AL East, 2 or 3 team race?

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?

    I disagree ... the Red Sox have the bats to be successful.

    The performance of the pitching staff will determine the Sox fortunes.

    On February 26, the Baltimore Orioles are the only team I'd count out of the AL East race.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?

    In Response to AL East, 2 or 3 team race?:
    Every year since 2009, I look at the Rays' lineup and say, "No way.  They can't hit, and Niemann and Wade Davis aren't as good as people think."  And while they can't hit, and Niemann and Wade Davis aren't as good as advertised, the Rays nevertheless contend each year.  Now they have Moore and a more experienced Hellickson, so I have to include them in the race, even though they still can't hit and their bullpen is likely going to be a mess.  Maybe it's Joe Maddon, maybe it's Friedman, but regardless the reason, I'm through dismissing them. As for the Sox, I think their roster is the weakest it's been in years, but if Beckett, Lester and Buchholz perform, they'll be competitive, too.  I think if they get off to a bad start, they'll have trouble because of last year, Valentine's personality, and the fact that they're not an offensive juggernaut like they've been.  They also need to stay healthy, and probably more than the Yankes or Rays do (given the state of the respective farm systems). Of course I'm biased toward the Yankees.  Even with my candle in the window for Montero, there's no doubt Pineda could markedly improve the rotation.  Adding Kuroda and a capable Hughes could make it dominant.  We will beat up bad and middling pitching as always, and a healthy Andruw Jones might add a lot offensively.  Thus, I see the Yankees as the favorites.  After all, they won the division last year, their pitching is projected to be better, Boston has not improved (and perhaps slid a bit or even more), and the Rays have added a front-line starter but little else to eliminate their weaknesses. The key for all three teams may be Toronto and Baltimore, and to a lesser extent the Angels and Tigers.  The top three in the East have traditionally feasted on the Jays and O's, and on the Central and West.  To the extent those teams are more competitive, and the other divisions more challenging (especially if there's only one wild card), they make pitching depth and balanced offense on the top three more important.  Again, I think that favors the Yankees, too.
    Posted by Yankenstein2


    The Sox have a good team and should be motivated after last season.  With some health and better pitching we can make the PS.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?

    RS have good hitting and suspect at best pitching.

    Rays have very good pitching and RP if it come through will be very tough because they still can not hit with only two guys (if I remember correctly) hitting over 280 to 300. They also brought Pena back who usually gets as many HR as he does other hits and usually is around 200.

    NYY are IMO the best in the ALE but will depend on how AR and MT hit this year. I'm not sure Cano can carry the team like he did last year and which Granderson will show up?

    I actually think the Jays have a shot this year don't know why but just a feeling!!!!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?

    It's a 2 team race.  NYY and Tampa.

    Sox simply have lost ground, they are worse than last year.  They had overachievers in the lineup, whose stats were pumped up against the bums in the league.

    The key to the Sox' failure last year was the pitching.  Remember when Theo was shopping for a starting pitcher for Game 162 last year... the game they needed to win to make the playoffs?

    They didn't get any more pitchers.  They lost their bullpen's back end and hope a setup man (who ran out of gas!) who has no success at starting can be #4, and a retread can be #5.  Pathetic.

    They have 3 proven starters that you can barely hope 1 pitches 200 innings.

    Then there's the vastly improved AL in general.

    This team has no chance for a playoff spot, and will be more interested in getting past Toronto than thinking postseason when September rolls around.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?

    In Response to Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?:
    I disagree ... the Red Sox have the bats to be successful. The performance of the pitching staff will determine the Sox fortunes. On February 26, the Baltimore Orioles are the only team I'd count out of the AL East race.
    Posted by hill55


    I think you may well be right.

    Every year the Habs - uh - the Blue Jays are almost ready to push.   Injuries have hurt them fairly often.


    I usually feel a little better (last September notwhithstanding) when the Sox put a little room between themselves and Toronto.


    The Rays and Jays add flavor to the division in a way that keeps the rest of us honest in our sense of ... entitlement.


    I wish we DIDN'T have that attitudde, but....
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?

    In Response to Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?:
    RS have good hitting and suspect at best pitching. Rays have very good pitching and RP if it come through will be very tough because they still can not hit with only two guys (if I remember correctly) hitting over 280 to 300. They also brought Pena back who usually gets as many HR as he does other hits and usually is around 200. NYY are IMO the best in the ALE but will depend on how AR and MT hit this year. I'm not sure Cano can carry the team like he did last year and which Granderson will show up? I actually think the Jays have a shot this year don't know why but just a feeling!!!!
    Posted by JimfromFlorida


    Jim,
    Health is the key to the Sox success with Youk being the key guy on offense. Not sure that I agree our pitching is suspect. Lester, Beckett & Buccholz all when healthy are equal to any teams top three this side of Philly. Lester and Beckett are both healthy and I'm pretty sure they both want to erase the memories of 2011. Early reports on Buchholz are positive too. So I don't see them as suspect. Bard in the 4 hole will be solid and should hold down that spot until Matsusaka's ready to return, then we have a bunch of guys vying for the 5th spot...I'd feel a lot better about our rotation had we added one more proven vet to the mix and we still may do just that. Our bullpen is deeper than it was at this time last year and we have plenty of quality arms in Bailey, Melancon, Morales & Aceves to close out games. As with all teams heading into spring the rest of the pen will take shape during the spring and we'll break camp with the best 12 guys we can and look to improve when the need arises.

    Clearly the Ray's rotation on paper appears to be better and so too does the Yanks and with Soriano, Robertson & Mo the Yanks have the best end game of the three...

    That said,

    The Rays rotation last year remained healthy and logged a ton of innings masking a suspect pen for most the year. Can they do it again? Moore look's to be the real deal and Jennings add another bat to thier lineup. So they'll be a tough out again this year. Last years successes are no more of a harbinger than our teams struggles. No two years are ever the same...especially with pitchers...

    The Yanks added a couple of solid arms in Kuroda and Pineda to CC, Nova, Garcia & Hughes...Only CC is a proven commodity Nova & Pineda are both young guns with huge upside, who struggle against lefthanded hitters and Pineda is still a two pitch pitcher fastball slider. However neither of them have proven that they can take the ball every 5 days and compete over the coarse of a full season (See Nova in the postseason and Pineda's splits from last year)...Kuroda and Garcia are both savy vet's middle of the roation types, both will benefit from the Yank's offense and pen. Hughes is an enigma and has yet to realize his full potential and as of today, appears to be the odd man out (He was signed to a 1 year non garanteed contract).

    So while the Sox rotation is "suspect" all three teams enter the spring with questions....
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?

    In Response to Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?:
    It's a 2 team race.  NYY and Tampa. Sox simply have lost ground, they are worse than last year.  They had overachievers in the lineup, whose stats were pumped up against the bums in the league. The key to the Sox' failure last year was the pitching.  Remember when Theo was shopping for a starting pitcher for Game 162 last year... the game they needed to win to make the playoffs? They didn't get any more pitchers.  They lost their bullpen's back end and hope a setup man (who ran out of gas!) who has no success at starting can be #4, and a retread can be #5.  Pathetic. They have 3 proven starters that you can barely hope 1 pitches 200 innings. Then there's the vastly improved AL in general. This team has no chance for a playoff spot, and will be more interested in getting past Toronto than thinking postseason when September rolls around.
    Posted by SoxFanInIL


    Bailey and Melancon are going to be disappointed to find that you don't consider them pitchers.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?

    In Response to Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?:
    It's a 2 team race.  NYY and Tampa. Sox simply have lost ground, they are worse than last year.  They had overachievers in the lineup, whose stats were pumped up against the bums in the league. The key to the Sox' failure last year was the pitching.  Remember when Theo was shopping for a starting pitcher for Game 162 last year... the game they needed to win to make the playoffs? They didn't get any more pitchers.  They lost their bullpen's back end and hope a setup man (who ran out of gas!) who has no success at starting can be #4, and a retread can be #5.  Pathetic. They have 3 proven starters that you can barely hope 1 pitches 200 innings. Then there's the vastly improved AL in general. This team has no chance for a playoff spot, and will be more interested in getting past Toronto than thinking postseason when September rolls around.
    Posted by SoxFanInIL


    How can Sox be worse this year?
    1. Bucholz and Youk are coming back ready and healthy
    2. Papi just lost 20 lbs.
    3. Lester and Beckett learned priceless lesson this offseason
    4. Bard and Aceves got their new career chances as Sox starting pitchers which you can't just expect them to fail since they are two of the best relievers in baseball
    5. Sox acquired ex-ROY closer Bailey and Astro's last year closer Melancon as our setup man
    6. we found nice platoons at RF with offense and defense
    7. we have bunch of low-cost starting depth can turn out to be some help at the bottom of rotation

    Can you tell me which part of 2012 RS do you think is worse than last season that you say we lost the ground in AL East?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?

    Right now I'd have to rank the Sox 3rd or 4th, given the pitching uncertainty. Even if the other two starters were named, we are not sure if they will be effective, until they have 3 or 4 starts under their belt.
    By May, we should know whether or not we have the horses to be competetive.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?

    As for the Sox, I think their roster is the weakest it's been in years,...

    You must really think Papelbon was king.

    2012's roster is better than 2011's due mainly to addition by subtraction:

    Gone:              Replaced by:

    Papelbon       Bailey   
    Lackey           Melancon
    Wake             Cook/Mortensen/Padilla
    Wheeler         Full year of Morales
    Weiland         Cook/Padilla/Mortensen/Silva/Miller
    Bedard           "                                                  "

    Drew              Ross
    Scutaro          Aviles/Iggy
    Lowrie           Punto/Aviles
    Varitek           Schoppach
    Reddick         Sweeney
    Cameron       "           "

    To me, this shows a clear gain over last year's roster. Look at most of the 2012 players production. It's hard to imagine anything worse.  




     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?

    I agree with Master Moon.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?

    This will be the first year the Rays finally live down to their budget. Rays are out. Toronto will pass them in the standings.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?

    It's kind of funny ... The Sox lineup is largely the same as it was last year, when they went into the season as the favorite. Now, they're being dismissed as a contender in the division.

    I think it's a three-team race with the Yankees having the advantage. As for the Rays, I will never count them out.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?

    In Response to Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?:
    It's kind of funny ... The Sox lineup is largely the same as it was last year, when they went into the season as the favorite. Now, they're being dismissed as a contender in the division. I think it's a three-team race with the Yankees having the advantage. As for the Rays, I will never count them out.
    Posted by LloydDobler


    Hardly. We had 6 SPs going into the 2011 season. Now we have 3, and people are dismissing Reddick and Lowrie, Scutaro, and even Pap as minimal losses, not to mention Wake.
    Also remember that many of the replacements come from the weaker NL, and we have no idea how they will perform in the ALE let alone Boston.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?

    In Response to Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?:
    This will be the first year the Rays finally live down to their budget. Rays are out. Toronto will pass them in the standings.
    Posted by TheExaminer


    How about a signature line about the Civil War and include the verb "eviscerate" into it somehow. Funny how you and AlibiIke love to use that word so much.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?

    In Response to Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?:
    In Response to Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race? : Hardly. We had 6 SPs going into the 2011 season. Now we have 3, and people are dismissing Reddick and Lowrie, Scutaro, and even Pap as minimal losses, not to mention Wake. Also remember that many of the replacements come from the weaker NL, and we have no idea how they will perform in the ALE let alone Boston.
    Posted by Alibiike

    I said "largely," not identical.
    Six of the eight every-day starters are back with Drew and Scutaro the only losses. Valid point on the pitching, though the three you mentioned are clearly our best three. But of the losses you mentioned, Papelbon was the only one that concerns me.
    My overall point was that as absurd as the expectations were last year, dismissing them this season is also absurd.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?

    No way I rank Tampa over Boston.

    Again, all things remainging equal, Boston and NY take 1st and 2nd in the division. But since I canot predict injuries, I have no clue what will happen except that it will be another interesting season.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?

    In Response to Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?:
    No way I rank Tampa over Boston. Again, all things remainging equal, Boston and NY take 1st and 2nd in the division. But since I canot predict injuries, I have no clue what will happen except that it will be another interesting season.
    Posted by jesseyeric

    Hey Jess ... hope your winter has been nice and balmy.
    Exactly, injuries. That's my main concern with the Sox. We have some guys who are already hurt and some others who have a bad history.
     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?

    In Response to Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?:
    In Response to Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race? : Hey Jess ... hope your winter has been nice and balmy. Exactly, injuries. That's my main concern with the Sox. We have some guys who are already hurt and some others who have a bad history.
    Posted by LloydDobler


    Hey Lloyd - all is good my brother. Definitely a strange Winter. I cannot remember a warmer one in my lifetime. I am thinking that because I bought a real Winter Coat for the first time, I jinxed the cold and snow. I am afraid that if I take out my leather, that ugly white precipitation will rear its ugly head.

    How's it going by you? You ready for some baseball? Love the avatar - only the greatest album of all time. Hope the family is well.

    You do realize now that by some, you will be considered an enemy of the state by saying hello to me. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?

    In Response to Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?:
    In Response to Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race? : Bailey and Melancon are going to be disappointed to find that you don't consider them pitchers.
    Posted by ThefourBs


    I'm not breaking the news to them.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?

    In Response to Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?:
    In Response to Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race? : Hey Lloyd - all is good my brother. Definitely a strange Winter. I cannot remember a warmer one in my lifetime. I am thinking that because I bought a real Winter Coat for the first time, I jinxed the cold and snow. I am afraid that if I take out my leather, that ugly white precipitation will rear its ugly head. How's it going by you? You ready for some baseball? Love the avatar - only the greatest album of all time. Hope the family is well. You do realize now that by some, you will be considered an enemy of the state by saying hello to me. 
    Posted by jesseyeric

    It was 81 here last week in Virginia. Crazy. I think it's been below freezing maybe seven or eight days this winter at most.
    And hey, by associating with the likes of you and Jete, among others, I've been called a traitor so many times!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?

    In Response to Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?:
    In Response to Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race? : It was 81 here last week in Virginia. Crazy. I think it's been below freezing maybe seven or eight days this winter at most. And hey, by associating with the likes of you and Jete, among others, I've been called a traitor so many times!
    Posted by LloydDobler


    Pike (Lowell) is definitely looking to round you traitors up and hang you at the Gallows.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: AL East, 2 or 3 team race?

    Agree with you that Rays cant hit.  But they can run on base.  That is why Boston's pitching need to do a good job to limit Rays getting on the base.  More they get on base, they can pressure the Boston's pitching staffs!!

    By getting Shoppach is not a steal of the deal, I think it is a great move where the Red Sox can collect as many inside Tampa Rays organization's information from Shoppach on how Maddon make his game plan on beating the Sox every year.

    Go Sox

     
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