A Somewhat Troubling Factoid...........

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: A Somewhat Troubling Factoid...........

    In response to solareclipse's comment:

    Ellsbury is contracted to make about 40 million more in 7 years, than Ortiz has made in his entire 17 year MLB career!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Yankes obvoiusly blundered last winter and this winter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They could have signed Ortiz and let the Red Sox laden themselves with 100 million plus for Ellsbury's 30's. 

    Oritz is the face of the 3 Red Sox WS in the last decade, and here is Ellsbury, more popular with Red Sox fans (sure they deny it but it was true) getting 40 million more in 7 years than Ortiz has made his entire 17 year MLB career !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

     

    Too much time on idle hands, you say? Well, I just finished taking the trash out and it just occured to me to take a minute and do the comparision.

    I'm somehwat troubled, are you?  I suppose I shouldn't care since the Yankees now have this heavy liablity to claim as a 1040 carryover loss, but I don't know whether to feel bad or Ortiz or just feel fortunate that Ortiz has been such a great value compared to his peers?



    I'm never too upset when the Yankees offer these insane (long term) contracts to players.  They rarely work out and in most cases these players decline so badly they have very little trade value.  It ties up their payroll and they still have very little on the farm to rely on in the future.

    They have their way of managing, or mis-managing in most cases and we have ours.  So far we have two more rings this decade because more teams are now willing to spend/grab some of the best players away from NY compared to years ago.  The Yankees on the other hand are still doing the same things they have since raising the salary bar so high.

    When you look at it they have really been their own worst enemy.  Don't worry about Papi, he could have bailed on our organization long ago but he doesn't fall into the Ells type mindset category.

     
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    Re: A Somewhat Troubling Factoid...........

    In response to craze4sox's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to solareclipse's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Ellsbury is contracted to make about 40 million more in 7 years, than Ortiz has made in his entire 17 year MLB career!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Yankes obvoiusly blundered last winter and this winter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They could have signed Ortiz and let the Red Sox laden themselves with 100 million plus for Ellsbury's 30's. 

    Oritz is the face of the 3 Red Sox WS in the last decade, and here is Ellsbury, more popular with Red Sox fans (sure they deny it but it was true) getting 40 million more in 7 years than Ortiz has made his entire 17 year MLB career !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

     

    Too much time on idle hands, you say? Well, I just finished taking the trash out and it just occured to me to take a minute and do the comparision.

    I'm somehwat troubled, are you?  I suppose I shouldn't care since the Yankees now have this heavy liablity to claim as a 1040 carryover loss, but I don't know whether to feel bad or Ortiz or just feel fortunate that Ortiz has been such a great value compared to his peers?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm never too upset when the Yankees offer these insane (long term) contracts to players.  They rarely work out and in most cases these players decline so badly they have very little trade value.  It ties up their payroll and they still have very little on the farm to rely on in the future.

     

    They have their way of managing, or mis-managing in most cases and we have ours.  So far we have two more rings this decade because more teams are now willing to spend/grab some of the best players away from NY compared to years ago.  The Yankees on the other hand are still doing the same things they have since raising the salary bar so high.

    When you look at it they have really been their own worst enemy.  Don't worry about Papi, he could have bailed on our organization long ago but he doesn't fall into the Ells type mindset category.

    [/QUOTE]


    yankees could have had Ortiz in the winter of 2002 for a million bucks just like we did. 

    Ortiz will never go hungry nor will any of his heirs.  He's a DH and got a late start vs Ellsbury and Ellsbury and Boras got to deal w/ Cashman - not really a fair comparison.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: A Somewhat Troubling Factoid...........

    In response to solareclipse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oritz is the face of the 3 Red Sox WS in the last decade, and here is Ellsbury, more popular with Red Sox fans (sure they deny it but it was true) getting 40 million more in 7 years than Ortiz has made his entire 17 year MLB career !!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

    [/QUOTE]

    Do you have anything to support this claim that Ellsbury is more popular than Ortiz?  Poll results, jersey sale stats, anything? 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: A Somewhat Troubling Factoid...........

    In response to solareclipse's comment:

    Ellsbury is contracted to make about 40 million more in 7 years, than Ortiz has made in his entire 17 year MLB career!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Yankes obvoiusly blundered last winter and this winter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They could have signed Ortiz and let the Red Sox laden themselves with 100 million plus for Ellsbury's 30's. 

    Oritz is the face of the 3 Red Sox WS in the last decade, and here is Ellsbury, more popular with Red Sox fans (sure they deny it but it was true) getting 40 million more in 7 years than Ortiz has made his entire 17 year MLB career !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

     

    Too much time on idle hands, you say? Well, I just finished taking the trash out and it just occured to me to take a minute and do the comparision.

    I'm somehwat troubled, are you?  I suppose I shouldn't care since the Yankees now have this heavy liablity to claim as a 1040 carryover loss, but I don't know whether to feel bad or Ortiz or just feel fortunate that Ortiz has been such a great value compared to his peers?

     



    Why does this guy sound so familiar?  Hmmmmm???

    His logic is so muddled he kind of reminds me of Stiffy.....  His thesis.....   conflates so many issues it's tough for the sound of mind to follow the non sequiturs, but I'll give it a go.

    The Yankees give Ells $153 MILLION, $45 MILLION more than any Red Sox fan here, or anywhere wanted to give him.  NO Red Sox fans so much as blinked an eye over the thought of matching this deal.  We had pegged a fair price for Ells at about $18 Million, 6 years, for $108 Million.  While we were sad to see such an excellent player go, we did the cost benefit analysis, & never argued that the Sox should have tried to match the bidding.  I haven't heard or seen too many tears shed over this loss, as we saw it as inevitable.  As real baseball fans, we calculated the overpayment, & weren't willing to mortgage our futures over an excellent, but over-priced player.  So, we concurred with letting him walk.

    Of course, any sane mind understands that the Red Sox got the best years out of Ells on the cheap.  We payed him what we were obligated to pay him as he neared Free-Agency, & not a dime more.  When he wanted the huge over-valued contract in FA, we all agreed it wasn't worth the price, despite our acknowledgemnt that he is one of the premier CF'r, leadoff guys in the game today.  Again, we let him walk without so much as a minor groan from the faithful.  In fact, we all enjoyed quite the laugh at watching the Yankees blow their wad once again.  ;)  I'm sure I will need to remind this little Stiffy once again that it was the Yankees who did the overpaying, & not the Red Sox, so his thesis about Red Sox fans over-valuing Ells in comparison to Papi simply doesn't hold water.  Sorry to confuse you with logical arguements!  It's got to be tough looking at issues of cause and effect that follow, as your way of thinking doesn't follow the dictates of sound logic.

    As for Papi????   I might remind this sad sack that his mental midget mentor argued vociferously against giving Papi his 2013 & 2014 "golden parachute" contract.  Ironic, isn't it?  This mental midget arguing that it's "Red Sox fans" who under-value Papi in comparison to THE YANKEE CONTRACT?  LOL    Again he has likely missed the irony, so I will have to spell it out for the slow of mind........   WE (Red Sox Fans here in Boston) were definitely OK with paying Papi for a lifetime of service in this most recent 2 year contract.  In fact, most of us will be A OK with giving him a one year extension for the 2015 season simply on the HOPE that Papi's aging body can hang in there for one LAST year.  This lowlife????  He will once again rise to the occasion & do his typical Papi bashing.  More irony.......  If we had listened to this half-wit with respect to Papi's 2013 - 2014 contract, Red Sox fans would not be still celebrating the 2013 World Series Championship.  If we had undervalued Papi, as this clown did, and let him walk, as this clown would have, we would not be WORLD CHAMPIONS yet again.  3 Titles!  All 3 in large part to Papi!  & this clown is going to lecture Boston Red Sox fans about undervaluing Papi????   HUH!  Laughable!  

    Strangely enough, Lil' Bill may have stumbled upon the truth with respect to squaring up Papi's lifetime earnings with Ells NEW FOUND contract with THE YANKEES (NOT THE RED SOX).  Perhaps that little fact about Ells' new contract being with a different team???  Perhaps I should slow down so his non-sequitur mind can catch up?  A bit too much logic for the weak of mind???

     

    Pearls of wisdom cast down to the swine.....  ;)  Don't even bother reading this Stiffy, you'll just end up hopelessly confused.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: A Somewhat Troubling Factoid...........

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to solareclipse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oritz is the face of the 3 Red Sox WS in the last decade, and here is Ellsbury, more popular with Red Sox fans (sure they deny it but it was true) getting 40 million more in 7 years than Ortiz has made his entire 17 year MLB career !!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

    [/QUOTE]

    Do you have anything to support this claim that Ellsbury is more popular than Ortiz?  Poll results, jersey sale stats, anything? 

    [/QUOTE]

    He has nothing.  Ortiz sells more jerseys and makesx more off the field. It is silly to claim anything else. But it doesn't fit softy's narrative. Who cares about how much more Ellsbury is going to make? Ortiz has never a free agent in his prime and doesn't play a position. He has made way above market value at DH so he and his ex wife are doing alright .

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSPCB73. Show RSPCB73's posts

    Re: A Somewhat Troubling Factoid...........

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    As DAD would say .............  "SON, its called TIMING" !!!!

    [/QUOTE]

    Exactly! One could have said, Ellsbury will make more in one year than Ted Williams and Babe Ruth made in their entire careers!

    Red Sox 2013 World Series Champs.  Patriots 2014 Super Bowl Champs???!!!

     
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    Re: A Somewhat Troubling Factoid...........

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to solareclipse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oritz is the face of the 3 Red Sox WS in the last decade, and here is Ellsbury, more popular with Red Sox fans (sure they deny it but it was true) getting 40 million more in 7 years than Ortiz has made his entire 17 year MLB career !!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

    [/QUOTE]

    Do you have anything to support this claim that Ellsbury is more popular than Ortiz?  Poll results, jersey sale stats, anything? 

    [/QUOTE]

    He has nothing.  Ortiz sells more jerseys and makesx more off the field. It is silly to claim anything else. But it doesn't fit softy's narrative. Who cares about how much more Ellsbury is going to make? Ortiz has never a free agent in his prime and doesn't play a position. He has made way above market value at DH so he and his ex wife are doing alright .

    [/QUOTE]


    Oh, the OP is Softy? That explains a lot.

     
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    Re: A Somewhat Troubling Factoid...........

    In response to solareclipse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Oritz is the face of the 3 Red Sox WS in the last decade, and here is Ellsbury, more popular with Red Sox fans (sure they deny it but it was true)

     

    [/QUOTE]

    hahahaha.  this sentence is so dumb i just needed to quote it and laugh.  hahahahahahahahahaha.

     
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    Re: A Somewhat Troubling Factoid...........

    Ellsbury is also a lot younger than Ortiz, Ellsbury would not have got such a large contract if he was born 10 years earlier.  The inflation rate in players salaries is well above average.

    Also Ellsbury plays defense, and at a premium position as well.

     

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: A Somewhat Troubling Factoid...........

    Ellsbury.  Popular.  Yes.  Never more popular than Big Papi.  Period.  As always, any valid point you raise about Jacoby is completely blown with your hilariously weird fixation on  erasing any positive notions about him.

     
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    Re: A Somewhat Troubling Factoid...........

    It troubles me that some people have strange obsessions and believe in non-physical entities, but whadda ya gonna do?

     
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    Re: A Somewhat Troubling Factoid...........

    In response to solareclipse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ellsbury.  Popular.  Yes.  Never more popular than Big Papi.  Period.


    Space, it can only be settled with factual evidence. I'm certain your statement is false, because I know something about humanity that you know, too, but repress. I kinow what's more popular in the Boston market, based on the market's prevailing "physical" likes and dislikes;)

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, the clown is an expert on racism.

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: A Somewhat Troubling Factoid...........

    In response to solareclipse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ellsbury.  Popular.  Yes.  Never more popular than Big Papi.  Period.


    Space, it can only be settled with factual evidence. I'm certain your statement is false, because I know something about humanity that you know, too, but repress. I kinow what's more popular in the Boston market, based on the market's prevailing "physical" likes and dislikes;)

     

    [/QUOTE]

    True indeed.  What we need is some factual evidence.  I have only anecdotal evidence:  Every Sox fan that I have known over the last  7 years puts Big Papi on the Mount Rushmore of Sox legends, position varying usually only by amount of Yaz love of said fan.  And, while there is wide debate over his place, Ellsbury, at best amongst the group of fans/Sox followers I have had personal dealings with, Ellsbury tops out as middle of the pack Sox legend, worthy of a few great "remember thats??" and a part of 2 world titles.  Just the people I know personally (all my friends from Worcester/Boston, all my Sox fan friends who I used to fight the empire with in New York, my papa, my family as a whole, and pretty much everyone except the odd papi hater here on the board), but, without the empirical evidence of, say, a poll, no one of these people that I actually really know would put Ellsury anywhere near Papi in respect or Sox love.  Not a one.

    Pure anectodally, do you actually know, have you ever met, or has anyone even posted on this board, anything about loving/respecting Ellsbury more than Papi?  Or, is it so insidious, this Bostonian racism, that even when there is no even anecdotal evidence of a bias facoring Ellsbury over Ortiz, that it must be secretly what the collective Bostonian racist ethos truly believes?  

     

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: A Somewhat Troubling Factoid...........

    besides the $$$$ the yankees are spending on jacoby...the other BRIGHT spot to him joining the pinstripes is that Jacoby is now on softlaw's favorite team.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.  WHOOPS.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: A Somewhat Troubling Factoid...........

    In response to solareclipse's comment:

    I didn't ask for angry rants and comment about "let me explain why this has happened", I asked if this somehwat troubled you. I noted that many don't care, so those who don't care should skip this thread. 

    I know why it's happened, which is obvious. 

    As for the Boston market's attempt to pretend that Ellsbury wasn't more popular than Ortiz, Pedroia is more popular than Ortiz. So, having never heard the silly term "game changer" reapeated about Pedroia, lets look at MLB site Chinese jersey sale rankings:

    1. Buster Posey, San Francisco Giants
    2. Mariano Rivera, New York Yankees
    3. Yadier Molina, St. Louis Cardinals
    4. David Wright, New York Mets
    5. Matt Harvey, New York Mets
    6. Bryce Harper, Washington Nationals
    7. Derek Jeter, New York Yankees
    8. Manny Machado, Baltimore Orioles
    9. Mike Trout, Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim
    10. Yasiel Puig, Los Angeles Dodgers
    11. Hyun-Jin Ryu, Los Angeles Dodgers
    12. Miguel Cabrera, Detroit Tigers
    13. Dustin Pedroia, Boston Red Sox
    14. Matt Kemp, Los Angeles Dodgers
    15. Clayton Kershaw, Los Angeles Dodgers
    16. Sergio Romo, San Francisco Giants
    17. Andrew McCutchen, Pittsburgh Pirates
    18. Yu Darvish, Texas Rangers
    19. Pablo Sandoval, San Francisco Giants
    20. Justin Verlander, Detroit Tigers

    The "premium defensive position" was a very bad explaination on the obvous reason for the difference, which wasn't the issue raised by this thread. 

    Ortiz not playing a position doesn't change anything about how absurd Ellsbury's career earnings are over Ortiz's career earnings. And the dim bulb who said "Ted Williams", Ortiz didn't play in the pre-Embarrassing Society era. 



    How does relate to Ellsbury vs Ortiz? So Pedroia sold more, it isn't like he is not the best player on team. He has two world series and a lot of hardware than Ortiz. He also makes more than Ortiz. However it wasn't Pedrois greetIng the crowd after the bombing and lead the parade. So yes he is less popular than Ortiz. Let me know when Ellsbury opens a night club, sells salsa, and actually endorse a know product?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: A Somewhat Troubling Factoid...........

    In response to solareclipse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yes, agreed on the lack of more than anecdotal "evidence".

    Every Sox fan that I have known over the last  7 years puts Big Papi on the Mount Rushmore of Sox legends

    'I'm sure you know that how fans rank a palyer isn't the same thing as popularity with fans. Rice is on "Mount rushmore", but he wasn't more poplar than Fred Lynn, period;)

    How many times have you heard "he's my favorite player", and it's not the best player on the team. Many, many times. 

    Popularity is based on human emotion, which is present in all persons. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir;)

    Ironically, the drone from Ellsbury doters was always "game changer". Ortiz was "clutch". 

    Switching gears, Space, you couldn't make a better script for the emotional wake from Ellsbury jilting his many Red Sox "my favorite player" fans. I saw it coming many years ago, but wasn't certain it would be the Yankees. 

    It's going to be fun pulling against Ellsbury, isn't it folks, something his defenders like to say that his few detractors were doing when he was with the Red Sox;)

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Comparing Ortiz/ Ellsbury to Rice/Lynn is interesting, but only from a distance.  Certainly, in the mid to late 70s in Boston, an element of racism may have come into the more favored Gold Dust twin.  But, beyond this, and maybe the fact that both Lynn and Ellsbury played CF and could run, it goes nowhere.  

    Just so we undertand where I am coming from, Jim Rice was my favorite alltime red stocking until he was supplanted by David Ortiz.  

    But Jim Rice was brooding and stand-offish.  Chose not to engage with the media.  He was an enigma to fans.  Ortiz is the polar opposite.  There is no reasonable comparison of Rice and Ortiz in popularity, other than most people let their awesome respective bats speak for themselves.  

    Really, as you point out, without empirical evidence, it is impossible to compare fan favorite status.  But, it is seriously prepostorous to believe that Papi, even before this magical year, was anthing but an all-time fan favorite.  The only time I ever heard negativity towards the big fella was when idiots on this board and in the media were calling on him to hang em up in 2009 and 2010 when he was still knocking 30 HRS/close to 100 RBIs (but hadnt yet gone to Degobah to master the Jedi Skills of inside out, compact swings/ using what picthers are giving taught by Yoda Gonzalez), and all last year from your boy Bill.  

     

     
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    Re: A Somewhat Troubling Factoid...........

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to solareclipse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yes, agreed on the lack of more than anecdotal "evidence".

    Every Sox fan that I have known over the last  7 years puts Big Papi on the Mount Rushmore of Sox legends

    'I'm sure you know that how fans rank a palyer isn't the same thing as popularity with fans. Rice is on "Mount rushmore", but he wasn't more poplar than Fred Lynn, period;)

    How many times have you heard "he's my favorite player", and it's not the best player on the team. Many, many times. 

    Popularity is based on human emotion, which is present in all persons. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir;)

    Ironically, the drone from Ellsbury doters was always "game changer". Ortiz was "clutch". 

    Switching gears, Space, you couldn't make a better script for the emotional wake from Ellsbury jilting his many Red Sox "my favorite player" fans. I saw it coming many years ago, but wasn't certain it would be the Yankees. 

    It's going to be fun pulling against Ellsbury, isn't it folks, something his defenders like to say that his few detractors were doing when he was with the Red Sox;)

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Comparing Ortiz/ Ellsbury to Rice/Lynn is interesting, but only from a distance.  Certainly, in the mid to late 70s in Boston, an element of racism may have come into the more favored Gold Dust twin.  But, beyond this, and maybe the fact that both Lynn and Ellsbury played CF and could run, it goes nowhere.  

    Just so we undertand where I am coming from, Jim Rice was my favorite alltime red stocking until he was supplanted by David Ortiz.  

    But Jim Rice was brooding and stand-offish.  Chose not to engage with the media.  He was an enigma to fans.  Ortiz is the polar opposite.  There is no reasonable comparison of Rice and Ortiz in popularity, other than most people let their awesome respective bats speak for themselves.  

    Really, as you point out, without empirical evidence, it is impossible to compare fan favorite status.  But, it is seriously prepostorous to believe that Papi, even before this magical year, was anthing but an all-time fan favorite.  The only time I ever heard negativity towards the big fella was when idiots on this board and in the media were calling on him to hang em up in 2009 and 2010 when he was still knocking 30 HRS/close to 100 RBIs (but hadnt yet gone to Degobah to master the Jedi Skills of inside out, compact swings/ using what picthers are giving taught by Yoda Gonzalez), and all last year from your boy Bill.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    He is ingore Ellsbury is Native American, and Lynn is white. Which really defeats his comparison base around race.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: A Somewhat Troubling Factoid...........

    Fact Jake has been ripped apart on this forum for over 5 years by a lot of people

    fact Ortiz has only been discussed in the sense of value of years to sign and never in regards to his ability to play on a consistent basis.

     

     

     
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