A Realistic View at 2014: Part II

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from RigatoniT. Show RigatoniT's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part II

    Like Lackey a week ago Lester easily have a complete game... it isn't that they cannot throw the 9 it is because they are not allowed. Shame really. It should be a team goal to 5-8 complete games out of each starter.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part II

    The team goal is to win a ring.


    No shame in that.


     


    Sox4ever

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from patrickford. Show patrickford's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part II

    Lester is the best pitcher in all of baseball. If he were a Ray or a Yankee he would have been winning 25-30 games a year for the past five years. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part II

    In response to patrickford's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Lester is the best pitcher in all of baseball. If he were a Ray or a Yankee he would have been winning 25-30 games a year for the past five years. 


    [/QUOTE]


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    Why?


    Because we have had a bad offense?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from RigatoniT. Show RigatoniT's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part II

    did u take your dummy pill tonight moon? great retorts on your part

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part II

    In response to RigatoniT's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Like Lackey a week ago Lester easily have a complete game... it isn't that they cannot throw the 9 it is because they are not allowed. Shame really. It should be a team goal to 5-8 complete games out of each starter.


    [/QUOTE]

    Why? 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part II

    In response to RigatoniT's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    did u take your dummy pill tonight moon? great retorts on your part


    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]


    I speak the truth. No pills needed for that.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part II

    In response to RigatoniT's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Like Lackey a week ago Lester easily have a complete game... it isn't that they cannot throw the 9 it is because they are not allowed. Shame really. It should be a team goal to 5-8 complete games out of each starter.


    [/QUOTE]

    He was at 119 pitches, Rig.  Another inning would put him at 135-140 pitches.  That's too many pitches.


     


     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part II

    Keeping starting pitchers fresh and strong all year long and into October is a sound strategy.


    Sox4ever

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part II

    Is it time to revisit the CERA thing?  The Sox now have two experienced catchers who presumably work well with the pitching staff.  The Sox are in fact pitching well and have the best ERA in the AL East and the 5th best in the AL.  They are tied with the Athletics in quality starts (whatever those are).  I only say this because of the thread tracking Saltalamacchia--as if to say, "if only Salty were still with us."  

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part II

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Is it time to revisit the CERA thing?  The Sox now have two experienced catchers who presumably work well with the pitching staff.  The Sox are in fact pitching well and have the best ERA in the AL East and the 5th best in the AL.  They are tied with the Athletics in quality starts (whatever those are).  I only say this because of the thread tracking Saltalamacchia--as if to say, "if only Salty were still with us."  


    [/QUOTE]


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    AJP should afforded a learning curve with our staff. Ross should be well acquainted already. I expect by year's end, our pitcher's should be slightly better than last year with Salty/Lava and part time with Ross.


    We'll never know how well they might have done with Salty. We'll never see if Salty continues his improvement in the CERA area skill set. It's hard to compare a catcher in the NL vs AL catchers. It's hard to compare CERA from one team to another. CERA is best used to compare pitcher by pitcher catchers on the same team.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part II

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Is it time to revisit the CERA thing?  The Sox now have two experienced catchers who presumably work well with the pitching staff.  The Sox are in fact pitching well and have the best ERA in the AL East and the 5th best in the AL.  They are tied with the Athletics in quality starts (whatever those are).  I only say this because of the thread tracking Saltalamacchia--as if to say, "if only Salty were still with us."  


    [/QUOTE]


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    Also, the whole league offense is down, so any drop in ERA (and CERA) should be taken in context.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from RigatoniT. Show RigatoniT's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part II

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    In response to RigatoniT's comment:
    [QUOTE]


     


    Like Lackey a week ago Lester easily have a complete game... it isn't that they cannot throw the 9 it is because they are not allowed. Shame really. It should be a team goal to 5-8 complete games out of each starter.


    [/QUOTE]


    He was at 119 pitches, Rig.  Another inning would put him at 135-140 pitches.  That's too many pitches.


    [/QUOTE]

    He can handle it.... just got to let them prover it... anyhow I don't expect it to happen.... 


    moon u would have put Cy Young on a pitch count 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part II

    In response to RigatoniT's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    He can handle it.... just got to let them prover it... anyhow I don't expect it to happen.... 


    [/QUOTE]

    Just about every time a pitcher throws over 130 pitches they are seriously messed up for about a month.  It happened once with Schilling when he was here.  It happened with Edwin Jackson when he had the no-hitter with 140+ pitches.


    Maybe pitchers of the olden days were more durable because they were trained better - I really don't know.


    But pitchers are very prone to seriously injuring themselves just pitching - pretty hard to deny that.  


     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part II

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    In response to RigatoniT's comment:
    [QUOTE]


     


    He can handle it.... just got to let them prover it... anyhow I don't expect it to happen.... 


     


    [/QUOTE]

    Just about every time a pitcher throws over 130 pitches they are seriously messed up for about a month.  It happened once with Schilling when he was here.  It happened with Edwin Jackson when he had the no-hitter with 140+ pitches.


     


    Maybe pitchers of the olden days were more durable because they were trained better - I really don't know.


     


    But pitchers are very prone to seriously injuring themselves just pitching - pretty hard to deny that.  


     


     


    [/QUOTE]

    If you do not train to throw 130+ pitches then you are just going to get hurt when you try to do it. Its like training for a half marathon then going out and trying to run the full 26 miles. You might be able to complete it, but its going to mess you up. On the other hand, if you train properly you can probably run the full distance. Today's pitchers train to pitch a little over 100 pitches a game at which point they are routinely removed. I do not want to see Sox pitchers going for a CG if they are nearing 110 pitches.


    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE


     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part II

    I don't think it's reasonable to compare pitchers of today with pitchers of 30 years ago.  "In days of yore" it was the goal of a starting pitcher to throw a complete game because that pitcher was doing a better job than anyone else would do that day.  Now we're in the days of the specialist/closer and we know that if you have a good one of those that closer is going to be more effective than a pitcher who's throw 110+ pitches already that day.


    The game has evolved and this is where it is now.  I don't see what the big deal is about a pitcher throwing a perfect game anyway.  The goal of the team is to win games and if the best way to do it is by bringing in a closer... so be it.  


    Having the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part II

    He can handle it.... just got to let them prover it... anyhow I don't expect it to happen....


     


    Yeah, he probably could have "handled it", but in this day and age, starting pitchers are being conditioned to go hard for 90-120 pitches. We had the game in the bag, so why not keep Lester fresh and strong?


     



    moon u would have put Cy Young on a pitch count


     


    Yeah, maybe about the 180 to 200 pitch mark.


    Different era- different game- different standards.


    I don't think it's crazy or "pill-induced" to think we can change the new tradition and start conditioning our SP'ers to go longer each start, but that's not going to happen mid-season. I don't think it is "pill induced" craziness to think limiting Lester's pitch count (and others too) can be a positive thing in the long run.


     


     


     


     


    Sox4ever

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part II

    Day off, 2 vs the Reds, then another day off. Weird.


    3 at TEX this weekend followed by another day off.


    That's 3 days off in 8 days.


    3 @ MN, 3 v DET, then another off day.


    4 days off out of 15 days.


    Then 16 games in 16 days.


     


    Sox4ever

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:
    [QUOTE]


    On that pitcher scouting report let's give Barnes a freaking cutter quick! Everything I hear is that he can control his fastball even within the zone and it misses bats and can get up to 98. The guy might well be a better overall prospect than Owens if we look at it long term. He should be able to at least relieve for us this year after the break.


    Ranaudo just doesn't seem to miss enough bats. Trade em!


    If we can get some value! He'd be a solid pitcher in some big park like San Diego. He is not cut out for the AL East though IMHO!


    Owens is a project but he clearly has potential.


    Could it be that Britton turns out to be a real decent LH reliever?


    This team is just flat out stacked! Can't wait for Cechinni to join the club and solve that lead off spot problem or slide in the 2 hole. He and JBJ are made to order Redsox hitters.


    [/QUOTE]

    I have been on Cecchini's bandwagon for a long time. I hope to see him this year, but not because Middy is stinking up the place or Naps or Papi are injured, but really, something like that needs to happen for garin to get a long ML look in 2014.


    [/QUOTE]

    I have seen Garin about a half dozen times and he looks very comfortable at the plate but unfortunately his defense is just the opposite.  I don't see him helping our already shaky defense so chances are slim he will be on the big club until he finds a home defensively. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part II

    I have seen Garin about a half dozen times and he looks very comfortable at the plate but unfortunately his defense is just the opposite. I don't see him helping our already shaky defense so chances are slim he will be on the big club until he finds a home defensively.


    I do not pretend to know more about prospects than Sox management, but my opinion is that we leave some weak defensive players at their position too long. I know some players need time to develop and grow into decent or plus fielders, but with so many players & prospects able to play 3B (Bogey, Middy, Cecchini, Holt, Devers and maybe even Betts), I'd like to see Cecchini moved to 1B or LF (or both). I'd also like to see Betts moved to SS or LF. Sooner rather than later.


    I know many here disagree, and again, I am no expert on this subject, but I wish we had moved Bogey to 3B two years ago.


    Sox4ever

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    I have seen Garin about a half dozen times and he looks very comfortable at the plate but unfortunately his defense is just the opposite. I don't see him helping our already shaky defense so chances are slim he will be on the big club until he finds a home defensively.


     


    I do not pretend to know more about prospects than Sox management, but my opinion is that we leave some weak defensive players at their position too long. I know some players need time to develop and grow into decent or plus fielders, but with so many players & prospects able to play 3B (Bogey, Middy, Cecchini, Holt, Devers and maybe even Betts), I'd like to see Cecchini moved to 1B or LF (or both). I'd also like to see Betts moved to SS or LF. Sooner rather than later.


     


    I know many here disagree, and again, I am no expert on this subject, but I wish we had moved Bogey to 3B two years ago.


     


    Sox4ever


    [/QUOTE]

    That's a given moon and I completely agree.  Betts isn't going to be our 2B unless Pede goes down and the kid is tearing the cover off the ball so why he is still playing 2B?  Same goes for Garin, another solid eye at the plate who has yet to master 3B.  If Middy goes down or struggles Bogy is probably the only guy that can play there every day and help our lineup. 


    Puzzling, I would love to know their reasoning but there has to be some.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from RigatoniT. Show RigatoniT's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part II

    why not really give up? didn't u have enough already?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part II

    In response to RigatoniT's comment:


     


    why not really give up? didn't u have enough already?


     




    Only with you RigatoniT, you are now on ignore like your other screen name.


    Enjoy!

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part II

    In response to craze4sox's comment:
    [QUOTE]In response to moonslav59's comment:[QUOTE]


    I have seen Garin about a half dozen times and he looks very comfortable at the plate but unfortunately his defense is just the opposite. I don't see him helping our already shaky defense so chances are slim he will be on the big club until he finds a home defensively.


    I do not pretend to know more about prospects than Sox management, but my opinion is that we leave some weak defensive players at their position too long. I know some players need time to develop and grow into decent or plus fielders, but with so many players & prospects able to play 3B (Bogey, Middy, Cecchini, Holt, Devers and maybe even Betts), I'd like to see Cecchini moved to 1B or LF (or both). I'd also like to see Betts moved to SS or LF. Sooner rather than later.


    I know many here disagree, and again, I am no expert on this subject, but I wish we had moved Bogey to 3B two years ago.


    Sox4ever [/QUOTE]


    That's a given moon and I completely agree.  Betts isn't going to be our 2B unless Pede goes down and the kid is tearing the cover off the ball so why he is still playing 2B?  Same goes for Garin, another solid eye at the plate who has yet to master 3B.  If Middy goes down or struggles Bogy is probably the only guy that can play there every day and help our lineup. 


    Puzzling, I would love to know their reasoning but there has to be some.


    [/QUOTE] [object HTMLDivElement]


    Maybe they just want these guys to focus on improving their hitting, and they don't want to distract them with a position change.


    With Betts, it's a given: he's not playing 2B for Boston, except as an injury fill-in. Move him now!


    With Cecchini, maybe they see potential for improving his defense at 3B, and feel Middy is to much of a question mark going forward, that keeping Cecchini at 3B is because they see him as our next 3Bman.


    My main reason for wanting to move Cecchini is not because I have given up hope on his defense at 3B, it is because I see Bogey there within a year or two.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:



     




     




    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:[QUOTE]




    I have seen Garin about a half dozen times and he looks very comfortable at the plate but unfortunately his defense is just the opposite. I don't see him helping our already shaky defense so chances are slim he will be on the big club until he finds a home defensively.




    I do not pretend to know more about prospects than Sox management, but my opinion is that we leave some weak defensive players at their position too long. I know some players need time to develop and grow into decent or plus fielders, but with so many players & prospects able to play 3B (Bogey, Middy, Cecchini, Holt, Devers and maybe even Betts), I'd like to see Cecchini moved to 1B or LF (or both). I'd also like to see Betts moved to SS or LF. Sooner rather than later.




    I know many here disagree, and again, I am no expert on this subject, but I wish we had moved Bogey to 3B two years ago.




    Sox4ever 




     



     


     


    That's a given moon and I completely agree.  Betts isn't going to be our 2B unless Pede goes down and the kid is tearing the cover off the ball so why he is still playing 2B?  Same goes for Garin, another solid eye at the plate who has yet to master 3B.  If Middy goes down or struggles Bogy is probably the only guy that can play there every day and help our lineup. 


     


    Puzzling, I would love to know their reasoning but there has to be some.


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


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    Maybe they just want these guys to focus on improving their hitting, and they don't want to distract them with a position change.


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


    With Betts, it's a given: he's not playing 2B for Boston, except as an injury fill-in. Move him now!


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


    With Cecchini, maybe they see potential for improving his defense at 3B, and feel Middy is to much of a question mark going forward, that keeping Cecchini at 3B is because they see him as our next 3Bman.


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


    My main reason for wanting to move Cecchini is not because I have given up hope on his defense at 3B, it is because I see Bogey there within a year or two.


     


     


     


    [/QUOTE]

    Me too moon and good point about Middy, I just think Bogy looks more natural at 3B and may end up another Machado type talent at some point.  Garin is still pretty young, even if he can't find a real home defensively maybe his power will develop enough to take over Papi's spot.  Either way I like his bat.  I would love to see Swihart, Vasquez, Betts and Garin all in our lineup at some point helping out along with JBJ, Middy and Bogy.


    It would sure give us some serious payroll flexibility while making things a bit easier to offer guys like Lester what he deserves.  I think our initial offer to Jon was a slap in the face and hope it doesn't end up causing problems.

     

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