Any of Hugh Still Think Webster is Good, i.e. #2 Red Sox pitching prospect?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Any of Hugh Still Think Webster is Good, i.e. #2 Red Sox pitching prospect?

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to notin's comment:

     

     

    So are you saying he will be a pretty good pitcher everywhere except Yankee Stadium?

     



    notin,

     

    A lot of things have changed since I first stated Webster may have some success at the major league level "like Hughes" but never be a #1 or 2 on any contending team.  Since that time I have seen little to convince me otherwise.  When I said things could change I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt but right now anyway his lack of control and variety of polished pitches just isn't here.  At this point watching Webster pitch is as predictable as Theo's boy David Pauley pitch.  Remember the kid Theo gave 6 starts to in 2008 and he never had a win?  Webster has had 13 and I'm sure most fans have seen enough for now.  Hughes is having one of his best years ever from a WHIP standpoint but he's now 28, not 21 when fans thought he and Clay would eventually be the next long term #1 for both the Yanks and Sox.  Webster may have similar success at some point but right now he doesn't have it.




Why do fans always leap at the most obscure names and cite them as obsessions of GMs thy didn't like?

 

And Dave Pauley did go on to have a few good seasons as a reliever, by the way.  Not that Pauley deserves a second chance, but 6 starts?  Give me a break.  I guess if you had been running the Blue Jays at the time, you would have said "Time to cut ties with this Halladay kid."  He has an ERA of 5.77 after 231 IP.  Clearly not MLB material.  And then tell Chris Carpenter he's next!!."   (Check out the disparity in Carpenter's early and late years someday.  Going to the NL helped, but he went from borderline starting pitcher to multiple Cy young winner practically overnight.)

 

As for Hughes, look at his career, since 2010 he has been pretty good away from Yankee Stadium.  It's no surprise 2014 has been a career year for him with fewer game at Yankee Stadium.   Hughes' career is more a matter of being misunderstood and unnoticed for his successes than one of being a bust prospect...

 
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Any of Hugh Still Think Webster is Good, i.e. #2 Red Sox pitching prospect?

    In response to notin's comment:

    As for Hughes, look at his career, since 2010 he has been pretty good away from Yankee Stadium.  It's no surprise 2014 has been a career year for him with fewer game at Yankee Stadium.   Hughes' career is more a matter of being misunderstood and unnoticed for his successes than one of being a bust prospect...

    [/QUOTE]

    The real topic here is Webster, after 13 starts most of us have seen enough for now.  The season has been hard enough without seeing this kid pitch any more innings right know.  Like Reddick, Kalish, Iggy, Hansen, Pauley, Workman, Middy, JBJ, Cecchini, Bogy and many others people have ranked so highly or taken a liking to, they simply either need more time, or will never be every day players.  2013 it was Iggy and Bogy which may have been an awful move but time will tell.  This season its JBJ and Betts and next possibly Vasquez and Swihart if Vas continues to struggle and Blake blossoms.

    Prospect rankings mean very little to me until I see these kids at the big league level.

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: Any of Hugh Still Think Webster is Good, i.e. #2 Red Sox pitching prospect?

    Without pounding the Strike Zone, any Pitcher will struggle. Putting Hitters in predictable hitting counts in the Majors and you'll probably have a Up and Down Career. Its amazing how this is not Stressed  hard enough at Lower Levels. This is Webster's biggest problem, control.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Any of Hugh Still Think Webster is Good, i.e. #2 Red Sox pitching prospect?

    In response to crazy-world-of-troybrown's comment:

    Without pounding the Strike Zone, any Pitcher will struggle. Putting Hitters in predictable hitting counts in the Majors and you'll probably have a Up and Down Career. Its amazing how this is not Stressed  hard enough at Lower Levels. This is Webster's biggest problem, control.


    Webster really doesn't have much of an arsenal of pitches.  He's too predictable, a 97MPH fastball and lack of other polished pitches that rarely find the strike zone.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: Any of Hugh Still Think Webster is Good, i.e. #2 Red Sox pitching prospect?

    Webster has an outstanding Change-up, but for this Pitch to work, you have to throw strikes. It has to have the illusion of a Fastball down the middle, but it just dies. Without throwing strikes, batters wont swing at it if they are ahead in the count. At least they shouldn't. Also if your ahead in the Count and throw a Change-up, you better be sure it is not thrown for a strike, otherwise they go a long way. So by being behind it almost takes that Pitch out in an at bat.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Any of Hugh Still Think Webster is Good, i.e. #2 Red Sox pitching prospect?

    In response to crazy-world-of-troybrown's comment:



    Webster has an outstanding Change-up, but for this Pitch to work, you have to throw strikes. It has to have the illusion of a Fastball down the middle, but it just dies. Without throwing strikes, batters wont swing at it if they are ahead in the count. At least they shouldn't. Also if your ahead in the Count and throw a Change-up, you better be sure it is not thrown for a strike, otherwise they go a long way. So by being behind it almost takes that Pitch out in an at bat.



    QUOTE:
    An outstanding change up and fastball both out of the zone adds up to failure and that's where Webster is at the moment.  Even if he does find his control, if he can't learn to hit spots it really won't matter much.  This isn't AAA and you can throw out all those prospect rankings of the past until the kid shows he can shut down major league batters enough to keep his team in a game.  He also won't survive in the majors unless he can develop a solid third pitch and not be so predictable.


     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Any of Hugh Still Think Webster is Good, i.e. #2 Red Sox pitching prospect?

    In response to az55's comment:

    Webster has good stuff. Control issues can be rectified on changing delivery style perhaps.




    If his stuff was so good, he would be getting batters out. His ERA is over 6.00 and he's not necessarily
    a 'prospect' anymore based on his age and where he is at.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from Javi60. Show Javi60's posts

    Re: Any of Hugh Still Think Webster is Good, i.e. #2 Red Sox pitching prospect?

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    I dont even think hes the #2 anymore.  I think hes a talented young pitcher with control problems, that alone may prevent him from ever being a mlb pitcher.  

    That doesnt mean he doesnt have good raw stuff and this all derived from me talking up his potential as a pitcher and at that time this little debate started Webster was #2 according to baseball america and soxprospects.

    thats not my opinion, nor am I hedging my bets on him im just stating the facts.   Its also fact that young players struggle, this is known so stop acting like you invented the wheel.

    Admittedly I might display too much patience  with the youngsters but you are often too far the other way with zero.  Seriously why dont you go email the guys over at soxprospects and baseball america....seriously...I dare you   



    We ha been waiting two years for him to explode ( hope he does sometime)... Imho he does not have guts, therefore his velocity is frequently spoiled... Best for Sox is get a good trade out of him alongside Workman, Middy, breslow, Mujica etc...bring Lester Back!

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from BogieAt12oclock. Show BogieAt12oclock's posts

    Re: Any of Hugh Still Think Webster is Good, i.e. #2 Red Sox pitching prospect?

    In response to ADG's comment:

    In response to az55's comment:

    Webster has good stuff. Control issues can be rectified on changing delivery style perhaps.




    If his stuff was so good, he would be getting batters out. His ERA is over 6.00 and he's not necessarily
    a 'prospect' anymore based on his age and where he is at.



    Yeah, but other than that.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Any of Hugh Still Think Webster is Good, i.e. #2 Red Sox pitching prospect?

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to notin's comment:

    As for Hughes, look at his career, since 2010 he has been pretty good away from Yankee Stadium.  It's no surprise 2014 has been a career year for him with fewer game at Yankee Stadium.   Hughes' career is more a matter of being misunderstood and unnoticed for his successes than one of being a bust prospect...

    The real topic here is Webster, after 13 starts most of us have seen enough for now.  The season has been hard enough without seeing this kid pitch any more innings right know.  Like Reddick, Kalish, Iggy, Hansen, Pauley, Workman, Middy, JBJ, Cecchini, Bogy and many others people have ranked so highly or taken a liking to, they simply either need more time, or will never be every day players.  2013 it was Iggy and Bogy which may have been an awful move but time will tell.  This season its JBJ and Betts and next possibly Vasquez and Swihart if Vas continues to struggle and Blake blossoms.

    Prospect rankings mean very little to me until I see these kids at the big league level.

     




    1.  Not sure why you like to keep adding Dave Pauley to the list of ranked Sox prospects who never made it.  He has never been a ranked prospect, save maybe an appearance ina team "Top Ten" list, which means less than nothing.

     

    2. So, would you have given up on Halladay early on in his career?  After 231 IP, the guy had an ERA of 5.77, 5.4K/9 and 4.8BB/9.  Sound like keeper material for you?

     

    Webster may or may not work out, but 14 starts and 65IP over 2 years is not a definitive answer either way.  One year ago, many of you were convinced Brandon Workman was a lock for a rotation spot forever, and how he was too good to waste in the pen.  Where are those Workman supporters now? 

     

    Craze, you yourself two years ago spent HOURS upon HOURS writing posts about how Pedro Ciriaco should be the Sox shortstop of the future, and how his minor league stats can be ignored because he clearly plays up to the competition.  Still stand behind that platform? At the time, I countered with an analysis about Ciriaco and how his success was due to small sample sizes and large BABIP numbers, and that he was due for a tailspin, which he promptly went on and hasn't stopped tailspinning since.   It was a similar analysis to what I ran with Nava this year when he was 11 for 81, and concluded he should go 27 for his next 81, which he did right down to the hit.  (Hey, I haven't mentioned that in a while. Cut me some slack, it was an impressive and gusty prediction.)

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  • You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Any of Hugh Still Think Webster is Good, i.e. #2 Red Sox pitching prospect?

    "I have always said and still believe Webster has a solid career in front of him as a middle reliever.  "

    I would appreciate it if you woudln't be so level headed. He is either an ace or a bust - there is no middle ground. That's the rules of the forum. 

      
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from Leftfielder61. Show Leftfielder61's posts

    Re: Any of Hugh Still Think Webster is Good, i.e. #2 Red Sox pitching prospect?

    Webster's build up and potential reminds me of 2 Sox pitching prospects in the late 70s - Don Aase and Joel Finch. Neither made it in the majors as a startier, but Aase was moved to the bp where he was a very successful closer for a few seasons. Finch after one season in Boston was out of baseball within a few years.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: Any of Hugh Still Think Webster is Good, i.e. #2 Red Sox pitching prospect?

    More important to throw Strikes out of Bullpen, than any other time. Usually close game, Runners might be on Base, last thing you need from the Bullpen is a guy that walks batters. Putting Tying or Go ahead runners on base, by the walk. Moving Runners on base up to scoring Position by walking.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Any of Hugh Still Think Webster is Good, i.e. #2 Red Sox pitching prospect?

    In response to crazy-world-of-troybrown's comment:

    More important to throw Strikes out of Bullpen, than any other time. Usually close game, Runners might be on Base, last thing you need from the Bullpen is a guy that walks batters. Putting Tying or Go ahead runners on base, by the walk. Moving Runners on base up to scoring Position by walking.



    true, but when you go to the bullpen you only need to focus on throwing a pitch or two.  It's easier to repeat your delivery every time when you aren't mixing up 3-4 different pitches.  This is why guys who struggle with command as starters carve out a nitch in the bullpen all the time; guys like Andrew Miller. 

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Any of Hugh Still Think Webster is Good, i.e. #2 Red Sox pitching prospect?

    The sample size is still way too small to know anything definitive about Webster.

    Sure, he has looked worse than bad in several starts, but it's really way too early to give up on him. 

    I think notin was right a while back about his eventual landing spot being the pen.

    Sox4ever

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: Any of Hugh Still Think Webster is Good, i.e. #2 Red Sox pitching prospect?

    He walked a lot of batters in the Minors too, looking at his history. 1 year 130 innings 61 BB's. Another year 121 innings 57 BB's, those are pretty high. Last year with Pawsox 105 innings 43 BB's. This year he improved a little with his command 122 innings with 44 BB's.
    I'm not trying to get down on anyone, its all good discussions here.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Any of Hugh Still Think Webster is Good, i.e. #2 Red Sox pitching prospect?

    In response to crazy-world-of-troybrown's comment:

    He walked a lot of batters in the Minors too, looking at his history. 1 year 130 innings 61 BB's. Another year 121 innings 57 BB's, those are pretty high. Last year with Pawsox 105 innings 43 BB's. This year he improved a little with his command 122 innings with 44 BB's.



    Its not uncommon for young pitchers to struggle with command.  FWIW Webster has the same BB/9 that Pedro had in the minors. And then Pedro walked 4.8/9 his first year.  

     

    Please note Im not saying Webster will become Pedro.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Any of Hugh Still Think Webster is Good, i.e. #2 Red Sox pitching prospect?

    Exactly, ct. The point is that some pitchers need time to get a grip on control issues. Webster's sample size is way too small to know anything for sure... good or bad.

    Sox4ever

     
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