answer me this

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: answer me this

    In Response to Re: answer me this:
    [QUOTE]Asd. Cabrera UZR / 150   2008, '09, '10, '11 : -15,  -7,  -13,  -21
    Posted by tom-uk[/QUOTE]

    For those who are fans of UZR.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

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    I read somewhere that Mantle could get down the line in 3.0 seconds before he messed up his knee. Is this true?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

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    [QUOTE]I read somewhere that Mantle could get down the line in 3.0 seconds before he messed up his knee. Is this true?
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    Yes, and even after the injury he was still very fast for awhile; he had to be to run down his misjudging of flyballs. (He actually won a GG in '62, but no one should compare him defensively to either DiMag, Mays, Blair, Flood, etc.) I always thought Piersall was one of the great OFers; he actually permanently hurt his arm (not his brain) when he partook in a throwing contest with Mays before the '57 AS Game. I actually saw him play yrs later in his twilight.
     
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    And by contrast, Ells gets down the line in 3.9 seconds. Think about that. Jake is one of the fastest players in the game - definitely one of the fastest in RS history.
    3.0 seconds is unreal! And to have that kind of raw power that Mantle processed.

    I forgot about Blair. He was quite good. Piersall was a natural. Among the highest LT fielding pct. But JoeD./TW were the best pure hitters. Mays/Mantle whiffed too much. Just an amazing era of baseball.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

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    In Response to Re: answer me this:
    [QUOTE]And by contrast, Ells gets down the line in 3.9 seconds. Think about that. Jake is one of the fastest players in the game - definitely one of the fastest in RS history. 3.0 seconds is unreal! And to have that kind of raw power that Mantle processed. I forgot about Blair. He was quite good. Piersall was a natural. Among the highest LT fielding pct. But JoeD./TW were the best pure hitters. Mays/Mantle whiffed too much. Just an amazing era of baseball.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    And they all did amphetamines to cure their hangovers, FWIW.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

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    In Response to Re: answer me this:
    [QUOTE]The problem with the gold glove is that unlike the batting ave leader, there's no set critiria or hardfast stat that is used to qualify who the best defensive player is at each position...We all know that fielding pct, which used to be the gold standard is also not a true measure of a players defensive ability... So to me it's all about the catchable ball and arm strength...the great defensive players alway catch the catchable ball and use thier arms to get a runner or impede a runner from advancing...Range is overrated in that it can be compensated for by proper positioning (see Cal Ripkien), if a fielder knows what and where the location of the the next pitch will be and the hitters tendencies, he can use that to a get a good read off the bat and thus get a good jump on the ball. There's more to being a great defensive player than range, but the best of alltime to a man (excluding corner infielders and cathcers) had the ability to run and or were very athletic...
    Posted by Beantowne[/QUOTE]

    Brooks Robinson, Mazeroski, and others don't conform to this.
     
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    Re: answer me this

    Instinct is said to over-ride athleticism. Jeter has this. But I personally think range is extremely important. And I'll take expansive range over sure-hands. I'm for taking chances. To me, good hands aside, not making errors means not getting to balls. That's why the whole GG process is tainted.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac32. Show pinstripezac32's posts

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    greetings beanetown

    Hey Zac...
    It's your game, but the rules are differnt for each position and player...so buy default there's no right answer to your querry...


    at 1st I thought that was a tad to convenient

    but as always you made a great case

    thanks for including my stipulation in your answer

    My take is Jeter wins gold gloves in part because he's Jeter ( I mean that respectfully)...The definition of a team player who has handled himself with class and dignity for his entire career, always steady, makes the routine plays look routine, rarely makes "mental errors" and is among the best SS in the game coming in on the ball and does all the little things that UZR can't measure. While there are a few guys today that are cleary more athletic and have far greater range than Jeter, there's no little "O" (Vizquel) currently playing the position.


    Why Jeter wins gold gloves is based in part on his rep...I have felt for years that short of having a guy in Vizquel or Ozzie's class at a given position. The gold glove has become less about a players defensive ability, apposed to the rest of his contemporaries and more about the players status in the game with his bat playing role too. When no "Iconic Player" is manning the position IMHO that's when young guys like Guiterez and Jones get thier shot. Over the years many have won the award based on thier rep vs thier ability and some fall into the "lifetime achievment" award class...Think Rafeal Palmiero who won the GG a few years back, though he plyed les than 20 games at the position...
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac32. Show pinstripezac32's posts

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    I think because Jeter is so well respected by players, managers, and fans, he won the GGs on reputation. He probably gets the "he's paid his dues" vote from managers, so if it's between him and a really good younger SS, managers think that eventually the younger SS will get his GG (due) in future years. The sabermaticians have, for a few years now, come to the opinion that his range is pretty bad. Also, he has a human vacuum cleaner at 1st base, so many potential throwing errors get scooped - ergo, no error. Thing is, I watch Sox games and only see opponent SS' a few times a year (outside of the east). We certainly don't have a GG'er, I don't think Toronto's, O's, or Rays' SS are any better than Jeter. May be beside the point anyway - other than the Ozzie's of the world, most folks don't get in the HOF based on D - if they did, Dewey would have gotten far more consideration - and Jeter's going in on his bat/leadership of an oft-champion.          


    solid & interesting post  gr82bme
                            
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac32. Show pinstripezac32's posts

    Re: answer me this

    Instinct is said to over-ride athleticism. Jeter has this. But I personally think range is extremely important. And I'll take expansive range over sure-hands. I'm for taking chances. To me, good hands aside, not making errors means not getting to balls. That's why the whole GG process is tainted.                     






    harness, I'm sure it's no surprise

    but we are 180 degree apart

    I'm with jimfromfla

    I'll take the sure hands over extra range everytime

    like jim mentions  below

    IMO an error  will play with a pitchers mind more than a ball getting thru



    Jeter deserves it. Yes he does not make as many plays as he used to.
    However he makes all the plays he gets to.He gives pitchers the faith that their SS will make every single play and not let them down.
    He also with his experience makes sure that all the other players know what the hell is going on. IMHO he also has made Cano a better second baseman.

    Any RS fan that say they'd rather have the revolving door at SS that the RS have had versus Jeter is a LIAR. Even when it was debated who was better Nomar or Jeter it was a toss up. If it were the opposite (Jeter on the RS) RS fans would have picked Jeter

    Ilove my Sox but would have loved to have Jeter here for his whole career and even now.                     
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac32. Show pinstripezac32's posts

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    I'm still waiting for the NY fans to respond...
    Posted by harness


    Most of them are slept late today and are now taking an afternoon nap to rest up for another late night in Seattle...                                  


    LOL BT
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: answer me this

    "Any RS fan that say they'd rather have the revolving door at SS that the RS have had versus Jeter is a LIAR. Even when it was debated who was better Nomar or Jeter it was a toss up. If it were the opposite (Jeter on the RS) RS fans would have picked Jeter"

    That's a flat out stupid statement.

    Notin please read the thread befre you put your foot in your mouth..........

    I just don't get why fans think its "embarrassing" to have a new shortstop every year. I mean, beyond the message board grief.

    No where did I say or did anyone say we were embarrassed by the revolving door.

    However we have said it would be good to get one for more than one year.

     

     Toronto was changing SS's as often as Boston, and no one ever mentioned it.

    And at the same time they always were also rans.

    I'll take 25 new players every year if it keeps producing a winner.

    Yes so would anyone but you know that is a dumb statement since it would never happen

     

    And over the last few years, the Red Sox have been the most successful in team's post WW I history.

    What has that got to do with that IMO that RS fans would have loved having Jeter here for his whole career

    If having the same shortstop year in/year out was so instrumental in success, why did Ernie Banks never win a World Series?

    Because the rest of the team suked. Just like it did for a lot of great players who never won a WS. Ted Williams, Yaz, Rice, etc…

    As for Jeter, there was a time when he was great, but he is in the waing years now. Ditto Posada. And frankly, his ego is holding the team back. A-Rod struggles in the post-season and gets demoted to 7th. But even hinting at dropping Posada and Jeter in the lineup, and the complaints fly...

    Man you really did not read any of the posts in this thread at all did you. It Had nothing to do with batting order for either Posada or Jeter.

     

    Let tell you what the thread was---- it was did Jeter deserve the GG last year????

    Learn to freakin’ read before you call anyone’s post stupid you dumb azz
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

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    Personal awards are meaningless in a team sport.  The Championship is all that matters and DJ has enough of them to secure his place in the history of the game.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac32. Show pinstripezac32's posts

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    slomag  '' Would this be the picture in that dictionary?''


     









    once again this slow nyyfan misses the joke

    what does  that have  pic  to do with jeets

    sure fielding  and winning 1st attitude


    I was thinking  more like this pic



















     
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac32. Show pinstripezac32's posts

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: answer me this : It's not a one-to-one relationship.  Look at Alexei Ramirez - he made more than 200 more plays than Jeter in 2010.  Some of that may be due to difference in pitching staffs (ground ball vs fly ball) but you have to think most if it was due to better range.  He made 14 more errors than Jeter on the season, so it's more like would you value the absence of an error over 10 hits being taken away. 
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    point taken

    but your point about different pitching staffs also stands strong
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: answer me this

    I must admit, I really hated Jeter for many years. Saw him as a smug little b@stard.
    The they got Aroid, and miraculously, I no longer hated Jete!

    Of course, I began to realize my disdain for Jeter was born out of respect. Once I saw him cutting up with Pedey/Youk, I began to...I hope the Pike police station is closed for the holiday...actually take a liking to him. And as long as he's played this game on the up & up, I look forward to him reaching a long-deserved milestone.

    BTW Zac: I found that a SS not getting to a reachable ball bothered me more than an error. I always felt bad when a teammate made an error. But otherwise, my thinking was "Christ! My grandmother could have gotten to that ball! No-good lazy..."
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: answer me this

    Few thoughts:

    Nomar was a better SS than Jeter for a time. Better hitter (though his patience rivaled serial free swingers like Vlady and Alhonso Soriano). He had more range and better arm, way better arm. But he did not pass the test of time. A-Rod eclipsed both of them when he played SS.

    Jeter has passed the test of time, what separates a Fred Lynn from HOF CF.

    RS fans are being disingenuous is they say the wouldn't like to have had Derek Jeter from 96-09. They are being painfully honest if they say they are glad the NYY resigned him to his current deal.

    Derek Jeter had a career like Dustin Pedroia has had in in his 1st few seasons. As RS fan I don't care that Cano is better, I like my guy, he fits my team and his presence beyond the stat sheet probably couldn't be filled by Robby. And I don't really care to find out. I think that was a lot of what Jeter is Better was about.

    Long ago New Yorkers depending where they lived in the city used to argue whether Mickey, Willie or the Duke was better. Seems silly huh? Willie #1, Mickey #2 and the Duke #3. But each fan meant it. And all three were great players.

    I would have loved for Jeter to have been a RS. Go ahead burn my RS Nation membership card if you like.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

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    I don't think there's any question Jeter would have been beloved by Sox fans if he had been in their uniform from the beginning.  Especially with the name Derek Sanderson Jeter.
     
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    You asked for this KATZ!!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOErZuzZpS8
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac32. Show pinstripezac32's posts

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    Go ahead burn my RS Nation membership card if you like.


    LOL 5katz
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

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    In Response to Re: answer me this:
    [QUOTE]I don't think there's any question Jeter would have been beloved by Sox fans if he had been in their uniform from the beginning.  Especially with the name Derek Sanderson Jeter.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]Were his parents Bruins fans?
     
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    carnie, Jeter had a grandfather named Sanderson and he says that's who he was named after, not the hockey player.
     
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    Derek Sanderson was a pocessed hippie on skates!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from fenwayjack2. Show fenwayjack2's posts

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    In Response to answer me this:
    [QUOTE]harness called out nyy fans on the topic so let me ask you all , but before you answer please follow my 1 stipulation at the end of this post OK we all heard it B4 , most of us have repeated such things, the rest of us  including me have agreed to a point with....  it's a popularity contest mgrs don't have time / interest  to check out the stats but I want to know why you think jeter has  won the GG the last 2 yrs my only stipulation is that the same reasons fits for Franklin Gutierrez & Adam Jones & Jeter I suggest the mgr's and coaches appreciate the guy who makes the simple plays in the big spots every time more than a lot of fans do
    Posted by pinstripezac32[/QUOTE]

    Jeter sells tickets.  He's TWO steps too slow now to get to balls in the hole but he's the face of the Yankees and apparently that matters, though I know not why.
     
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