Angels get Tommy Hanson for Jordan Walden

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Angels get Tommy Hanson for Jordan Walden

    In response to redsoxpride34's comment:

    sox fans have every right to be angry and upset. its frustrating when u see a guy like hanson who is young and has potential to be a front of the rotation starter traded for a reliever and all you hear about the sox is how they are interested in a bunch of players but yet so far all we have to show for it is david ross and johnny gomes, two bench players. i know when i found out about the hanson deal i thought to myself, wow the sox could have got him if thats all the angels were asking for? I as well as many other sox fans are tired of hear about the sox being interested in guys like dempster (the fact that the sox are interested in him makes u wonder how smart ben c and co are as he got destroyed in the AL last year with texas) , victorino, ross, etc. Not to mention the fact that you see other teams filling holes on their rosters yet the sox who perhaps have the most holes out of any big market team have yet to fill any of them. thinking about it, we have not filled one hole since free agency started. all ben c has done is over spend on back ups. 5 mill per for johnny gomes? really? he is worth half of that. Needless to say, the sox needed a guy like hanson much more than the angels. yet we miss out yet again.


    Whom specifically could the Red Sox have offered to top the offer of 25-year-old former All Star closer Jordan Walden?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: Angels get Tommy Hanson for Jordan Walden

    we have plenty of bullpen pieces we could have offered and could have given them 2 for 1, say bard + morales or something along those lines. plus non-bullpen guys too, we have pieces. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from iamme17. Show iamme17's posts

    Re: Angels get Tommy Hanson for Jordan Walden

    In response to redsoxpride34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    we have plenty of bullpen pieces we could have offered and could have given them 2 for 1, say bard + morales or something along those lines. plus non-bullpen guys too, we have pieces. 

    [/QUOTE] the braves wouldn't be interested in 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 deals.Like all contenders and pretenders they want quality,not quantity.And Bard and Morales ain't quality after their 2012 seasons,at least not compared to Walden. 
    .

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Angels get Tommy Hanson for Jordan Walden

    In response to hill55's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to redsoxpride34's comment:

    sox fans have every right to be angry and upset. its frustrating when u see a guy like hanson who is young and has potential to be a front of the rotation starter traded for a reliever and all you hear about the sox is how they are interested in a bunch of players but yet so far all we have to show for it is david ross and johnny gomes, two bench players. i know when i found out about the hanson deal i thought to myself, wow the sox could have got him if thats all the angels were asking for? I as well as many other sox fans are tired of hear about the sox being interested in guys like dempster (the fact that the sox are interested in him makes u wonder how smart ben c and co are as he got destroyed in the AL last year with texas) , victorino, ross, etc. Not to mention the fact that you see other teams filling holes on their rosters yet the sox who perhaps have the most holes out of any big market team have yet to fill any of them. thinking about it, we have not filled one hole since free agency started. all ben c has done is over spend on back ups. 5 mill per for johnny gomes? really? he is worth half of that. Needless to say, the sox needed a guy like hanson much more than the angels. yet we miss out yet again.



    Whom specifically could the Red Sox have offered to top the offer of 25-year-old former All Star closer Jordan Walden?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Felix Doubront.    He has less service time that Walden, and was worth 2.1WAR as opposed to Walden, who was worth 0.5WAR, per fangraphs...

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Angels get Tommy Hanson for Jordan Walden

    In response to iamme17's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to redsoxpride34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    we have plenty of bullpen pieces we could have offered and could have given them 2 for 1, say bard + morales or something along those lines. plus non-bullpen guys too, we have pieces. 

    [/QUOTE] the braves wouldn't be interested in 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 deals.Like all contenders and pretenders they want quality,not quantity.And Bard and Morales ain't quality after their 2012 seasons,at least not compared to Walden. 
    .

    [/QUOTE]

    Have you seen the names of some of the pitchers on some contenders and pretenders staffs?

    Pitchers like Aceves, Breslow, Morales, Doubront, Tazawa, Miller, Mortensen, and maybe even Bard represent an uptick to many GMs.

    We can involve another team or just trade 2-3 of these guys for a nice prospect and then swap some prospects to a team that is not a contender or pretender and get a quality player who is under team control for 3+ years.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Angels get Tommy Hanson for Jordan Walden

    In response to notin's comment:

    Felix Doubront.    He has less service time that Walden, and was worth 2.1WAR as opposed to Walden, who was worth 0.5WAR, per fangraphs...


    I don't think Atlanta was in the market for another starter, but then I did not think the Braves were in the market for another bullpen arm.

    From a Red Sox perspective, three arbitration years of Tommy Hanson probably is not worth five years of Felix Doubront.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from iamme17. Show iamme17's posts

    Re: Angels get Tommy Hanson for Jordan Walden

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to iamme17's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to redsoxpride34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    we have plenty of bullpen pieces we could have offered and could have given them 2 for 1, say bard + morales or something along those lines. plus non-bullpen guys too, we have pieces. 

    [/QUOTE] the braves wouldn't be interested in 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 deals.Like all contenders and pretenders they want quality,not quantity.And Bard and Morales ain't quality after their 2012 seasons,at least not compared to Walden. 
    .

    [/QUOTE]

    Have you seen the names of some of the pitchers on some contenders and pretenders staffs?

    Pitchers like Aceves, Breslow, Morales, Doubront, Tazawa, Miller, Mortensen, and maybe even Bard represent an uptick to many GMs.

     

    [/QUOTE]    Well that's true moon but the point is that these contenders AIN'T gonna offer a BETTER quality player for a 2 or 3 multi-player swap.
    And as soon as you offer 2 or 3 for 1 you're offering 2nd raters for a much better player ,aren't you?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Angels get Tommy Hanson for Jordan Walden

    Most teams would like to trade two or three lesser players on their 40-man roster for one better player. That's why it rarely happens.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Angels get Tommy Hanson for Jordan Walden

    A good trade for the Angels.  Hanson was not needed for Boston because the Red Sox need a top starter. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Angels get Tommy Hanson for Jordan Walden

    Needless to say, the sox needed a guy like hanson much more than the angels. yet we miss out yet again. 

    Doesn't the loss in velocity or the shoulder issues bother you?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Angels get Tommy Hanson for Jordan Walden

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Needless to say, the sox needed a guy like hanson much more than the angels. yet we miss out yet again. 

    Doesn't the loss in velocity or the shoulder issues bother you?

    [/QUOTE]


    they traded 1 bad shoulder for another. hanson was not needed on this team. waste of a roster spot and player/prospect

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Angels get Tommy Hanson for Jordan Walden

    In response to hill55's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to notin's comment:

    Felix Doubront.    He has less service time that Walden, and was worth 2.1WAR as opposed to Walden, who was worth 0.5WAR, per fangraphs...



    I don't think Atlanta was in the market for another starter, but then I did not think the Braves were in the market for another bullpen arm.

     

    From a Red Sox perspective, three arbitration years of Tommy Hanson probably is not worth five years of Felix Doubront.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think the Braves were looking to free up salary to pursue a particular FA on their radar.  They most likely went to the Angels with the deal or had been discussing the deal with the Angels.  Braves are SP rich and have two good young arms ready to go into their rotation in 2013. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Angels get Tommy Hanson for Jordan Walden

    In response to hill55's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to notin's comment:

    Felix Doubront.    He has less service time that Walden, and was worth 2.1WAR as opposed to Walden, who was worth 0.5WAR, per fangraphs...



    I don't think Atlanta was in the market for another starter, but then I did not think the Braves were in the market for another bullpen arm.

     

    From a Red Sox perspective, three arbitration years of Tommy Hanson probably is not worth five years of Felix Doubront.

    [/QUOTE]


    Of course it isn't.  I just wanted to see if anyone who insists the Sox "need" Hanson felt he was not as good as our worst starter...

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Angels get Tommy Hanson for Jordan Walden

    In response to hill55's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Most teams would like to trade two or three lesser players on their 40-man roster for one better player. That's why it rarely happens.

    [/QUOTE]

    Teams surely would trade a good positional player (and maybe a prospect as well) for 2-3 pitchers from this pool for a nice prospect:

    Morales

    Doubront

    Aceves

    Tazawa

    Breslow

    Miller

    You may not like their recent WARs, but the state of many team's pitching staffs are loaded with players much worse than these guys. Many teams would give up a lot to get 2-3 of these pitchers.

    Some of those teams do not have the resources to get FA pitchers at today's prices. We can. We can trade some of our pitching depth for a  high quality positional player, and then rebuild the staff via free agency or a further trade using prospects.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Angels get Tommy Hanson for Jordan Walden

    The teams that lack resources to pursue free agent pitchers are the same teams that prefer pre-arbitraiton players to the projected arbitration salaries of Alfredo Aceves ($2.6 million after a 2012 ERA of 5.36), Craig Breslow ($2.4 million), Andrew Miller ($1.4 million) and Franklin Morales ($1.4 million).

    If the Red Sox trade two or three of those pitchers, the Sox certainly would need to tap into the free agent market to avoid falling back on a pitching staff that finished 12th in the league in ERA and ninth in WAR.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Angels get Tommy Hanson for Jordan Walden

    If Tommy Hanson was the prize wouldn't signing Jair Jurrgens be a better value since he had a lost year and could be had just for cash.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: Angels get Tommy Hanson for Jordan Walden

    hanson at this point would be the sox #2 pitcher, yes he had some health issues last year but nothing overly concerning. jurjens would be an interesting pick up for the 4/5 spot, 26 years old, has had some good years. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Angels get Tommy Hanson for Jordan Walden

    Not sure why the uproar. Hanson is a pitcher I could have seen the Sox acquiring, but not one I really wanted. If he had anything left in the tank and any actual trade value, the Braves would not have dumped him off for some Mitch Williams 2.0 Reclamation Project whose only skill appears to be radar gun readings. Really, Walden steps in to be the worst pitcher in their bullpen.

     

    This deal was reportedly made by Atlanta to free up cash for a left fielder. Well, if Hanson had any actual trade value, why wouldn’t Atlanta have simply traded him for a LF, rather than going this roundabout method? Why not a straight up Mike Morse trade, which would take care of LF for a whopping $3mill net?

     

    The fans upset at not getting Hanson would be the first ones complaining had the Sox acquired him. “Why is Ben getting this oft-injured, declining velocity 5-inning pitcher with a 4.48ERA in the NL?” Book it.

     

    And for once, I would agree with them.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Angels get Tommy Hanson for Jordan Walden

    In response to redsoxpride34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    hanson at this point would be the sox #2 pitcher, yes he had some health issues last year but nothing overly concerning. jurjens would be an interesting pick up for the 4/5 spot, 26 years old, has had some good years. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Either you have never seen Tommy Hanson pitch, or you have never seen one of Lester or Buchholz pitch.  Of course there is also the possibility you did not know what you saw, too.

     

    Hanson is not that good.  If Hanson was a capable TOR starter s you are stating, why on Earth would Atlanta deal him for a relief pitcher who washed out of the closer role and has control problems?

     

    You might think you know Hanson better than Frank Wren, but you do not.

    By the way, Hanson's injuries are not minor.  Last season, he had a strained lower back.  The year before - rotator cuff.  His elbow is also of major concern, and he will probably undergo TJ surgery in the next year or two.  The article about the trade on fangraphs was called, and I quote "Angels Replace Risky Dan Haren with Risky Tommy Hanson."

    This is not a guy I want a the top of my rotation.

    Hanson is a big name, as he was a top prospect, so fans overreact and think he still has it.  He barely does.   Be thankful he went elsewhere...

     

     

    Jurrjens is worth a look because he costs nothing.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Iceman4. Show Iceman4's posts

    Re: Angels get Tommy Hanson for Jordan Walden

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Needless to say, the sox needed a guy like hanson much more than the angels. yet we miss out yet again. 

    Doesn't the loss in velocity or the shoulder issues bother you?

    [/QUOTE]

    Didn't bother FO with Lackey

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Angels get Tommy Hanson for Jordan Walden

    In response to Iceman4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Needless to say, the sox needed a guy like hanson much more than the angels. yet we miss out yet again. 

    Doesn't the loss in velocity or the shoulder issues bother you?

    [/QUOTE]

    Didn't bother FO with Lackey

    [/QUOTE]

    If only we had those trade pieces back...

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Angels get Tommy Hanson for Jordan Walden

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The fans upset at not getting Hanson would be the first ones complaining had the Sox acquired him. “Why is Ben getting this oft-injured, declining velocity 5-inning pitcher with a 4.48ERA in the NL?” Book it.

    [/QUOTE]

    your absolutely right about this. theres no pleasing them.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Angels get Tommy Hanson for Jordan Walden

    In response to Iceman4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Needless to say, the sox needed a guy like hanson much more than the angels. yet we miss out yet again. 

    Doesn't the loss in velocity or the shoulder issues bother you?

    [/QUOTE]

    Didn't bother FO with Lackey

    [/QUOTE]

    1-He didn't have a loss in velocity.

    2-The shoulder issues bothered them enough to have a clause requiring a free year if he had shoulder surgery.

    So you tried to avoid the question by asking a question, but just didn't ask good questions.

    So does the loss in velocity and shoulder issues bother you?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Angels get Tommy Hanson for Jordan Walden

    In response to iamme17's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to redsoxpride34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    we have plenty of bullpen pieces we could have offered and could have given them 2 for 1, say bard + morales or something along those lines. plus non-bullpen guys too, we have pieces. 

    [/QUOTE] the braves wouldn't be interested in 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 deals.Like all contenders and pretenders they want quality,not quantity.And Bard and Morales ain't quality after their 2012 seasons,at least not compared to Walden. 
    .

    [/QUOTE]


    I thought Morales did very well. A young cost controlled LH power pitcher has value...Bard needs to get back to where he was to regain any value.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Angels get Tommy Hanson for Jordan Walden

    In response to redsoxpride34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    hanson at this point would be the sox #2 pitcher, yes he had some health issues last year but nothing overly concerning. jurjens would be an interesting pick up for the 4/5 spot, 26 years old, has had some good years. 

    [/QUOTE]


    #2? Really? The guy could barely get out of the 5th inning and has had a major drop in velocity the last 3 years (from 95-96 to barely hitting 91MPH consistently) as well as having arm issues. Hes a very good candidate for the DL.

     

Share