Pedro still has at least 1 year of pre-arb before the arb years kick in. That's 4+ years of team control vs 6 weeks of a back-up catcher.
No matter how hard softy tries to twist the facts, BV was never going to play Shoppach more than maybe 30% tops the rest of the year, so in a sense, we traded about 12 games of Shoppach (at most since Lava will get some time) for 4+ years of a decent prospect. Maybe Beato will never help us in any way, but he may end up being a future trade chip to be packaged with others for a better player.
Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!
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Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!
posted at 8/17/2012 3:27 PM EDT
- moonslav59
- Posts: 35071
- First: 9/27/2005
- Last: 6/20/2013
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Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!
posted at 8/17/2012 3:48 PM EDT
- ZILLAGOD
- Posts: 10444
- First: 5/30/2008
- Last: 6/17/2013
In Response to Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!:How is it nobody ever mentions Theo trading future NL batting champ Freddy Sanchez for Jeff Supan? Sanchez hit .344 to win it at Pittsburgh, and is a .297 lifetime hitter. Solid defender, and 3 time All Star. Had to be one of the most lopsided trades ever.
Posted by rightymclefty
If I recall , at the time Freddy Sanchez was moved the Red Sox and most of the Major League scouts projected him as a bench player, not a starter.
The Red Sox needed a starting pitcher badly at the time. Suppan was considered a player that most playoff teams would gamble on as a rental player for the stretch run. An experienced veteran, Suppan lokked to be a positive addition.
Unfortunately it didn't work out. Suppan pitched sort of average, Sanchez became a better player than he was projected to be.
Just proves that GMs can make what appears to be the right move, but it may not work out right. I think if he had to do it again, he still makes that trade. -
Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!
posted at 8/17/2012 3:49 PM EDT
- ZILLAGOD
- Posts: 10444
- First: 5/30/2008
- Last: 6/17/2013
In Response to Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!:Pedro still has at least 1 year of pre-arb before the arb years kick in. That's 4+ years of team control vs 6 weeks of a back-up catcher. No matter how hard softy tries to twist the facts, BV was never going to play Shoppach more than maybe 30% tops the rest of the year, so in a sense, we traded about 12 games of Shoppach (at most since Lava will get some time) for 4+ years of a decent prospect. Maybe Beato will never help us in any way, but he may end up being a future trade chip to be packaged with others for a better player.
Posted by moonslav59
Excellent points. -
Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!
posted at 8/17/2012 3:50 PM EDT
- candre99
- Posts: 243
- First: 7/9/2006
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U mean shop patch, he of the 1,2,3, strikeouts /game. -
Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!
posted at 8/17/2012 3:54 PM EDT
- Drewski5
- Posts: 6442
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In Response to Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!:The Red Sox were 26-16 when Shoppach started. He's a catcher who had good enough numbers to split-time at the position. Salty has always been horrible as a catcher, and still is! The Red Sox should have extended Shoppach to a cheap low single digit one year contract with a team option and player buyout, to have a capable starter/split-time profile. The sell high windown on Salty has closed, which is part of the InEpstein DNA. If Cherry could only get used recapped tires for Shoppach, the Red Sox should have optioned Salty to AAA, if they weren't willing to trade him or wait until roster expansion to bring up Lavarnway.
Posted by TrotterNixonI think the sox werent optimistic about their chances of retaining Shoppach. I agree that he's a solid backup C (minus the unconfirmed gripes about PT, assuming theyre true) -
Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!
posted at 8/17/2012 3:56 PM EDT
- Drewski5
- Posts: 6442
- First: 1/20/2009
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In Response to Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!:How is it nobody ever mentions Theo trading future NL batting champ Freddy Sanchez for Jeff Supan? Sanchez hit .344 to win it at Pittsburgh, and is a .297 lifetime hitter. Solid defender, and 3 time All Star. Had to be one of the most lopsided trades ever.
Posted by rightymcleftyEverybody is too busy complaining about how we got robbed trading Masterson for 1.5 yrs of VMART (a trade which was obviously lopsided in our favor) -
Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!
posted at 8/17/2012 4:23 PM EDT
- hill55
- Posts: 7762
- First: 1/14/2006
- Last: 6/19/2013
The Red Sox reportedly released Mark Prior to make room for Pedro Beato:
https://twitter.com/BWMcGair03/status/236551570962124800 -
Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!
posted at 8/17/2012 4:33 PM EDT
- moonslav59
- Posts: 35071
- First: 9/27/2005
- Last: 6/20/2013
In Response to Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!:In Response to Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy! : I think the sox werent optimistic about their chances of retaining Shoppach. I agree that he's a solid backup C (minus the unconfirmed gripes about PT, assuming theyre true)
Posted by Drewski5
If we deal Salty this winter, we can sign Shoppach this winter. He should get more playing time as Lava's back-up, especially if Papi walks and Lava DHs vs LHPs and several righties. -
Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!
posted at 8/17/2012 4:36 PM EDT
- andrewmitch
- Posts: 16690
- First: 6/4/2005
- Last: 9/23/2012
In Response to Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!:How is it nobody ever mentions Theo trading future NL batting champ Freddy Sanchez for Jeff Supan? Sanchez hit .344 to win it at Pittsburgh, and is a .297 lifetime hitter. Solid defender, and 3 time All Star. Had to be one of the most lopsided trades ever.
Posted by rightymclefty
And Freddie won a World Series........ -
Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!
posted at 8/17/2012 5:02 PM EDT
- Drewski5
- Posts: 6442
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In Response to Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!:In Response to Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy! : And Freddie won a World Series........
Posted by andrewmitchI named my uncle's cat freddie sanchez. Dont know why thats relevant but wanted to share. -
Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!
posted at 8/17/2012 5:06 PM EDT
- moonslav59
- Posts: 35071
- First: 9/27/2005
- Last: 6/20/2013
I didn't remember any Sox fans lamenting the loss of Freddie the day he was traded. -
Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!
posted at 8/17/2012 5:27 PM EDT
- gruv1145
- Posts: 20
- First: 5/5/2006
- Last: 3/5/2013
Minor league moves are the only ones Larry allows his minion to make. -
Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!
posted at 8/17/2012 6:17 PM EDT
- Mchampion
- Posts: 1729
- First: 5/31/2008
- Last: 6/11/2013
Theo created this mess for BC. There isn't much he can do. -
Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!
posted at 8/17/2012 6:38 PM EDT
- AL34
- Posts: 3951
- First: 6/6/2008
- Last: 6/19/2013
Thats not true there was talk of Shoppach being traded before the deadline in July. I would not thinkmthe rat was him. Remeber he was not with us last year people. to "Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!":In Response to Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy! : Red Sox management reportedly is concerned about leaks to the media. The Sox traded Kelly Shoppach the day Jeff Passan filed his report. The timing raises questions and I have no definitive answers. Posted by hill55 -
Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!
posted at 8/17/2012 6:49 PM EDT
- hill55
- Posts: 7762
- First: 1/14/2006
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In Response to Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!:Thats not true there was talk of Shoppach being traded before the deadline in July. I would not thinkmthe rat was him. Remeber he was not with us last year people. to "Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!":
Posted by AL34
Kelly Shoppach of course was the subject of trade rumors before the deadline, but most speculated a return better than a Pedro Beato.
Jeff Passan story focused on the reported team meeting before the July deadline. A source will sometimes give the media information about an institution on the condition that the information won't be published until after the source leaves that institution.
I have no information that Kelly Shoppach leaked the story of the July team meeting, but the timing of Shoppach's trade seems suspicious. -
Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!
posted at 8/17/2012 8:35 PM EDT
- moonslav59
- Posts: 35071
- First: 9/27/2005
- Last: 6/20/2013
I think they had planned on trading Shoppach at the deadline and bring Lava up as the back-up catcher. However, but when it appeared that Papi was not soon to return from the DL, they decided to keep Shoppach in case Lava was needed at DH. Ben tought we were still in it on July 31st. By the time he traded Shoppach, that belief might have changed. (We've gone 5-10 since the deadline.) -
Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!
posted at 8/17/2012 9:48 PM EDT
- royf19
- Posts: 8845
- First: 3/15/2009
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In Response to Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!:In Response to Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy! : Kelly Shoppach of course was the subject of trade rumors before the deadline, but most speculated a return better than a Pedro Beato. Jeff Passan story focused on the reported team meeting before the July deadline. A source will sometimes give the media information about an institution on the condition that the information won't be published until after the source leaves that institution. I have no information that Kelly Shoppach leaked the story of the July team meeting, but the timing of Shoppach's trade seems suspicious.
Posted by hill55
I've been thinking the same thing. -
Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!
posted at 8/17/2012 9:59 PM EDT
- Joebreidey
- Posts: 13762
- First: 5/30/2008
- Last: 6/19/2013
In Response to Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!:In Response to Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy! : Everybody is too busy complaining about how we got robbed trading Masterson for 1.5 yrs of VMART (a trade which was obviously lopsided in our favor)
Posted by Drewski528-40 with a 4.15 and a 1.403 Whip. Not bad, but I'd rather have an AS catcher for 1.5 years, along with the two draft picks obtained when they let him go. Even without getting VMart, I wouldn't trade Barnes and Owens for Masterson. -
Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!
posted at 8/17/2012 10:01 PM EDT
- Joebreidey
- Posts: 13762
- First: 5/30/2008
- Last: 6/19/2013
In Response to Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!:In Response to Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy! : Exactly. We got Beato for 6 weeks of Shoppach. What's to complain about?
Posted by snakeoil123Some of these people just know nothing about BB. What did the OP really think we were going to get for a backup catcher that wasn't going to be on the team next year? -
Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!
posted at 8/17/2012 10:28 PM EDT
- AL34
- Posts: 3951
- First: 6/6/2008
- Last: 6/19/2013
One better Mark Prior was released. Just a chip off of the old block (Theo), another high upside guy who did not pan out. Another great pickup Ben. This team is dead if its depending on Ben to straighten out this team next year. -
Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!
posted at 8/17/2012 10:38 PM EDT
- hill55
- Posts: 7762
- First: 1/14/2006
- Last: 6/19/2013
From Adam Rubin of ESPN New York:
"• More on the justification of trading Pedro Beato for Kelly Shoppach:
On the acquiring end, the Mets deemed it valuable to have the free-agent-to-be Shoppach in-house for the final seven weeks of the season to gauge how good a match he is for them in terms of rapport with pitchers and adaptability to Mets philosophies. As for Beato, he had fallen into disfavor and was not long for the 40-man roster anyway.
A member of the organization described Beato's stuff as maddening. Sometimes the fastballs would come in at 96 mph; other outings they'd be 89 mph.
While most likely it will end up being Shoppach, the expectation is the Mets will pair a low-cost righty-hitting catcher such as him with Josh Thole in 2013. That way the available dollars can be focused on other positions of need. Thole should qualify for arbitration for the first time this offseason, despite less than three full years of major league service time, but his salary nonetheless will be modest.
Beato, incidentally, could face Buffalo this weekend with Triple-A Pawtucket."
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/post/_/id/54742/mets-expecting-kirk-to-return-to-majors-in-september -
Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!
posted at 8/17/2012 10:58 PM EDT
- Motown9009
- Posts: 157
- First: 8/4/2012
- Last: 9/7/2012
The Sox had Mark Prior? I think for fun they should have called him up just to see if he could throw a better start than Beckett. -
This post has been removed.
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Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!
posted at 8/18/2012 12:01 AM EDT
- DirtDawgSox
- Posts: 212
- First: 9/14/2011
- Last: 9/3/2012
In Response to Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!:The Red Sox were 26-16 when Shoppach started. He's a catcher who had good enough numbers to split-time at the position. Salty has always been horrible as a catcher, and still is! The Red Sox should have extended Shoppach to a cheap low single digit one year contract with a team option and player buyout, to have a capable starter/split-time profile. The sell high windown on Salty has closed, which is part of the InEpstein DNA. If Cherry could only get used recapped tires for Shoppach, the Red Sox should have optioned Salty to AAA, if they weren't willing to trade him or wait until roster expansion to bring up Lavarnway.
Posted by TrotterNixon
I agree. Shoppach was a better catcher than Salty will ever be and was liked by the pitchers who did better with Shoppach catching them. -
Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!
posted at 8/18/2012 12:03 AM EDT
- DirtDawgSox
- Posts: 212
- First: 9/14/2011
- Last: 9/3/2012
In Response to Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy!:In Response to Re: Another stellar trade by the Blunder Boy! : I've been thinking the same thing.
Posted by royf19
I did think this too