Adrian Gonzalez on HBP -" Puts Cabrera/ Fielder at risk"

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Adrian Gonzalez on HBP -" Puts Cabrera/ Fielder at risk"

    In Response to Re: Adrian Gonzalez on HBP -" Puts Cabrera/ Fielder at risk":
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Adrian Gonzalez on HBP -" Puts Cabrera/ Fielder at risk" : Seriously - what's the history with Albers?  I don't remember any sort of controversy with him at all last year, other than that he stunk up the last two months. I didn't see the play, so I can only go by the situation, and common sense, which says: 1) A 2-2 count with one on and nobody out is not the likely time for retaliation. 2) Retaliation for showing up another pitcher is not all that common - if it had been Beckett hitting Fielder, I'd probably agree with you. 3) Albers is in the seventh inning of an 8-0 game.  I think it's safe to say his roster spot is not set in stone.  I don't think retaliation is his number one priority. 4) Fielder was hit on the calf with a sinking fastball.  If you want to send a message, do you throw a sinker? 5) If Albers hit Fielder on purpose, he would have wanted Fielder to know he hit him on purpose.  You think he engineered all this ambiguity to disguise his intent?  What is the purpose of that?  Phil Coke didn't hide his intent.
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    slomag;

    You seem like a good guy & fan; however, I'm not going to repetitively debate this issue ad infinitum. You have your opinion, I have mine, and we should probably leave it at that. I shall add this caveat: Why did Leyland feel he had to retaliate/protect his player by blatantly throwing at AGon? Leyland is a smart, objective, experienced Mgr and as a result retaliation is not generally part of his repertoire, so apparently he felt he had a good reason.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Adrian Gonzalez on HBP -" Puts Cabrera/ Fielder at risk"

    It looked like to me that Albeirs was throwing at him.

    They needed to be backed off the plate but not thrown at.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Adrian Gonzalez on HBP -" Puts Cabrera/ Fielder at risk"

    In Response to Re: Adrian Gonzalez on HBP -" Puts Cabrera/ Fielder at risk":
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Adrian Gonzalez on HBP -" Puts Cabrera/ Fielder at risk" : slomag; You seem like a good guy & fan; however, I'm not going to repetitively debate this issue ad infinitum. You have your opinion, I have mine, and we should probably leave it at that. I shall add this caveat: Why did Leyland feel he had to retaliate/protect his player by blatantly throwing at AGon? Leyland is a smart, objective, experienced Mgr and as a result retaliation is not generally part of his repertoire, so apparently he felt he had a good reason.
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

    That's assuming Coke was not acting on his own.  I think Leyland's smarter than to have a pitcher retaliate down two in the 8th inning, with a runner on second.  And if not, I think he's smart enough to have Villareal do it, so if there is an ejection, he can go to the left-hander against Ortiz.  Villareal throws harder than Coke anyway.  You think this smart, objective, experienced Mgr decided to throw at Gonzalez's head, but to take a couple MPH off the ball first?

    I agree this is only a mildly interesting debate, but it's slim pickings on the board today - don't feel like you have to reply if you're not motivated.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Adrian Gonzalez on HBP -" Puts Cabrera/ Fielder at risk"

    In Response to Re: Adrian Gonzalez on HBP -" Puts Cabrera/ Fielder at risk":
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Adrian Gonzalez on HBP -" Puts Cabrera/ Fielder at risk" : That's assuming Coke was not acting on his own.  I think Leyland's smarter than to have a pitcher retaliate down two in the 8th inning, with a runner on second.  And if not, I think he's smart enough to have Villareal do it, so if there is an ejection, he can go to the left-hander against Ortiz.  Villareal throws harder than Coke anyway.  You think this smart, objective, experienced Mgr decided to throw at Gonzalez's head, but to take a couple MPH off the ball first? I agree this is only a mildly interesting debate, but it's slim pickings on the board today - don't feel like you have to reply if you're not motivated.
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    It was 8-0 in the 7th, and very few pitchers these days throw at hitters without Mgr approval; when Melancon was on the Yankees, he threw at a RS hitter; Girardi went out to the mound, told him off, and immediately yanked him (no pun intended), and he was history soon after.

    With retaliation, the goal usually is not to hit the batsmen with the hardest thrower; the goal IMO is to send a message that you can't keep throwing at their hitters, i.e, to protect them. Torre was criticized for refusing to do this (usually) .
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mattb5fon. Show mattb5fon's posts

    Re: Adrian Gonzalez on HBP -" Puts Cabrera/ Fielder at risk"

    my favorite recent memory is when CC Sabathia beaned Vincente Padilla in dodger stadium. EPIC
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Adrian Gonzalez on HBP -" Puts Cabrera/ Fielder at risk"

    In Response to Re: Adrian Gonzalez on HBP -" Puts Cabrera/ Fielder at risk":
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Adrian Gonzalez on HBP -" Puts Cabrera/ Fielder at risk" : It was 8-0 in the 7th, and very few pitchers these days throw at hitters without Mgr approval; when Melancon was on the Yankees, he threw at a RS hitter; Girardi went out to the mound, told him off, and immediately yanked him (no pun intended), and he was history soon after. With retaliation, the goal usually is not to hit the batsmen with the hardest thrower; the goal IMO is to send a message that you can't keep throwing at their hitters, i.e, to protect them. Torre was criticized for refusing to do this (usually) .
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

    It was 8-0 in the 7th when Albers hit Fielder.  It was 9-7 in the 8th the following day when Coke hit Gonzalez.  The throw behind his head went to the backstop and allowed Pedroia to take third base.  It's hard to imagine Leyland orchestrating that.  And if he did, why bring in Coke to do it?  If that first pitch hits Gonzalez in the head, it's probably an ejection, even if the teams had not been warned already.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from upperco1. Show upperco1's posts

    Re: Adrian Gonzalez on HBP -" Puts Cabrera/ Fielder at risk"

    In Response to Re: Adrian Gonzalez on HBP -" Puts Cabrera/ Fielder at risk":
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Adrian Gonzalez on HBP -" Puts Cabrera/ Fielder at risk" : Pretty much what I said.
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

    Pretty much NOT what you said
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Adrian Gonzalez on HBP -" Puts Cabrera/ Fielder at risk"

    In Response to Re: Adrian Gonzalez on HBP -" Puts Cabrera/ Fielder at risk":
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Adrian Gonzalez on HBP -" Puts Cabrera/ Fielder at risk" : Pretty much NOT what you said
    Posted by upperco1[/QUOTE]

    Then what do you call this?

    posted at 4/9/2012 9:11 AM EDT

    AGon's comment that it never went through his mind is not genuine. Albers has a history of doing this and here's guessing he know this. Having said that, Coke should have been tossed, fined, and suspended for a month; Albers too, or they'll never stop this stuff. See Goodell.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Adrian Gonzalez on HBP -" Puts Cabrera/ Fielder at risk"

    In Response to Re: Adrian Gonzalez on HBP -" Puts Cabrera/ Fielder at risk":
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Adrian Gonzalez on HBP -" Puts Cabrera/ Fielder at risk" : It was 8-0 in the 7th when Albers hit Fielder.  It was 9-7 in the 8th the following day when Coke hit Gonzalez.  The throw behind his head went to the backstop and allowed Pedroia to take third base.  It's hard to imagine Leyland orchestrating that.  And if he did, why bring in Coke to do it?  If that first pitch hits Gonzalez in the head, it's probably an ejection, even if the teams had not been warned already.
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    I confused the 2 incidents, sorry about that. And the way you're presenting this, makes me realize you may have a point about Leyland not being involved.
     
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