A Reprise

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: A Reprise

    In Response to Re: A Reprise:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A Reprise : I would have considered making Aceves a SP and used the pen to fill in for him after the 5th or 6th inning. Bowden was available. He could have gone to Epstein and asked for another SP via the wire and told him that he wasn't going to be able to start Wakefield any more. There were no good options, but Francona selected a poor one. History validates that opinion.
    Posted by pumpsie-green[/QUOTE]
    Wait ... what??


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: A Reprise

    In Response to Re: A Reprise:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A Reprise : Wait ... what??
    Posted by LloydDobler[/QUOTE]

    Haaaa!   Almost spit out the tea I was drinking ....  

    Thanks for the laugh. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: A Reprise

    In Response to Re: A Reprise:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A Reprise : Okay Pumpsie, Here are the results of Wakefield's first 5 attempts to win his 200th: 1.  July 29: lost 3-1 2.  August 4:  left after 7 tied at 3 3.  August 9:  left after 7 with the lead, bullpen blew win #200 4.  August 14:  CG loss 5-3 5.  August 20:  left after 5 1/3 with the lead, bullpen blew win#200 After that, his pitching went downhill until he got #200 in September. He was what we had and out of those first 5 tries, the bullpen blew his 200th not once but twice, he left tied and lost a game in performances that any one of us would take from any starter and he lost one game 5-3.  Four reasonably decent shots that didn't work out for him. But of course you would have yanked him after the first couple for what reason and replaced him with who?
    Posted by illinoisredsox[/QUOTE]

    What some people fail to understand is that this is about what you would reasonably expect from a #4, #5 pitcher.  Eat up some innings and keep the team in the game. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from illinoisredsox. Show illinoisredsox's posts

    Re: A Reprise

    Pumpsie, your hatred of both Francona and Wakefield is truly clouding your judgement.

    If you are expecting your #5 (and in reality your #6 or 7) starter to give up 2 runs or less every time , you're nuts.  1's and 2's don't do that.

    If you think you are going to pick up someone off the waiver wire or a AAA guy who would have done better, you're delusional.  After a point it became a distraction, true.  But those first 5 starts should have resulted in at least one W for him.

    Fact, if the offense does it's job in the first or 2nd game, he could have had a win.  Fact, the bullpen blew 2 other potential wins.  Any reasonable support from his teammates would have resulted in a 4-1 record in those 5 starts.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: A Reprise

    In Response to Re: A Reprise:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A Reprise : Of course it is. There is nothing either manager could do about the performance of the players. I hold neither one accountable for that. At least Valentine has tried other options like Cook and Morales. Francona could never think outside the box. He was one of the least creative managers I have ever seen in 50 years of watching ball.
    Posted by pumpsie-green[/QUOTE]

    Francona tried Miller and Weiland.  Valentine keeps running Beckett and his 5+ ERA out there.  No difference.
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: A Reprise

    In Response to Re: A Reprise:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A Reprise : What some people fail to understand is that this is about what you would reasonably expect from a #4, #5 pitcher.  Eat up some innings and keep the team in the game. 
    Posted by RedSoxKimmi[/QUOTE]

    I expect an occasional game or two where our #5 SP allows fewer than three runs. Please do not tell me what I do or do not understand. I do fine in that category.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: A Reprise

    In Response to Re: A Reprise:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A Reprise : Francona tried Miller and Weiland.  Valentine keeps running Beckett and his 5+ ERA out there.  No difference.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    He tried Miller and Weiland IN ADDITION to Wakefield because Buchholz was out. There were other options that should have been tried IN PLACE of Wakefield. The ship was sinking....and Francona sat............and spat.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: A Reprise

    In Response to Re: A Reprise:
    [QUOTE]Pumpsie, your hatred of both Francona and Wakefield is truly clouding your judgement. If you are expecting your #5 (and in reality your #6 or 7) starter to give up 2 runs or less every time , you're nuts.  1's and 2's don't do that. If you think you are going to pick up someone off the waiver wire or a AAA guy who would have done better, you're delusional.  After a point it became a distraction, true.  But those first 5 starts should have resulted in at least one W for him. Fact, if the offense does it's job in the first or 2nd game, he could have had a win.  Fact, the bullpen blew 2 other potential wins.  Any reasonable support from his teammates would have resulted in a 4-1 record in those 5 starts.
    Posted by illinoisredsox[/QUOTE]

    First, I don't "hate" Francona and Wakefield. I don't even know them. I do not like their performances. Key difference. And I don't expect our #5 SP to surrender fewer than three runs every time out, just sometimes. And I don't want even my #5 SP to have an ERA over 5.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: A Reprise

    In Response to Re: A Reprise:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A Reprise : He tried Miller and Weiland IN ADDITION to Wakefield because Buchholz was out. There were other options that should have been tried IN PLACE of Wakefield. The ship was sinking....and Francona sat............and spat.
    Posted by pumpsie-green[/QUOTE]

    Valentine's not doing anything either.  He keeps running Beckett out there and Beckett's ERA is higher than Wakefield's was last year.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: A Reprise

    and the team is playing so much better now under BV's leadership.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: A Reprise

    In Response to Re: A Reprise:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A Reprise : Valentine's not doing anything either.  He keeps running Beckett out there and Beckett's ERA is higher than Wakefield's was last year.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    Where did I say that Beckett or Lester still deserve to be in the rotation. Long ago I posted that Morales and not Lester (when he was going very badly) should start and that Lester should be in the pen. I think Beckett ought to go there too. Valentine is also making a mistake. He makes a lot of them, and I am not sure I want him back as manager next year either.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: A Reprise

    In Response to Re: A Reprise:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A Reprise : I would have considered making Aceves a SP and used the pen to fill in for him after the 5th or 6th inning. Bowden was available. He could have gone to Epstein and asked for another SP via the wire and told him that he wasn't going to be able to start Wakefield any more. There were no good options, but Francona selected a poor one. History validates that opinion.
    Posted by pumpsie-green[/QUOTE]

    Bowden had 2 starts in his ML career.
    He won one game, in 2008 and got shelled in the other, in 2009.

    And you wanted to start him in a month that the Sox were sinking like a stone?

    Good plan...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Promise4you2. Show Promise4you2's posts

    Re: A Reprise

    A long time ago, in a far away land my friend. Be safe as our fathers are! There are no trolls or Red Sox haters in Heaven!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: A Reprise

    In Response to Re: A Reprise:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A Reprise : Bowden had 2 starts in his ML career. He won one game, in 2008 and got shelled in the other, in 2009. And you wanted to start him in a month that the Sox were sinking like a stone? Good plan...
    Posted by ThefourBs[/QUOTE]

    Aceves starting was also an option. When you are sinking like stone, you grasp for straws. Only the insane keep doing the same thing and expect a different result.
     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: A Reprise

    In Response to Re: A Reprise:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A Reprise : I can recall Mikey using this same exact expression last year. i have good recall.
    Posted by Calzone65[/QUOTE]

    Who is Mikey?
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: A Reprise

    In Response to Re: A Reprise:
    [QUOTE]A week at Lake Winnapausakee in NH and you spent two hours talking to your family and the remainder of the time on here.
    Posted by Calzone65[/QUOTE]

    It was enough time.Laughing
     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: A Reprise

    In Response to Re: A Reprise:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A Reprise : Aceves starting was also an option. When you are sinking like stone, you grasp for straws. Only the insane keep doing the same thing and expect a different result.
    Posted by pumpsie-green[/QUOTE]
    Aceves had four starts last year, including one in which he walked five batters in arow. His ERA as a starter was 5.14. It was 2.03 out of the pen. Thus, he stayed where he was most effective.

    Also, the thing you and many others don't seem to get is that Wakefield was not our weakest link in the rotation last year. That would have been one John Lackey.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: A Reprise

    In Response to Re: A Reprise:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A Reprise : Aceves starting was also an option. When you are sinking like stone, you grasp for straws. Only the insane keep doing the same thing and expect a different result.
    Posted by pumpsie-green[/QUOTE]

    Except that Aceves would only have been able to pitch 5 innings or so, and he was desperately needed to pitch a lot of innings out of the bullpen because none of the starters were able to go deep into games.   

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: A Reprise

    In Response to Re: A Reprise:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A Reprise : Except that Aceves would only have been able to pitch 5 innings or so, and he was desperately needed to pitch a lot of innings out of the bullpen because none of the starters were able to go deep into games.   
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    Wakefield wasn't pitching much more than that anyway. I would rather have seen him in the pen and for fewer innnings and tried SOMETHING to win a game rather than allowing us to go down the drain as we did.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: A Reprise

    In Response to Re: A Reprise:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A Reprise : Wakefield wasn't pitching much more than that anyway. I would rather have seen him in the pen and for fewer innnings and tried SOMETHING to win a game rather than allowing us to go down the drain as we did.
    Posted by pumpsie-green[/QUOTE]

    Beckett, Lester, Bedard...we couldn't even win games with those guys on the mound.  Bard and Papelbon blowing saves...it was just a total pitching meltdown.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: A Reprise

    In Response to Re: A Reprise:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A Reprise : Beckett, Lester, Bedard...we couldn't even win games with those guys on the mound.  Bard and Papelbon blowing saves...it was just a total pitching meltdown.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    Beckett, Lester and Bedard and it's "Francona didn't do enough to win".

    But, with Beckett, Lester and Buchholz, BV get's a free pass from Pumpsie.
     

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