AGon in RF--again

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    AGon in RF--again

    First, I have to say Francona gives every indication of wanting to avoid doing this.  If AGon plays in right and gets hurt, the season could be over.

    That said, the Pirates series underscores just how weak the Sox hitting is on the road in NL parks, at least right now.  Bad enough the Sox lost the first two games, but the third game was almost as bad.  The Sox won because of 4 Pirates errors and 3 unearned runs.  That's five weak-hitting games in a row including the last two at Fenway against the Padres. 

    And the Phillies pitching is much better than the Pirates'. 

    Putting AGon in RF and Ortiz at 1B solves the problem of who bats 5th.  It also replaces the worst hitting slot, RF, with a very good hitter, Ortiz.  

    Maybe not tonight, however, because Lee is a lefty and is pitching great this month.  Better, I guess, to go with Cameron and McDonald. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from betterredthandead. Show betterredthandead's posts

    Re: AGon in RF--again

    Do not put weak hitter in the 5 spot! Move Scutaro to #2 and put Pedroia in the 5 hole. Tito can be quite dense.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: AGon in RF--again

    Beyond the injury risk, this is not an easy choice.

    The RS defensively become a pretty ordinary to bad team. You move a GG 1B to RF where he will poor. Ortiz isn't as pathetic as some people think but he is poor. Youkilis is average at best at third, same with Scoot.

    And the Phillies have a lot of LH pull hitters so the balll is sure to find the two guys we are trying to hide on the right side. I don't know the one bat overcomes the two defensive down grades.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from --the--yazzer. Show --the--yazzer's posts

    Re: AGon in RF--again

    how is it better to go with the  2 worst OF'S in the game today.
    cameron and mcdonald s/b released and bring up somebody from the farm, anybody. if they don't have something better on the farm, than the farm system really is in trouble.
    drew s/b used as a defensive replacement late in the game. late enough so he doesn't have to bat.
    thank you theo!

    "no bad signing goes unpunished."
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: AGon in RF--again

    In Response to AGon in RF--again:
    [QUOTE]First, I have to say Francona gives every indication of wanting to avoid doing this.  If AGon plays in right and gets hurt, the season could be over. That said, the Pirates series underscores just how weak the Sox hitting is on the road in NL parks, at least right now.  Bad enough the Sox lost the first two games, but the third game was almost as bad.  The Sox won because of 4 Pirates errors and 3 unearned runs.  That's five weak-hitting games in a row including the last two at Fenway against the Padres.  And the Phillies pitching is much better than the Pirates'.  Putting AGon in RF and Ortiz at 1B solves the problem of who bats 5th.  It also replaces the worst hitting slot, RF, with a very good hitter, Ortiz.   Maybe not tonight, however, because Lee is a lefty and is pitching great this month.  Better, I guess, to go with Cameron and McDonald. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]


    I wouldn't overreact with the "how weak the Sox hitting is in the NL. The Sox had nine hits in each of the two losses. They batted about .266 in those two games, which is only a few points below their season average. They just couldn't get the clutch hit. They went through the same thing with a full lineup at the beginning of the year. It happens. And the Sox were without Crawford.

    Of course they had just six hits in the win (.188 BA) and their team BA for the three games was around .240, but they still outhit the Pirates for the series.

    There's no doubt that not having Ortiz makes the lineup weaker and that sooner or later, something has to be done about RF. I'm still mixed about the A-Gon to right scenario. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from splendidsplinterteddyballgame. Show splendidsplinterteddyballgame's posts

    Re: AGon in RF--again

    They could put a broom out in RF and it'd be better than Cameron or McDonald.  What sorry excuses for a major league player.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: AGon in RF--again

    In Response to Re: AGon in RF--again:
    [QUOTE]Beyond the injury risk, this is not an easy choice. The RS defensively become a pretty ordinary to bad team. You move a GG 1B to RF where he will poor. Ortiz isn't as pathetic as some people think but he is poor. Youkilis is average at best at third, same with Scoot. And the Phillies have a lot of LH pull hitters so the balll is sure to find the two guys we are trying to hide on the right side. I don't know the one bat overcomes the two defensive down grades.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    I think the Red Sox Defensively are a little bit better than ordinary.  You realize they are tied for the fewest errors in the AL and are within a percentage point of being the team leader in fielding percentage?

    But I do agree that Ortiz at first and Agon at RF is a huge drop off defensively.  Bloop single to RF anyone?  First to third on singles hit to RF anyone.

    Didn't Johnny Bench play RF when he wasn't catching? RF for AGon has to be easier than for Bench.

    As far as getting hurt?  Really?  I would think a bigger threat of injury would be base running.  It would be one thing if they put him in LF and Beltre was on the team.  But who is Agon going to run into?  Ortiz?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1for89. Show 1for89's posts

    Re: AGon in RF--again

    In Response to Re: AGon in RF--again:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: AGon in RF--again : I think the Red Sox Defensively are a little bit better than ordinary.  You realize they are tied for the fewest errors in the AL and are within a percentage point of being the team leader in fielding percentage? But I do agree that Ortiz at first and Agon at RF is a huge drop off defensively.  Bloop single to RF anyone?  First to third on singles hit to RF anyone. Didn't Johnny Bench play RF when he wasn't catching? RF for AGon has to be easier than for Bench. As far as getting hurt?  Really?  I would think a bigger threat of injury would be base running.  It would be one thing if they put him in LF and Beltre was on the team.  But who is Agon going to run into?  Ortiz?
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover[/QUOTE]

    baseball reference

    C -- 1742 games
    OF -- 223
    3B -- 195
    1B -- 145

    There is some overlap, since multiple positions played in a single games are counted at each position for games played.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: AGon in RF--again

    I'd go w/Agon in right, get David at bats, think the injury danger is over-rated (probably easier to get injured playing first), get a better chance of an occasional hit with RISP the lack of which is the main reason for the slump; even though they weren't hitting like they are capable of hitting, sox miss Crawford and Lowrie in the line-up as well--and when Crawford returns I think we'll see a lot more of Reddick in right, adding more offense from that spot.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: AGon in RF--again

    by the way, what's the word on Lowrie, anyone know? last I heard he was getting a second opinion on the shoulder in LA . . 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: AGon in RF--again

    I think AGon in right is worth trying one time or even, say, for 3 or 4 innings.  If he or Big Papi makes bonehead plays, pull big Papi, put AGon on first, and you are right back to the current lineup. 

    Meanwhile, if AGon stays at 1B, the Sox have a terrific firstbaseman and hitter, but signficant holes in the lineup.  The unhittability of the Pirates pitching--by the Sox, anyway--is a harbinger for this road trip. 

    I am arguing in favor of moving AGon to RF, but with an intense awareness that it could screw up the defense and maybe even, unlikely though that is, AGon himself. 

    Longer term, I guess a 3-6 road trip won't be the end of the world--and it certainly hasn't happened yet. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: AGon in RF--again

    In Response to Re: AGon in RF--again:
    [QUOTE]I'd go w/Agon in right, get David at bats, think the injury danger is over-rated (probably easier to get injured playing first), get a better chance of an occasional hit with RISP the lack of which is the main reason for the slump; even though they weren't hitting like they are capable of hitting, sox miss Crawford and Lowrie in the line-up as well--and when Crawford returns I think we'll see a lot more of Reddick in right, adding more offense from that spot.
    Posted by soxnewmex[/QUOTE]

    I agree that Gonzales should be playing in RF and Ortiz first base.  If Drew wasn't having such a bad season, this might not be necessary.   They aren't getting any offense from right field.   Also if they make it to the World Series, they would be better prepared.  
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from pennasoxfan67. Show pennasoxfan67's posts

    Re: AGon in RF--again

    In Response to AGon in RF--again:
    [QUOTE]First, I have to say Francona gives every indication of wanting to avoid doing this.  If AGon plays in right and gets hurt, the season could be over. That said, the Pirates series underscores just how weak the Sox hitting is on the road in NL parks, at least right now.  Bad enough the Sox lost the first two games, but the third game was almost as bad.  The Sox won because of 4 Pirates errors and 3 unearned runs.  That's five weak-hitting games in a row including the last two at Fenway against the Padres.  And the Phillies pitching is much better than the Pirates'.  Putting AGon in RF and Ortiz at 1B solves the problem of who bats 5th.  It also replaces the worst hitting slot, RF, with a very good hitter, Ortiz.   Maybe not tonight, however, because Lee is a lefty and is pitching great this month.  Better, I guess, to go with Cameron and McDonald
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    Arghhh....that's like having our pitcher bat twice.  Automatic outs.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALaGatorAL. Show ALaGatorAL's posts

    Re: AGon in RF--again

    After watching the throws to first base lately, seeing what happened to Puljols in the back of my mind, I think A-Gon would be safer in RF !!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from betterdeadthanred. Show betterdeadthanred's posts

    Re: AGon in RF--again

    In Response to AGon in RF--again:
    [QUOTE]First, I have to say Francona gives every indication of wanting to avoid doing this.  If AGon plays in right and gets hurt, the season could be over. That said, the Pirates series underscores just how weak the Sox hitting is on the road in NL parks, at least right now.  Bad enough the Sox lost the first two games, but the third game was almost as bad.  The Sox won because of 4 Pirates errors and 3 unearned runs.  That's five weak-hitting games in a row including the last two at Fenway against the Padres.  And the Phillies pitching is much better than the Pirates'.  Putting AGon in RF and Ortiz at 1B solves the problem of who bats 5th.  It also replaces the worst hitting slot, RF, with a very good hitter, Ortiz.   Maybe not tonight, however, because Lee is a lefty and is pitching great this month.  Better, I guess, to go with Cameron and McDonald. 

    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    Do you know the meaning of "BEATING A DEAD HORSE"????

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Big-E. Show Big-E's posts

    Re: AGon in RF--again

    Although RF is a disaster (these days I'd rather see Reddick there instead of either Drew or Cameron, regardless of who's pitching), no way do you put Adrian out there at this point in the season. Play six more games, do the best you can, and then start planning for what to do in a WS (not that it's a certainty). A healthy Gonzalez is a monument, and should be protected as such. 

    How about that Miller ? What a blessing to have a guy throw two fine games under these circumstances ! And Salty looks better every day. If Buchholz, Lowrie and Crawford come back and stay healthy, I say RS win the division by 10 games. Even if Lackey's a non-factor.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from chuchos. Show chuchos's posts

    Re: AGon in RF--again

    Leave gonzalez at first.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from --the--yazzer. Show --the--yazzer's posts

    Re: AGon in RF--again

    In Response to Re: AGon in RF--again:
    [QUOTE]by the way, what's the word on Lowrie, anyone know? last I heard he was getting a second opinion on the shoulder in LA . . 
    Posted by soxnewmex[/QUOTE]

    here's a few words on lowrie; he's another injury about to happen.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from kbair. Show kbair's posts

    Re: AGon in RF--again

    In Response to Re: AGon in RF--again:
    [QUOTE]In Response to AGon in RF--again : I wouldn't overreact with the "how weak the Sox hitting is in the NL. The Sox had nine hits in each of the two losses. They batted about .266 in those two games, which is only a few points below their season average. They just couldn't get the clutch hit. They went through the same thing with a full lineup at the beginning of the year. It happens. And the Sox were without Crawford. Of course they had just six hits in the win (.188 BA) and their team BA for the three games was around .240, but they still outhit the Pirates for the series. There's no doubt that not having Ortiz makes the lineup weaker and that sooner or later, something has to be done about RF. I'm still mixed about the A-Gon to right scenario. 
    Posted by royf19[/QUOTE]


    excellent point! that is the key.
    as to the post and the chatter of the nation currently, i think that if francona puts gonzalez in right it will be because he wants to keep ortiz in a rhythm more than any other reason. he has always let players hit out of a slump (which is why he won't pull cameron or drew) and is wary of sitting someone who is hitting well.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from thee-yazzer. Show thee-yazzer's posts

    Re: AGon in RF--again

    put a-gon in right and leave the no-hit triplets in the dugout.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from CTJake14. Show CTJake14's posts

    Re: AGon in RF--again

    lineup is posted.  Gonzo at 1B, Cam in RF, Papi sitting.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: AGon in RF--again

    In Response to Re: AGon in RF--again:
    [QUOTE]lineup is posted.  Gonzo at 1B, Cam in RF, Papi sitting.
    Posted by CTJake14[/QUOTE]here ya go Jake the in full....
    RED SOX (45-32)
    Ellsbury CF
    Pedroia 2B
    Gonzalez 1B
    Youkilis 3B
    McDonald LF
    Varitek C
    Cameron RF
    Scutaro SS
    Beckett RHP (6-2, 1.86)

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: AGon in RF--again

    bummer
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: AGon in RF--again

    here are the guys with numbers against Lee and Becks respectively.... Red Sox vs. Lee: Gonzale 7-10, 1 HR; McDonald 2-5; Pedroia 4-11; Cameron 2-6, 1 HR; Scutaro 8-25; Youkilis 5-19,1 HR; Varitek 3-12; Drew 2-8; Ortiz 6-25; Ellsbury 1-8.

    Phillies vs. Beckett: Francisco 2-2; Ruiz 1-3; Utley 8-25, 2 HR; Howard 4-13, 1 HR; Victorino 2-7 Ibanez 2-11; Rollins 12-47; Polanco 4-4.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: AGon in RF--again

    In Response to Re: AGon in RF--again:
    [QUOTE]bummer
    Posted by soxnewmex[/QUOTE]

    Hardly cataclysmic.  Lee has pitched 4 games and over 30 innings in June and given up 1 run.  The Sox put three Ortiz's in the lineup and still lose tonight. 
     
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