Anyone Else Loving Today's Moves?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Anyone Else Loving Today's Moves?

    Mixed emotions.

     

    On the one hand, it was good to see them get MLB talent and eliminate my worries of a long, drawn-out rebuild.  That they got guys like Cespedes and Craig does say they want to compete next year.  However, I really don't see how yet...

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Anyone Else Loving Today's Moves?

    Also, seriously, what was Andrew Friedman thinking?!?!  If he wanted Nick Franklin and Drew Smyly, he could have gotten both of them with any pitcher in his rotation!!

     

    A lot of people make it a heavy point to cite how bad Cherington's trades have been.  OK, nothing in Sox post WW I history was as bad as THAT deal, and somehow if the worst on Cherington's resume is Reddick for Bailey, it just doesn't look so bad anymore...

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Anyone Else Loving Today's Moves?

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Mixed emotions.

     

    On the one hand, it was good to see them get MLB talent and eliminate my worries of a long, drawn-out rebuild.  That they got guys like Cespedes and Craig does say they want to compete next year.  However, I really don't see how yet...

    [/QUOTE]

    They can't, notin. The entire rotation was jettisoned save for Buchholz, the one guy in the rotation who frankly is on thin ice with inconsistency. Now that his best buddies are gone, I expect him to get worse. The team is 3 SPs away from making the postseason again. 3.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Anyone Else Loving Today's Moves?

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Mixed emotions.

     

    On the one hand, it was good to see them get MLB talent and eliminate my worries of a long, drawn-out rebuild.  That they got guys like Cespedes and Craig does say they want to compete next year.  However, I really don't see how yet...

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]. Sounds like you are hedging your bets. Come on. Go out on the limb. Good day or bad? I say it was good.   

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Anyone Else Loving Today's Moves?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Mixed emotions.

     

    On the one hand, it was good to see them get MLB talent and eliminate my worries of a long, drawn-out rebuild.  That they got guys like Cespedes and Craig does say they want to compete next year.  However, I really don't see how yet...

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]. Sounds like you are hedging your bets. Come on. Go out on the limb. Good day or bad? I say it was good.   

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm ok with it, because I see the immediate goal.  I just don't think they are all that competitive with a rotation where Clay Buchholz is the only pitcher with more than 1 full season of MLB.

     

    I do think Joe Kelly was a good grab, but he is a middle rotation guy battling injuries this year.

     

    I think I will like it a lot better when I see what they can get for Cespedes in a trade. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Anyone Else Loving Today's Moves?

    We still have a lot of money to spend this winter. I haven't crunched all the new numbers yet, but Craig's luxury tax cost only counts at $6.2M and Cespedes at $9M. I think that leaves us about $65M to spend.

    Here's a rough outline of what next year's 40 man roster looks like before any winter moves are made:

    SP (choose 11): __________, __________, Kelly, Buchholz, de la Rosa, Workman, Ranaudo, Barnes, Owens, L. Diaz (?), Wright (?), Escobar

    RP (choose 8): __________, Tazawa, Breslow(?), Mujica (?), Britton, Webster, A Wilson, Hembree, N Ramirez

    C (choose 3): ___________, Vazquez, Swihart, Lavarnway or Butler

    1B (choose 2): Napoli, Carp or T Shaw

    2B (choose 1-2): Pedroia, Coyle or Herrera

    3B (3): Bogaerts (SS?), Middlebrooks (LF/1B?), Cecchini (LF?)

    SS (1): __________, Marrero (not needed to add to 40 man roster)

    LF (choose 2-3): Craig (1B?), Nava, Hassan, Brentz, de la Cruz

    CF (2-3): Bradley, Betts, H Ramos

    RF (3): Cespedes, Victorino, Holt (IF/OF)

    DH (1): Ortiz

    With about $65M to spend, we could sign: Shields ($22-23M/yr) and Uehara ($8-9M/yr), Pablo Sandoval ($14M/yr), and trade for Tulowitzki. ($16M/yr towards luxury tax budget, but $118M/6 or $129M/7 left to pay).

    Or, maybe sign another pitcher and let Bogey (if not dealt for Tulo) and Holt battle for the 3B position.

    I'm not saying this will all happen, of if I am even for all these suggestions, but I just listed them to show that we have the resources to build a highly competitive team next year.

     

    Sox4ever

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sobchack. Show Sobchack's posts

    Re: Anyone Else Loving Today's Moves?

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I like the moves and I think Cherington is aggressive at the winter meetings. Once those meetings are over everyone can assess the 2015 Sox lineup. Now until the end of the season it is time to see what you have in prospects.

    [/QUOTE]

    Bingo.  Took the word right out of my keyboard.  The moves are fine by me.  I'm waiting to see what happens this winter.  We'll have a clearer idea of what the FO wants to do with this team going forward the next 2-3 years. Right now, I'm watching the rookies and the prospects take advantage of 2 months of playing time in the bigs.  Farrell has to really keep a fire burning in them about "it's your time now, guys."

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: Anyone Else Loving Today's Moves?

    In response to RigatoniT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Price allows Detroit to let Max Scherzer walk..... so both he and Lester will be on the market this winter.

    [/QUOTE]

    Either gets to Play-offs and Pitches lights out, never mind if Lester gets to WS, and wins.

    CHAAAAACHINGGGGGG!!!!!

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from fishers5. Show fishers5's posts

    Re: Anyone Else Loving Today's Moves?

    Looking at it, the sox offense sucked and getting power was going to be costly.  Actually the of defense in improved with replacing Gomes and whoever was in RF. The smiling Hawaiian (should be smiling as he is getting paid for not playing) is good but almost never plays.  So enjoy the new faces.  The team can handle the shortage of power in CF until Jbj figures it out and I think he will.

    Now we will see how good the Prospects are (some here have said can't trade this guy or that guy because of his upside etc ) May be time for the prospect s to step up.

    when your team sucks, changes have to be made.

    why are BoSox fans so emotional??   It's just a game.  LOL


    Always Right.....at least in my mind

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Anyone Else Loving Today's Moves?

    Whether or not we like the moves they made is beside the issue.   We instead should be asking how we like what the front office has done THIS YEAR.  These moves were necessitated by their botching the Lester deal in ST.  Now they've addressed the problem of the team's lack of offense by creating a new and harder to fix problem.. lack of pitching. And there's still the issue that the left side of the IF sucks defensively.

    Any owners who sign previously suspended PED abusers to a big $$ contract are as guilty of perpetuating the PED problem as are the players.

    And I have never posted here under any other names.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from sycophant123. Show sycophant123's posts

    Re: Anyone Else Loving Today's Moves?

    In response to S5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Whether or not we like the moves they made is beside the issue.   We instead should be asking how we like what the front office has done THIS YEAR.  These moves were necessitated by their botching the Lester deal in ST.  Now they've addressed the problem of the team's lack of offense by creating a new and harder to fix problem.. lack of pitching. And there's still the issue that the left side of the IF sucks defensively.

    Any owners who sign previously suspended PED abusers to a big $$ contract are as guilty of perpetuating the PED problem as are the players.

    And I have never posted here under any other names.

    [/QUOTE]


    We should only be judging the front office "this year" if we have no sense of history or the ability to think about future consequences of fiscal decisions made in the present.

     

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Anyone Else Loving Today's Moves?

    In response to sycophant123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to S5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Whether or not we like the moves they made is beside the issue.   We instead should be asking how we like what the front office has done THIS YEAR.  These moves were necessitated by their botching the Lester deal in ST.  Now they've addressed the problem of the team's lack of offense by creating a new and harder to fix problem.. lack of pitching. And there's still the issue that the left side of the IF sucks defensively.

    Any owners who sign previously suspended PED abusers to a big $$ contract are as guilty of perpetuating the PED problem as are the players.

    And I have never posted here under any other names.

    [/QUOTE]


    We should only be judging the front office "this year" if we have no sense of history or the ability to think about future consequences of fiscal decisions made in the present.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    This sounds a lot to me like, "In Ben we trust".  

    Well, I like the idea of that too. but HISTORY as taught us that you don't win championships without first quality pitching - of which the Sox have none of at this point. 

    The biggest "fiscal decision" the Sox have made in several years was their decision to low-ball Lester in Spring Training.  I'm firmly of the belief that he could have been had for ~5/$110 at that point but instead they FO decided to abuse what they saw as his willingness to be reasonable.  Now they're going to have to pay 6/$140+ to get him - if they can get him at all.  

    Everything else fell after that. 

    Everything that happened strikes me as someone (SOMEONE??) in the FO taking the attitude of, "These guys can't win?? FINE!  Trade the whole of them for whatever we can get.  We'll show them!!  And we'll worry about tomorrow, tomorrow."  

    [object HTMLDivElement]

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from sycophant123. Show sycophant123's posts

    Re: Anyone Else Loving Today's Moves?

    In response to S5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to sycophant123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to S5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Whether or not we like the moves they made is beside the issue.   We instead should be asking how we like what the front office has done THIS YEAR.  These moves were necessitated by their botching the Lester deal in ST.  Now they've addressed the problem of the team's lack of offense by creating a new and harder to fix problem.. lack of pitching. And there's still the issue that the left side of the IF sucks defensively.

    Any owners who sign previously suspended PED abusers to a big $$ contract are as guilty of perpetuating the PED problem as are the players.

    And I have never posted here under any other names.

    [/QUOTE]


    We should only be judging the front office "this year" if we have no sense of history or the ability to think about future consequences of fiscal decisions made in the present.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    This sounds a lot to me like, "In Ben we trust".  

    Well, I like the idea of that too. but HISTORY as taught us that you don't win championships without first quality pitching - of which the Sox have none of at this point. 

    The biggest "fiscal decision" the Sox have made in several years was their decision to low-ball Lester in Spring Training.  I'm firmly of the belief that he could have been had for ~5/$110 at that point but instead they FO decided to abuse what they saw as his willingness to be reasonable.  Now they're going to have to pay 6/$140+ to get him - if they can get him at all.  

    Everything else fell after that. 

    Everything that happened strikes me as someone (SOMEONE??) in the FO taking the attitude of, "These guys can't win?? FINE!  Trade the whole of them for whatever we can get.  We'll show them!!  And we'll worry about tomorrow, tomorrow."  

    [object HTMLDivElement]

    [/QUOTE]


    Does it?  Because my statement had nothing to do with Cherington, or the Red Sox F.O. 

    Just taking a long view instead of panicking in the moment. People that try to manage in the moment always fail.

    If the Red Sox are this bad mid season next year? Sure start freaking out. To freak out 7 months after as WS championship? Glad I don't work for you.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Anyone Else Loving Today's Moves?

    In response to S5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Whether or not we like the moves they made is beside the issue.   We instead should be asking how we like what the front office has done THIS YEAR.  These moves were necessitated by their botching the Lester deal in ST.  Now they've addressed the problem of the team's lack of offense by creating a new and harder to fix problem.. lack of pitching. And there's still the issue that the left side of the IF sucks defensively.

    Any owners who sign previously suspended PED abusers to a big $$ contract are as guilty of perpetuating the PED problem as are the players.

    And I have never posted here under any other names.

    [/QUOTE]


    This ^^

    Wake me when the Sox do something about their shell of a rotation.

    Yesterday, I was disgusted. Today, I'm just disappointed.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BogieAt12oclock. Show BogieAt12oclock's posts

    Re: Anyone Else Loving Today's Moves?

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to S5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Whether or not we like the moves they made is beside the issue.   We instead should be asking how we like what the front office has done THIS YEAR.  These moves were necessitated by their botching the Lester deal in ST.  Now they've addressed the problem of the team's lack of offense by creating a new and harder to fix problem.. lack of pitching. And there's still the issue that the left side of the IF sucks defensively.

    Any owners who sign previously suspended PED abusers to a big $$ contract are as guilty of perpetuating the PED problem as are the players.

    And I have never posted here under any other names.

    [/QUOTE]


    This ^^

    Wake me when the Sox do something about their shell of a rotation.

    Yesterday, I was disgusted. Today, I'm just disappointed.

    [/QUOTE]

    Well, if yesterday made you disgusted and disappointed, than that makes me even happier about those trades.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from sycophant123. Show sycophant123's posts

    Re: Anyone Else Loving Today's Moves?

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to S5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Whether or not we like the moves they made is beside the issue.   We instead should be asking how we like what the front office has done THIS YEAR.  These moves were necessitated by their botching the Lester deal in ST.  Now they've addressed the problem of the team's lack of offense by creating a new and harder to fix problem.. lack of pitching. And there's still the issue that the left side of the IF sucks defensively.

    Any owners who sign previously suspended PED abusers to a big $$ contract are as guilty of perpetuating the PED problem as are the players.

    And I have never posted here under any other names.

    [/QUOTE]


    This ^^

    Wake me when the Sox do something about their shell of a rotation.

    Yesterday, I was disgusted. Today, I'm just disappointed.

    [/QUOTE]

    Sure then, go take a nap while the Red Sox evaluate their young arms the rest of the year, then come back when they sign a few free agents.

    Sounds like a plan.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Anyone Else Loving Today's Moves?

    In response to sycophant123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to S5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Whether or not we like the moves they made is beside the issue.   We instead should be asking how we like what the front office has done THIS YEAR.  These moves were necessitated by their botching the Lester deal in ST.  Now they've addressed the problem of the team's lack of offense by creating a new and harder to fix problem.. lack of pitching. And there's still the issue that the left side of the IF sucks defensively.

    Any owners who sign previously suspended PED abusers to a big $$ contract are as guilty of perpetuating the PED problem as are the players.

    And I have never posted here under any other names.

    [/QUOTE]


    This ^^

    Wake me when the Sox do something about their shell of a rotation.

    Yesterday, I was disgusted. Today, I'm just disappointed.

    [/QUOTE]

    Sure then, go take a nap while the Red Sox evaluate their young arms the rest of the year, then come back when they sign a few free agents.

    Sounds like a plan.

    [/QUOTE]

    Name one TOTR free agent that going to sign with the Sox for three years, or less.

    Sure, one of our young pitchers might emerge an excellent #1 or 2.

    The Sox are going to need more than that.

    So, excuse me if I'm not as easily impressed as you are.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Anyone Else Loving Today's Moves?

    In response to sycophant123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to S5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to sycophant123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to S5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Whether or not we like the moves they made is beside the issue.   We instead should be asking how we like what the front office has done THIS YEAR.  These moves were necessitated by their botching the Lester deal in ST.  Now they've addressed the problem of the team's lack of offense by creating a new and harder to fix problem.. lack of pitching. And there's still the issue that the left side of the IF sucks defensively.

    Any owners who sign previously suspended PED abusers to a big $$ contract are as guilty of perpetuating the PED problem as are the players.

    And I have never posted here under any other names.

    [/QUOTE]


    We should only be judging the front office "this year" if we have no sense of history or the ability to think about future consequences of fiscal decisions made in the present.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    This sounds a lot to me like, "In Ben we trust".  

    Well, I like the idea of that too. but HISTORY as taught us that you don't win championships without first quality pitching - of which the Sox have none of at this point. 

    The biggest "fiscal decision" the Sox have made in several years was their decision to low-ball Lester in Spring Training.  I'm firmly of the belief that he could have been had for ~5/$110 at that point but instead they FO decided to abuse what they saw as his willingness to be reasonable.  Now they're going to have to pay 6/$140+ to get him - if they can get him at all.  

    Everything else fell after that. 

    Everything that happened strikes me as someone (SOMEONE??) in the FO taking the attitude of, "These guys can't win?? FINE!  Trade the whole of them for whatever we can get.  We'll show them!!  And we'll worry about tomorrow, tomorrow."  

    [object HTMLDivElement]

    [/QUOTE]


    Does it?  Because my statement had nothing to do with Cherington, or the Red Sox F.O. 

    Just taking a long view instead of panicking in the moment. People that try to manage in the moment always fail.

    If the Red Sox are this bad mid season next year? Sure start freaking out. To freak out 7 months after as WS championship? Glad I don't work for you.

    [/QUOTE]

    First of all, you probably wouldn't work for me.  I'd see to that.  

    I'm not the one panicking.  The FO did that by selling off all of their pitching. 

    You can carry all the water you want for the FO.  The fact is, they blew it.  They blew it not only for this year (which is no great loss anyway at this point) but they blew it for next year and probably 2016 also.  It's going to take more than one year OR more money than they seem willing to spend to replace two solid starters.  

    The team through a five year period when the Sox acquired the best pitcher available every year (Schilling, Beckett, Clement, Dice-K, and Lackey)and those who worked out - along with Lester, Buchholz and Papelbon -  formed the backbone of the pitching staff.  That was a five year plan to rebuild the pitching staff and they're not going to rebuild it all at once.

    Losing both Lester and Lackey will have the same negative affect as the positive affect would be if they picked up both of them in the same year, and that ain't pretty. 

    [object HTMLDivElement]

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Anyone Else Loving Today's Moves?

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Lester was gone anyway.. Cespedes in return is great.

     

    I didn't like Gomes, so amen he's gone.

     

    Lackey would've been nice to keep, but getting Craig back is nice.

     

    Stephen Drew gone = yes. Boegy back to SS.

     

     

     

    The offensive lineup next season looks very nice, still need a CF

     

    and they need to pay some pitchers this offseason, big time

     

     

    [/QUOTE]This is a  B I N G O  !!!!   Not only with the bringing in of more offense, but it opens the doors to movement in our entire system .......Good job BEN  !!!


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BogieAt12oclock. Show BogieAt12oclock's posts

    Re: Anyone Else Loving Today's Moves?

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Lester was gone anyway.. Cespedes in return is great.

     

    I didn't like Gomes, so amen he's gone.

     

    Lackey would've been nice to keep, but getting Craig back is nice.

     

    Stephen Drew gone = yes. Boegy back to SS.

     

     

     

    The offensive lineup next season looks very nice, still need a CF

     

    and they need to pay some pitchers this offseason, big time

     

     

    [/QUOTE]This is a  B I N G O  !!!!   Not only with the bringing in of more offense, but it opens the doors to movement in our entire system .......Good job BEN  !!!


    [/QUOTE]

    Hey tidy bowl man, does Larry get any credit?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Anyone Else Loving Today's Moves?

    In response to CHUBBIE99's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to soxnewmex's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pitching was a strength before the moves, now it's a weakness.  We have no short stop (Xbo doesn't cut it as infielder let alone a SS), Middlebrooks will get playing time (that's a minus) and we have a rh power hitter in exchange.  Hard to celebrate going from a strong pitching staff to a weak one in exchange for a weakened defense and the addition of one power hitter.

    [/QUOTE]  thinking the same thing.


    [/QUOTE]

    For those that loved the starting pitching: how many Sox starters had a 2.1 ERA---none. The average number of runs scored by the Sox in roughly the last two weeks was 2.1 runs per game. They could go perhaps 10 and 44 for the remainder of the season--winning a game here or there when Lester or Lackey pitched.

    With that being said what if you signed Lester for $150 M and extended Lackey for 3 years @ $50 M. Is that a wise way to spend $200 M given the run production which wasn't changing?

    Today is new day--a new season is beginning--we have 54 games to see what this NEW team can do. I personally think they will make teams have to prepare a little differently. The Sox lineup has been extended and they won't be able to pitch around  Ortiz or Nap or Cespy or Craig.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from fishers5. Show fishers5's posts

    Re: Anyone Else Loving Today's Moves?

    With all the excellent prospects in the organization,  why are all the negative nellies worried about 2015 or 2016??

    all the fo has to do is give Lester 7 years@ 30 million (for a 14 or 15 game winner) 

      give Scherzer 7 years @ 30 million for a cy young award winner

      See how easy it is to get pitching


    Always Right.....at least in my mind

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: Anyone Else Loving Today's Moves?

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Lester was gone anyway.. Cespedes in return is great.

     

    I didn't like Gomes, so amen he's gone.

     

    Lackey would've been nice to keep, but getting Craig back is nice.

     

    Stephen Drew gone = yes. Boegy back to SS.

     

     

     

    The offensive lineup next season looks very nice, still need a CF

     

    and they need to pay some pitchers this offseason, big time

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Betts has been playing CF in Pawtucket. If people don't think that's significant, they haven't been paying attention.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Anyone Else Loving Today's Moves?

    Joe Kelly might surprise some of you.

    Hembree will probably be a force in the pen sooner than some of us might expect.

    Escobar and Rodriguez will probably not help in 2015, but they both have a decent shot at significantly impacting our long term future.

    We certainly need more firepower added to our rotation this winter. We cannot sign an ace without going large and long, so unless management changes their philosophy for one signing, I don't see us going very far in 2015. I see only Scherzer, Lester and Shields as pitchers who can be legitimately called an ace. Maybe there's somebody we can trade for, but I'm thinking we need our stockpile of prospects to make a serious run at Stanton (only if extended) or Tulo (only counts as $16M against the luxury tax budget).

    All eyes are on Ben & Co. this winter.

     

    Sox4ever

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Anyone Else Loving Today's Moves?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:


    Joe Kelly might surprise some of you.




    The guys over at fangraphs love this guy.  Say he has 3 above average offspeed pitches and of course throws 95.  The Cardinals were just having him throw so many sinkers trying to get grounders.  We need to unleash this guy.

     
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