An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox

    In Response to Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]I was serious about this Standard Operating Procedure question and I would appreciate answers. What is the SOP on this by other teams? Do other teams schedule a press conference and make the announcement to a room full of media that players X and Y will not be a part of the 40 man roster this year? Just curious. Posted by UticaClub
    Posted by UticaClub[/QUOTE]

    Utica Club---When a team does NOT offer arbitration to a player who then becomes a free agent, it is usually obvious that the team has decided to cut bait with him.  Neither Wastefield or Putritek were offered any such arbitration, but every day you keep hearing Cherington or Lucchino saying that they would love to keep Jason a part of the Red Sox.  There was such another story today on that. Now we have two catchers and another young talent who will become a good RH hitting slugger for us as soon as his receiving is considered ML ready by mid-season and 2013 at the latest.  That means there is no room for Varitek and there shouldn't be.  He can no longer hit (he hit under 200 from mid-June on and 077 in September), he can't throw his grandmother out, and his leadership was AWOL in September when the team nearly mutineed against Francona and collapsed.  His time is up!!!!  We need to concentrate on improving our pitching and adding a RH hitting outfielder not named McDonald.  Instead, energy and  time is being wasted worrying about two players who haven't received one other offer from any other team.   They both need to go, finally and utterly.
     
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    Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox

    In Response to Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]I cannot believe I have to look at this over the hill catcher.  He cannot hit or run the bases.  His leadership qualities bite as well.
    Posted by jackbu[/QUOTE]

    Why are you assuming that he will be on the team?  Nobody else is making that assumption. So why are you?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox

    In Response to Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]I was serious about this Standard Operating Procedure question and I would appreciate answers. What is the SOP on this by other teams? Do other teams schedule a press conference and make the announcement to a room full of media that players X and Y will not be a part of the 40 man roster this year? Just curious. Posted by UticaClub
    Posted by UticaClub[/QUOTE]

    given the circumstances of the past season, the hiring of the new coach and gm, this is exactly what should be done...of course not singling out any player but making it clearly known that we are going with youth....
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from siestafiesta. Show siestafiesta's posts

    Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox

    Thankfully, I think the Shoppach signing finally sealed Tek's fate.  I can appreciate what he did for the team but it's time to let go.  He's done!!  Even as a backup catcher he was completely spent by the time Sept came around.  Can we please just move on.  I'd rather have Wakefield back at this point but that really isn't sayin much.
     
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    Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox

    In Response to Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]geez, seaBFred...those VTek stats are going to give me nightmare flashbacks of September...amazing that these two aged salamis even get their phone calls returned...
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    Georom4----I can't figure it out either.  Taking nothing away from what these two accomplished years ago, it was evident last season that these two salamis as you called them (on the mark I might add) had no business even being on the team.  The fact that between them they haven't received even one offer from any other team should be enough to convince Master Lucchino and his lackey GM that it is time for these two go hit the trail.  Since Varitek and Wakefield can't take the hint it is encumbent on the front office to finally show them the door.

    Wakefield was a human pinata on the mound almost all of the second half, while Varitek hit exactly 077 in September, and, get this.  Jason came to the plate 11 times with either the bases loaded or with runners on second and third.  Guess how many times he brought a runner home?  You guessed right..NONE!!!!!  Eight of those times he struck out.  Come on, what more evidence is needed to finally rid ourselves of these two sacred cows?
     
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    Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox

    it really is too bad that these guys cant exit gracefully....instead of appreciating them for what they gave us, we have to criticize them for what they no longer can do....I guess that today's salaries make pride a thing of the past...it really is all about the money...these guys have rings, respect, and appreciation for a lifetime...why do they want to muck it up by playing waaaayyyyy past their prime?

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox

    ...of course not singling out any player but making it clearly known that we are going with youth....

    You mean soon to be 32 year old Shoppach in decline for 3  straight years?

    Or, 34 year old Nick Punto (over 27 y/o Lowrie)?

    Or, soon to be 27 y/o Sweeney for 24 y/o Reddick?

    Or, soon to be 33 y/0 Silva with 143 IP the last 3 years?

    Or, offering 36 y/o Papi arbitration?

    Ohhhh, you must mean...

    Bringing back 27 y/o Andrew Miller and his career 5.79 ERA & 1.750 WHIP.
    Replacing old man Paps with to be 28 y/o Bailey & 27 y/o Melancon.

    Our opening day 25 man roster is likely to include...

    Scutty  37 in Oct.
    Papi    37 in Nov.
    Atch     36 in March
    Punto  34
    Youk   33 in March (an "old 33")

    Yes, we got rid of our aged back-up catcher and 6th starter. That makes us such young sprouts now!

    Going young does not always mean getting better. Our new young guys last year did not doo all that great.

    Weiland (24)  0-3  7.66  1.662
    Miller     (26)  6-3  5.54  1.815
    Reddick (24)  .784 OPS
    Lava      (23)  .738 OPS

    The good one...
    Morales  3.62  1.268

    I do think we look pretty good agewise, and not because we shed Wake and Vtek, but because our oldest players are not really our key players as with the Yanks. Papi is important, but with youk ready to DH next year, we should be Ok there. Losing Scutty might actually become a plus with added defense at the key SS position.

    I'm not sure replacing 30 year olds Paps and Dice will be gains, but 2013 looks to be a much younger team than 2011.
     
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    Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox

    In Response to Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox : Burrito, this farce is going to end very ugly one way or another.  It is clear that the Boston press, Radio and TV media and most of the fans do not want these guys back because they know these two are through, but for some idiotic reason the front office simply cannot let loose of the apron strings.  They have become sacred cows and Lucchino will be dam@ed if he will let them go.  So they potentially are there to take two vital roster spots that should go to more deserving players.  Do you know that in September Varitek came up 11 times with either the bases loaded or with runners on second and third and failed all 11 times?  Eight of those times he struck out.  He hit 077 in September and under 200 from mid-June on.  Wastefield was even more pathetic on the mound.  He became a human pinata on  the mound.  It is simply time for both of these bums to get lost.
    Posted by seabeachfred[/QUOTE]


    Your right. Fans admit that they want both to stay more for sentiment than skill long since past. In the end it will be Tek being released half way through 2012, and Wakefield being left off the play-off roster for the 100th time. Either way if we don't show them the respect they deserve - a firm thanks but no thanks here and now - then they will end up in a tumultuous situation and cause harm to the team.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox

    In Response to Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]a roving catching instructor.....doesnt our system already have coaches???? i guess Tek needs the money now that he has to support two families...I really think this might be why he isnt retiring....in the old days the money wasnt worth trashing your legacy and you would quit when you couldnt play...now you have these forty something players like Wake & Tek who will play for anyone as long as they get a check....trust me, Tek could care less about the Sox and being captain...he wants to get paid - even if he knows he cant play anymore - same for Wake...
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    Ah, right, the way Willie Mays retired on top?  Or Babe Ruth?  Reggie Jackson, Rickey Henderson, Gaylord Perry, Jim Perry, Edward Charles Frank Thomas Gorman Thomas John Denny Doyle Alexander Holland....almost all players?

    You don't know Varitek, you don't know his finances, his motivations, etc., you just hate him for some reason so are making an assumption...why should I "trust you", what evidence do you have?  Most players play until they aren't allowed to anymore....and who can blame them?  It's a game most of them love to play, it's their job, and the confidence/arrogance that they can always do it is what got them there in the first place.


     
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    Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox

    In Response to Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]it really is too bad that these guys cant exit gracefully....instead of appreciating them for what they gave us, we have to criticize them for what they no longer can do....I guess that today's salaries make pride a thing of the past...it really is all about the money...these guys have rings, respect, and appreciation for a lifetime...why do they want to muck it up by playing waaaayyyyy past their prime? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    Now I get it, you have to criticize them.  And here I was thinking you were just being a jerk.  Sorry for the misunderstanding.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox

    In Response to Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]it really is too bad that these guys cant exit gracefully....instead of appreciating them for what they gave us, we have to criticize them for what they no longer can do....I guess that today's salaries make pride a thing of the past...it really is all about the money...these guys have rings, respect, and appreciation for a lifetime...why do they want to muck it up by playing waaaayyyyy past their prime? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]


    more like ALAMONEY$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox

    Mooncud still wants to sign Wastefield and Varitek for up to 3 or 4 million dollars. Something about CERA and innings eater and losing. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from OnDeckCircle. Show OnDeckCircle's posts

    Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox

    The heart of Lucchino will soften and he'll sign both Varitek and Wakefield dirt cheap.
    Lucchino doesn't want just Ortiz and Youkilis to be the last remaining members of the 2004 World Series team.


    http://sonsofsamhorn.net/wiki/index.php/Category:Red_Sox_2004_World_Series_Roster
     
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    Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox

    Our new young guys last year did not doo all that great.


    Reddick (24)  .784 OPS

    Moon - Good points overall, but did I miss the memo that outlined this as a poor performance for a 24yo +defender during his first significant MLB playing time?  Also, red highlight ... freudian slip about shitty performances???
     
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    Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox

    In Response to An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]If Jason Varitek is NOT signed by another ML team, of course there has already been rumors that Dan Duquette, the new Orioles GM who traded for Varitek and Derek Lowe when Dan was the Red Sox GM, may sign Jason. He very well could be a good mentor to Wieters and other players on the Orioles.  No, I don't think the Captain is responsible for the September collapse nor could he done much to prevent it and none of know what he did or did not do, cause no one is going to publicly say what the Captain may have said or done, and a little like Terry Francona, the Captain does not throw his teammates under the bus.  BUT if NOT signed, Red Sox could ask Jason to come to ST maybe as a roving ml catching instructor. Presume Jason gets along with Gary Tuck, the Red Sox bullpen coach and catching instructor, Jason would certainly be of value with young catchers and maybe even pitchers, may have aspirations to eventually become a ML coach or Mgr., might even have interest some day in managing in the Red Sox system in Salem,VA or Greenville, SC. Jason is engaged to re-marry a lady from Massachusetts. Red Sox will have a place at some point in Pawtucket, Lowell or Portland to get experience as a Mgr., but it is often said, ML players make too much $ these days so that fewer want to coach or manage when they retire.  that is a decision the Captain and his fiancee have to make.  Maybe as a roving catching instructor, if he stays in shape, maybe it would give Ben Cherington and Bobby Valentine peace of mind, that they would have an experienced catcher working for the team in the event the Sox need to activate Jason cause of catcher injuries like the team had in 2010? Maybe Dan Duquette will change all of this. Probably, no one among Ben Cherington, Dan Duquette or the Captain are looking for our advice. 
    Posted by rgmfick[/QUOTE]

    I'm not trying to make waves with Tek fans but have always believed Jasons skill set was worth more to the Sox than it would be elsewhere.  This is why there was little to no interest in Tek as a FA the last time around when Boras tried to convince him otherwise.  Teams don't need a great "game calling" catcher to have success which has been proven time after time.

    Having a catcher who knows the pitchers and can call a good game due to longevity on a club is important but there is much more to the position.  Jason "on another club" with a different staff doesn't have the same impact.  With that said, I still appreciate all his years and what he has meant to the Sox.  I do hope a coaching role can be created for Jason within our organization at some point, maybe mentoring young catchers.
     
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    Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox

    In Response to Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox : Ah, right, the way Willie Mays retired on top?  Or Babe Ruth?  Reggie Jackson, Rickey Henderson, Gaylord Perry, Jim Perry, Edward Charles Frank Thomas Gorman Thomas John Denny Doyle Alexander Holland....almost all players? You don't know Varitek, you don't know his finances, his motivations, etc., you just hate him for some reason so are making an assumption...why should I "trust you", what evidence do you have?  Most players play until they aren't allowed to anymore....and who can blame them?  It's a game most of them love to play, it's their job, and the confidence/arrogance that they can always do it is what got them there in the first place.
    Posted by SonicsMonksLyresVicars[/QUOTE]

    youthink Tek bleeds Sox red? LOLOLOLOL....he will go anywhere he can to get paid....and every athlete is in decline when they retire due to old playing age...most do so gracefully...sadly the ones that dont tend to be ego driven former greats who cant accept being has-beens...damnnn straight they are going to get criticized for their greed/ego...whats the alternative???? tell them they are great and to keep on playing....Sonic you make no sense....stop the bootlicking
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox

    It's a moot point to debate this. The Red Sox are not going to sign Tek or Wake. Should they do a press conference to inform the fans? Why not start a thread about that? What do other teams do in this situation? Should they consult the Dear Abbie MLB ettiquette book on what the proper thing to do is? Should John Henry send off an email to a fan in Cambodia who can't sleep at night over this conundrum? The Nation is sitting on there hands and / or pacing the floor over this.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox

    In Response to Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]It's a moot point to debate this. The Red Sox are not going to sign Tek or Wake. Should they do a press conference to inform the fans? Why not start a thread about that? What do other teams do in this situation? Should they consult the Dear Abbie MLB ettiquette book on what the proper thing to do is? Should John Henry send off an email to a fan in Cambodia who can't sleep at night over this conundrum? The Nation is sitting on there hands and / or pacing the floor over this.
    Posted by UticaClub[/QUOTE]


    Utica--you do not know this.  Writers said the same thing after the 2008 season when it looked like Varitek played his last game for the Red Sox.  So they said---and what happened?  The Red Sox signed him again.  What happened after 2010?  Once again, the Sox just couldn't let  go and once again he was rammed down our throats.  He will be gone when the Red Sox finally say he is no longer with us and I think it is going to be very hard for Lucchino to do this.  They have treted both Varitek and Wakefield like sacred cows, and right now they both stink.   The Sox have to come out and announce that these two bums are finished in Boston.  Until that happens we have to worry that one or both could be back again, and neither should.  Their time is up and they must go.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox

    Until that happens we have to worry that one or both could be back again, and neither should.

    Amazing that people actually "worry: about these things.

    You worry that we might sign a back-up catcher for maybe $1M that hit better than 14 starting catchers last year. The catcher that saw the team go 42-22 in his games (22-12 in non Beckett games)

    You worry that we might sign a 6th starter that led the team to a 12-11 record and had more IP/GS than all but Beckett & Lester?

    You worry so much that you lay awake at night waiting for the day the Sox call a press conference to announce they will never sign these two and you can go back to sleep now.

    When they signed Papi, it meant Lava was not going to be the DH. We no longer needed a catcher that hit LHPs well (VTek). The Shoppach signing burried any last percentage of chance that VTek would be brought back as anything more than a coach.

    The Wake situation is a little more in doubt. It is obvious that Ben is searching for cheap options for the 5, 6 and/or 7 slots in our rotation. I think he'd rather avoid the distractions and turn a new leaf for the 2012 Sox, but signing Wake for $1M to fill the 6/7slot in the rotation should not cause anyone to bust a gut. He'd have to earn the slot over guys like Silva, Miller, Doubront or whoever else we may sign. That being said, I'd say the odds at about 25:1 that Wake signs elsewhere or retires. I hope that calms your frazzled nerves.




     
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    Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox

    Teams don't need a great "game calling" catcher to have success which has been proven time after time....

    But some teams disagree...

    Then why have the Angels clung to Jeff Mathis and dumped guys like Napoli?

    Guess what? Out of the 298 MLB players with over 1000 PAs over the last 4 years, Jeff Mathis has the worst OPS of all (.546). It's not even close. The next guy is Willt Tavarez at .581.

    Mathis has more innings as a catcher in 3 of the last 4 years with the Angels. The one year Napoli had more was because Mathis got hurt, and he still had just 100 less innings than Napoli (758 to 657).

    Forget about almost every Sox pitcher doing much better with VTek than the others, let's look at what you all hate him for... his bat. Once he became a back-up, and wasn't used vs mostly LHPs as he should have been, he still put up these numbers:

    51 catchers in MLB had 370+ PAs from 2010-2011 (including VMart and Napoli who were more or nearly more DH/1B than catchers the past 2 years), VTek placed ...
    21st in OPS out of 51. He was the back-up dudes! Our back-up catcher had the 21st best catcher OPS in MLB and you call that a weakness so bad, you can't sleep at night until you know he won't be back. 

    If you take away Napoli and VMart he'd be 19th out of 49.
    His .737 OPS is just .002 from being 18th out of the top 51. (.006 from 17th/51)

     
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    Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox

    In Response to Re: An idea for Captain Varitek and the Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]Teams don't need a great "game calling" catcher to have success which has been proven time after time... . But some teams disagree... Then why have the Angels clung to Jeff Mathis and dumped guys like Napoli? Guess what? Out of the 298 MLB players with over 1000 PAs over the last 4 years, Jeff Mathis has the worst OPS of all (.546) . It's not even close. The next guy is Willt Tavarez at .581. Mathis has more innings as a catcher in 3 of the last 4 years with the Angels. The one year Napoli had more was because Mathis got hurt, and he still had just 100 less innings than Napoli (758 to 657). Forget about almost every Sox pitcher doing much better with VTek than the others, let's look at what you all hate him for... his bat. Once he became a back-up, and wasn't used vs mostly LHPs as he should have been, he still put up these numbers: 51 catchers in MLB had 370+ PAs from 2010-2011 (including VMart and Napoli who were more or nearly more DH/1B than catchers the past 2 years), VTek placed ... 21st in OPS out of 51. He was the back-up dudes! Our back-up catcher had the 21st best catcher OPS in MLB and you call that a weakness so bad, you can't sleep at night until you know he won't be back.  If you take away Napoli and VMart he'd be 19th out of 49. His .737 OPS is just .002 from being 18th out of the top 51. (.006 from 17th/51)
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Hell, yeah!  Well said, Moon.
     

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