Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?

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    Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?

    In Response to Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees? : What's more disrespectful?  Picking the 2010 AL East champs to miss the post-season or the 2010 wild-card team?  Are the Yankees any better today than they were in the second half of 2010?  If Garcia and Colon pitch the rest of the season with a combined 3.5 ERA, then the answer is yes, but history suggests that is unlikely.  Sabathia will be good and the rest of the rotation will be around 4.3, which means there are some stinkers on the horizon. I also think the Yankees have a tough schedule to close the year.  They have only 9 home games in August, and a west-coast swing in September, sandwiched in between an AL East battle royale.  There's no shame in being a .550 team, but I don't think it will be enough to get them into the post-season.
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    The difference is, TB, still a very good team, was decimated via free agent signings. And, I'll admit disrespect was the wrong term; underestimate is what I meant. Having said that, IMO the Yankess shall likely be the wild card team this yr, and that's no slight against TB, who regardless I'm guessing shall win plenty, despite the gauntlet known as the AL East. Even Toronto and Balt are no softties (No Pun intended, LOL). I don't believe any team, save Pha and possibly Minn (despite the start) are as good as these three.
     
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    Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?

    In Response to Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees? : What's more disrespectful?  Picking the 2010 AL East champs to miss the post-season or the 2010 wild-card team?  Are the Yankees any better today than they were in the second half of 2010?  If Garcia and Colon pitch the rest of the season with a combined 3.5 ERA, then the answer is yes, but history suggests that is unlikely.  Sabathia will be good and the rest of the rotation will be around 4.3, which means there are some stinkers on the horizon. I also think the Yankees have a tough schedule to close the year.  They have only 9 home games in August, and a west-coast swing in September, sandwiched in between an AL East battle royale.  There's no shame in being a .550 team, but I don't think it will be enough to get them into the post-season.

    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    Last I checked the Yanks haven't been a .550 team since '08. The red flops on the other hand were a .550 team last year. Wishful thinking on your part.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mfymfy. Show mfymfy's posts

    Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?

    Reds 10    Yankees 2

    Notice how close the Yankees come to catching the Sox, but they just can't do it.  Must drive you Yankee fans crazy.  Ho hum.   --soxmeister
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I think by now you--soxmeister and your pal slomag, for that matter-- would have expected Buch and Lester to be battling for the Cy Young award, Crawford at or near the top of the lineup running wild on the bases with a .320 avg, Jenks and Wheeler to have given you a shutdown bullpen, Dice and Lackey both headed for 16-18 win seasons, Pedey an MVP candidate, the Yanks well out of it with a rotation from hell, and the Sox ten games up in the AL East and pulling away.

    Well, last I looked, none of that has happened. The Sox rotation problems are still there from last year, the bullpen isn't near what the Sox hoped, and you have a black hole in your lineup after the first 5 guys. It's a battle for dominance as usual with the Yanks ( with 8 significant guys DL'd) and either team could be in first by tomorrow.  Now that must drive you absolutely nuts.
     
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    Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?

       slomag  ''  I also think the Yankees have a tough schedule to close the year. They have only 9 home games in August, and a west-coast swing in September, .  ''



    good thing the yanks have a better road record than home record


    don't you think slomag
      ?
     
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    Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?

    trade deadline approaching...big for yanks....foolish to sit back thinking Colon and Garcia are carrying you to the Series....no matter how they are playing right now...........NY better get some decent pitching.............Red Sox just need to tinker a little and play to their strengths
     
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    Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?

    Red Sox just need to tinker a little and play to their strengths --sday 4x4
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    The rotation, the bullpen, and the second half of the lineup is not what I'd call tinkering. The grounds crew appears solid, though.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?

    In Response to Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees? : The difference is, TB, still a very good team, was decimated via free agent signings. And, I'll admit disrespect was the wrong term; underestimate is what I meant. Having said that, IMO the Yankess shall likely be the wild card team this yr, and that's no slight against TB, who regardless I'm guessing shall win plenty, despite the gauntlet known as the AL East. Even Toronto and Balt are no softties (No Pun intended, LOL). I don't believe any team, save Pha and possibly Minn (despite the start) are as good as these three.
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

    A healthy Longoria is going to make a big difference in the Rays offensive production, and if Upton continues to struggle, Desmond Jennings is ready to take his place.  The Rays' strength is their starting pitching - Niemann is back and healthy, coming off a strong start.  If he's back on his game, or if Davis pitches like he did in 2010, that's a shut-down rotation.  On paper the Yankees and Rays are opposites, and I believe elite pitching with mediocre offense trumps elite offense with mediocre pitching.  

     
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    Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?

    In Response to Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees? : Last I checked the Yanks haven't been a .550 team since '08. The red flops on the other hand were a .550 team last year. Wishful thinking on your part.
    Posted by The-Babe---[/QUOTE]

    You should check again - check the Yankees record last year after Pettitte went down, because that's essentially what you're working with this year.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?

    In Response to Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?:
    [QUOTE]    slomag   ''  I also think the Yankees have a tough schedule to close the year. They have only 9 home games in August, and a west-coast swing in September, .  '' good thing the yanks have a better road record than home record don't you think slomag   ?
    Posted by pinstripezac32[/QUOTE]

    I wasn't referring to their performance on the road.  I think if you are Yankees, and fighting for a playoff berth in September, with 11 of your last 27 games against the Rays and Red Sox, 6000 miles of travel mixed in does not work in your favor.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?

    In Response to Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees? : A healthy Longoria is going to make a big difference in the Rays offensive production, and if Upton continues to struggle, Desmond Jennings is ready to take his place.  The Rays' strength is their starting pitching - Niemann is back and healthy, coming off a strong start.  If he's back on his game, or if Davis pitches like he did in 2010, that's a shut-down rotation.  On paper the Yankees and Rays are opposites, and I believe elite pitching with mediocre offense trumps elite offense with mediocre pitching.  
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    Perhaps, assuming the Rays have elite pitching; and FWIW, the Yankees, with injuries to 5 major pitchers, currently have a better Team ERA than the RS OR Rays, and over the RS by a bunch.

    In addition, in relation to the experts, you're in the minority opinion. Is your Yankee ax grinding a little? I think it is.
     
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    Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?

    In Response to Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees? : Perhaps, assuming the Rays have elite pitching; and FWIW, the Yankees, with injuries to 5 major pitchers, currently have a better Team ERA than the RS OR Rays, and over the RS by a bunch. In addition, in relation to the experts, you're in the minority opinion. Is your Yankee ax grinding a little? I think it is.
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

    How many experts picked Tampa Bay to win last year?  Obviously, if the Yankees continue to pitch the way they have been, they will contend for the AL East title, and will be a lock for the playoffs.  I just think they have been pitching over their heads.

    What's your honest opinion on the Yankee pitching?  Do you think they are as good as they have been to this point, or are they due for a fall?  What do you think Garcia's ERA will be at the end of the year?  Right now it's at 3.30.  He hasn't been under 4 since 2005, and his WHIP is higher than his career average.  Do you think he keeps his runs down all season?  Even if he finishes career average ERA (4.1) that means pitching to about a 5 ERA the rest of the way. 


     
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    Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?

    In Response to Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees? : How many experts picked Tampa Bay to win last year?  Obviously, if the Yankees continue to pitch the way they have been, they will contend for the AL East title, and will be a lock for the playoffs.  I just think they have been pitching over their heads. What's your honest opinion on the Yankee pitching?  Do you think they are as good as they have been to this point, or are they due for a fall?  What do you think Garcia's ERA will be at the end of the year?  Right now it's at 3.30.  He hasn't been under 4 since 2005, and his WHIP is higher than his career average.  Do you think he keeps his runs down all season?  Even if he finishes career average ERA (4.1) that means pitching to about a 5 ERA the rest of the way. 
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    LOL, pitching over their heads? In general, I've heard that before. Was your point about the Pettite-less Yankees pitching below, perhaps? And, haven't many RS fans extolled the virtues and beat their chest regarding the Sox outlook this yr as deemed by the experts? You can't have it both ways.

    As far as Garcia is concerned, you're making a lot of assumptions about the rest of his season; as he junkifies, he may be following a Jamie Moyer/Livian Hernandez career arc, IMO. It is clear he doesn't do well against elite lineups (ditto Burnett), vis-a-vis, the RS. And, if anything, Nova seems to be on the uptick, and Hughes and Colon are coming back; forget about those?  Burnett is doing better than I expected; he was one of those who stunk up the joint last Aug-Sep (i.e, perhaps below). All I said about the respective team ERAs was FWIW; on paper, the NYA need pitching, yes. And one irony; although the RS Team ERA is # 20 in MLB (TB is #11, the NYA #10, and #1 in the BP, at least as of a week ago), it has partly to do with Fenway, where the Home/Rd splits currently are 4.35/3.61. (This has been a largely consistent pattern for the last 100 yrs); Remember that debate? 
     
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    Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?

    In Response to Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees? : LOL, pitching over their heads? In general, I've heard that before. Was your point about the Pettite-less Yankees pitching below, perhaps? And, haven't many RS fans extolled the virtues and beat their chest regarding the Sox outlook this yr as deemed by the experts? You can't have it both ways. As far as Garcia is concerned, you're making a lot of assumptions about the rest of his season; as he junkifies , he may be following a Jamie Moyer/Livian Hernandez career arc, IMO. It is clear he doesn't do well against elite lineups (ditto Burnett), vis-a-vis, the RS. And, if anything, Nova seems to be on the uptick, and Hughes and Colon are coming back; forget about those?  Burnett is doing better than I expected; he was one of those who stunk up the joint last Aug-Sep (i.e, perhaps below ). All I said about the respective team ERAs was FWIW ; on paper, the NYA need pitching, yes. And one irony; although the RS Team ERA is # 20 in MLB (TB is #11, the NYA #10, and #1 in the BP, at least as of a week ago), it has partly to do with Fenway, where the Home/Rd splits currently are 4.35/3.61. (This has been a largely consistent pattern for the last 100 yrs); Remember that debate? 
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

    I think reality caught up to the Pettitte-less Yankees, just as it will this year.  Even Pettitte was pitching well beyond his career average, though his ERA was starting to climb when he went on the DL.  When you have guys like Pettitte and Garcia, nearing the end of their careers with thousands of innings by which to judge them, you know what to expect from them.  If they give you a significantly better performance then they are pitching over their heads IMO.  Look at Garcia's WHIP - how do you explain that it is slightly worse than his career average, but his ERA is almost a run lower?  That's just an anomoly waiting to correct itself.  If he gives you 160 innings with a 4.1 ERA, you should be ecstatic - it's really unfair to expect anything more.

    I expect Burnett will continue as he has performed thus far this season, because it is more consistent with his history than last year's performance.  Yes, I'd say he underperformed last year, and may even have had some injury issues that he was reluctant to disclose.

    I'm not sure if you or I should be more excited about Hughes coming back.  He has his velocity back, but he also gave up three hits and home run in 4 innings in low A ball.  He has not been even an average major-league pitcher in nearly a year.  Let's see how he does in his next rehab start.

    Nova and Colon are wild cards.  Nova is simply too young and has no history to be able to place expectations on him.  He could put together a nice string of games that make the difference between making the post-season or not.  Or he could fall apart and wind up back in Scranton before the season is through.  Chances are he's somewhere in the middle - about what he has given you thus far.

    With Colon anything is possible.  He could come back and be as good as he has been thus far.  He could come back and stink.  He could come back and suffer one injury after another.  He could never come back.  Or he could be banned for his secret "stem cell" injections in the Dominican Repbulic.  He's just a walking question mark.

    I think what the 'experts' predicted is that the Yankees could coast to the post-season on the strength of their offense.  I don't think anybody picked them to finish near the top in starters' ERA (maybe bullpen ERA).  And if pressed, most of those 'experts' picked the Rays to finish third, often only a handful of games behind the Yankees.  So my predictions, with all the question marks and wild-cards surrounding the Yankee rotation, are not that far from the main-stream.  That said, I think there is more baseball knowledge on this forum than in every SI article ever written, so I don't put a lot of stock in expert opinion.  





     
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    Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?

    In Response to Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees? : I think reality caught up to the Pettitte-less Yankees, just as it will this year.  Even Pettitte was pitching well beyond his career average, though his ERA was starting to climb when he went on the DL.  When you have guys like Pettitte and Garcia, nearing the end of their careers with thousands of innings by which to judge them, you know what to expect from them.  If they give you a significantly better performance then they are pitching over their heads IMO.  Look at Garcia's WHIP - how do you explain that it is slightly worse than his career average, but his ERA is almost a run lower?  That's just an anomoly waiting to correct itself.  If he gives you 160 innings with a 4.1 ERA, you should be ecstatic - it's really unfair to expect anything more. I expect Burnett will continue as he has performed thus far this season, because it is more consistent with his history than last year's performance.  Yes, I'd say he underperformed last year, and may even have had some injury issues that he was reluctant to disclose. I'm not sure if you or I should be more excited about Hughes coming back.  He has his velocity back, but he also gave up three hits and home run in 4 innings in low A ball.  He has not been even an average major-league pitcher in nearly a year.  Let's see how he does in his next rehab start. Nova and Colon are wild cards.  Nova is simply too young and has no history to be able to place expectations on him.  He could put together a nice string of games that make the difference between making the post-season or not.  Or he could fall apart and wind up back in Scranton before the season is through.  Chances are he's somewhere in the middle - about what he has given you thus far. With Colon anything is possible.  He could come back and be as good as he has been thus far.  He could come back and stink.  He could come back and suffer one injury after another.  He could never come back.  Or he could be banned for his secret "stem cell" injections in the Dominican Repbulic.  He's just a walking question mark. I think what the 'experts' predicted is that the Yankees could coast to the post-season on the strength of their offense.  I don't think anybody picked them to finish near the top in starters' ERA (maybe bullpen ERA).  And if pressed, most of those 'experts' picked the Rays to finish third, often only a handful of games behind the Yankees.  So my predictions, with all the question marks and wild-cards surrounding the Yankee rotation, are not that far from the main-stream.  That said, I think there is more baseball knowledge on this forum than in every SI article ever written, so I don't put a lot of stock in expert opinion.  
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    Really? That's saying something! Otherwise, I agree with most of this post. And, I'll stick to my guess (notice I didn't say prediction) on how this yr plays out; Yankees as the wild card, unless something funky happens in the AL Central or TB plays out of their minds. As far as Bos is concerned, as I said many times before, I'm going with 98-103 Wins.
     
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    Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?

    In Response to Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?:
    [QUOTE]Hell, no. I'm just worried about the umpires. :)
    Posted by kimsaysthis[/QUOTE]

    Ah, those biased, paid off umpires; the RS fan's mantra (or, at least a few of them). I'm amazed that there's been no rumors yet of umpires giving RS pitchers jacked up balls; how else to explain their team ERA being so much higher than the pitching starved Yankees?
     
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    Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?

    In Response to Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees? : Actually, I'm not sure it's just the RS fans. And, as I said in another post, I was told about a couple of umpires --- apparently, many years ago -- who were removed from the game for saying that they were told that having the Yankees in the playoffs was better for baseball. He was a brilliant man, and I'm sure that it can be proven to be true.
    Posted by kimsaysthis[/QUOTE]

    Perhaps; but I've also read similar conjecture about the RS @Fenway; in all cases, consider the source, if you will. However, in general, I prefer to give umpires the benefit of the doubt until concretely shown otherwise and not use it as an alibi for the rivalry; to each his own.
     
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    Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?

    In Response to Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees? : Perhaps; but I've also read similar conjecture about the RS @Fenway; in all cases, consider the source, if you will. However, in general, I prefer to give umpires the benefit of the doubt until concretely shown otherwise and not use it as an alibi for the rivalry; to each his own.
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

    If umpires were told to fix games so that a particular team or teams would make the playoffs that would have become public long before this. There are many true variables that decide who makes the playoffs. Talent, schedules and injuries (as we found out last season) are just a few of the variables that can potentially affect who makes the playoffs. If the Sox or the Yanks do not make the playoffs it will be due to something other than the umpires. Let's be realistic. This is baseball not some Oliver Stone conspiracy movie.
     
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    Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?

    I'm not worried about them because I think the Sox and Yanks both end up in the playoffs and as of right now may be the two best teams in the AL.  The other 12 teams (with the exception of maybe the Rays) have been closer to mediocre than good.
     
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    Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?

    In Response to Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?:
    [QUOTE]I'm not worried about them because I think the Sox and Yanks both end up in the playoffs and as of right now may be the two best teams in the AL.  The other 12 teams (with the exception of maybe the Rays) have been closer to mediocre than good.
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988[/QUOTE]

    Agreed.
     
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    Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?

    Agree with all of the recent posts above; BTW SPC, you seem to be kinder, gentler, and objective lately. Kudos. BTW, Minn (Who started out 14-31 I believe) may have something to say about this when all is said & done IMO.
     
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    Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?

    bp, I half to disagree with you respectfully,
    Posted by can-you-dig-it


    [QUOTE]the heat don't have the qualify players like the sox
    Posted by can-you-dig-it[/QUOTE]

    these posts, duh-duh  duh-duh-duh ... duh-duh  duh-duh-duh



     
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    Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?

    In Response to Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees? : Actually, I'm not sure it's just the RS fans. And, as I said in another post, I was told about a couple of umpires --- apparently, many years ago -- who were removed from the game for saying that they were told that having the Yankees in the playoffs was better for baseball. He was a brilliant man, and I'm sure that it can be proven to be true.

    Posted by kimsaysthis[/QUOTE]

    What a load of sh_t. Who told you this, george mitchell?

    And if you are sure it could be proven to be true, don't you think it would have been already?

     
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    Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?

    In Response to Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?:
    [QUOTE]Reds 10    Yankees 2 Notice how close the Yankees come to catching the Sox, but they just can't do it.  Must drive you Yankee fans crazy.  Ho hum.   --soxmeister -------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think by now you--soxmeister and your pal slomag, for that matter-- would have expected Buch and Lester to be battling for the Cy Young award, Crawford at or near the top of the lineup running wild on the bases with a .320 avg, Jenks and Wheeler to have given you a shutdown bullpen, Dice and Lackey both headed for 16-18 win seasons, Pedey an MVP candidate, the Yanks well out of it with a rotation from hell, and the Sox ten games up in the AL East and pulling away. Well, last I looked, none of that has happened. The Sox rotation problems are still there from last year, the bullpen isn't near what the Sox hoped, and you have a black hole in your lineup after the first 5 guys. It's a battle for dominance as usual with the Yanks ( with 8 significant guys DL'd) and either team could be in first by tomorrow.  Now that must drive you absolutely nuts.
    Posted by mfymfy[/QUOTE]

    All valid points ... except Lester, with a win tonight, has 10 wins ... and will be on track for the Cy if he gets his ERA down this summer. 

    But the point you miss is that your Yankees blew the lead.  The Sox start 2-10, and are now in first?  How did that happen?  Magic? 

    Sox have the best record in the AL now.  What do you say to that?  And this is with all those players you list above not having good seasons.

    You make a great case that the Sox have an outstanding team, I mean, all these players are not doing well, and yet we catch your team and are in first place?   Ouch.   
     
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    Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?

    In Response to Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone on Red Sox: On the front burner worried about the Yankees? : All valid points ... except Lester, with a win tonight, has 10 wins ... and will be on track for the Cy if he gets his ERA down this summer.  But the point you miss is that your Yankees blew the lead.  The Sox start 2-10, and are now in first?  How did that happen?  Magic?  Sox have the best record in the AL now.  What do you say to that?  And this is with all those players you list above not having good seasons. You make a great case that the Sox have an outstanding team, I mean, all these players are not doing well, and yet we catch your team and are in first place?   Ouch.   

    Posted by soxmeister[/QUOTE]

    Geez, there's probably 5 or 6 guys that this could be said about.

     

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