A total rebuild was the better long-term option

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: A total rebuild was the better long-term option

    geo, are you going on record that Greinke is a sure thing to earn his 147 million over the next 6 years?

     
  2. This post has been removed.

     
  3. This post has been removed.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A total rebuild was the better long-term option

    In response to carnie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to carnie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I call them the crybaby brigade because if they weren't crying about Ben, I can guarantee they would find something to cry about. Most of them anyway. moonslav and tom-uk are usually very good posters who seem to be unhappy with the moves this offseason. But guys like softlaw, alibiike and ADG have been whining as long as I've seen them posting on this forum.

    I'm upset. I had great hopes when the slate was wiped clean by the big trade. 

    I see little to hope for in 2013, but I supposed greater miracles have happened before. I'm mostly upset about the fact that I don't see any of these moves helping us in 2014.

    Since I don't know what offers Ben has made, it's hard for me to fault him for not getting the players I liked, but I am not impressed with the players he has signed so far. Naps is a good fit. Victorino will help us. Uehara was my favorite signing, and D Ross will work out OK.

    [/QUOTE]

    I totally get that moon my friend. All I can say about 2013 so far is that the team should be fun to watch. Hopefully Lester can get some of his mojo back and we can at least be in the chase for a good part of the year. Other than that, the Sea Dogs might be very good, and it will be interesting to see how the Pawtucket rotation fares. I personally would rather have seen Linares in the outfield than Gomes, but judging by what I've been reading you, me and jimedfred might be the only ones that think that.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'll be in Maine this summer to catch a Sea Dogs game. I may avoid Boston this year.

    I will be seeing the Sox in Houston though. I look forward to that. I may road trip to dallas again.

    [/QUOTE]


    You and I and southpaw will have to get together in Portland.

    [/QUOTE]

    1 years ago, I caught a game with Critter. maybe he'll be in Maine this summer too. I'll be there for the 2-3 weeks surrounding the 4th of July.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A total rebuild was the better long-term option

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:
    [QUOTE]


    That's surprisingly unfair coming from you.  You criticised my use of the word "decent" when describing Victorino's pre-2012 splits vs RHP.  Not "great", "decent".  I gave you 5 examples off the top of my head of three Sox sluggers - not CF, sluggers - and two Sox CFs all at or near HOF level and their platoon splits to validate "decent" when describing Victorino's career splits vs RHP.

    Put another way, if a mid .700s negative split OPS from a great fielding, great running CF isn't "decent"....what would be "decent"?  Mid-800s alongside a presumed 1.000 vs lefties?  So that would be Willie Mays that you expect?  That is "decent" in your opinion?

    [/QUOTE]

    Sorry, even if you take away the gross overpay out of the equation, Victorino is not a "decent hitter" vs RHPs. That was my point.

    The fact that his poor split is vs RHPs makes it harder to accept, since we fave righties abut 65% of the time.

    I love his fielding. Although his base-running may decline a bit over the term of the contract, it's a nice plus.

    I have said that Victorino will help us get better as compared to last year, but in my opinion, and it is just an opinion, all of our deals should have been with 2014 and beyond in mind. 

    I get the argument that all these shorter deals do just that, but I disagree. These deals take money from a resricted budget both this year and some over the next year or two. They may prevent us from getting a great FA next season or trading for a high-priced player over the next year or more. 

    In general, I had hoped we would have signed younger FAs that have upside potential or look to get better over the next 2-3 years and not decline. I don't feel we did this. Again, I have never pretended to smarter than our GMs, but this is a discussion board, and giving opinions is what we are all here for (except softy, of course).

    As for the HOF'ers with bad splits, that was a different era. When you go back and look at Yaz's splits and the team we had back then, there really was no choice to platoon for him (not that they would have either- lest they bruise his ego). There were no bench players with a consistently better OPS vs LHPs to play instead of Yaz anyway. I went through the same argument with CC (vs LHPs), but at least CC's weakness was exposed in only 35% of the games.

    [/QUOTE]

    This is much ado about nothing.  I believe a weak OPS split in the mid-.700s from a great fielding and running CF is "decent".  That was the small, initial and only point I made that you are disputing.  You don't agree.  What would a "decent" weak split be in your opinion?  .800?  .900?  The latter is a HOF slam dunk performer, right?  Can you name a few modern CFs with a weak side split in excess of .800?

    [/QUOTE]

    For one thing, I'm not assuming SV will hit mid 700's vs RHPs, but have said I'd be Ok if he repeats his .787 number he posted in 2 of the last 3 years. Maybe I am expecting too much for $13M a year. I hope we don't get his career .732 number or lower.

    I realize his defense and base running help a lot. I realize his great numbers vs LHPs help a lot. My point is that when we face RHPs, our line-up looks weaker now, and the fact that we face them 65% of the games scares me.

    SV will be our RF'er next year unless we trade Ells. He may stay there if Bradley comes up in 2014. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but my guess is there are not many OF'er making $10M or more who have huges splits differentials with the bad split being vs RHPs.

    There were 63 OF'ers who qualified with PAs last year: SV placed 62nd in OPS vs RHPs.

    There were 62 OF'er from 2010-2012: SV placed 58th at .701.

    Let's take away 2012 and pretend it was a fluke. From 2009-2011 there were 63 OF'ers and SV placed 44th at .756.

    Talking just hitting vs RHPs, I see SV in the bottom 3rd percentile. That is not decent to me. I guess we can argue semantics forever, but I see SV as a negative on offense vs 65% of the starters in MLB. 

    Counting his defense, assuming he really is GG quality- unlike CC- and his speed, perhaps one could argue that his overall package vs RHPs is "decent", but that wasn't the point I made. This team is going to have serious issues in 2/3rds of our games. The SV signing did not help that.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: A total rebuild was the better long-term option

    I call them the crybaby brigade because if they weren't crying about Ben, I can guarantee they would find something to cry about. Most of them anyway. moonslav and tom-uk are usually very good posters who seem to be unhappy with the moves this offseason. But guys like softlaw, alibiike and ADG have been whining as long as I've seen them posting on this forum.

    [/QUOTE]

    Thanks Carnie, I supported Tito his critics were mental midgets for the most part.  With Theo becasue the good out weighed the bad until the end.  He admitted after leaving that he should have stayed more disciplined.  He also blamed himself for not rejecting the desires of  the marketing branch (LL) of the front office.  Most of the anti-crybabies were in lock step with Theo.  Where is the introspection of Joe B., Pike, Hfx, ....

    I think the unwavering optimism of this crew is heartening but naive.  

    The Mets didn't rebuild and look where they are!

    You can't have your cake and eat it too! The 2013 mediocre Sox just papered over the cracks.

    A total rebuild would have enhanced the chances of another great run of prospects.   Not turning Papi, Ells, and Lester into prospects makes the Sox more likely to be mediocre for a long time.  For example, the Sox could have traded Papi and used the return plus Lester to get Myers.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A total rebuild was the better long-term option

    Not turning Papi, Ells, and Lester into prospects makes the Sox are more likely to be mediocre for a long time.  For example, the Sox could have traded Papi and used the return plus Lester to get Myers.

     

    Not sure what we could get for Papi at his contract, or if he would OK the deal, but I have been saying we should have traded all our FAs to be next winter and most of those for 2014 to stock up our farm. Then, make some deals and signings that bring us younger players under team control for 3+ years.

    That was my general plan. It sounds very similar to yours, except we'd have the draft pick for Papi.

    My second general point was that if we were not going to shoot fo 2014 and beyond, why play it half way? 

    (I gave my specifics on a number of plans on other threads.)

    Either go for it in 2013, or plan for beyond. We did neither.

     
  8. This post has been removed.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: A total rebuild was the better long-term option

    In response to tom-uk's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    A total rebuild would have enhanced the chances of another great run of prospects.   Not turning Papi, Ells, and Lester into prospects makes the Sox are more likely to be mediocre for a long time.  For example, the Sox could have traded Papi and used the return plus Lester to get Myers.

    [/QUOTE]

    Coulda woulda shoulda.  The Rays had a surplus of pitching to trade from.  Us not so much.  Are you so sure Jon Lester is done as a premier pitcher.  I think not.

    Being a great GM is easy from the armchair.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: A total rebuild was the better long-term option

    In response to carnie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to carnie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I call them the crybaby brigade because if they weren't crying about Ben, I can guarantee they would find something to cry about. Most of them anyway. moonslav and tom-uk are usually very good posters who seem to be unhappy with the moves this offseason. But guys like softlaw, alibiike and ADG have been whining as long as I've seen them posting on this forum.

    I'm upset. I had great hopes when the slate was wiped clean by the big trade. 

    I see little to hope for in 2013, but I supposed greater miracles have happened before. I'm mostly upset about the fact that I don't see any of these moves helping us in 2014.

    Since I don't know what offers Ben has made, it's hard for me to fault him for not getting the players I liked, but I am not impressed with the players he has signed so far. Naps is a good fit. Victorino will help us. Uehara was my favorite signing, and D Ross will work out OK.

    [/QUOTE]

    I totally get that moon my friend. All I can say about 2013 so far is that the team should be fun to watch. Hopefully Lester can get some of his mojo back and we can at least be in the chase for a good part of the year. Other than that, the Sea Dogs might be very good, and it will be interesting to see how the Pawtucket rotation fares. I personally would rather have seen Linares in the outfield than Gomes, but judging by what I've been reading you, me and jimedfred might be the only ones that think that.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'll be in Maine this summer to catch a Sea Dogs game. I may avoid Boston this year.

    I will be seeing the Sox in Houston though. I look forward to that. I may road trip to dallas again.

    [/QUOTE]


    You and I and southpaw will have to get together in Portland.

    [/QUOTE]

    I live in Portland as well.  We can all get drunk and make fun of softlaw

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A total rebuild was the better long-term option

    Being a great GM is easy from the armchair.

    Easier yet is being an armchair poster rater.

     

    ;)

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A total rebuild was the better long-term option

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to carnie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to carnie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I call them the crybaby brigade because if they weren't crying about Ben, I can guarantee they would find something to cry about. Most of them anyway. moonslav and tom-uk are usually very good posters who seem to be unhappy with the moves this offseason. But guys like softlaw, alibiike and ADG have been whining as long as I've seen them posting on this forum.

    I'm upset. I had great hopes when the slate was wiped clean by the big trade. 

    I see little to hope for in 2013, but I supposed greater miracles have happened before. I'm mostly upset about the fact that I don't see any of these moves helping us in 2014.

    Since I don't know what offers Ben has made, it's hard for me to fault him for not getting the players I liked, but I am not impressed with the players he has signed so far. Naps is a good fit. Victorino will help us. Uehara was my favorite signing, and D Ross will work out OK.

    [/QUOTE]

    I totally get that moon my friend. All I can say about 2013 so far is that the team should be fun to watch. Hopefully Lester can get some of his mojo back and we can at least be in the chase for a good part of the year. Other than that, the Sea Dogs might be very good, and it will be interesting to see how the Pawtucket rotation fares. I personally would rather have seen Linares in the outfield than Gomes, but judging by what I've been reading you, me and jimedfred might be the only ones that think that.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'll be in Maine this summer to catch a Sea Dogs game. I may avoid Boston this year.

    I will be seeing the Sox in Houston though. I look forward to that. I may road trip to dallas again.

    [/QUOTE]


    You and I and southpaw will have to get together in Portland.

    [/QUOTE]

    I live in Portland as well.  We can all get drunk and make fun of softlaw

    [/QUOTE]

    Don't need spirits to do that.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: A total rebuild was the better long-term option

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Seeking approval is manifest poor character. I agree, Moonslav and Tom-USSR approve of the moves Ben has made this winter. They also did not protest loudly when the Crawford press conference took place.

    [/QUOTE]


    moon and tom most certainly do not approve of Ben's moves so far. I however really do like the way the winter's shaping up. Reading comprehension really isn't your strong suit is it?

     
  14. This post has been removed.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: A total rebuild was the better long-term option

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We can all get drunk

    Nice, your favorite pastimes.

    [/QUOTE]


    I don't drink, but making fun of you sounds like fun :-)

     
  16. This post has been removed.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: A total rebuild was the better long-term option

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Moonshwemp and Tom-USSR have not done anything to protest any of these signings. I've been specific in saying that the overall value and fit grades for Ross and Napoli are reasonable moves, if not professionally closed for better value. Shane and Dempster and Drew are profiles I said, before the fact, to avoid like the plague.

    I've seen no condemnations in advance or post hoc on the part of two posters who desperately seek approval from other posters.

    [/QUOTE]

    Unlike you who desperately seeks attention, approving or disapproving.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A total rebuild was the better long-term option

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Seeking approval is manifest poor character. I agree, Moonslav and Tom-USSR approve of the moves Ben has made this winter. They also did not protest loudly when the Crawford press conference took place.

    [/QUOTE]

    Complete lies.

    This from the guy that the day after the CC signing lobbied for CC to be our leadoff hitting RF'er and "Jake to be our 4th OF'er"!

    What a joke!

     

    I have been very vocally against the Ben signing. Learn how to read.

    I was for offering Napoli $33M/3 just as you were for offering J Guthrie $10m/2. Just because Ben signed Naps for $6M more than what I suggested, doesn't mean I was "for the deal".

    This just shows how you need to lie and distort to try and tear down others, so your pitiful record doesn't look so bad.

    SV: bad

    JG: bad

    DR: not terrible, but way too much money.

    MN: not bad fit, but $6M too much.

    RD: bad

    SD: bad

    Uehara: great signing

    How you can get that I have supported Ben's signings out of this further exposes your siliness.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: A total rebuild was the better long-term option

    Being a great GM is easy from the armchair.

    [/QUOTE]

    The day BoobyV was hired there was a caption thread of his pic, I wrote,  Ticking Time-Bomb.

    Theo admitted his failures (CC and Lackey) which many of us predicted at the time. It is better to call it straight rather than to always believe just because you follow the laundry.  I thought the Cameron signing was wise (oops) and AGon would be a perennial MVP candidate (no longer).

    Rob Neyer used to write about how smart the Sox FO was, I thought he was right, but who could think that now.  Henry went on record that James was sidelined and we know James was against the CC signing and Ben was for it.   Things went so wrong LL called the Dodger trade "the Denver resurrection".

    I am worried that the Sox leadership has become second rate.  Henry said he bought Liverpool because he had maximized baseball revenue!!   Henry is on a pretty bad roll: his business closed, Liverpool is tanking, and the $160m Sox verdict from Vegas, 28 - 40 to 1 for the 2013 WS.  

    Yet the "koolaid brigade" still trust Henry who hired BV and Ben.

    Ben's two best moves so far Aceves and Ross, enough said!

    Warner and Henry (LL ?) will make loads when they sell the Sox which I bet will be not too far away.  Smart move by them, but the team is leaderless at the rudder.  It's just my opinion, a guy changing nappies many time zones away it shouldn't bother others.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A total rebuild was the better long-term option

     

    I've seen no condemnations in advance or post hoc on the part of two posters who desperately seek approval from other posters.

    Try learning how to read.

    I am being criticized on several threads that you have been on about being overly negative about the signings.

     

    I was never for the CC signing even before the deal. I said I wouldn't even offer him $12M a year x 4. I guess that wasn't "loud enough" for the master demagogue.

    The day we signed him I specifically called him a "glorified platoon player," whose contract would "cripple this team for 7 years." Maybe I should have yelled it "louder", but I was being drowned out by a clown who was calling for CC to be moved to RF since he was a "great GG fielder", and the same clown who was arguing for us to "bench Jake so Cam could start, even against RHPs."

     

    One shouldn't have to scream to be logical.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A total rebuild was the better long-term option

    Ben's two best moves so far Aceves and Ross, enough said!

    You mean moving Aceves to closer?

    Aceves was a Theo signing.

    I do think the Scutaro trade was good. It allowed us to sign Ross, Shoppach and Padilla and netted us a decent young pitcher who will be under team control long after Scoot's control expired.

    Uehara was a snice get.

    Ciriaco as well.

    The Pods signing and then reacquiring was masterful.

    Getting Breslow was nice and cheap.

     

    Still, your point is well taken... not that impressive so far.

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: A total rebuild was the better long-term option

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ben's two best moves so far Aceves and Ross, enough said!

    You mean moving Aceves to closer?

    Aceves was a Theo signing.

     

    Well spotted Mr. Moon.

     

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: A total rebuild was the better long-term option

    In response to tom-uk's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ben's two best moves so far Aceves and Ross, enough said!

    You mean moving Aceves to closer?

    Aceves was a Theo signing.

     

    Well spotted Mr. Moon.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I thought Padilla was a pretty good move. At least until Bobby V overworked him.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: A total rebuild was the better long-term option

    In response to tom-uk's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Being a great GM is easy from the armchair.

    [/QUOTE]

    The day BoobyV was hired there was a caption thread of his pic, I wrote,  Ticking Time-Bomb.

    Theo admitted his failures (CC and Lackey) which many of us predicted at the time. It is better to call it straight rather than to always believe just because you follow the laundry.  I thought the Cameron signing was wise (oops) and AGon would be a perennial MVP candidate (no longer).

    Rob Neyer used to write about how smart the Sox FO was, I thought he was right, but who could think that now.  Henry went on record that James was sidelined and we know James was against the CC signing and Ben was for it.   Things went so wrong LL called the Dodger trade "the Denver resurrection".

    I am worried that the Sox leadership has become second rate.  Henry said he bought Liverpool because he had maximized baseball revenue!!   Henry is on a pretty bad roll: his business closed, Liverpool is tanking, and the $160m Sox verdict from Vegas, 28 - 40 to 1 for the 2013 WS.  

    Yet the "koolaid brigade" still trust Henry who hired BV and Ben.

    Ben's two best moves so far Aceves and Ross, enough said!

    Warner and Henry (LL ?) will make loads when they sell the Sox which I bet will be not too far away.  Smart move by them, but the team is leaderless at the rudder.  It's just my opinion, a guy changing nappies many time zones away it shouldn't bother others.

    [/QUOTE]

    This is such a premature rush to judgment it's ridiculous.  What about the prospects we got from the Dodgers?  And you haven't even seen any of this offseason's acquisitions play in a Sox uniform.

    You have to be desperate to stoop to such a low level with this stuff.  Disappointing.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: A total rebuild was the better long-term option

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We can all get drunk

    Nice, your favorite pastimes.

    [/QUOTE]

    Lighten up Shirley.

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share