Andrew Friedman is the GM Billy Beane wishes he was

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Andrew Friedman is the GM Billy Beane wishes he was

    Friedman's biggest challenges are ahead of him though.  He has done a great job, no question.  But can the Rays continue to contend as their draft position stays lower and their payroll resources are limited?

    Beane had a great run in his early years but now has to settle for teams that have a shot at a .500 record.
     
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    Re: Andrew Friedman is the GM Billy Beane wishes he was

    I think Beane gets credited with Moneyball, but I'm not sure he's kept up.  It's like Sony coming up with the Walkman, but letting the rest of the world develop the next cycle of products.

    I think he's also too involved with trying to be too cute.  He signed Sheets for no apparent reason other than hoping to trade him for prospects at the trading deadline.  Similar to trading for Holliday.  I think he thought all he had to do was to hold onto him for a couple of months and his value would go up.  He gave up Carlos Gonzales and Huston street for him, and recouped very little.

    It looks to me like he developed a means without an end in mind, and now he is just in a constant state of rebuiliding, since that is all he knows how to do.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Andrew Friedman is the GM Billy Beane wishes he was

    Friedman's biggest challenges are ahead of him though.  He has done a great job, no question.  But can the Rays continue to contend as their draft position stays lower and their payroll resources are limited?

    While Friedman has benefited from the past GM's 1st round picks, but he has perfected the art of stockpiling compensatory picks and has done very well with lower slot picks. Remember, Andrew drafted Moore with the 245th pick, Alex Cobb (109th pick), Desmond Jennings (289th), and as the Director of Baseball Development the Rays drafted Jeremy Hellickson with the 118th pick, Brignac (45th), W Davis (75th), and jake McGee (135th).

    The Rays broke a record for most picks in the top 60 last year with 10! All were signed as well. (They also had 12 of the top 89!) All were HS players, so the effects of this draft may not be realized until 4-6 years from now and beyond.

    Friedman had 5 of the top 79 picks in 2010 and signed his first 6 picks (again, all HS players). This was something the old management team and Andrew himself had difficulty doing before the last 2 seasons.


     
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    Re: Andrew Friedman is the GM Billy Beane wishes he was

    In Response to Re: Andrew Friedman is the GM Billy Beane wishes he was:
    Friedman's biggest challenges are ahead of him though.  He has done a great job, no question.  But can the Rays continue to contend as their draft position stays lower and their payroll resources are limited? While Friedman has benefited from the past GM's 1st round picks, but he has perfected the art of stockpiling compensatory picks and has done very well with lower slot picks. Remember, Andrew drafted Moore with the 245th pick, Alex Cobb (109th pick), Desmond Jennings (289th), and as the Director of Baseball Development the Rays drafted Jeremy Hellickson with the 118th pick, Brignac (45th), W Davis (75th), and jake McGee (135th). The Rays broke a record for most picks in the top 60 last year with 10! All were signed as well. (They also had 12 of the top 89!) All were HS players, so the effects of this draft may not be realized until 4-6 years from now and beyond. Friedman had 5 of the top 79 picks in 2010 and signed his first 6 picks (again, all HS players). This was something the old management team and Andrew himself had difficulty doing before the last 2 seasons.
    Posted by moonslav59


    Freidman has done well and is among the better of the new breed of Ivy league GM's, like Beane has yet to win it all. That said, his success and that of the Ray's since 2008 is due to two very important factors.

    1) They drafted in the top 5 for 10 consequetive seasons meaning that not only did they get their pick of the top guys, they also reaped the benefit of drafting at the top of each round (depth).

    2) The owners has used the moneys they recieve each year from MLB to sign thier draft picks and to bolster thier 40 man roster.

    How good would they be or had been, if Hamilton and Baldelli both had stayed healthy...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Andrew Friedman is the GM Billy Beane wishes he was

    One thing to keep in mind is that many of those starting pitchers weren't his picks. He inherited them from LaMarr.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Andrew Friedman is the GM Billy Beane wishes he was

    Freidman has done well and is among the better of the new breed of Ivy league GM's, like Beane has yet to win it all. That said, his success and that of the Ray's since 2008 is due to two very important factors.

    1) They drafted in the top 5 for 10 consequetive seasons meaning that not only did they get their pick of the top guys, they also reaped the benefit of drafting at the top of each round (depth).

    No doubt their top 5 draft picks are essential to the Rays succcess, but there are several GMs in MLB who have has multiple top 5 picks over the past 10-12 years, and where are they?
    Here's a breakdown:

    1999: 
    1- Josh Hamilton (Lost in Rule 5 2006)
    (52-Crawford) 

    2000:
    6- Baldelli
    (466- Shields)

    2001:
    3- Dewon Brazelton

    2002:
    2- BJ Upton

    2003:
    1- Delmon Young (traded with others for Garza & Bartlett)
    (338- J Jaso)

    2004:
    4- Jeff Niemann
    (45- Brignac, 75- W Davis, 135 J McGee, 335 Sonnanstine)

    2005:
    8- Wade Townsend
    (118- Hellickson, 

    2006:
    3- Evan Longoria
    (109- A Cobb, 289- Jennings

    2007:
    1- D Price
    (245- M Moore)

    Only Price and Longoria are crucial to the Rays winning. Maybe compare what Friedman got from his predecessors to what Theo got from his.

    2) The owners has used the moneys they recieve each year from MLB to sign thier draft picks and to bolster thier 40 man roster.

    Are you really saying that Friedman & the Rays have a money advantage?

    How good would they be or had been, if Hamilton and Baldelli both had stayed healthy...

    True enough!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Andrew Friedman is the GM Billy Beane wishes he was

    Perhaps Andrew Friedman is the GM every general manager wishes he were.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Andrew Friedman is the GM Billy Beane wishes he was

    In Response to Re: Andrew Friedman is the GM Billy Beane wishes he was:
    Perhaps Andrew Friedman is the GM most general managers wish they were.
    Posted by hill55

    Or, the GM most owners would love to have.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Andrew Friedman is the GM Billy Beane wishes he was

    I wasn't nearly as shocked by Whitney Houston's death as I am by the fact that Keith Richards is still alive...
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Andrew Friedman is the GM Billy Beane wishes he was

    In Response to Re: Andrew Friedman is the GM Billy Beane wishes he was:
    I think Beane gets credited with Moneyball, but I'm not sure he's kept up.  It's like Sony coming up with the Walkman, but letting the rest of the world develop the next cycle of products. I think he's also too involved with trying to be too cute.  He signed Sheets for no apparent reason other than hoping to trade him for prospects at the trading deadline.  Similar to trading for Holliday.  I think he thought all he had to do was to hold onto him for a couple of months and his value would go up.  He gave up Carlos Gonzales and Huston street for him, and recouped very little. It looks to me like he developed a means without an end in mind, and now he is just in a constant state of rebuiliding, since that is all he knows how to do.
    Posted by Joebreidey


    Ecellent post; especially the Walkman analogy.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Andrew Friedman is the GM Billy Beane wishes he was

    In Response to Re: Andrew Friedman is the GM Billy Beane wishes he was:
    I wasn't nearly as shocked by Whitney Houston's death as I am by the fact that Keith Richards is still alive...
    Posted by notin


    Got me to chuckle
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Andrew Friedman is the GM Billy Beane wishes he was

    Sorry but without being specific you are disregarding the numerous years the A's were the leader of their division, or close. You have disregarded all of the great pitching talent that Beane cultivated. Time finally caught up with the A's..... and it will catch the Rays at some point to.  

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Andrew Friedman is the GM Billy Beane wishes he was

    In Response to Re: Andrew Friedman is the GM Billy Beane wishes he was:
    Sorry but without being specific you are disregarding the numerous years the A's were the leader of their division, or close. You have disregarded all of the great pitching talent that Beane cultivated. Time finally caught up with the A's..... and it will catch the Rays at some point to.  
    Posted by BurritoT

    You may be right, burr, but this team has their stars locked up under team control at very low cost (except for Shields next year's deal gets a bit rich for the rays). They stockpiled draft picks last year, and drafted all HS players, basically insuring they will be tough for many years to come.

    I could see them dealing Upton this July and Shields next winter and barely skip a beat. Remember, they will get something in return for these two guys. Jennings will play CF, and Moore or Cobb will take over for Shields.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Andrew Friedman is the GM Billy Beane wishes he was

    In Response to Re: Andrew Friedman is the GM Billy Beane wishes he was:
    Sorry but without being specific you are disregarding the numerous years the A's were the leader of their division, or close. You have disregarded all of the great pitching talent that Beane cultivated. Time finally caught up with the A's..... and it will catch the Rays at some point to.  
    Posted by BurritoT


    Yes. I've already discussed this. I'm taking them out in 2013.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Skadude22. Show Skadude22's posts

    Re: Andrew Friedman is the GM Billy Beane wishes he was

    In Response to Re: Andrew Friedman is the GM Billy Beane wishes he was:
    Friedman's biggest challenges are ahead of him though.  He has done a great job, no question.  But can the Rays continue to contend as their draft position stays lower and their payroll resources are limited? While Friedman has benefited from the past GM's 1st round picks, but he has perfected the art of stockpiling compensatory picks and has done very well with lower slot picks. Remember, Andrew drafted Moore with the 245th pick, Alex Cobb (109th pick), Desmond Jennings (289th), and as the Director of Baseball Development the Rays drafted Jeremy Hellickson with the 118th pick, Brignac (45th), W Davis (75th), and jake McGee (135th). The Rays broke a record for most picks in the top 60 last year with 10! All were signed as well. (They also had 12 of the top 89!) All were HS players, so the effects of this draft may not be realized until 4-6 years from now and beyond. Friedman had 5 of the top 79 picks in 2010 and signed his first 6 picks (again, all HS players). This was something the old management team and Andrew himself had difficulty doing before the last 2 seasons.
    Posted by moonslav59


    To be fair, perfecting the art of collecting compensatory picks is pretty much, just have good players on your team, and let them go when they are free agents.  With the exception of trading for/signing guys that were not Type A or B free agents, and letting them go once they have become type a free agents, there's not much that goes into it.  That said, I think the thing that seems to go somewhat under the radar is the fact that he is excellent at recognizing a talented player.  When he realizes a player is going to be good, he extends them long-term before it seems like a steal for the team, then he reaps the benefits.  David Price, Matt Moore, and Evan Longoria are prime examples. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Andrew Friedman is the GM Billy Beane wishes he was

    In Response to Re: Andrew Friedman is the GM Billy Beane wishes he was:
    In Response to Re: Andrew Friedman is the GM Billy Beane wishes he was : To be fair, perfecting the art of collecting compensatory picks is pretty much, just have good players on your team, and let them go when they are free agents.  With the exception of trading for/signing guys that were not Type A or B free agents, and letting them go once they have become type a free agents, there's not much that goes into it.  That said, I think the thing that seems to go somewhat under the radar is the fact that he is excellent at recognizing a talented player.  When he realizes a player is going to be good, he extends them long-term before it seems like a steal for the team, then he reaps the benefits.  David Price, Matt Moore, and Evan Longoria are prime examples. 
    Posted by Skadude22

    The Rays did trade for Brad Hawpe for the sole reason of gaining a pick when he walked. 

    Friedman also seems to have perfected the art of collecting journeymen relievers, signing them to 1 year deals, then getting a draft pick after they have a decent season. Here are the compensatory picks he got last year:
    24 Crawford
    31 Soriano
    38 Soriano
    41 Crawford
    42 Balfour
    52 Hawpe
    56 Benoit
    59 Choate
    60 Qualls
    75 Balfour

    7 of the 10 are for relievers. The pen klast year was almost as good as the 2010 pen, even though they lost all these pitchers!


     
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    Re: Andrew Friedman is the GM Billy Beane wishes he was

    Yoenis Cespedes

    posted at 2/13/2012 12:23 PM EST
    Posts: 29
    First: 11/21/2011
    Last: 2/13/2012
    Signed with Oakland for 4 years 36M...

    Too bad Oakland has such a crappy pay roll, would love to see them succeed. This move seems pretty surprising, they'll have a hell of a time competing over the next few years with what they have. Didn't see this one coming at all, he almost seemed destined for Miami.
     
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    Re: Andrew Friedman is the GM Billy Beane wishes he was

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    Re: Andrew Friedman is the GM Billy Beane wishes he was

    I formally reject your "knave" status after this astute post Dave. While accolades go elsewhere, Friedman has quietly shown how to TRULY assess talent and build winning teams with limited resources. I called for his hiring here on this forum once it was clear Theo would be leaving. Alas, they decided to go with a kid who wouldn't balk at their plans to go cheap this season. Theo proved to be an idiot, in spite of the obviously premature "boy wonder" moniker. Beane was great...7 yrs ago. He's since followed some of the rabid sabermetricians over the cliff, and started making quirky decisions resulting in harm to his team. Once you start down the road to number crunching cuckooville, you end up zigging when clearly you should be zagging. Anyhoo, great observations re: Friedman!




    In Response to Andrew Friedman is the GM Billy Beane wishes he was:
    He hasn't had a movie made about him, but Friedman does have a much more impressive resume than Mr Moneyball. The Rays are legitimate contenders every year with a farm system that produces star player after star player, and that's a LOT more than you can say for the Athletics. Billy Beane has to be one of the most overrated general managers in sports.
    Posted by davetheknave

     
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