An Inconsistent Starter

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from youkillus. Show youkillus's posts

    An Inconsistent Starter

    His record on May 29th was 1-7. He was on his third team in three years. His reputation in Boston was "Inconsistent starter" He was failing, and failing badly. His high school catcher saw him on TV, and noticed a problem with his gathering point and told him about it. From that point on, he threw 10 shut outs, only six pitchers have done that in the last 53 years.  He joined company with Sandy Koufax, Dean Chance, Juan Marichal, Bob Gibson, and Jim Palmer were the first five. He went 20-1 in his next 21 decisions, the only loss when his team was shut out by the opposing pitcher. 


    In a September stretch drive he threw 3 shutouts, and on Oct 1 he pitched 10 scoreless innings in a must win game.


     His name is John Tudor, an "inconsistent starter" for the Red Sox, who got traded for a hitter, and became a star when he figured it all out. Felix Doubront, anyone?

     
  2. This post has been removed.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: An Inconsistent Starter

    In response to youkillus' comment:
    [QUOTE]


    His record on May 29th was 1-7. He was on his third team in three years. His reputation in Boston was "Inconsistent starter" He was failing, and failing badly. His high school catcher saw him on TV, and noticed a problem with his gathering point and told him about it. From that point on, he threw 10 shut outs, only six pitchers have done that in the last 53 years.  He joined company with Sandy Koufax, Dean Chance, Juan Marichal, Bob Gibson, and Jim Palmer were the first five. He went 20-1 in his next 21 decisions, the only loss when his team was shut out by the opposing pitcher. 


     


    In a September stretch drive he threw 3 shutouts, and on Oct 1 he pitched 10 scoreless innings in a must win game.


     


     His name is John Tudor, an "inconsistent starter" for the Red Sox, who got traded for a hitter, and became a star when he figured it all out. Felix Doubront, anyone?


    [/QUOTE]

    Duby,


    Sorry!  I don't see the kid ever putting it all together as a starter.  His stuff....  all his stuff is too sloooooowww!  A huy like him needs to have great control!  Great control.  His control is MAJORLY inconsistent!  It's never been good!  You don't go from never having great control to suddenly finding consistent control.  


    I just don't see it happening.


    I HOPE TO HELL I'M WRONG!!!!!

     
  4. This post has been removed.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: An Inconsistent Starter

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:


     


    In response to youkillus' comment:
    [QUOTE]


     


     


     


    His record on May 29th was 1-7. He was on his third team in three years. His reputation in Boston was "Inconsistent starter" He was failing, and failing badly. His high school catcher saw him on TV, and noticed a problem with his gathering point and told him about it. From that point on, he threw 10 shut outs, only six pitchers have done that in the last 53 years.  He joined company with Sandy Koufax, Dean Chance, Juan Marichal, Bob Gibson, and Jim Palmer were the first five. He went 20-1 in his next 21 decisions, the only loss when his team was shut out by the opposing pitcher. 


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


    In a September stretch drive he threw 3 shutouts, and on Oct 1 he pitched 10 scoreless innings in a must win game.


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     His name is John Tudor, an "inconsistent starter" for the Red Sox, who got traded for a hitter, and became a star when he figured it all out. Felix Doubront, anyone?


     


     


     




    Duby,


     


     


     


    Sorry!  I don't see the kid ever putting it all together as a starter.  His stuff....  all his stuff is too sloooooowww!  A huy like him needs to have great control!  Great control.  His control is MAJORLY inconsistent!  It's never been good!  You don't go from never having great control to suddenly finding consistent control.  


     


     


     


    I just don't see it happening.


     


     


     


    I HOPE TO HELL I'M WRONG!!!!!


     


    [/QUOTE]

    Wrong, there is a long list of MLB pitchers that struggled with Command early in their careers and then found their control and became really good pitchers.


     


    Although I do doubt that is Douby, His stuff is only mediocre, he's no more than a back end starter.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: An Inconsistent Starter

    He was a very good back end starter last year at 11-6 with a 4.32 ERA.  Sox were 18-9 in his starts last year.  Then he threw 7 innings of 1-run relief in the postseason.  But he can be pretty frustrating, no question. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: An Inconsistent Starter

    CT,


     


     


     


    I don't disagree.  I guess my point was that I haven't ever seen anything from his overall "stuff" that has ever lead me to believe he's capable of becoming a consistent front end starter.  I did at one point think he might be capable of becoming a pretty decent #3 or 4, but I'm certainly re-thinking that.  


     


    I hate to say it, but his whol d persona says lazy to me.  When I watch his stuff, it says lazy.  I know I'm biased by the fact that he doesn't have that go to fastball to bear down & punch anybody out.  Perhaps more important, is the fact that he relies too heavily on his sweeping curveball, & lacks any decent splitter or changeup pitch.  If he wants to succeed in this league, with the stuff he has, he needs to develope a saleable changeup with the same fastball motion, with greater seperation in speeds.  My opinion....  he desperately needs the splitter without any punchout ability.


     


    I just don't see it happening with him.


     


    p.s.   of course I understand that there are plenty of guys who do put it together after a slow career start.  I just don't see it happening with a pitcher with his current repertoire. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: An Inconsistent Starter

    someone contact felix' High School catcher.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: An Inconsistent Starter

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    CT,


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


    I don't disagree.  I guess my point was that I haven't ever seen anything from his overall "stuff" that has ever lead me to believe he's capable of becoming a consistent front end starter.  I did at one point think he might be capable of becoming a pretty decent #3 or 4, but I'm certainly re-thinking that.  


     


     


     


    I hate to say it, but his whol d persona says lazy to me.  When I watch his stuff, it says lazy.  I know I'm biased by the fact that he doesn't have that go to fastball to bear down & punch anybody out.  Perhaps more important, is the fact that he relies too heavily on his sweeping curveball, & lacks any decent splitter or changeup pitch.  If he wants to succeed in this league, with the stuff he has, he needs to develope a saleable changeup with the same fastball motion, with greater seperation in speeds.  My opinion....  he desperately needs the splitter without any punchout ability.


     


     


     


    I just don't see it happening with him.


     


     


     


    p.s.   of course I understand that there are plenty of guys who do put it together after a slow career start.  I just don't see it happening with a pitcher with his current repertoire. 


    [/QUOTE]

    Ok fair enough, I agree.  I was just trying to point out that there are pitchers out there who have had a "turn it on moment" and become really good control pitchers.  Some struggled early in the their minor league careers and then turned it on when they reached the majors (Pedro Martinez) and others took years at the MLB level to develop it (Koufax).  


    But you are right, Doubront doesn't have the talent to be that good even if he does find better command.  I think he has the stuff to be a really good middle of the rotation starter (if he improved his command/control) but even with his stuff he wouldn't be much more than that.


    He's been a streaky guy though, hopefully he gets a little hot and maybe we can package him in a deal at the deadline. Room is going to have to be made in the rotation at some point and the Sox will keep Lester around before they keep Doubront. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: An Inconsistent Starter

    In response to BogieAt12oclock's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    The only concern I have about Doubie is how long before the SOX realize he's not going to get any better. I think it's been more than long enough.


    [/QUOTE]

    His time is running short, no doubt. I would give him four more starts. We do not need a SP on our roster whose ERA is 6 and who has never had success (except in SSS) at the ML level-his overall ERA is 4.7 in the majors. His act is getting very old. I hope he can turn it around, but I am doubtful of it.


    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE


     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: An Inconsistent Starter

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    In response to BogieAt12oclock's comment:
    [QUOTE]


     


    The only concern I have about Doubie is how long before the SOX realize he's not going to get any better. I think it's been more than long enough.


     


    [/QUOTE]

    His time is running short, no doubt. I would give him four more starts. We do not need a SP on our roster whose ERA is 6 and who has never had success (except in SSS) at the ML level-his overall ERA is 4.7 in the majors. His act is getting very old. I hope he can turn it around, but I am doubtful of it.


    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE


    [/QUOTE]

    He was successful last year, in the sense of being an average major league starter.


     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: An Inconsistent Starter

     


    Duby,


     


    Sorry!  I don't see the kid ever putting it all together as a starter.  His stuff....  all his stuff is too sloooooowww!  A huy like him needs to have great control!  Great control.  His control is MAJORLY inconsistent!  It's never been good!  You don't go from never having great control to suddenly finding consistent control.  


     


    I just don't see it happening.


     


    I HOPE TO HELL I'M WRONG!!!!!


    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]


     


    Command is one of the few things that you can actually develop.  Not saying Felix is going to find that.  He is still pretty young, but, thus far, he seems to lack the work ethic required to make this control breakthrough.  But it can be done.  You cant get faster.  If your curve doesnt fall off a table, it never will.  But, control, that you can control.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from youkillus. Show youkillus's posts

    Re: An Inconsistent Starter

    Felix has a winning record in a tough division, he's left handed, young and super cheap. He may be around for a while folks.


     

     
  14. This post has been removed.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: An Inconsistent Starter

    John Tudor had an ERA of 3.96 and an ERA+ of 108 in 636.2 innings with the Red Sox while Felix Doubront has a ERA of 4.70 and an ERA+ of 90 in 382.2 innings with the Red Sox.

     

Share