Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?

    In Response to Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?:
    Who said that Ellsbury won't continue to peak and even improve on his 30-30 stats? We saw Yaz bust out at a later age, from a guy who never hit more than 20 homers in a season and was a single-doubles hitter, to 44 homers, later 40 and become a serious power threat. Sure, Cherington will listen, but unless the offer is overwhelming, he'd be a fool to make that trade. Maybe this will be the bridge year, that Theo talked of a couple of years ago? Too many needs and questionable resources at hand to fill those needs. Perhaps they'll have to wait until Middlebrooks and some of the players in the system are ready to play MLB. Time will tell.
    Posted by GhostofTito


    For every Yaztrzemski or Luis Gonzalez who peak later there are one hundred Joe Charboneau's who peak too early. 

    Neither of us knows if it will continue.  We have the same history to look at.  I would think based on his history he is less likely.

    However, if you are right, that might be more reason to think about moving him.  right now he has two years left and that is not changing, courtesy of Mr. Boras.  His value is probably at the highest NOW.  Next year, he is just an another option year rental.

    So while you are thinking about other late bloomer names to drop, I suggest you take in a Rangers World Series game and see how the remnants of the Mark Teixeira trade are doing. Those kids might do something with one more win that Yaz was unable to do even with a late career surge...
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?

    trading Ellsbury is the only way to get a top of the rotation starter, if Cherington decides that is what is needed.  I would trade Iglesias before Bogaerts, but that's me (I think Bogaerts already has the better bat, and the scouts say he has elite defensive skills).  If Ells cannot be extended, and insists on going to arbitration this year and next, where he will get quite expensive, Cherington would be derelict in his duties NOT to explore trading Ells in a package with Iglesias (or Bogaerts) and Weiland for a #1 or #2 type starter who is still under team control for a couple of years.

    That said, where can they get a good young starter without a trade?  Darvish.  Posting fee is expensive, but the Sox have the money and they would keep their farm intact and not give up a #1 draft pick.

    If the Sox got Darvish, and signed a one or two reclamation projects (Haren/Wang maybe) the Sox would have enough starting pitching without even moving Aceves into the rotation:  Beckett, Lester, Buchholz, Darvish, Wang/Harden/Doubront/Tazawa/Weiland/Wake?  Move Aceves into the rotation and you'd have an extremely solid 1-5 with ample options for the 6ht and 7th starters.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?

    Abraham seems to forget that the Sox get Buccholz back and can move Aceves into the rotation. 

    I don't think he "forgot". I you may have forgotten that Aceves may not work out as a starter, and has a much better history as a reliever.

    With a few bargain SP signings and two (maybe 3, depending on Papelbon and Wheeler) good RP signings, and you avoid over paying for a mediocre starter in FA, and you don't have to trade Youk out of desperation (and at a time his trade value is at its lowest).

    His trade value may not get any higher, so you could look at it as selling before it gets lower. He still has 2 years of team control and I suspect the other team would do a thourough physical before agreeing to any trade.

    The other factor in determining value is the demand. The fact that Youk plays 3B and 1B expands the teams that could use him, but really the teams will be limited by their ability to pay his contract (unless we swap close to even salaries). That means only teams in contention would be interested in Youk, but they'd probably only want to give up prospects to get him, unless they have a surplus in an area we need, or we involve a thrid team. If StL loses Pujols and Milwaukee loses Fielder, maybe something could be worked out there. I read somewhere StL may not want to pay Carpenter $15M in his last season of 2012. Perhaps we could trade Youk, Weiland, and Ranaudo for Chris.

    If a trade for a starter is made, it is much more likely that Ellsbury is the trade bait. 

    Well, we certainly could get much more for Jacoby than Kevin.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?

    In Response to Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?:
    Perhaps we could trade Youk, Weiland, and Ranaudo for Chris.
    Posted by moonslav59
    I think I like that deal, and it could actually be doable. Running out a top 4 of Beckett, Lester, Carpenter and Buchholz would be formidable. I'd hate gixing up Youk and Ranaudo but hey...
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?

    You have to wonder why St Louis is hesitant to spend 15 million for Carpenter and why the Sox spending that, while giving up their starting 3Bman, their best pitching prospect and another prospect with some actual big-league exposure, makes sense.

    But Ells could garner a young #1 or #2 starter with a few years of team control, I should think, especially packaged with the same two prospects.  That is the only reason I think Ells is more likely the trade target.  More teams want him.

    I do expect Youk to have a better year next year than he had this year.  That might not raise his value a whole lot, as he will be a year older and a year closer to FA, but it should not get worse, IMO.  Trading him for prospects during the season to a contender that can sign him to an extension would be ideal, if Middlebrooks looks ready.  But to trade him in the off-season?  That seems to present too many issues without answers.  But you never know.  Maybe Milwaukee or St. Louis knocks Ben's socks off with an offer.  Youk for Carpenter straight up?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?

    In Response to Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?:
    You have to wonder why St Louis is hesitant to spend 15 million for Carpenter
    Posted by parhunter1
    It could be that St Louis is thinking about what it will take to keep Pujols. If that's their thinking, then any trade involving Youk and Carpenter likely becomes moot.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?

    You have to wonder why St Louis is hesitant to spend 15 million for Carpenter...

    Because they may lose him in 1 year anyways, and they may need the money to keep Pujols.

    ...and why the Sox spending that, while giving up their starting 3Bman, their best pitching prospect and another prospect with some actual big-league exposure, makes sense.

    1) Teams have given up close to this for just a 2 month rental.
    2) Perhaps we could extend Carpenter or even manage a sign a trade.



    But Ells could garner a young #1 or #2 starter with a few years of team control, I should think, especially packaged with the same two prospects.  That is the only reason I think Ells is more likely the trade target.  More teams want him.

    I don't think we'd need to give Renaudo with Ells to get a young #1/2 guy.

    I do expect Youk to have a better year next year than he had this year. 

    I do too.

    That might not raise his value a whole lot, as he will be a year older and a year closer to FA, but it should not get worse, IMO. 

    It will get worse as time goes by. Right now, assuming he passes the physical, he's got 2 full years of team control. Next year. he will have 1 and be a year older.

    Trading him for prospects during the season to a contender that can sign him to an extension would be ideal, if Middlebrooks looks ready.  But to trade him in the off-season?  That seems to present too many issues without answers.  But you never know.  Maybe Milwaukee or St. Louis knocks Ben's socks off with an offer.  Youk for Carpenter straight up?

    I think we could trade him for prospects, then flip the prospects for a pitcher.

    I also think that if you figure Youk's curve (and throw out 2011), one could expect a .900 to.925 OPS in 2012, and .875 to .900 in 2013. Very good numbers indeed. However, I do think we could do pretty well with this platoon at 3b until Middlebrooks is ready:
    Career:
    Aviles vs RHPs: .703 (.787 in 2010)
    Lowrie vs LHPs:.919 (.876 in 2011)
    I don't think it is unreasonable to think we might get a combined 3B OPs of about .775 - .825 in 2012.
    The loss of about .100 points on 3B OPS is very significant, but if we upgrade RH (even if with just a nice RH'd platoon guy), bring Papi back (or get Fielder), and get the expected improvement from Crawford, our offense could actually be better than 2011 without Youk. Remember, You did not give us .900+ ball for much of 2011 anyways, and we led the league in offense.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from fenway155z. Show fenway155z's posts

    Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?

    Youk and Bowden for Michael Young...just sayin
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?

    In Response to Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?:
    Youk and Bowden for Michael Young...just sayin
    Posted by fenway155z
    Where would you play Young? At 3rd?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?

    In Response to Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?:
    Youk and Bowden for Michael Young...just sayin
    Posted by fenway155z

    I doubt the beloved Michael Young would waive his no-trade rights to go from the two-time defending American League champions to a third-place team. And let's not forget that the 35-year-old Young is owed $16 million in each of the next two seasons.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?

    Youk, Lowrie, Reddick, and Ranaudo

    for

    SP: Saun Marcum (1 arb year left/made $3.95M in 2011)
    RF: Corey Hart  (12
    :$9M, 13:$10M)

    or

    4year's of control
    12
    :$5.5M, 13:$7.75M, 14:$11.25M, 15:$13M club option ($0.6M buyout)
    for
    SP: Yovani Gallardo

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?

    Red Sox need to trade Ellsbury, not Youk. Youk has little trade value and will likely net a high draft pick if he signs with another team at the end of next year.

    Ellsbury will not be extended or signed as a FA, and his trade value will decline if he is not traded this winter.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?

    Wakefield has not worked out as either a starter or a pen arm. Aceves will do fine as a #4 or #5 starter or as a reliever. Wakefield cost 3.75M in 2011, which is another Epstein embarrassment.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from GhostofTito. Show GhostofTito's posts

    Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?

    As Notin mentioned, Texas has done a briliant job of scouting and researching players they've traded for or signed.
    Hamilton, Cruz, Napoli, Andrus, Feliz, Adams, Harrison, all came in trades, with Beltre as a FA signing.
    They've done a great job of developing their own starters, while building the position players and bullpen on trades and signings.
    Kinsler, Young and Moreland are the position players who are products of their farm system.
    Two AL Championships in two years, speaks well for their organization.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?

    In Response to Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?:
    In Response to Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade? : The Sox will do their best to keep Jacoby.
    Posted by craze4sox


    6/106 should do it..remember, weaver, a borass client, signed with arb years left..some guys like the security over the chance of getting hurt..
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?

    In Response to Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?:
    In Response to Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade? : 6/106 should do it..remember, weaver, a borass client, signed with arb years left..some guys like the security over the chance of getting hurt..
    Posted by southpaw777


    I think we will all feel better if Jacoby signs but anything with Boras involved is tuff southpaw.  Kemp will be the big prize out there at some point but the dodgers probably wouldn't want a Boras discussion either.  I see it more up to Jacoby, if he wants to stay he will.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?

    In Response to Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?:
    In Response to Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade? : I think we will all feel better if Jacoby signs but anything with Boras involved id tuff southpaw.  Kemp will be the big prize out there at some point but the dodgers probably wouldn't want a Boras discussion either.  I see it more up to Jacoby, if he wants to stay he will.
    Posted by craze4sox


    exactly my point craze..I think if Youk is gone it could make it easier...
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Immortal9. Show Immortal9's posts

    Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?

    Buster is not moving to 1B.

    "We're both in agreement that it's best for the club and Buster to be a catcher for us," manager Bruce Bochy told the San Francisco Chronicle. "We need his mind, too, as well as his physical talent, to help this staff."


    In Response to Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?:
    Youkilis to the Giants makes no sense whatsoever. Where will he play? DH?  They have Sandoval at 3B, and Buster Posey is going to be their 1B, because they are never letting him get behind the plate again...
    Posted by notin

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rutland76. Show Rutland76's posts

    Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?

    It appears that Peter Abraham read this thread recently and is now talking potential trades.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?

    Changes need to be mad for sure, but I see no impact moves for 2012. We will field pretty much the same line-up we had in 2011. The only question mark remains RF. Do we stick with Reddick/Kalish, and an all LH outfield once again. Or do we sign a FA veteran RHB to platoon. My guess is the latter, although we could trade for a solid RHB to play everyday...Francouer would be my pick.

    Since what to do with Lackey is now moot, we will need another SP. What I would do (and what others here have expressed) is to start Aceves. Dice-K should be back in June, and if he's good to go, we could move Aceves back to the pen.
    I like Bedard and really doon't think we got to see his full potential. I say keep him as the other LH to compliment Lester. If Buch can go the rotation is:

    Lester
    Beckett
    Buch
    Bedard
    Aceves

    And  (I'll take grief for this) Wake out of the BP as a 6th stater.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?

    In Response to Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?:
    Changes need to be mad for sure, but I see no impact moves for 2012. We will field pretty much the same line-up we had in 2011. The only question mark remains RF. Do we stick with Reddick/Kalish, and an all LH outfield once again. Or do we sign a FA veteran RHB to platoon. My guess is the latter, although we could trade for a solid RHB to play everyday...Francouer would be my pick. Since what to do with Lackey is now moot, we will need another SP. What I would do (and what others here have expressed) is to start Aceves. Dice-K should be back in June, and if he's good to go, we could move Aceves back to the pen. I like Bedard and really doon't think we got to see his full potential. I say keep him as the other LH to compliment Lester. If Buch can go the rotation is: Lester Beckett Buch Bedard Aceves And  (I'll take grief for this) Wake out of the BP as a 6th stater.
    Posted by Alibiike


    Anything is possible alibiike, but I think Wake and Tek may be gone.  Rebuilding begins with the less effective elders which I think will be good for the team.  We still need to add a veteran presence who the guys can respect and trust to get the job done so a guy like Cuddyer and bringing back Papi and Scuter may be all we need offensively.

    Pitching is another story but I don't see Wake being part of it unless loyalty brings him back.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?

    Wake was better or equal to about 50 MLb starters last year who all had a significant role with their team. There is more to "loyalty" involved with bring back Wake as a 6th starter. Money and merit.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from looneyman. Show looneyman's posts

    Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?

    Ells, Youk, Reddick & Ing for Kemp & Kershaw
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?

    In Response to Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?:
    Ells, Youk, Reddick & Ing for Kemp & Kershaw
    Posted by looneyman


    Sure.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?

    In Response to Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade?:
    In Response to Re: Abraham - Forget FA, how about a trade? : I doubt the beloved Michael Young would waive his no-trade rights to go from the two-time defending American League champions to a third-place team. And let's not forget that the 35-year-old Young is owed $16 million in each of the next two seasons.
    Posted by hill55


    With a chance to be the everyday 3B? He'd go to the Nats for that chance.
     
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