A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    Have faith Moon. Bogey will turn out to be a very good SS.

    I think he might become average by 2016, and possibly plus afterwards, but I doubt he ever gets to be top 10 (top 33%).

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    He only wants to play in NY or Japan. It doesnt matter what we offer him. There is no strategy here. Its not an option.

    I don't think Kuroda is an option, but he did choose to go to NY, because of the tradition and the chance to win a ring. Well, Boston has tradition and a better chance to win in 2014.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    He only wants to play in NY or Japan. It doesnt matter what we offer him. There is no strategy here. Its not an option.

    I don't think Kuroda is an option, but he did choose to go to NY, because of the tradition and the chance to win a ring. Well, Boston has tradition and a better chance to win in 2014.

    [/QUOTE]


    He would have come here last year then when we offered him more then. He said specifically its NYY or Japan.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Have faith Moon. Bogey will turn out to be a very good SS.

    I think he might become average by 2016, and possibly plus afterwards, but I doubt he ever gets to be top 10 (top 33%).

    [/QUOTE]


    Ok, I guess time will tell.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I am absolutely aware that Kuroda probably signs with the Yanks. OK, 

    OK!

    I get it. That doesn't mean I don't make a play for him though. A one year deal with one of the top pitchers in the game which actually hurts our biggest competitor when they need starting pitching badly is GOOD STRATEGY, even if we don't sign him. He wants to play for a world champion? I know just the place. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Kuroda would cost a first round draft pick to sign and that pick would go to the Yankees.  We would only get one year of pitching out of Kuroda and he faded hard for the final two months of the season.  To lose our first round draft pick and only get a starter for a year is foolish business in baseball.  The time to sign him was two years ago when he could have been had on the cheap without a draft pick.  That ship has sailed and there is no way we sign this guy and lose a pick.  Absolutely no way when we have a log jam at starting pitching going into next year with six starters.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    He only wants to play in NY or Japan. It doesnt matter what we offer him. There is no strategy here. Its not an option.

    I don't think Kuroda is an option, but he did choose to go to NY, because of the tradition and the chance to win a ring. Well, Boston has tradition and a better chance to win in 2014.

    [/QUOTE] 

    My guess is that the only situation that could have some appeal outside of New York or Japan would be LA where his daughters go to school, but he's made it clear it's the Yankees or the Carp at this point.  It's all irrelevant anyway, as the Sox aren't giving up a pick for one year of Kuroda, and as many have mentioned, it's no longer about the money with him.  He's not a realistic option at all at this point.  

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    In response to jasko2248's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    He only wants to play in NY or Japan. It doesnt matter what we offer him. There is no strategy here. Its not an option.

    I don't think Kuroda is an option, but he did choose to go to NY, because of the tradition and the chance to win a ring. Well, Boston has tradition and a better chance to win in 2014.

    [/QUOTE] 

    My guess is that the only situation that could have some appeal outside of New York or Japan would be LA where his daughters go to school, but he's made it clear it's the Yankees or the Carp at this point.  It's all irrelevant anyway, as the Sox aren't giving up a pick for one year of Kuroda, and as many have mentioned, it's no longer about the money with him.  He's not a realistic option at all at this point.  

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    Kuroda would be our number one and who is to say he wouldn't warrant a pick next year as well? And it hurts the Yanks badly. I think adding a #1 right after we won a world series is a good thing. I kind of would like to do that world series thing again. A one year deal has it's advantages and it might not even take $20 mil to do. But you guys have his mind all figured out. He apparently couldn't care in the least if we offered him and extra $5 mil. Doesn't make a bit of difference to him when he never made more than $4 mil a year in Japan. He is saying the same sorts of things our FA say. They want to stay in Boston. They don't know why they can't work out something with Boston etc...until they bail and sign with another team. He may very well want the money. We don't know if we don't try. The guy almost single handedly carried that team into the playoffs last year. Even after the late season swoon he still would have been one of our best pitchers for the year. 

    But why bother to say anything when you guys have your minds all made up.  I think Kuroda would be one of the best possible signs to help any team.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    But why bother to say anything when you guys have your minds all made up.  I think Kuroda would be one of the best possible signs to help any team.

    I'm pretty open-minded and don't mind hearing differing ideas.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    I like Kuroda and am especially excited to give the Yankees a 1st round draft pick. This is brilliant!

    I think my only worry is that he is only 38 years old, a bit too young perhaps?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    I'm open minded also Moon. We often disagree without insulting each other.  To me, the data on Tanaka and Kuroda is pretty compelling. Consistently great numbers. If we do nothing we might just as well pencil them into next year's Yankee rotation, and watch them potentially beat us again. I don't mind getting beat but not when I can do something about it. What are the Yanks going to do if either of these guys are unavailable to them. They need at least 2 starters and maybe 3. Will they go with Ervin Santana? Jimenez? Nolasco?

    The best way to beat the Yanks is to at least consider competing for the players on their roster. Make it hard for them to bring themback. They do it to us all the time. It's time to turn the tables on them. 

    I'm surprised we don't hear more about Johan Santana. That is a potentially cheap sign for a high upside guy.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I like Kuroda and am especially excited to give the Yankees a 1st round draft pick. This is brilliant!

    I think my only worry is that he is only 38 years old, a bit too young perhaps?

    [/QUOTE]

    They don't get our pick, if we sign him.

    They get a sandwich pick if anyone signs him.

    We lose our 1st round pick (probably somewhere between #21 and #26), if we sign a QO player.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm open minded also Moon. We often disagree without insulting each other.  To me, the data on Tanaka and Kuroda is pretty compelling. Consistently great numbers. If we do nothing we might just as well pencil them into next year's Yankee rotation, and watch them potentially beat us again. I don't mind getting beat but not when I can do something about it. What are the Yanks going to do if either of these guys are unavailable to them. They need at least 2 starters and maybe 3. Will they go with Ervin Santana? Jimenez? Nolasco?

    The best way to beat the Yanks is to at least consider competing for the players on their roster. Make it hard for them to bring themback. They do it to us all the time. It's time to turn the tables on them. 

    I'm surprised we don't hear more about Johan Santana. That is a potentially cheap sign for a high upside guy.

    [/QUOTE]

    If Henry is willing to fork over the posting fee for Tanaka, I will be pleased... very pleased.

    We could trade Dempster and Peavy, save cap money to spend elsewhere, and still improve our rotation 1 to 5.

    Going over the luxury limit would actually cost Henry less than the posting fee, so we could go another route.

    This kind of reminds me of one of my ideas last year: trade Lester for Myers, but then sign A Sanchez to replace Lester.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    Agreed Moon. Especially on Tanaka. I don't understand why we wouldn't play in that pool. We have a lot of pitching but why not improve that with a mega stud, and then trade the excess to save cap space and open up cash for other needs?

    It's conceivable that we could sign Tanaka and Choo and improve the team in other areas still if we can move 1 or more of those Dempster / Peavy contracts. Tanaka and Beltran wouldn't bother me a bit either. If it means I can trade Nava for a better first base option, as much as I like Nava personally and as a player, I'm ok with that. Given the situation, he's better off somewhere else anyway.

    Staying under the cap means $25 mil approximately in revenue sharing this year and next. That's a decent negotiating bid for Tanaka right there. Whichever big market team signs Tanaka will immediately be a contender. And if we do it we will immediately become the front runner. Isn't that the whole point of the off season? Improve the team's chances of winning as much as possible without mortgaging the future excessively. Lots of teams do it in a way to even blow up the future; i.e. The Yanks and Toronto last year. It's worth that much to them. The Redsox are in a position to take some chances. And we clearly are in win now mode. Why not sign the top pitching option out there to maximize that success.

    We of all teams should recognize the benefits of a breakthrough splitter and solid control pitching. Koji exemplifies it. And add 5 MPH and you've got Tanaka.

    And if you look at all the contracts coming off the board in the next 2 years for both the Yanks and the Redsox it will probably be a feeding frenzy in NYC and a more moderate farm system type approach for us with a few selected studs mixed in. Prudent choices of potential game changing players and Tanaka looks like one of those types of guys. Unfortunately, he does have the Yankees written all over him. Look at the story line in Japan. Tanaka joins Kuroda in the Yankees starting rotation! 

    We really should put the hurt on the Yanks right there. Make them pay through the nose because they will roll out the wad bigtime if we compete against them. Even if we lose on both players, we potentially win the big picture. 

    But if we take on that challenge we might just snag that guy because they have a lot of other needs as well, and are also trying to stay under the cap, and do not yet know if the albatross of Arod is resolved yet. They may not bid the $70 mil expected. But I wouldn't bet on it.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    The playoff road for us is through NYC. It always has been and always will be. They should be a part of our strategy. Even if we lose out of key players, we win if we make them work too hard to get them.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    Why I want Choo:

    1) Tremendous lead off guy. His .423 OBP is exactly what we need to score runs from the lead off position. As good as Ellsbury was leading off, Choo should be better at a lower cost. 

    2) His numbers should improve in Fenway. His hit chart is indicative of a major wall ball player in the Ortiz vein. There are very few players in baseball which are as optimized for Fenway as Choo.

    3) We have that LF slot which has been designed for slugging type outfielders for many years. We need to maximize offensive output from that lineup position. Choo is maybe the 2nd best bat available from this year's FA crop and the best hitting outfielder.

    4) He sees as many pitches per at bat as Napoli. He works the count as well as anyone in baseball. Wearing down the opposing pitchers in the Redsox way. I can't believe they don't see that and care about that.

    5) From all indications, he stays healthy and works hard. This is a guy who will not tank after getting the big contract. He is as consistent a talent there is out there short of Cano.

    6) As we saw in the playoffs, winning teams need some special players to score runs in the playoffs. Some guys can't do squat when they get to that level of competition. To me the best guys for that type of special bat out there are Cano, Choo or Beltran. Every team knows it. If we can snag Cano and make him a 3rd baseman or 1st baseman at a reasonable price I'm fine with that but we all know that probably isn't going to happen. Choo or Beltran are out best options in aquiring a top level bat which can generate runs in the playoffs.

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/11/choo-seeking-to-exceed-werths-126mm-contract.html

    I cant see the Sox coming even remotely close to this. The Cubs and M's seem like good realistic landing spots for him. They both have the extra $$ and a big need. If the Sox are going to do a deal like this, I would expect Ellsbury would be back before Choo is signed here. Hey, anything can happen, but Im just sticking with the format of this thread. Realistic.

    Heres why I steer clear of Choo...

    To get this kind of $$ and years at his age, he needs to be a well rounded player. He cant hit LHP, and is a horrible defender. These are known facts. Yes, his offense is solid. At least vs RHP it is. But with a career .615OPS vs LHP, hes soon to be a platoon guy with bad defense. At least Ellsbury's splits are much more balanced, hes a much better defender at a premium position, is younger, can handle Boston, and is a much better base stealer. In other words, if you are going to dish out this kind of $$ and years for a player, why in Gods name would you pick Choo over Ellsbury? Because he has a better OBP?

    If it comes down to Choo at 5/90 or Ells for 6/108, I go with Ellsbury all day, every day. To me, its clearly a no-brainer. I guess we will see how the market shapes up. Personally, I dont see either coming here...But if one does and the $$ and years are similar, Id bet on it being Ellsbury.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Have faith Moon. Bogey will turn out to be a very good SS.

    I think he might become average by 2016, and possibly plus afterwards, but I doubt he ever gets to be top 10 (top 33%).




    Cherington reiterated that the team views Bogaerts as a shortstop, albeit a player who gives the team considerable flexibility.

    “We certainly believe he’s a shortstop,” said Cherington. “He could play another position if he had to. He proved that he was capable of doing that. We absolutely see him as a shortstop long-term.”

    Does that mean he goes to AAA for another year? Does it just mean that in case Middy goes down, they have options? One thing is for sure. The organization sees Xander as the SS of the future.
    Not sure why you are so against him actually improving and becoming and above average MLB SS. Do you know something that the pros dont? Do you not think hes as talented as all the scouts and Sox organization believe he is? Most scouts who have seen him recently say they believe he can stick at SS. Maybe a couple years ago there was CONCERN from insiders about him growing out of the positions, but not so much in 2014. He has grown and yet His agility is still solid and his fielding has improved. Ive seen him in AA and AAA enough to notice myself.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Have faith Moon. Bogey will turn out to be a very good SS.

    I think he might become average by 2016, and possibly plus afterwards, but I doubt he ever gets to be top 10 (top 33%).

    [/QUOTE]


    Cherington reiterated that the team views Bogaerts as a shortstop, albeit a player who gives the team considerable flexibility.

    “We certainly believe he’s a shortstop,” said Cherington. “He could play another position if he had to. He proved that he was capable of doing that. We absolutely see him as a shortstop long-term.”


    Not sure why you are so against him actually improving and becoming and above average MLB SS. Do you know something that the pros dont? Do you not think hes as talented as all the scouts and Sox organization believe he is? Most scouts who have seen him recently say they believe he can stick at SS. Maybe a couple years ago there was CONCERN from insiders about him growing out of the positions, but not so much in 2014. He has grown and yet His agility is still solid and his fielding has improved. Ive seen him in AA and AAA enough to notice myself.

    [/QUOTE]

    I have said many times, I think Bogey will be our SS in 2014 and probably beyond.

    I am never "against" any Sox player improving. I have projected Bogey improving to possibly a plus fielding SS over time, so I'm not sure where you are getting this.

    My baseball philosophy is rooted in 2 major positions:

    1) You need great starting pitching to contend, and one should almost always look to improve your rotation from the top 3 slots- not by improving your 4th or 5th starter.

    2) Defense at the SS position, particularly in the area of range greatly increases the effeciency of your staff and your chances at winning.

    I love Bogey on our team. I think his bat is going to help us a lot, and to me, doing it at 3B or elsewhere is not going to diminish that value. I am not too high on Middy due to his low OBP throughout his career in the minors as well as his small sample sizes in the bigs. To me, that streers me towards wanting Bogey at 3B, and perhaps giving Middy a chance to platoon or win the open 1B job outright. Middy and Carp at 1B is better than Carp alone. To me, we gain at 2 slots, lose offense at SS, but gain defense there by obtaining a great defensive SS for low money. Perhaps one day Marrero fills that slot.

    The worst part of my plan, IMO, is what to do with Cecchini. If he becomes ready sooner than later, there's a huge logjam at 3B and moving Bogey there makes it worse.

    As forz the recent scouting reports, most do see improvement and the ability to stick at SS, but they still are talking about moving positions. That is almost always a red flag or code word for the belief that a player may not be well suited for that position due to defensive liabilities. Here is this year's soxprospects report: (There is a lot of good said here about his defense and improvement, but almost all of these guys still show some serious doubts.)

    Plus arm.  Solid-average range, but may lose footspeed as he gets bigger.  Needs to slow the game down defensively and resist the feeling to rush plays. Inconsistent with footwork and staying down on the ball.  Choppy at times with his movements and reactions.Improvements in the field and physical development should allow Bogaerts to stick at shortstop for the outset of his big league career. If he needs to move off the position, has the tools to play either third base or left field.

    Questions remained about whether Bogaerts could stick at shortstop, but he had begun to answer them. After the 2011 season, the scouting consensus was that Bogaerts would need to move off short as he got bigger and filled out his 6-foot-3 frame. As 2012 wore on, while it was not a sure thing that he could stick up the middle, he showed signs that he might be able to stay at short to start his career

    ...he has not lost any athleticism. He has plenty of arm for the position, showing plus in game action. He has soft hands and solid range to either side. The area where he could still use improvement comes with his footwork, which can get sloppy at times. He still does not gain ground all that well on the ball, preferring to stay back and wait for a perfect hop, and he has some trouble throwing on the run. His reads at the position are improving, but his first step is still a little slow and with only average foot speed, he does not have the ability to recover. These are small issues, but in combination they hold him back from projecting as a plus-to-better shortstop. Even with that in mind, with his bat and the ability to play average to solid-average defense at a premium defensive position, you have the makings of a potential superstar. – Ian Cundall

    Bogaerts should be written in pen in the 2014 big-league lineup, though which position on the left side of the infield he plays will be largely determined by roster composition. – Jon Meoli

    I still see recent talk of moving positions.

    I'm hoping Bogey can become a plus defender at SS very quickly. I'd love to see Cecchini at 3B very soon. I'm not hoping he fails at SS, so I can say "I told you so". I am holding out hope he can get near top 10 after a couple years or so, but I doubt he ever gets there. That's not a slight on Bogey, but there are so many great fielding SS out there right now. SSs that have been high plus on defense their whole life. It's doubtful Bogey can ever pass them.

    I'm fine with a Bogey at SS and Middy at 3B IF for 2014. I hope we sign a very capable defensive SS as our utility IF'er just in case Middy struggles again. When we traded Iggy, I think Ben's intentions became obvious. Bogey is going to be our SS. I will support him, root for him, and watch his defensive improvement like a hawk. It's my nature to do so, especially at the SS position.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Have faith Moon. Bogey will turn out to be a very good SS.

    I think he might become average by 2016, and possibly plus afterwards, but I doubt he ever gets to be top 10 (top 33%).

    [/QUOTE]


    Cherington reiterated that the team views Bogaerts as a shortstop, albeit a player who gives the team considerable flexibility.

    “We certainly believe he’s a shortstop,” said Cherington. “He could play another position if he had to. He proved that he was capable of doing that. We absolutely see him as a shortstop long-term.”


    Not sure why you are so against him actually improving and becoming and above average MLB SS. Do you know something that the pros dont? Do you not think hes as talented as all the scouts and Sox organization believe he is? Most scouts who have seen him recently say they believe he can stick at SS. Maybe a couple years ago there was CONCERN from insiders about him growing out of the positions, but not so much in 2014. He has grown and yet His agility is still solid and his fielding has improved. Ive seen him in AA and AAA enough to notice myself.

    [/QUOTE]

    I have said many times, I think Bogey will be our SS in 2014 and probably beyond.

    I am never "against" any Sox player improving. I have projected Bogey improving to possibly a plus fielding SS over time, so I'm not sure where you are getting this.

    My baseball philosophy is rooted in 2 major positions:

    1) You need great starting pitching to contend, and one should almost always look to improve your rotation from the top 3 slots- not by improving your 4th or 5th starter.

    2) Defense at the SS position, particularly in the area of range greatly increases the effeciency of your staff and your chances at winning.

    I love Bogey on our team. I think his bat is going to help us a lot, and to me, doing it at 3B or elsewhere is not going to diminish that value. I am not too high on Middy due to his low OBP throughout his career in the minors as well as his small sample sizes in the bigs. To me, that streers me towards wanting Bogey at 3B, and perhaps giving Middy a chance to platoon or win the open 1B job outright. Middy and Carp at 1B is better than Carp alone. To me, we gain at 2 slots, lose offense at SS, but gain defense there by obtaining a great defensive SS for low money. Perhaps one day Marrero fills that slot.

    The worst part of my plan, IMO, is what to do with Cecchini. If he becomes ready sooner than later, there's a huge logjam at 3B and moving Bogey there makes it worse.

    As forz the recent scouting reports, most do see improvement and the ability to stick at SS, but they still are talking about moving positions. That is almost always a red flag or code word for the belief that a player may not be well suited for that position due to defensive liabilities. Here is this year's soxprospects report: (There is a lot of good said here about his defense and improvement, but almost all of these guys still show some serious doubts.)

    Plus arm.  Solid-average range, but may lose footspeed as he gets bigger.  Needs to slow the game down defensively and resist the feeling to rush plays. Inconsistent with footwork and staying down on the ball.  Choppy at times with his movements and reactions.Improvements in the field and physical development should allow Bogaerts to stick at shortstop for the outset of his big league career. If he needs to move off the position, has the tools to play either third base or left field.

    Questions remained about whether Bogaerts could stick at shortstop, but he had begun to answer them. After the 2011 season, the scouting consensus was that Bogaerts would need to move off short as he got bigger and filled out his 6-foot-3 frame. As 2012 wore on, while it was not a sure thing that he could stick up the middle, he showed signs that he might be able to stay at short to start his career

    ...he has not lost any athleticism. He has plenty of arm for the position, showing plus in game action. He has soft hands and solid range to either side. The area where he could still use improvement comes with his footwork, which can get sloppy at times. He still does not gain ground all that well on the ball, preferring to stay back and wait for a perfect hop, and he has some trouble throwing on the run. His reads at the position are improving, but his first step is still a little slow and with only average foot speed, he does not have the ability to recover. These are small issues, but in combination they hold him back from projecting as a plus-to-better shortstop. Even with that in mind, with his bat and the ability to play average to solid-average defense at a premium defensive position, you have the makings of a potential superstar. – Ian Cundall

    Bogaerts should be written in pen in the 2014 big-league lineup, though which position on the left side of the infield he plays will be largely determined by roster composition. – Jon Meoli

    I still see recent talk of moving positions.

    I'm hoping Bogey can become a plus defender at SS very quickly. I'd love to see Cecchini at 3B very soon. I'm not hoping he fails at SS, so I can say "I told you so". I am holding out hope he can get near top 10 after a couple years or so, but I doubt he ever gets there. That's not a slight on Bogey, but there are so many great fielding SS out there right now. SSs that have been high plus on defense their whole life. It's doubtful Bogey can ever pass them.

    I'm fine with a Bogey at SS and Middy at 3B IF for 2014. I hope we sign a very capable defensive SS as our utility IF'er just in case Middy struggles again. When we traded Iggy, I think Ben's intentions became obvious. Bogey is going to be our SS. I will support him, root for him, and watch his defensive improvement like a hawk. It's my nature to do so, especially at the SS position.

    [/QUOTE]


    "against" was probably the wrong word.

    You wrote..

    "think he might become average by 2016"

    Thats not a very good vote of confidence. Not a slight, I understand its just your opinion, which we disagree on. Maybe a better statement would be that you dont have much confidence in him becoming an above average SS. You are right about this though... When Cecchini is ready, Middy better have his game in order. 

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    "against" was probably the wrong word.

    You wrote..

    "think he might become average by 2016"

    Thats not a very good vote of confidence. Not a slight, I understand its just your opinion, which we disagree on. Maybe a better statement would be that you dont have much confidence in him becoming an above average SS. You are right about this though... When Cecchini is ready, Middy better have his game in order. 

     

    There are a lot of very very good fielding SSs in MLB today. Being average is not a bad thing, but it is what it is.

    I seriously doubt any below average fielding SS has an easy path to becoming plus or top 10. 2 years to go from bottom 10 to #14-16 is not a "lack of confidence", in fact I think I am being generous.

    Are other MLB SSs going to get worse or decline? Maybe some by age or injury, but there are a lot of plus and super plus fielding SSs out there right now.

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    "against" was probably the wrong word.

    You wrote..

    "think he might become average by 2016"

    Thats not a very good vote of confidence. Not a slight, I understand its just your opinion, which we disagree on. Maybe a better statement would be that you dont have much confidence in him becoming an above average SS. You are right about this though... When Cecchini is ready, Middy better have his game in order. 

     

    There are a lot of very very good fielding SSs in MLB today. Being average is not a bad thing, but it is what it is.

    I seriously doubt any below average fielding SS has an easy path to becoming plus or top 10. 2 years to go from bottom 10 to #14-16 is not a "lack of confidence", in fact I think I am being generous.

    Are other MLB SSs going to get worse or decline? Maybe some by age or injury, but there are a lot of plus and super plus fielding SSs out there right now.

     




    Ok, fair enough.

    Now, as far as Middy goes...

    Could you live with a 260BA  .310OBP  500SLG with 25HR and 150K's from Middy at 3b?

    If Cecchini stays at 300BA  380OBP  low 400's SLG  10HR, which he appears likely to do, is he your 3b and then revisit a move for Middy to 1b. Or do you put Cecchini in LF or 1b since his defense hasnt looked very good at 3b? I admit that I believe Cecchini will improve on his Defense, but Im not sure how much.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    If a lot of SS are very good fielders then I'd say that being an average SS makes you an above average defender overall. 

    Generally speaking SS's are the most athletic players on any team, with perhaps the prototypical CF'er giving them a run for their money. 

    Bogaerts is said to be an average defender, now that may not be enough for some people who truly value defense but If I can get average defense and elite offense from a guy at a position then I'll sleep very well at the end of the night.

    That does nothing to play down the expectations of him moving off of SS, because the truth is he probably could play above average at any other position on the infield if given enough time to adjust to the position.  

    But I do think he stays at SS for a few more seasons at least, and a lot of that could depend on how are prospects pan out.  WMB has all the tools and the minor league track record of being an above average defender at 3rd but something seemed to happen to him last year.  perhaps his offense spilt over into his defense, and perhaps that is something he can mitigate in the future.  If his defense rounds out, and he can become a constant 30 HR threat then I'd look to keep him at 3rd, But I can imagine a scenario where WMB moves off of third and Bogey comes to third.

    Lets say in 3 years from now Devon Marerro turns into a MLB player and WMB makes little improvements on his defense but he is constantly a 30 HR guy who's hit tool is sufficient enough to make up for his low walk totals.  I'd be perfectly fine plugging Marrero in at SS (who many scouts say that his glove is VERY close to as good as IGGY's) move Bogaerts to 3rd and WMB to first. 

    A lot can happen, and we have options....and Cecchini no doubt should be in the picture.  Another thing to consider is all of WMB, Bogaerts, and Cecchini have the arm to play in the outfield.  Not saying it is the best position for any of them, but they also likely have the bats for it as well. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    My baseball philosophy is rooted in 2 major positions:

    1) You need great starting pitching to contend, and one should almost always look to improve your rotation from the top 3 slots- not by improving your 4th or 5th starter.

    2) Defense at the SS position, particularly in the area of range greatly increases the effeciency of your staff and your chances at winning.



    1) No argument.

    2) Where is the statistical evidence that supports the great importance of SS defence?  We've said it many times, Jeter has terrible range but the Yankees have only missed the playoffs twice with him at SS-only once really, since he hardly played last year.

    I would like to see how much correlation there actually is between SS defence and a team's record.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    My baseball philosophy is rooted in 2 major positions:

    1) You need great starting pitching to contend, and one should almost always look to improve your rotation from the top 3 slots- not by improving your 4th or 5th starter.

    2) Defense at the SS position, particularly in the area of range greatly increases the effeciency of your staff and your chances at winning.

    [/QUOTE]

    1) No argument.

    2) Where is the statistical evidence that supports the great importance of SS defence?  We've said it many times, Jeter has terrible range but the Yankees have only missed the playoffs twice with him at SS-only really, since he hardly played last year.

    I would like to see how much correlation there actually is between SS defence and a team's record.

    [/QUOTE]


    I think that has something to do with your pitchers Hfx. If your staff induce a ton of GB's, then yes, IF defense is very important. Its obviously not the only thing, but part of the equation when building a team.

     

     

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