Any opinions on these two?........Jeff Francis/Joe Nathan

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from sday4x4. Show sday4x4's posts

    Any opinions on these two?........Jeff Francis/Joe Nathan

    thoughts?.....Francis towards back end rotation.....ERA high but it's been KC...Nathan done??
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Any opinions on these two?........Jeff Francis/Joe Nathan

    Nathan is NOT done! 11/11 in save chances since All Star break. He was better than Papelbon before his arm blew out. But, whith Tommy John surgery how it is these days, and his post all star performance...I'd feel comfortable going with him for up to 3 years. If healthy, he is a STUD closer. I would still feel comfortable with Pap coming back first, but Nathan would be my first alternate choice, and Heath Bell behind him. If not those 3, I'd say give Aceves a shot for a year. But, hey, they still have Jenks under contract for a year!!!! (tongue FIRMLY in cheek)

    Jeff Francis I've never been a big fan of. I always thought he benefitted GREATLY because of the competition he pitched against in the NL, often in the NL West. AL West didn't provide much more in the competition dept, and he didn't perform well. A big NO THANKS on Francis for me.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Any opinions on these two?........Jeff Francis/Joe Nathan

    I think the question comes down too the moneys/years needed to sign Nathan vs Papelbon vs the expected return and when we factor in the cost given the teams needs. Would signing either makes us a better ballclub in 2012 and beyond if it precludes us from adding and or using those moneys to aquire and or sign a proven starter? I'd be inclined to simply hand the ball to Bard and give him a couple of months to show that he's up to the challenge of closing and bolster the pen with another big arm late innings guy to replace Bard (BRoxton?)...

    IMHO Francis falls into the category of organizational depth and what we need is a couple of guys that can give us innings and QS...Not sure that Francis would be near or at the top of my list. Check out his splits below he doesn't miss a ton of bats...

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/splits/_/id/6038/type/pitching3/jeff-francis

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/splits/_/id/6038/jeff-francis
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Any opinions on these two?........Jeff Francis/Joe Nathan

    Kazmir,Francis,Chen,Breslow,Lopez will all get a look by the Sox. Nathan would be at the top of my list as a replacement should Papelbum leave.With Frankie Rodriguez and Broxton as others who are available,fortunately for the Sox there are several good closers available should the mouth of the south leave...Bard isn't going anywheres he'll still be the main set up guy.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Any opinions on these two?........Jeff Francis/Joe Nathan

    I assume you could also include Ben Sheets to the list? My preference, while the list is intriguing, is to not have to rely on anyone listed...i.e. Paplbon leaves, Bard is bumped to closer and Broxton is brought in. That means depending on Broxton. This is a team very capable of winning the WS, and also very capable of paying anyone that can help to achieve that goal. I would hate to see short sightedness on Paplbon/Bard that was so effective, for $5-10 million over 2-3 years.
    I also dont want to see youth blocked. I much prefer to see Doubront in the starting rotation learning on the job as the #5 or #6. While he disappointed in AAA last year, I dont think there is much left for him to prove at that level. Pitch him, or move him in a package for other pieces.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from beavis. Show beavis's posts

    Re: Any opinions on these two?........Jeff Francis/Joe Nathan

    If Paps signs with Sox, Nathan would be interesting, but appears he wants the full time closing gig. He would be a nice addition to set-up role, ala what Jenks should have done last year.

    However, I remember few years back Paps when Paps wanted to be paid "like Joe Nathan" and Nathan basically stated that Paps should just shut up and like the veterans lead the way as far as what closers are worth.

    Is it me or are there some quality FA closers out there? This should help the Sox with getting something done with Paps.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from fourrings. Show fourrings's posts

    Re: Any opinions on these two?........Jeff Francis/Joe Nathan

    Francis sucks, Nathan not sure if he's all the way back yet
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from sindarin-erebor. Show sindarin-erebor's posts

    Re: Any opinions on these two?........Jeff Francis/Joe Nathan

    Francis, no, since 07 when he won 17 with the Rockies, he has won 4, 4, and 6 respectively in 08, 09 and 10. His innings pitched have gone from 215 in 07 to 143, 104 and 183. His ERA last year was 4.82 and was right at 5.00 in 09 and 08. No, no, no!!

    Nathan is 37 years old coming off TJ surgery and had a blown up ERA last year of 4.84. Pass.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Any opinions on these two?........Jeff Francis/Joe Nathan

    Intersting possibility with Papelbon:  The Sox have to offer arbitration to get the two picks he returns as a type A FA.  He might just accept arbitration and wait to become a FA at the end of 2012 when the field will be, presumably, less populated with closers and quality relievers.

    If Papelbon does leave via FA, I would prefer Heath Bell over Nathan.  For the Sox, Bell, a first round draft pick and a supplemental draft pick for what will probably be less money than Papelbon is looking for is the smart thing to do, IMO.

    Francis?  No.  Give the job to Weiland, Doubront, Fox, Duckworth, or even Andrew Miller.  You can expect more wins from any of them, I should think.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Any opinions on these two?........Jeff Francis/Joe Nathan

    In Response to Re: Any opinions on these two?........Jeff Francis/Joe Nathan:
    Intersting possibility with Papelbon:  The Sox have to offer arbitration to get the two picks he returns as a type A FA.  He might just accept arbitration and wait to become a FA at the end of 2012 when the field will be, presumably, less populated with closers and quality relievers. If Papelbon does leave via FA, I would prefer Heath Bell over Nathan.  For the Sox, Bell, a first round draft pick and a supplemental draft pick for what will probably be less money than Papelbon is looking for is the smart thing to do, IMO. Francis?  No.  Give the job to Weiland, Doubront, Fox, Duckworth, or even Andrew Miller.  You can expect more wins from any of them, I should think.
    Posted by parhunter1
    I don't think it would break the RS heart to get a one year deal with Pepelbon even if it was at $15M. But Papelbon is clearly the pick of the litter and is rated as such. One should no under estimate what it takes to be a closer in this market or the AL East. This isn't to say the RS can't do business without Papelbon but he is the best guy on the market at his position.  
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Any opinions on these two?........Jeff Francis/Joe Nathan

    Nathan is just another closer available this off-season.

    Between Papelbon, Bell, Madson, Cordero, K-Rod, Capps, Rauch, Francisco, Zumaya, Broxton, Nathan, Aardsma, Lidge, Isringhausen and Wood, it should not be too hard to find a relief pitcher with closing experience...
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Any opinions on these two?........Jeff Francis/Joe Nathan

    I am not a Bell fan. Fly ball pitcher at Petco. Hard to imagine in Fenway. I can see the Phil's in on Pap maybe, but they need to find 1b help, resign Hamels and maybe Rollins/Reyes. Do they have room for Pap? Who else is in on Pap? Cubs? Cards? Rangers? Not sure I see a lot of teams with need, pockets or philosophy on paying a closer that makes Paps so in demand. I know it takes only one team, but who? Yanks have Mo, Robertson, Soriano and Joba coming back. Mets have no $$.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Any opinions on these two?........Jeff Francis/Joe Nathan

    Nathan value is 2 years and 10M age and medical history

    Francis should be offered 1 year 1M deal plus up to 2M more for more than 12 starts (200K per start over 12 starts)

      
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Any opinions on these two?........Jeff Francis/Joe Nathan

    In Response to Re: Any opinions on these two?........Jeff Francis/Joe Nathan:
    In Response to Re: Any opinions on these two?........Jeff Francis/Joe Nathan : I don't think it would break the RS heart to get a one year deal with Pepelbon even if it was at $15M. But Papelbon is clearly the pick of the litter and is rated as such. One should no under estimate what it takes to be a closer in this market or the AL East. This isn't to say the RS can't do business without Papelbon but he is the best guy on the market at his position.  
    Posted by fivekatz


    I agree that the Sox wouldn't be too disapointed if he accepted arbitration. Though I doubt that Papelbon would even consider accepting. He's worked too hard and come to far not to take his services to market. While there is a glut of closers on the market, I don't see it impacting his value. There's two or three teams that I could see making a play for him that have a need and the moneys to make him a pretty compelling offer, like the Phillies (Madson?), the Tigers (Velverde?) and the Rangers (if they chose to move Feliz into the rotation next year). So in terms of the market they'll be plenty of suitors...

    The biggest question I see is how much did his late season implosions in 2009 and again last year cost him in terms of his reputation? He's no Mo, but he's pretty good.

    My personal opin on Papelbon is that he simply needs to learn to trust his splitter more and stop trying to be a one trick pony. Especially late in the year when he tires and loses command of his fastball and it starts to leak over the plate. If he can get hitters to repsect his splitter or slider. Then they can't look dead red away...95 on the black or at the letters is tough to square up...95 that catches a lot of the plate, in the big leagues, more often than not gets put into to play. So while I see a lot of value in having a closer with Papelbon's petigree. Frankly the last two times we've needed him to step up and shut the door 2009 vs the Angels and game 162 vs the Orioles he's coughed up leads when they counted most. In both instances he couldn't put guys away after getting ahead, kept pumping fastballs away and left one too many in an area where the hitter could put it in play....

    As for closing in the AL East, Farnsworth & Peralta both did pretty well closing for Tampa last year and Johnson was pretty lights out in September for the Orioles. If it were my decision to make I'd just hand the ball to Bard, and use the moneys earmarked for Papelbon and go after Wilson or Jackson and then look to sign a big arm to replace Bard in the 8th (Broxton?)...
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Any opinions on these two?........Jeff Francis/Joe Nathan

    Give Nathan a shot, I'm all for it. But you guys that want Bard for a closer are gonna be hatin' life if it happens.
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share