Andrew Miller & Aceves

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    Andrew Miller & Aceves

     Watching Miller pitch is almost as excruciating as seeing Dice-k on the hill. Too many pitches, too deep into counts, 4 walks last night and it seems he loses his poise when the count goes to 3-2. On the rare occasions when he gets ahead of a hitter, say 0-2, he can't seem to punch them out. Salty also saved a couple of wild pitches with runners on 3rd base. Maybe he needs some time on the couch with the team psychologist because he kind of had that Matt Clement-deer-in-the-headlights-look last night on the mound.
     On the plus side Aceves turned in a fine performance last night. After that dreadful 5 straight walks performance awhile back he hadn't looked good. Maybe he spent some beneficial time on the couch in the interim!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from the_yazzer. Show the_yazzer's posts

    Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves

    i don't think miller is the 'miracle' some on this board(bill) think he is.
    but, what the hell, he's still better than SLACKEY and a lot less expensive.
    i hope miller proves me wrong.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves

    In Response to Andrew Miller & Aceves:
    [QUOTE] Watching Miller pitch is almost as excruciating as seeing Dice-k on the hill. Too many pitches, too deep into counts, 4 walks last night and it seems he loses his poise when the count goes to 3-2. On the rare occasions when he gets ahead of a hitter, say 0-2, he can't seem to punch them out. Salty also saved a couple of wild pitches with runners on 3rd base. Maybe he needs some time on the couch with the team psychologist because he kind of had that Matt Clement-deer-in-the-headlights-look last night on the mound.  On the plus side Aceves turned in a fine performance last night. After that dreadful 5 straight walks performance awhile back he hadn't looked good. Maybe he spent some beneficial time on the couch in the interim!
    Posted by trouts[/QUOTE]

    Miller struggled a bit last night but has been fairly consistent otherwise.  Aceves has also had a couple bad days with his control but the Sox are fortunate to have them both.  Otherwise I don't think we would be in first place.  I give Theo a lot of credit because in the past he hasn't been vey good at picking up stray pitchers.
     
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    Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves

    In Response to Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves:
    [QUOTE]i don't think miller is the 'miracle' some on this board(bill) think he is. but, what the hell, he's still better than SLACKEY and a lot less expensive. i hope miller proves me wrong.
    Posted by the_yazzer[/QUOTE]

    I think your right.

    Miller has not been lights out at all, but he has pitched well.  Not great but above average, and considering what he has done in the Bigs before and what we paid for him then I would still consider this a huge steal if miller can continue to do what he has been doing.

    What I would like to see is him go a little deeper into the game...but we shall see. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from niz-58. Show niz-58's posts

    Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves

    In Response to Andrew Miller & Aceves:
    [QUOTE] Watching Miller pitch is almost as excruciating as seeing Dice-k on the hill. Too many pitches, too deep into counts, 4 walks last night and it seems he loses his poise when the count goes to 3-2. On the rare occasions when he gets ahead of a hitter, say 0-2, he can't seem to punch them out. Salty also saved a couple of wild pitches with runners on 3rd base. Maybe he needs some time on the couch with the team psychologist because he kind of had that Matt Clement-deer-in-the-headlights-look last night on the mound.  On the plus side Aceves turned in a fine performance last night. After that dreadful 5 straight walks performance awhile back he hadn't looked good. Maybe he spent some beneficial time on the couch in the interim!
    Posted by trouts[/QUOTE]

    He pitched well enough to get a win. That's good enough for me right now.
     
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    Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves

    Jeez, a mediocre start and some of you folks are throwing a reclamation project under the bus.  While I didn't see this latest outing, I have modest expectations for a guy who has struggled so much in his MLB career.   I'm thrilled with what he's given the team so far and I'm hoping for the best going forward.  Let's spare him the Sandy Koufax/Randy Johnson expectations while he just tries to reestablish himself as a competent enough MLB pitcher that can pitch a quality start and keep the team in the game, something that he's managed to do up to this point. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from sindarin-erebor. Show sindarin-erebor's posts

    Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves

    If he can stick as a solid #5, he would have been a great addition. I will so take his three wins right now!!! We just need him to be serviceable, keep us in the game until the BP can be used. And he is so much better than Lackey....of course any pitcher in MLB would fit that description.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pschuller. Show pschuller's posts

    Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves

    In Response to Andrew Miller & Aceves:
    [QUOTE] Watching Miller pitch is almost as excruciating as seeing Dice-k on the hill. Too many pitches, too deep into counts, 4 walks last night and it seems he loses his poise when the count goes to 3-2. On the rare occasions when he gets ahead of a hitter, say 0-2, he can't seem to punch them out. Salty also saved a couple of wild pitches with runners on 3rd base. Maybe he needs some time on the couch with the team psychologist because he kind of had that Matt Clement-deer-in-the-headlights-look last night on the mound.  On the plus side Aceves turned in a fine performance last night. After that dreadful 5 straight walks performance awhile back he hadn't looked good. Maybe he spent some beneficial time on the couch in the interim!
    Posted by trouts[/QUOTE]

    No comparison to Dice on the Excruciation Factor. Miller has more upside and might blossom under Lester's wing, unlike Dice, who not only wouldn't listen to anyone else, he didn't even bother to learn some English so he could listen from time to time. If you know for a fact that Miller is that obstinant, then I will concede some reason to compare the two, otherwise, I would rather have Miller by a long shot.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from siestafiesta. Show siestafiesta's posts

    Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves

    Sheriff-Rojas hit it on the head.  We picked up this guy off the scrap heap for nothing yet some here expect him to be Randy Johnson.  He hasn't been great but far from terrible.  He's kept us in every game he's started.  we should be happy about that.  He's also been victimized by some bad defense last night and in a previous start
     
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    Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves

    The OP is typical of Trouts. Nothing new here.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves

    In Response to Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves:
    [QUOTE]Jeez, a mediocre start and some of you folks are throwing a reclamation project under the bus.  While I didn't see this latest outing, I have modest expectations for a guy who has struggled so much in his MLB career.   I'm thrilled with what he's given the team so far and I'm hoping for the best going forward.  Let's spare him the Sandy Koufax/Randy Johnson expectations while he just tries to reestablish himself as a competent enough MLB pitcher that can pitch a quality start and keep the team in the game, something that he's managed to do up to this point. 
    Posted by Sheriff-Rojas[/QUOTE]
     Nobody suggested that this guy be thrown under the bus. My comments were only regarding how he and Aceves pitched last night. Since you didn't watch the game, I'm not sure how objective your comments are. I think that Aceves pitched well last night and that Miller had trouble finding the plate. Am I glad that both of these guys are pitching for the Sox? Absolutely! Can his control issues be improved? I certainly hope so, because if that happens we'll certainly have gotten a gem of a hurler.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves

    The thing that worries me about Miller ( other than his control ) is that his velocity is not nearly what had been advertised.  Has he dialed it down, hoping to improve his command or was it just over hyped?  He does not seem able to amp it up , even when he needs a strikeout. He has gotten by with it so far , but if all he has is a 92 mph fastball , without much command of it , I don't think he will be able to have continued success.  I would say that the jury is still out on him.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves

    In Response to Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves :  Nobody suggested that this guy be thrown under the bus. My comments were only regarding how he and Aceves pitched last night. Since you didn't watch the game, I'm not sure how objective your comments are. I think that Aceves pitched well last night and that Miller had trouble finding the plate. Am I glad that both of these guys are pitching for the Sox? Absolutely! Can his control issues be improved? I certainly hope so, because if that happens we'll certainly have gotten a gem of a hurler.
    Posted by trouts[/QUOTE]

    Well, OK then, but I wasn't aiming for objectivity.  Just some perspective.  You did say it was almost as excruciating to watch Miller last night as it was to watch Dice-K and suggested time on the couch for him on the basis of a borderline outing.  In that case, you should have been the one who missed the game last night and could use a little time away from the couch, or at least away from the one in which you eat potato chips on.   
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves

    In Response to Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves:
    [QUOTE]The thing that worries me about Miller ( other than his control ) is that his velocity is not nearly what had been advertised.  Has he dialed it down, hoping to improve his command or was it just over hyped?  He does not seem able to amp it up , even when he needs a strikeout. He has gotten by with it so far , but if all he has is a 92 mph fastball , without much command of it , I don't think he will be able to have continued success.  I would say that the jury is still out on him.
    Posted by dgalehouse[/QUOTE]

    Are you kidding me? A 92 mph fastfall from a lefty is fine. His command has been up and down but it's been good enough to have a sub-4.00 ERA in his three or four starts.

    Since consistency with his mechanics has been his problem, I think he's dialed it down while he works on consistency (just guessing). Hopefully, once he finds that consistency, he'll be able to amp up his fastball.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves

     Sheriff, If you get a chance watch a rerun of the game and you'll see what I mean. I don't back off the Dice-k comment. It was Dice-k esque in that it was about 100 pitches for 5 innings with 4 walks and numerous long counts. Not only was I frustrated but you can bet that it's difficult to play in the field behind that kind of outing. I think I looked at my watch in the 4th inning and the game was already 2 hours old. As for couch time and chips, I'm a downtown bar guy and the free peanuts are a much healthier way to go.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves

    In Response to Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves : Are you kidding me? A 92 mph fastfall from a lefty is fine. His command has been up and down but it's been good enough to have a sub-4.00 ERA in his three or four starts. Since consistency with his mechanics has been his problem, I think he's dialed it down while he works on consistency (just guessing). Hopefully, once he finds that consistency, he'll be able to amp up his fastball.
    Posted by royf19[/QUOTE]
    Are you kidding me?  A 92 mph fastball , without command will not work.  The report on him was that he threw in the high 90's, topping out as high as 99.  He struggled plenty last night , but was able to avoid the big inning. That is to his credit. I was not overly impressed with what I saw. Hopefully , he will be able to amp up his fastball , because he is going to need it.  At this point, Aceves is a better pitcher.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves

    In Response to Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves:
    [QUOTE]Jeez, a mediocre start and some of you folks are throwing a reclamation project under the bus.  While I didn't see this latest outing, I have modest expectations for a guy who has struggled so much in his MLB career.   I'm thrilled with what he's given the team so far and I'm hoping for the best going forward.  Let's spare him the Sandy Koufax/Randy Johnson expectations while he just tries to reestablish himself as a competent enough MLB pitcher that can pitch a quality start and keep the team in the game, something that he's managed to do up to this point. 
    Posted by Sheriff-Rojas[/QUOTE]


    And here I was going to give Miller kudos for helping to fill the gap and giving us some hope while the starters were hurt or gone for the season.

    It's great that Salty saved a couple runs.  Props to him ... but excuse me if that doesn't prove the point that our catcher is GETTING THE JOB DONE.  Which is really cool. 

       A new hope being built by Miller, who's only 3-0 and should be 4-0, since coming up.

      And Salty, well, well, well ...  better and better all the time.


    I see PLUSES not reasons to whine. 

       Miller's ghost has been his control.  Most of the time he's pitched with Boston he has managed it well.  A game where he struggles a bit and still only gives up a few runs ... I'll take that.


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves

    In Response to Andrew Miller & Aceves:
    [QUOTE] Watching Miller pitch is almost as excruciating as seeing Dice-k on the hill. Too many pitches, too deep into counts, 4 walks last night and it seems he loses his poise when the count goes to 3-2. On the rare occasions when he gets ahead of a hitter, say 0-2, he can't seem to punch them out. Salty also saved a couple of wild pitches with runners on 3rd base. Maybe he needs some time on the couch with the team psychologist because he kind of had that Matt Clement-deer-in-the-headlights-look last night on the mound.  On the plus side Aceves turned in a fine performance last night. After that dreadful 5 straight walks performance awhile back he hadn't looked good. Maybe he spent some beneficial time on the couch in the interim!
    Posted by trouts[/QUOTE]

    Let's draw some analogies to get a frame of reference. Lester threw too many pitches in his early years. Buch still does. This is normal for young pitchers, as they learn their art. Dice was another matter all together.

    Yesterday, Miller was throwing 89-90 in the first inning trying to establish his FB so as to set up his change. His mechanics were off. That's why he has hit so hard.

    After the first inning, the flaw was located and he was dialing it up to 92-93 and had some margin for error.
    In his case, a history of compromised control will tie into his erratic mechanics.
    This guy is a work in progress, as are most young pitchers. It takes time to develop them. Nothing great is expected given the expenditure, so just be happy we have him for depth and enjoy the process of growth.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves

    In Response to Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves:
    [QUOTE] Sheriff, If you get a chance watch a rerun of the game and you'll see what I mean. I don't back off the Dice-k comment. It was Dice-k esque in that it was about 100 pitches for 5 innings with 4 walks and numerous long counts. Not only was I frustrated but you can bet that it's difficult to play in the field behind that kind of outing. I think I looked at my watch in the 4th inning and the game was already 2 hours old. As for couch time and chips, I'm a downtown bar guy and the free peanuts are a much healthier way to go.
    Posted by trouts[/QUOTE]

    But if it were Dice-K-esque in that the Red Sox still secured the win like they did in many Dice-K games in 2008, then I'll take it.  Also, Dice-K cost the team $100 million for your discomfort, while Miller was a huge bargain by comparison, although  maybe it cost you some extra bucks for another drink or two while you're figiting in your seat at that downtown bar.   
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves

    Oh goody. Trouts is back.  Just in time, too, because for a second there, it looked like the whining might be getting dangerously close to the Tolerable Zone.

    As for Miller, yes it is truly sad that we were unable to get a Pedro Martinez clone after surrendering a valuable trade chip like Dustin Richardson.

    Or will we be seeing more stupid posts like "For $170mill, we should have Cy Young candidates in Pawtucket"?
     
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    Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves



    We lost Richardson??!!!
     
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    Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves

    In Response to Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves:
    [QUOTE]We lost Richardson??!!!
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    It's ok, Harness ... it wasn't Renee ....
     
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    Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves

    In Response to Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Andrew Miller & Aceves :  Nobody suggested that this guy be thrown under the bus. My comments were only regarding how he and Aceves pitched last night. Since you didn't watch the game, I'm not sure how objective your comments are. I think that Aceves pitched well last night and that Miller had trouble finding the plate. Am I glad that both of these guys are pitching for the Sox? Absolutely! Can his control issues be improved? I certainly hope so, because if that happens we'll certainly have gotten a gem of a hurler.
    Posted by trouts[/QUOTE]

    Trouts,
    Perhaps you should have tried to qualify your statement in the orginal post with the "last night" Miller struggled to find the plate or words to that efect. Because after reading it I came away with the impression that your opin was that Miller is a liabilty and shouldn't even be on the roster. When in fact he's done an outstanding job of keeping us in every game he's pitched to date and the Sox are 4-0 when he takes the ball. Is there room for improvement absolutely, my guess is he's workng his tail off to do just that. His issue has nothing to do with deer in the headlights, it's all mechnics and that's why we got him for a song...As for Aceves, he's also exceeded expectations and like Miller he has his own issues that led to him becoming a FA. Both have benefited from being with the Sox and both I am sure will continue to work hard to improve. every pitcher will struggle at times, the good ones don't string bad outings together...
     

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