....and NOW the Yankees are SECOND at a game they invented as Sox slip to 4th!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ImagydSportsBos. Show ImagydSportsBos's posts

    ....and NOW the Yankees are SECOND at a game they invented as Sox slip to 4th!

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/10673297/los-angeles-dodgers-top-spender-end-new-york-yankees-15-year-run

    the times they b achanging y'all.. checking in with a $235m payroll and expected to rise as high as $266m are the LA dodgers. poor yanks could barely afford to break too far from the $200m barrier as they counted pennies to $204m.. for the first time since 1998 (coincidence they bought them rings?) they aint first in payroll.

    mr. henry, as he's burdened by british soccer and race teams and of course the money sieve known as the Globe.. (did i say that out loud?).. has had to drastically cut back (sorry stephen Drew) and avoid the luxury tax wall by freezing at $163m.. the phillies with some really bad contracts (thats you mr. rollins and senor paps) are actually in 3rd and likely barely breaking the luxury tax threshold later on.

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from billge. Show billge's posts

    Re: ....and NOW the Yankees are SECOND at a game they invented as Sox slip to 4th!

    Troll on troll

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: ....and NOW the Yankees are SECOND at a game they invented as Sox slip to 4th!

    I didn't know that the Phillies' payroll was at $180 million.  The Phillies are a mess right now.  I think the Phillies will be 10 games out by July and look for them to trade Cliff Lee (if their GM is smart enough).   lol 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: ....and NOW the Yankees are SECOND at a game they invented as Sox slip to 4th!

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/2013-payroll-salaries.shtml

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2013-payroll-salaries.shtml

     

    Boston has the most money to spend (when you consider how much money they have off the books vs. the level they've showed they are willing to spend) and they have a top farm system.

    I like BOSTONS game better.

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: ....and NOW the Yankees are SECOND at a game they invented as Sox slip to 4th!

    Cut back? Freeze?

    They didnt get Drew because Xanders time is here. Had nothing to do with cut backs or a freeze. more opinions written as fact.

    What r u smoking my friend?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: ....and NOW the Yankees are SECOND at a game they invented as Sox slip to 4th!

    Time will tell. Teams like RS / Cards do it the right way. Have $ to spend but also have top farm systems which help subsidize there payroll costs.

    If your the Yanks and have no farm system and thousands of empty high priced seats behind the dugouts, declining TV ratings, what else is there to do. Go spend $517 +/- mil to rebuild? Good Luck with that. RS faced similar problem a few yrs ago and RS learned lesson from their mistakes. Be interesting to see if Yanks don't make playoffs this yr which way they go. Do they spend more? or bust it up similar to what RS did. My guess they'll just spend some more and continue to lose their draft picks in the process and this no farm have to spend cycle will continue. Its like what came first chicken or the egg? Did Yanks spend and no farm because, or no farm and were forced to spend? Cashmans job is not enviable.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: ....and NOW the Yankees are SECOND at a game they invented as Sox slip to 4th!

    Somebody should keep track of what happens with the draft picks the Yanks are giving up. I didn't realize it until somebody here pointed it out, but the pick the Angels received for the Yankees signing Teixeira was used to take Mike Trout. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from javaukti1. Show javaukti1's posts

    Re: ....and NOW the Yankees are SECOND at a game they invented as Sox slip to 4th!

    In response to garyhow's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Time will tell. Teams like RS / Cards do it the right way. Have $ to spend but also have top farm systems which help subsidize there payroll costs.

    If your the Yanks and have no farm system and thousands of empty high priced seats behind the dugouts, declining TV ratings, what else is there to do.

    [/QUOTE]

    It's not that those $1500 seats aren't sold. They're either owned as status symbols and Owners show up only a few games a year, or by corporations for clients in town who don't want to go to the theater. Or the owner IS there but sitting at the private bar or shopping. Yankee stadium is built like a shopping mall.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: ....and NOW the Yankees are SECOND at a game they invented as Sox slip to 4th!

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Somebody should keep track of what happens with the draft picks the Yanks are giving up. I didn't realize it until somebody here pointed it out, but the pick the Angels received for the Yankees signing Teixeira was used to take Mike Trout. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Realistically we don't know if the Yankees would have taken the same player. Actually very good chance they may not have, as they have not done a very good job of scouting for the rule 4 draft.  Still, I think it would be fun to see who took what with the picks they gave up to give some insight into what you potentially give up when you sign players.  If someone doesn't beat me to it I might take a look at it later. 

    Looking at that from the other side of the coin, you can see who the Sox drafted with the compensation picks they have received.  If you look at the Soxprospects.com draft history site http://www.soxprospects.com/dh.htm they show you who the sox drafted, and what player lost to free agency that pick was associated with. 

    For example losting Victor Martinez turned into Matt Barnes and Henry Owens; both of whom are top 100 prospects and top 10 in the Sox system.  And losing Adrian Beltre turned into Jackie Bradley Jr, and Blake Swihart; two more top prospects.  Looking back a little further losing Orlando Crabrera turned into Jacoby Ellsbury and Pedro Martinez turned into Clay Buccholz. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: ....and NOW the Yankees are SECOND at a game they invented as Sox slip to 4th!

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Somebody should keep track of what happens with the draft picks the Yanks are giving up. I didn't realize it until somebody here pointed it out, but the pick the Angels received for the Yankees signing Teixeira was used to take Mike Trout. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Realistically we don't know if the Yankees would have taken the same player. Actually very good chance they may not have, as they have not done a very good job of scouting for the rule 4 draft.  Still, I think it would be fun to see who took what with the picks they gave up to give some insight into what you potentially give up when you sign players.  If someone doesn't beat me to it I might take a look at it later. 

    Looking at that from the other side of the coin, you can see who the Sox drafted with the compensation picks they have received.  If you look at the Soxprospects.com draft history site http://www.soxprospects.com/dh.htm they show you who the sox drafted, and what player lost to free agency that pick was associated with. 

    For example losting Victor Martinez turned into Matt Barnes and Henry Owens; both of whom are top 100 prospects and top 10 in the Sox system.  And losing Adrian Beltre turned into Jackie Bradley Jr, and Blake Swihart; two more top prospects.  Looking back a little further losing Orlando Crabrera turned into Jacoby Ellsbury and Pedro Martinez turned into Clay Buccholz. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Pretty fascinating stuff, and it really shows the value of these draft picks. Anyone still wondering why the Sox have laid off top-tier free agents the last couple of years need look no further.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: ....and NOW the Yankees are SECOND at a game they invented as Sox slip to 4th!

    Under the old system, we got Anthony Ranaudo (and Kolbrin Vitek...kind of hard to believe now that he was the #20 overall pick) for just a few weeks of Billy Wagner at the end of 2009. Pretty crazy.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: ....and NOW the Yankees are SECOND at a game they invented as Sox slip to 4th!

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Under the old system, we got Anthony Ranaudo (and Kolbrin Vitek) for just a couple months of Billy Wagner.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, and I believe Jason bay gave us Brandon Workman and Bryce Brentz.

    One thing to consider too, we might have got 4 solid players who very well may turn out to be above average to allstary players from that 2011 draft through comp picks (Owens, Barnes, Swihart, JBJ)  but that was also a stacked draft, which was considered one of the strongest in years.  Looking at our draft history you can see there were years were it seemed we drafted very little talent and others were almost all the players at the top were MLBers.....THIS year is considered to be like the 2011 draft and just stacked with talent.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSPCB73. Show RSPCB73's posts

    Re: ....and NOW the Yankees are SECOND at a game they invented as Sox slip to 4th!

    I wonder who the team gets for Ellsbury!

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: ....and NOW the Yankees are SECOND at a game they invented as Sox slip to 4th!

    we might have got 4 solid players who very well may turn out to be above average to allstary players from that 2011 draft through comp picks (Owens, Barnes, Swihart, JBJ)  but that was also a stacked draft, which was considered one of the strongest in years.

    That was an epic draft for sure. When you add Betts to that list, we got five current top 100 guys from that crop alone. Plus others like Kukuk, Shaw, Ramirez, etc. who may turn out to be something in time. Amazingly, when you consider that we gave up the #24 pick (used by the Rays to take Taylor Guerrieri) to sign Crawford, it could have been even better.

     

    THIS year is considered to be like the 2011 draft and just stacked with talent.

    ...which is why I love the strategy Ben took this winter, and think it will pay much bigger dividends in the long term than we'd have gotten by a panic signing of someone like Choo or Beltran.

    Now can Drew please sign somewhere before the draft?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: ....and NOW the Yankees are SECOND at a game they invented as Sox slip to 4th!

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    we might have got 4 solid players who very well may turn out to be above average to allstary players from that 2011 draft through comp picks (Owens, Barnes, Swihart, JBJ)  but that was also a stacked draft, which was considered one of the strongest in years.

    That was an epic draft for sure. When you add Betts to that list, we got five current top 100 guys from that crop alone. Plus others like Kukuk, Shaw, Ramirez, etc. who may turn out to be something in time. Amazingly, when you consider that we gave up the #24 pick (used by the Rays to take Taylor Guerrieri) to sign Crawford, it could have been even better.

     

    THIS year is considered to be like the 2011 draft and just stacked with talent.

    ...which is why I love the strategy Ben took this winter, and think it will pay much bigger dividends in the long term than we'd have gotten by a panic signing of someone like Choo or Beltran.

    Now can Drew please sign somewhere before the draft?

    [/QUOTE]

    Yup, Ben plans ahead, I like his line of thinking.  the 2011 draft just keeps getting better too.  It was good before with those top 4 guys (Barnes, Swihart, Owens, Jackie Bradley) but Betts emergence last year was nice, and Kukuk has looked really strong in spring training.  He was considered a very raw, projectable arm that was a long lead player....what that effectively means is he wasn't that great but the Sox saw the physical projection and the raw tools to mold him into a great pitcher, and while his stuff was off the charts last year he had NO control he walked 81 guys in 101 innings.  Soxprospects wrote a good article on his spring here. http://news.soxprospects.com/2014/03/kukuk-turning-weakness-into-strength.html

    I'm hoping Drew signs somewhere soon too so we can get 3 picks in the top 33.  I thought for sure he was holding out and would sign before the draft but I'm starting to lose faith....but there is still time. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: ....and NOW the Yankees are SECOND at a game they invented as Sox slip to 4th!

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    we might have got 4 solid players who very well may turn out to be above average to allstary players from that 2011 draft through comp picks (Owens, Barnes, Swihart, JBJ)  but that was also a stacked draft, which was considered one of the strongest in years.

    That was an epic draft for sure. When you add Betts to that list, we got five current top 100 guys from that crop alone. Plus others like Kukuk, Shaw, Ramirez, etc. who may turn out to be something in time. Amazingly, when you consider that we gave up the #24 pick (used by the Rays to take Taylor Guerrieri) to sign Crawford, it could have been even better.

     

    THIS year is considered to be like the 2011 draft and just stacked with talent.

    ...which is why I love the strategy Ben took this winter, and think it will pay much bigger dividends in the long term than we'd have gotten by a panic signing of someone like Choo or Beltran.

    Now can Drew please sign somewhere before the draft?

    [/QUOTE]

    Yup, Ben plans ahead, I like his line of thinking.  the 2011 draft just keeps getting better too.  It was good before with those top 4 guys (Barnes, Swihart, Owens, Jackie Bradley) but Betts emergence last year was nice, and Kukuk has looked really strong in spring training.  He was considered a very raw, projectable arm that was a long lead player....what that effectively means is he wasn't that great but the Sox saw the physical projection and the raw tools to mold him into a great pitcher, and while his stuff was off the charts last year he had NO control he walked 81 guys in 101 innings.  Soxprospects wrote a good article on his spring here. http://news.soxprospects.com/2014/03/kukuk-turning-weakness-into-strength.html

    I'm hoping Drew signs somewhere soon too so we can get 3 picks in the top 33.  I thought for sure he was holding out and would sign before the draft but I'm starting to lose faith....but there is still time. 

    [/QUOTE] boy, i'm going to see if i can get the Sox FO an appearance on this season of the A&E series 'Hoarders' SmileWink


     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: ....and NOW the Yankees are SECOND at a game they invented as Sox slip to 4th!

    In response to ImagydSportsBos' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/10673297/los-angeles-dodgers-top-spender-end-new-york-yankees-15-year-run

    the times they b achanging y'all.. checking in with a $235m payroll and expected to rise as high as $266m are the LA dodgers. poor yanks could barely afford to break too far from the $200m barrier as they counted pennies to $204m.. for the first time since 1998 (coincidence they bought them rings?) they aint first in payroll.

    mr. henry, as he's burdened by british soccer and race teams and of course the money sieve known as the Globe.. (did i say that out loud?).. has had to drastically cut back (sorry stephen Drew) and avoid the luxury tax wall by freezing at $163m.. the phillies with some really bad contracts (thats you mr. rollins and senor paps) are actually in 3rd and likely barely breaking the luxury tax threshold later on.

    [/QUOTE]

    The Dodgers have a great shot at the WS this season.  I don't see any team beating them if they can keep everyone on the field most of the season.  It won't take long before the Yankee payroll reaches number one again either. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: ....and NOW the Yankees are SECOND at a game they invented as Sox slip to 4th!

    The Yankees have to start paying Mr. A. Rodriguez again next year for 3 more years - and for every dollar they pay him they'll incur 50% luxury tax. Laughing

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: ....and NOW the Yankees are SECOND at a game they invented as Sox slip to 4th!

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Somebody should keep track of what happens with the draft picks the Yanks are giving up. I didn't realize it until somebody here pointed it out, but the pick the Angels received for the Yankees signing Teixeira was used to take Mike Trout. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Hello Hfxsoxnut   Laughing

    I mentioned the Trout draft pick before.

    Guess who the Cardinals received as compensation for Pujols leaving for the Angels?  Answer below.   Cool

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    19th pick..............Wacha

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: ....and NOW the Yankees are SECOND at a game they invented as Sox slip to 4th!

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Somebody should keep track of what happens with the draft picks the Yanks are giving up. I didn't realize it until somebody here pointed it out, but the pick the Angels received for the Yankees signing Teixeira was used to take Mike Trout. 

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Did someone request an arduous and meaningless task be done?

     

    The list of lost picks lost by the Yankees and Red Sox through the years of signing free agents is not nearly as devastating as you might think.  

     

    Since 2000, here are the players taken with the forfeited picks.  I am not including supplemental round picks, as the team did not lose them.   And while it is probably worth noting that the Angels did get Tyler Skaggs as part of the compensation for losing Teixeira.  But it’s not like the Yankees gave up a chance there.

     

    2001 Mike Fontenot (Yankees), Dan Denham (Red Sox)

    2002 Joe Blanton (Yankees), Nick Swisher  (Red Sox)

    2004 Blake DeWitt (Yankees), Landon Powell (Red Sox)

    2005 Jacob Marceaux (Yankees), Colby Rasmus (Red Sox)

    2006 Daniel Bard (Yankees)

    2007 Chris Withrow (Red Sox)

    2009 Mike Trout (Yankees)

    2010 Cam Bedrosian (Red Sox)

    2011 Mikie Mahtook (Yankees), Tyler Guerreri (Red Sox)

     

     

    I’m pretty sure the Yankees and Red Sox have no regrets about giving a chance at Mike Fontenot and Dan Denham in order to sign Mike Mussina and Manny Ramirez. 

     

    For the most part, a lot of “meh.”  What this list actually shows me is that the Red Sox sign their free agents away from better drafting teams.  Really, if either team’s compensation picks went to better players, it looks like it might be the set lost by the Red Sox over the one lost by the Yankees.  The only total busts on that list are Denham and Bedrosian (Yes, Steve’s son.) The obvious biggest loss is Trout, but really, after that, whose the second biggest on the Yankee list?  Blanton?   (One could argue losing out on Trout was clearly worse than the entire Sox list.  Noted.)

     

    Lists like this make me wonder why some teams value their draft picks so highly.  A fair amount of these picks were made by the Rays (Mahtook, Guerreri) and A’s (Blanton, Swisher, Powell).   These are two of the better drafting franchises in MLB and actually did a good job drafting their 5 picks (3 MLB players and one top prospect), but history has shown to date it still isn’t all that much.  When you consider that 30% of all first round picks never play as much as one inning of MLB baseball anyway, the draft does appear to be one place teams could save signing bonus money by not having so many high picks.

     

    And while we will never know if the Yankees or Sox would have taken any of these players, what we do know is that if either team did draft these players instead of signing a free agent, it would not have worked out as well in all cases, except Mike Trout and Colby Rasmus (comp for signing Edgar Renteria) and potentially Chris Withrow, although that could be taken as just as much of a statement about Lugo as it is about Withrow and his undetermined future.  This also goes for Guerreri over Carl Crawford.

     

    I’ll take Johnny Damon over Nick Swisher and not think twice, and I’m sure most Yankee fans were much happier with Jason Giambi than they would have been with Joe Blanton…

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: ....and NOW the Yankees are SECOND at a game they invented as Sox slip to 4th!

    Thanks, notin, very interesting.  

     

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