clip. If the kid hit at all he would have been our best lead off option. He has great defensive skill AND he might just be our best OBP option before year end if we actually bring him up. 

    Lots of analysts have said that if the Angels had brought up Trout earlier last year they would have made the playoffs. Sometimes in management you just get out of the way.

     




    First off champ, Im Sorry to disappoint you but Im not expitch. As much as you would like to believe everything that comes out of your mouth is true, its not. So if you keep referring to me as him, just dont bother talking to me at all. Its pretty self righteous and disrepectful of you to actually think you know for a fact that Im a guy who is about 30yrs older than me and who was pitching at USC before I was even thought of yet. So please just stop making a fool of yourself in regards to that. OK then, with that said...

     

    We already schooled geo on when the Sox bring the kids up. He claimed they wait forever as well...The sox have brought most all of their prospects up with this regime at the age of 22-23. Thats pretty young and age appropriate with most teams when it comes to prospects. They dont need to bring kids up before they are ready like other teams. We saw what happened to the Twins this year with their CF Aaron Hicks. Like JBJ, he looked good in ST but had about 80 more minor league games in AA than JBJ, so they gave him the job.  They just took a more aggressive approach and "took a chance", like you suggest. Hes batting 161 with a 238 OBP. Yeah, that worked out well, huh? Same thing was happening with JBJ until they sent him back down to complete his development. He only had 43 games at AA and we saw he was over matched at the MLB level. College is not nearly the same as MLB pitching and theres going to be a good learning curve there regardless.

    We didnt need to keep JBJ up here to try and figure it out. We could send him to an environment that was better suited for more development. Its easier to develop and work on things when your not under pressure to perform like in MLB. Hes just 23. Thats hardly holding anyone back. When hes ready and its his time, he will be here for good. Sometimes when your ready you might have to wait a little longer because the player and the teams timeline doesnt always match up. Like youk and Boggs. Hes doing better and will get his shot again, and if he proves himself, then maybe he will stay.

    Tell me, who do you sit for an unproven JBJ? Nava? who has clearly earned a spot and paid his dues? Ells? aint happening. Victorino? when he returns, he will be back in RF. I hope the kid does good when he comes up here and Im pulling for him. Im just not sure breaking up whats working just to take a chance on him is the right way. He will have a few days to make his case with Vic out. Like they say Boom, things usually work themselves out.

     

     



    I didn't mean to call you ex, southpaw, even though you are absolutely correct in that I do think that is who you are. It just came out. Very similar writing style, and thought process and you just happen to know everything about him and he's such a nice guy and OH so knowledgeable. Spare me please. Oh, did I mention that you just happened to get an email from him and he is doing just great with a new book out...etc. What a crock. Both of you supposedly ex pitchers...etc. At what point does it start to add up for the people here?

    I didn't say calling up JBJ was a conventional choice or even that the team would chose to do that. The plan probably is that when Victorino comes back he probably goes down. I'm saying I think the kid is ready now and I hope he just explodes on the scene and we make room for him because I think he can help. 

    Is it all that crazy to think that maybe he can do better than Jonny Gomes and his lifetime .242 BA? Gomes is supposed to hit HR at least and he hasn't even done that yet much. Wonderful guy. I like him a lot, but he is not that good an option. So far the best thing about him is his fielding! And that is not as projected.

    And Victorino has much better splits against LH pitching than RH pitching. Both guys have flaws. We just haven't seen Victorino's much yet. And he is playing with a bad back. That is not a good scenario. JBJ has much better splits and so far at least in the minors he has been tearing it up offensively and defensively. 

    At least trade Gomes. It hasn't worked. Play Victorino against LH pitching instead of Gomes, along with JBJ and Ellsbury. Much better team defense and splits potentially. Gomes is hitting .151 versus LH pitchers so far ( which is supposed to be his only strength ) and only .190 against RH. With a total of 2 HR. 121 plate appearances. JBJ had 1/3 the mlb plate appearances and people are saying he can't cut it in the majors citing that as evidence.

    Play the kid.

     
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    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    After this year's draft we are going to have one heck of a farm system. We have the trade chips and we are going to have to use them or lose them at some point. I say trade some secondary pieces to take us over the top this year. We have one of the top 5 farms in baseball already according to BA. And now we have the #7 pick also. We are one of the few teams with surplus starting pitching prospects and catching prospects. Guys like Hassan, Kalish, Hazelbacker etc...are gone baby gone one way or the other. Shaw, Almanzar, Britton...etc. Package them up and do a trade. Throw a stud in there also like a Ranaudo or someone and just maybe you can land a Cliff Lee as long as you are willing to pay their salary. 

     

    I'm all for it.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

     

    Gomes has had his shot. It isn't working. He gets way to many AB. That is going to change soon.

     



    We've only played about a thrid of a season, and Gomes has sat many games.

     

    This guy gets on base vs LHPs more than almost anyone on the team, even this year. We stink vs LHPs. We'll get worse if Gomes goes.




    Gomes is batting .168    His OBP is due to the walks and HBPs. That is most likely just accidental. He cannot maintain a good OBP unless he starts hitting.  In fact, his OBP is steadily dropping. You should reassess your evaluation.  The stats are always changing.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Don't play the kid--or the other one either.  I like Bradley and Iglesias a lot, but the Sox have been winning without them (and now, with Middlebrooks on the DL, with one of them).  One of the reasons for the great chemistry on this team is the veterans are shown some respect, unlike the way Bobby V handled the situation with Youkilis last year.  Thus Farrell announced in early April the SS job was Drew's when he returned, and Drew has repaid the confidence with excellent fielding, including just one error on the season--very unusual for a SS.  Plus maybe his hitting is coming around, and there can be little doubt his hitting potential is greater than Iglesias.  And let's not forget Iglesias had a really good shot at showing his stuff on the big club last year and bombed.  That's why Drew was acquired, but the really good news for Iglesias is Drew only has a one year contract.  Iglesias needs to focus on getting better and getting the repetitions at whatever level he is assigned to play. 

    As is typical for all MLB teams, injuries are giving new opportunities to both Iglesias and Bradley, and that's fine with me.  But I also think right now the best outfield when Vic returns is Vic, Ellsbury, and Nava (and occasionally, sadly, Gomes).  Bradley surely recognizes that Ellsbury is even more of a one year guy than Drew because chances are very slim Ellsbury will return next year.  So Bradley can spend at least some time at AAA, where he never played before this year, and prepare to the the Sox starting centerfielder.  This is going to come as a shock to some of you, but even Ted Williams had to put in some time at AAA. 

    I say again, I do not understand this constant harping that Iglesias and Bradley must play every day in Boston and do so immediately.  Whatever Cherington did last year and then in the offseason sure looks to be working.  The whole team is playing together and supporting each other.  A bad team has been transformed into a good team.  And, hopefully, the young guys like Bradley and Iglesias will make the Sox even better next year or even later this summer. 

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Were in 1st place, have great chemistry going here, and everyone is talking about trading guys so the UNPROVEN rookies can play? Sorry, I dont see any logic in that what so ever. NONE.

    The kids are there if they are NEEDED this year. Like JBJ being called up for Vic, then probably sent back down. Like lavarnway for Ross, then sent back down. If the Sox had faith in Lavarnway they wouldnt have signed Ross. Next year is their time. If there is a major injury or they are out of contention, then Ok. Trading someone like Salty, Ellsbury or Drew while in 1st place and doing good because you think the kids "might" be ready is incompetent at best.

    Vasquez is by far the best catching prospect and I wouldnt want even him stepping in right now. there is no need to inject "new life" into this team. The full time players are doing fine.

    I agree Gomes is not doing well, but hes a very PT player who has a contract that nobody will want.

     



    I have no problem whatsoever agreeing to disagreeing with you ex. I conceed that my scenario is not likely. It is the kind of approach conservative teams often delay and we have seen that from the sox over the years a lot. They wait forever before bringing up guys to stay. They rarely take a chance and just give a rookie a slot aas do teams like Minnesota and there is a reason for that. We can afford to wait longer obviously. With certain talent though, just bring the kid up. Could Fred Lynn play when they brought him up? Jim rice ...etc. Sometimes it is best to just let the kid play.

     

    When I see numbers like what JBJ put up last year, from a guy who may actually be our best OF defender also, and I see it continue this year ( on top of 2 college WS championships BTW ), I consider that sort of guy to be appropriate to bring up. Except for the power number considerations, JBJ has put up Mike trout type numbers in the minors. Bryce Harper type numbers. The kind of numbers Ellsbury put up ( actually better ). And he has done it almost immediately since coming back from an injury in college. He stepped into the minors and immediately kicked fanny last year and is topping that this year in Spring Training and almost 100 AB in AAA. 

    Even in his SSS of 38 plate appearances in mlb this year and his horrible BA he still got on base at a .263 clip. If the kid hit at all he would have been our best lead off option. He has great defensive skill AND he might just be our best OBP option before year end if we actually bring him up. 

    Lots of analysts have said that if the Angels had brought up Trout earlier last year they would have made the playoffs. Sometimes in management you just get out of the way.

     




    First off champ, Im Sorry to disappoint you but Im not expitch. As much as you would like to believe everything that comes out of your mouth is true, its not. So if you keep referring to me as him, just dont bother talking to me at all. Its pretty self righteous and disrepectful of you to actually think you know for a fact that Im a guy who is about 30yrs older than me and who was pitching at USC before I was even thought of yet. So please just stop making a fool of yourself in regards to that. OK then, with that said...

     

    We already schooled geo on when the Sox bring the kids up. He claimed they wait forever as well...The sox have brought most all of their prospects up with this regime at the age of 22-23. Thats pretty young and age appropriate with most teams when it comes to prospects. They dont need to bring kids up before they are ready like other teams. We saw what happened to the Twins this year with their CF Aaron Hicks. Like JBJ, he looked good in ST but had about 80 more minor league games in AA than JBJ, so they gave him the job.  They just took a more aggressive approach and "took a chance", like you suggest. Hes batting 161 with a 238 OBP. Yeah, that worked out well, huh? Same thing was happening with JBJ until they sent him back down to complete his development. He only had 43 games at AA and we saw he was over matched at the MLB level. College is not nearly the same as MLB pitching and theres going to be a good learning curve there regardless.

    We didnt need to keep JBJ up here to try and figure it out. We could send him to an environment that was better suited for more development. Its easier to develop and work on things when your not under pressure to perform like in MLB. Hes just 23. Thats hardly holding anyone back. When hes ready and its his time, he will be here for good. Sometimes when your ready you might have to wait a little longer because the player and the teams timeline doesnt always match up. Like youk and Boggs. Hes doing better and will get his shot again, and if he proves himself, then maybe he will stay.

    Tell me, who do you sit for an unproven JBJ? Nava? who has clearly earned a spot and paid his dues? Ells? aint happening. Victorino? when he returns, he will be back in RF. I hope the kid does good when he comes up here and Im pulling for him. Im just not sure breaking up whats working just to take a chance on him is the right way. He will have a few days to make his case with Vic out. Like they say Boom, things usually work themselves out.

     

     

     



    I didn't mean to call you ex, southpaw, even though you are absolutely correct in that I do think that is who you are. It just came out. Very similar writing style, and thought process and you just happen to know everything about him and he's such a nice guy and OH so knowledgeable. Spare me please. Oh, did I mention that you just happened to get an email from him and he is doing just great with a new book out...etc. What a crock. Both of you supposedly ex pitchers...etc. At what point does it start to add up for the people here?

     

    I didn't say calling up JBJ was a conventional choice or even that the team would chose to do that. The plan probably is that when Victorino comes back he probably goes down. I'm saying I think the kid is ready now and I hope he just explodes on the scene and we make room for him because I think he can help. 

    Is it all that crazy to think that maybe he can do better than Jonny Gomes and his lifetime .242 BA? Gomes is supposed to hit HR at least and he hasn't even done that yet much. Wonderful guy. I like him a lot, but he is not that good an option. So far the best thing about him is his fielding! And that is not as projected.

    And Victorino has much better splits against LH pitching than RH pitching. Both guys have flaws. We just haven't seen Victorino's much yet. And he is playing with a bad back. That is not a good scenario. JBJ has much better splits and so far at least in the minors he has been tearing it up offensively and defensively. 

    At least trade Gomes. It hasn't worked. Play Victorino against LH pitching instead of Gomes, along with JBJ and Ellsbury. Much better team defense and splits potentially. Gomes is hitting .151 versus LH pitchers so far ( which is supposed to be his only strength ) and only .190 against RH. With a total of 2 HR. 121 plate appearances. JBJ had 1/3 the mlb plate appearances and people are saying he can't cut it in the majors citing that as evidence.

    Play the kid.




    Ok Boom, Im not going to go back and forth with you. If you want to believe your right, then go ahead. I just cant help but laugh at you though. I never pitched past little league and ex is about my dads age. And his book Rod Dedeaux "Master of the Diamond" has been a good read so far. You should check it out. Your self righteous and ignorant attitude blinds you Boom. If you look back at the salty thread, there are posts from me and ex basically at the same time. Kinda hard to do by one person. If you actually thought about this logically and didnt believe the little voices in your head, you would see that Im not him. But judging from your last few posts, logic probably is not part of this equation for you.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    Don't play the kid--or the other one either.  I like Bradley and Iglesias a lot, but the Sox have been winning without them (and now, with Middlebrooks on the DL, with one of them).  One of the reasons for the great chemistry on this team is the veterans are shown some respect, unlike the way Bobby V handled the situation with Youkilis last year.  Thus Farrell announced in early April the SS job was Drew's when he returned, and Drew has repaid the confidence with excellent fielding, including just one error on the season--very unusual for a SS.  Plus maybe his hitting is coming around, and there can be little doubt his hitting potential is greater than Iglesias.  And let's not forget Iglesias had a really good shot at showing his stuff on the big club last year and bombed.  That's why Drew was acquired, but the really good news for Iglesias is Drew only has a one year contract.  Iglesias needs to focus on getting better and getting the repetitions at whatever level he is assigned to play. 

    As is typical for all MLB teams, injuries are giving new opportunities to both Iglesias and Bradley, and that's fine with me.  But I also think right now the best outfield when Vic returns is Vic, Ellsbury, and Nava (and occasionally, sadly, Gomes).  Bradley surely recognizes that Ellsbury is even more of a one year guy than Drew because chances are very slim Ellsbury will return next year.  So Bradley can spend at least some time at AAA, where he never played before this year, and prepare to the the Sox starting centerfielder.  This is going to come as a shock to some of you, but even Ted Williams had to put in some time at AAA. 

    I say again, I do not understand this constant harping that Iglesias and Bradley must play every day in Boston and do so immediately.  Whatever Cherington did last year and then in the offseason sure looks to be working.  The whole team is playing together and supporting each other.  A bad team has been transformed into a good team.  And, hopefully, the young guys like Bradley and Iglesias will make the Sox even better next year or even later this summer. 

     




    I agree.

    Drew is has an 871 OPS for May and the team overall chemistry is great. They have guys like Middy who really hasnt contributed much, but they are still winning. Its foolish to disrupt that if its not needed. you dont make a move just to make one when it doesnt make sense. Iggy and JBJ will get MLB playing time as needed this year. Hopefully they will take over full time next year. makes me question some peoples motivation here. Why fix whats not broken. Come July we will see where we stand and what moves need to be made. Right now, were fine..

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    The fact Bogy has been playing strictly SS at Portland tells you the Sox were about to give up on Iggy before the season which is why they got Drew.  

     

    It means nothing. Why aren't the Sox moving Marrero, Vinicio, and others to different positions if the red carpet is laid out for Bogy?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    There's plenty of evidence.

     

    It's not to make the rookie happy (confident). I listed that as one of many "levels".

    No, playing 3B is not increasing his value. It is diminishing it.

     



     

    Care to name a game the Sox lost, due to Drew's defense?

     

    I've counted 8 plays Drew did not make that I felt Iggy would have made. There's another 9 I think were close calls. That's less that I thought it might be.

    No one play wins or loses any game, so your question is pointless.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    Don't play the kid--or the other one either.  I like Bradley and Iglesias a lot, but the Sox have been winning without them (and now, with Middlebrooks on the DL, with one of them).  One of the reasons for the great chemistry on this team is the veterans are shown some respect, unlike the way Bobby V handled the situation with Youkilis last year.  Thus Farrell announced in early April the SS job was Drew's when he returned, and Drew has repaid the confidence with excellent fielding, including just one error on the season--very unusual for a SS.  Plus maybe his hitting is coming around, and there can be little doubt his hitting potential is greater than Iglesias.  And let's not forget Iglesias had a really good shot at showing his stuff on the big club last year and bombed.  That's why Drew was acquired, but the really good news for Iglesias is Drew only has a one year contract.  Iglesias needs to focus on getting better and getting the repetitions at whatever level he is assigned to play. 

    As is typical for all MLB teams, injuries are giving new opportunities to both Iglesias and Bradley, and that's fine with me.  But I also think right now the best outfield when Vic returns is Vic, Ellsbury, and Nava (and occasionally, sadly, Gomes).  Bradley surely recognizes that Ellsbury is even more of a one year guy than Drew because chances are very slim Ellsbury will return next year.  So Bradley can spend at least some time at AAA, where he never played before this year, and prepare to the the Sox starting centerfielder.  This is going to come as a shock to some of you, but even Ted Williams had to put in some time at AAA. 

    I say again, I do not understand this constant harping that Iglesias and Bradley must play every day in Boston and do so immediately.  Whatever Cherington did last year and then in the offseason sure looks to be working.  The whole team is playing together and supporting each other.  A bad team has been transformed into a good team.  And, hopefully, the young guys like Bradley and Iglesias will make the Sox even better next year or even later this summer. 

     



    JBJ has a .460 or so OBP in AAA ball, after one heck of a year last year and a stupendous spring training and he is probably the best defender we have in the OF. When guys put up off the charts numbers consistently, just maybe they are onto something.

    I am willing to roll the dice on that kid. Some guys do not need a lot of time in AAA ball. When those guys arise, play them. I bet Ted Williams didn't spend much time at all in AAA ball. If any.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    I just looked up Ted Williams's career OBP in mlb. An ungodly .482. Unbelieveable. That is his career number! His walk to strikeout ratio was almost 3-1.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

     

    Don't play the kid--or the other one either.  I like Bradley and Iglesias a lot, but the Sox have been winning without them (and now, with Middlebrooks on the DL, with one of them).  One of the reasons for the great chemistry on this team is the veterans are shown some respect, unlike the way Bobby V handled the situation with Youkilis last year.  Thus Farrell announced in early April the SS job was Drew's when he returned, and Drew has repaid the confidence with excellent fielding, including just one error on the season--very unusual for a SS.  Plus maybe his hitting is coming around, and there can be little doubt his hitting potential is greater than Iglesias.  And let's not forget Iglesias had a really good shot at showing his stuff on the big club last year and bombed.  That's why Drew was acquired, but the really good news for Iglesias is Drew only has a one year contract.  Iglesias needs to focus on getting better and getting the repetitions at whatever level he is assigned to play. 

    As is typical for all MLB teams, injuries are giving new opportunities to both Iglesias and Bradley, and that's fine with me.  But I also think right now the best outfield when Vic returns is Vic, Ellsbury, and Nava (and occasionally, sadly, Gomes).  Bradley surely recognizes that Ellsbury is even more of a one year guy than Drew because chances are very slim Ellsbury will return next year.  So Bradley can spend at least some time at AAA, where he never played before this year, and prepare to the the Sox starting centerfielder.  This is going to come as a shock to some of you, but even Ted Williams had to put in some time at AAA. 

    I say again, I do not understand this constant harping that Iglesias and Bradley must play every day in Boston and do so immediately.  Whatever Cherington did last year and then in the offseason sure looks to be working.  The whole team is playing together and supporting each other.  A bad team has been transformed into a good team.  And, hopefully, the young guys like Bradley and Iglesias will make the Sox even better next year or even later this summer. 

     

     



    JBJ has a .460 or so OBP in AAA ball, after one heck of a year last year and a stupendous spring training and he is probably the best defender we have in the OF. When guys put up off the charts numbers consistently, just maybe they are onto something.

     

    I am willing to roll the dice on that kid. Some guys do not need a lot of time in AAA ball. When those guys arise, play them. I bet Ted Williams didn't spend much time at all in AAA ball. If any.



    I agree: roll the dice and give him as long a look as we gave Pedey way back when.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

     

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

     

    Don't play the kid--or the other one either.  I like Bradley and Iglesias a lot, but the Sox have been winning without them (and now, with Middlebrooks on the DL, with one of them).  One of the reasons for the great chemistry on this team is the veterans are shown some respect, unlike the way Bobby V handled the situation with Youkilis last year.  Thus Farrell announced in early April the SS job was Drew's when he returned, and Drew has repaid the confidence with excellent fielding, including just one error on the season--very unusual for a SS.  Plus maybe his hitting is coming around, and there can be little doubt his hitting potential is greater than Iglesias.  And let's not forget Iglesias had a really good shot at showing his stuff on the big club last year and bombed.  That's why Drew was acquired, but the really good news for Iglesias is Drew only has a one year contract.  Iglesias needs to focus on getting better and getting the repetitions at whatever level he is assigned to play. 

    As is typical for all MLB teams, injuries are giving new opportunities to both Iglesias and Bradley, and that's fine with me.  But I also think right now the best outfield when Vic returns is Vic, Ellsbury, and Nava (and occasionally, sadly, Gomes).  Bradley surely recognizes that Ellsbury is even more of a one year guy than Drew because chances are very slim Ellsbury will return next year.  So Bradley can spend at least some time at AAA, where he never played before this year, and prepare to the the Sox starting centerfielder.  This is going to come as a shock to some of you, but even Ted Williams had to put in some time at AAA. 

    I say again, I do not understand this constant harping that Iglesias and Bradley must play every day in Boston and do so immediately.  Whatever Cherington did last year and then in the offseason sure looks to be working.  The whole team is playing together and supporting each other.  A bad team has been transformed into a good team.  And, hopefully, the young guys like Bradley and Iglesias will make the Sox even better next year or even later this summer. 

     

     



    JBJ has a .460 or so OBP in AAA ball, after one heck of a year last year and a stupendous spring training and he is probably the best defender we have in the OF. When guys put up off the charts numbers consistently, just maybe they are onto something.

     

    I am willing to roll the dice on that kid. Some guys do not need a lot of time in AAA ball. When those guys arise, play them. I bet Ted Williams didn't spend much time at all in AAA ball. If any.

     



    I agree: roll the dice and give him as long a look as we gave Pedey way back when.

     




    Im all for using him as much as we can when needed. Same with Iggy. But unless there is another injury, or some situation to where Nava, Ells, Vic, or Drew are out, I dont see them playing in Boston on a regular basis this year.

     
  23. This post has been removed.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Salty is on pace to cost us 19 runs defensively this year, over a projected 135 game season:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/saltaja01-field.shtml

    He's currently throwing out about 11% of all base runners now, after giving up 4 SB tonight.

    I personally think he probably has peaked offensively for the year. Trade him quick. 

    Bring up Lavarnway.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Can't wait to see what you edit in this time Burrito. Whatever it takes huh.

     
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