Albers and Aceves - The edge over Tampa this time

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    Albers and Aceves - The edge over Tampa this time

    Since Tampa's emergence as a contender, there has been a recurrence of low scoring games won by the Rays over the Red Sox, particularly the games played at the Trop.  Often, the Red Sox get a strong performance out their starter, but the games are usually decided by the bullpens.  Because of Albers and Aceves with their ability to shut a team down for multiple innings, the Rays no longer have the edge in these type of affairs.  Sunday night's game was won because the Red Sox bullpen is not just Bard and Papelbon any more.  Seems they can rely on others in big situations, and their ability to do this for multiple innings gives them a real edge in extra inning games or games when the bullpen has to be extended for multiple innings.   

    Albers and Aceves value goes way beyond their surface stats.  They are game winners and staff savers.    

     
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    Re: Albers and Aceves - The edge over Tampa this time

    Albers and Aceves are good additions. Albers is having one of those "bounce" years that so many relievers do and Aceves is an under valued commodity, a rubber armed guy that can go short, long and spot start.

    I personally always thought that Ramiro Mendoza was a huge part of the great success the NYY had in the 90's and Aceves is similar. In fact he play that role for the 2009 NYY and appears to be doing it for the 2011 RS.

    Lot's can happen between now and the end of the season but it appears that Epstein has accumlated enough relief pitching that unless Pap and/or Bard go down the RS will have a pretty good bullpen. People are quick to make judgments when a new FA comes to town and starts badly, but another guy who is going well is Wheeler. His WHIP since coming off of the DL at the end of May is under 1.000. The BP numbers because of some hick-ups and guys pitching hurt (Wheeler - Jenks notably) are deceptive. This is a bullpen good enough to go deep into October with IMHO.

    Now the flip side of this of course is Tampa who had almost 100% turnover in their bullpen staff from last year. It has left Maddon needing to use lots of situational match-ups and hasn't allowed him to define roles as much as he would like to. Still it must be said the Tampa FO did a better job than many thought they could in rebuilding the pen from scratch and Maddon has gotten about as much as could be expected out of them.
     
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    Re: Albers and Aceves - The edge over Tampa this time

    Sheriff,

       After Wheeler and Jenks not working out, we certainly needed Aceves and Albers.  I was ready for Aceves to do well, remembering how he pitched for the New Amsterdam Highlanders.  I was especially pleased, realizing that he didn't fit into the mold there.  Edgy and effective.

      I have to give you kudos ...and a couple others...for picking Albers out as a possible standout.  It was somewhat because of the way his name came across when announced, but for what ever reason, he's been a big deal. 

      Wheeler maybe has not helped us that much yet, but for sure, he won't be helping the Rays over us.


       

     
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    Re: Albers and Aceves - The edge over Tampa this time

    In Response to Albers and Aceves - The edge over Tampa this time:
    [QUOTE]Since Tampa's emergence as a contender, there has been a recurrence of low scoring games won by the Rays over the Red Sox, particularly the games played at the Trop.  Often, the Red Sox get a strong performance out their starter, but the games are usually decided by the bullpens.  Because of Albers and Aceves with their ability to shut a team down for multiple innings, the Rays no longer have the edge in these type of affairs.  Sunday night's game was won because the Red Sox bullpen is not just Bard and Papelbon any more.  Seems they can rely on others in big situations, and their ability to do this for multiple innings gives them a real edge in extra inning games or games when the bullpen has to be extended for multiple innings.    Albers and Aceves value goes way beyond their surface stats.  They are game winners and staff savers.    
    Posted by Sheriff-Rojas[/QUOTE]

    I said earlier in the year I thought Aceves would be a better starter than a couple of guys once he through more innings.  I like the role he plays for us, without his contribution we may not be in first place.

    Cashman screwed up big by letting him go.
     
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    Re: Albers and Aceves - The edge over Tampa this time

    In Response to Re: Albers and Aceves - The edge over Tampa this time:
    [QUOTE]Sheriff,    After Wheeler and Jenks not working out, we certainly needed Aceves and Albers.  I was ready for Aceves to do well, remembering how he pitched for the New Amsterdam Highlanders.  I was especially pleased, realizing that he didn't fit into the mold there.  Edgy and effective.   I have to give you kudos ...and a couple others...for picking Albers out as a possible standout.  It was somewhat because of the way his name came across when announced, but for what ever reason, he's been a big deal.    Wheeler maybe has not helped us that much yet, but for sure, he won't be helping the Rays over us.    
    Posted by SinceYaz[/QUOTE]

    Thanks for the kudos, SY, but I didn't exactly "pick him out" as a standout.  I just acknowleged good performance early in the season and was hopeful for more of it.  Looks like we got it and more! 



    Another reason for posting this thread and the thread earlier in the season is that when I look at the front burner, I mostly see nitpicky threads highlighting flaws.  They are in first place afterall in spite some of recent injuries to key players.  They must be doing something right. 


     
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    Re: Albers and Aceves - The edge over Tampa this time

    In Response to Re: Albers and Aceves - The edge over Tampa this time:
    [QUOTE]Sheriff,    After Wheeler and Jenks not working out, we certainly needed Aceves and Albers.  I was ready for Aceves to do well, remembering how he pitched for the New Amsterdam Highlanders.  I was especially pleased, realizing that he didn't fit into the mold there.  Edgy and effective.   I have to give you kudos ...and a couple others...for picking Albers out as a possible standout.  It was somewhat because of the way his name came across when announced, but for what ever reason, he's been a big deal.    Wheeler maybe has not helped us that much yet, but for sure, he won't be helping the Rays over us.    
    Posted by SinceYaz[/QUOTE]Well that is the nature of building a bullpen, collecting lot's of pieces and hoping some combination sticks. Because relief pitchers are subject to such regular use they break down more often. Much of the physical break down is never talked about, it is just assumed that guys like Manny Delcarmen forgot how to pitch.

    As for Wheeler, I have found myself becoming this guys number one cheerleader. He had a physical issue to start the season but since he has returned from the DL he has been all you could ask for from a relief pitcher. Because of Albers emergence in a bullpen with Bard and Papelbon in it, the situation have been lower leverage but the results are all you can ask for.

    June: 8 appearances WHIP 0.913
    July: 7 appearances WHIP 0.556

    If Jenks can get healthy this year this becomes a very deep BP IMO.
     
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    Re: Albers and Aceves - The edge over Tampa this time

    In Response to Re: Albers and Aceves - The edge over Tampa this time:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Albers and Aceves - The edge over Tampa this time : Well that is the nature of building a bullpen, collecting lot's of pieces and hoping some combination sticks. Because relief pitchers are subject to such regular use they break down more often. Much of the physical break down is never talked about, it is just assumed that guys like Manny Delcarmen forgot how to pitch. As for Wheeler, I have found myself becoming this guys number one cheerleader. He had a physical issue to start the season but since he has returned from the DL he has been all you could ask for from a relief pitcher. Because of Albers emergence in a bullpen with Bard and Papelbon in it, the situation have been lower leverage but the results are all you can ask for. June: 8 appearances WHIP 0.913 July: 7 appearances WHIP 0.556 If Jenks can get healthy this year this becomes a very deep BP IMO.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    Katz,

      I realize Jenks and Wheeler have/had injury issues.  I kinda cringed when I wrote haven't worked out.  I should have added "yet."

      I am among the last to toss someone aside due to injury.  

      Even still, the emergence of A & A has been something we certainly needed.  With 40% of the season plus the playoffs ahead Jenks and Wheeler will certatinly be great to have as depth.

      
     
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    Re: Albers and Aceves - The edge over Tampa this time

    In Response to Re: Albers and Aceves - The edge over Tampa this time:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Albers and Aceves - The edge over Tampa this time : Well that is the nature of building a bullpen, collecting lot's of pieces and hoping some combination sticks. Because relief pitchers are subject to such regular use they break down more often. Much of the physical break down is never talked about, it is just assumed that guys like Manny Delcarmen forgot how to pitch. As for Wheeler, I have found myself becoming this guys number one cheerleader. He had a physical issue to start the season but since he has returned from the DL he has been all you could ask for from a relief pitcher. Because of Albers emergence in a bullpen with Bard and Papelbon in it, the situation have been lower leverage but the results are all you can ask for. June: 8 appearances WHIP 0.913 July: 7 appearances WHIP 0.556 If Jenks can get healthy this year this becomes a very deep BP IMO.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    Good for Wheeler too, especially him being a Rhode Island guy and all.  I agree.  Not enough love here for Wheeler.  Being his number one cheerleader, it behooves you to start a thread about him.  Bring your pompoms. 

     
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    Re: Albers and Aceves - The edge over Tampa this time

    In Response to Re: Albers and Aceves - The edge over Tampa this time:
    [QUOTE]Jenks has been terrific. Wheeler was the key pen man, last night. 1 year lower base deal with option was a good move. Since coming off the DL, Wheeler has been throwing strikes and pitching very well. Harnes claimed Wheeler stinks, but he meant Wakefield. Harness thinks AGon is still with the Padres.
    Posted by billbyboy[/QUOTE]

    Oh yes, Wheeler was a great move. He pitches in janitorial service and brings a 5+ era to the mound. Nice 3-mil investment.
    Softlaw still thinks Hanley is the Boston SS, and Jake mans CF for Fla.
     
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    Re: Albers and Aceves - The edge over Tampa this time

    In Response to Re: Albers and Aceves - The edge over Tampa this time:
    [QUOTE]Albers and Aceves are good additions. Albers is having one of those "bounce" years that so many relievers do and Aceves is an under valued commodity, a rubber armed guy that can go short, long and spot start. I personally always thought that Ramiro Mendoza was a huge part of the great success the NYY had in the 90's and Aceves is similar. In fact he play that role for the 2009 NYY and appears to be doing it for the 2011 RS. Lot's can happen between now and the end of the season but it appearsthat Epstein has accumlated enough relief pitching that unless Pap and/or Bard go down the RS will have a pretty good bullpen. People are quick to make judgments when a new FA comes to town and starts badly, but another guy who is going well is Wheeler. His WHIP since coming off of the DL at the end of May is under 1.000. The BP numbers because of some hick-ups and guys pitching hurt (Wheeler - Jenks notably) are deceptive. This is a bullpen good enough to go deep into October with IMHO. Now the flip side of this of course is Tampa who had almost 100% turnover in their bullpen staff from last year. It has left Maddon needing to use lots of situational match-ups and hasn't allowed him to define roles as much as he would like to. Still it must be said the Tampa FO did a better job than many thought they could in rebuilding the pen from scratch and Maddon has gotten about as much as could be expected out of them.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]


    Operative word is "appears". Unless Morales/Williams cuts it in the lefty role, they may become exposed in this area come crunch time.
    The Hill injury left a hole that's being masked right now.
    Fortunately, they have options in Miller/Douby to plug it.

    Theo has tried to cover all bases with pen depth acquisitions.
    Albers/Aceves was "dumpster-picking" that has solidified the pen's underbelly.
    Theo deserves credit there.
     
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    Re: Albers and Aceves - The edge over Tampa this time

    Softlaw was not right. Softlaw took the jellyfish 50/50 stance - and as Softlaw clearly stated: There's no such thing as being half right.

    Had he the guts to commit 100%, he would have been.
    What was right were the statements: "The team is priming themselves at an AGONE run. Excellent chance he'll be in Boston by the 7-31 trade deadline".
    And, "The team will make an all out run at Crawford". 

    Meanwhile, OKI, Hall and Wheeler are validating their worth...
     
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    Re: Albers and Aceves - The edge over Tampa this time

    In Response to Re: Albers and Aceves - The edge over Tampa this time:
    [QUOTE]Softlaw still thinks Hanley is the Boston SS, and Jake mans CF for Fla. In fact, Softlaw said that the Red Sox shoud guage interest in that deal. Harness "100% guaranteed that AGon would be with the Padres this spring". But, Hanley woud be a RH OF solution at a reasonable CBT cost. Softlaw was right.
    Posted by billbyboy[/QUOTE]

    Oh, BTW, how do you know what Softlaw said?
     
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