Anyone read or believe this note on Drew?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Anyone read or believe this note on Drew?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    http://nesn.com/2013/12/brian-butterfield-xander-bogaerts-will-be-a-shortstop-until-the-day-he-retires/

    It looks like Xander Bogaerts' infield coach disagrees with these scouting reports.  

     

    I have not seen enough of Bogey to have a strong opinion, but I was answering the claim by southpaw that all thos scouting reports were 2-3 years old.

    Honestly, I looked at the first 5-6 reports within a year from today on my google search, and all of them mentioned Bogey changing positions at some point in his career.

     

    As for the Sox infield coach, he may be afraid to weaken Bogey's confidence in his defense by telling what he really believes. I'm not saying he doesn't mean what he said, but would any good coach really say, "I don't think _______ will become a plus fielder, and maybe should start learning a different position sooner than later"?

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree that Butterfield isn't going to say anything to impede Bogaerts' confidence, but he didn't give the textbook answer, either.  Butterfield seems absolutely passionate about the kid sticking at SS.  He's not the only one, either.  I just don't think there are any guarantees that he will switch positions in the future, as some people seem to suggest...

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Anyone read or believe this note on Drew?

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    http://nesn.com/2013/12/brian-butterfield-xander-bogaerts-will-be-a-shortstop-until-the-day-he-retires/

    It looks like Xander Bogaerts' infield coach disagrees with these scouting reports.  

     

    I have not seen enough of Bogey to have a strong opinion, but I was answering the claim by southpaw that all thos scouting reports were 2-3 years old.

    Honestly, I looked at the first 5-6 reports within a year from today on my google search, and all of them mentioned Bogey changing positions at some point in his career.

     

    As for the Sox infield coach, he may be afraid to weaken Bogey's confidence in his defense by telling what he really believes. I'm not saying he doesn't mean what he said, but would any good coach really say, "I don't think _______ will become a plus fielder, and maybe should start learning a different position sooner than later"?

     



    I agree that Butterfield isn't going to say anything to impede Bogaerts' confidence, but he didn't give the textbook answer, either.  Butterfield seems absolutely passionate about the kid sticking at SS.  He's not the only one, either.  I just don't think there are any guarantees that he will switch positions in the future, as some people seem to suggest...

     




    Im also not saying that no other scouts have some concerns. My point was you can look at what someone said about him 3 years ago and read the same person this year and it will be a different assessment of Xander. The confidence in him at SS amongst scouts have improved over the last 3 years.

    I read all those reports myself 3 years ago. Hes obviously improved since he was 18. Some here act as if hes a liability at SS. Far from it. Hes a better SS right now than he is a 3b.

    Also I like listening to the Sox scouts/coaches a little more just because they are around him all the time. Not that I discount other teams scouts, but its obvious the Sox coaches/scouts know more about him and have watched his progression a lot closer than anyone else.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Anyone read or believe this note on Drew?

    In response to jasko2248's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    http://nesn.com/2013/12/brian-butterfield-xander-bogaerts-will-be-a-shortstop-until-the-day-he-retires/

    It looks like Xander Bogaerts' infield coach disagrees with these scouting reports.  

     

    I have not seen enough of Bogey to have a strong opinion, but I was answering the claim by southpaw that all thos scouting reports were 2-3 years old.

    Honestly, I looked at the first 5-6 reports within a year from today on my google search, and all of them mentioned Bogey changing positions at some point in his career.

     

    As for the Sox infield coach, he may be afraid to weaken Bogey's confidence in his defense by telling what he really believes. I'm not saying he doesn't mean what he said, but would any good coach really say, "I don't think _______ will become a plus fielder, and maybe should start learning a different position sooner than later"?

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree that Butterfield isn't going to say anything to impede Bogaerts' confidence, but he didn't give the textbook answer, either.  Butterfield seems absolutely passionate about the kid sticking at SS.  He's not the only one, either.  I just don't think there are any guarantees that he will switch positions in the future, as some people seem to suggest...

    [/QUOTE]

    Many good baseball people like the idea of having a great hitting SS. I agree that the comparative value of getting more offense from the SS position than  almost every other team we face is very significant.

    There is a strong chance Bogey never moves off the SS position. I have never said I think he will. I have said that if these reports are true about his limited fielding skills or his probability of body changes that may hamper his improvement on defense, then I would like to move him to 3B sooner rather than later. I am not an expert of Bogey's defense, but just because Sox management may decide to keep him at SS, does not mean he will surely become a plus defender there.

    I'm not doubting that Butterfield may think Bogey will become a plus defender, but my guess is, he knows that right now, Bogey is not a top 15 defesnive SS in MLB.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Anyone read or believe this note on Drew?

    Im also not saying that no other scouts have some concerns. My point was you can look at what someone said about him 3 years ago and read the same person this year and it will be a different assessment of Xander. The confidence in him at SS amongst scouts have improved over the last 3 years.

     

    I read all those reports myself 3 years ago. Hes obviously improved since he was 18. Some here act as if hes a liability at SS. Far from it. Hes a better SS right now than he is a 3b.

    Also I like listening to the Sox scouts/coaches a little more just because they are around him all the time. Not that I discount other teams scouts, but its obvious the Sox coaches/scouts know more about him and have watched his progression a lot closer than anyone else.

    I agree. The tone of scouting reports have scaled down the suggestion that Bogey will move to another position, but my point is that every recent report  I read still mentions him possibly changing positions. Maybe this is just out of some service to past impressions, but to me, when I read statements like this, I see it as code for saying they do not believe he is or will become a plus defender at SS, otrherwise, why mention any thoughts on the need to move him at some point in his career.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Anyone read or believe this note on Drew?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Im also not saying that no other scouts have some concerns. My point was you can look at what someone said about him 3 years ago and read the same person this year and it will be a different assessment of Xander. The confidence in him at SS amongst scouts have improved over the last 3 years.

     

    I read all those reports myself 3 years ago. Hes obviously improved since he was 18. Some here act as if hes a liability at SS. Far from it. Hes a better SS right now than he is a 3b.

    Also I like listening to the Sox scouts/coaches a little more just because they are around him all the time. Not that I discount other teams scouts, but its obvious the Sox coaches/scouts know more about him and have watched his progression a lot closer than anyone else.

    I agree. The tone of scouting reports have scaled down the suggestion that Bogey will move to another position, but my point is that every recent report  I read still mentions him possibly changing positions. Maybe this is just out of some service to past impressions, but to me, when I read statements like this, I see it as code for saying they do not believe he is or will become a plus defender at SS, otrherwise, why mention any thoughts on the need to move him at some point in his career.

    [/QUOTE]

    I disagree.

    How many of those scouting reports that mention the possibility Bogaerts moving off position mention in the same sentence "as his body fills out" or something like that?

    To me that indicates that they believe he will lose the range to play the position because of his size and weight.  He played last season at 20 years old so most would assume that he still has some filling out to do.  

    Also when projecting positions, scouts all to often try to project body types.  This at least to some extent has to do with a lot of scouts feel a move is inevitable.  Some larger guys just move better than others, and I think as he is growing he is maintaining his athleticism which is why a lot of scouts are more optimistic he will stick at the position. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Anyone read or believe this note on Drew?

    I disagree.

    How many of those scouting reports that mention the possibility Bogaerts moving off position mention in the same sentence "as his body fills out" or something like that?

    Look for yourself. I pasted the first 5 I found that were recent.

     

     soxprospects today:

    Plus arm.  Solid-average range, but may lose footspeed as he gets bigger.  Needs to slow the game down defensively and resist the feeling to rush plays. Inconsistent with footwork and staying down on the ball.  Choppy at times with his movements and reactions.Improvements in the field and physical development should allow Bogaerts to stick at shortstop for the outset of his big league career. If he needs to move off the position, has the tools to play either third base or left field...

     

    Adam Wells (August 2013)

    Will continue to develop as a shortstop unless he’s forced to move from position; also profiles as a third baseman or corner outfielder. Solid hands; plus arm strength; lacks quick feet and explosiveness for surefire up-the-middle future.

    Playing shortstop, even if it is just at a fringe-average level, gives Bogaerts tremendous value to the Red Sox because his bat is so good. Having an up-the-middle player who can hit 30 home runs—not this season or even next year, but eventually—is part of what makes Bogaerts so highly regarded.

    But even when Bogaerts is forced to move off shortstop, his bat is so good that there is no concern about his potential to be one of the 10 to 15 best hitters in the league and a perennial MVP candidate.

    The Scouting Book (2014)

    His weakness... some awkwardness in the field, especially with his footwork (he's young). There's really not anything to worry about here, though, other than the possibility he may bump Middlebrooks to first base one of these years. 

     

    Baseball America (June 2013)

    ...but his defense has improved to the point where he could spend the early part of his career at shortstop rather than having to move to third base immediately, although as he fills out his 6-foot-3 frame it might not be long before he outgrows the position. Wherever he plays, his bat has the potential to make him a star.

     

    Baseball Prospectus (August 2013)

    Two areas of Bogaerts’ game that still need work are his defense and strike zone judgment. As a shortstop, he’s made strides in improving his footwork and technique, and the reads off the bat have gotten better as well. The foot speed is only average, however, and further loss of speed into his mid-20s is going to decrease his average-to-slightly-better-than-average range. Given his athleticism, reactions, and instincts, a permanent move over to third base should agree well with Bogaerts, and he has potential to round into a plus defender at the hot corner.

     

    These are all pretty recent, and everyone I read mentioned changing positions at some point in his career.

    To me that indicates that they believe he will lose the range to play the position because of his size and weight.  He played last season at 20 years old so most would assume that he still has some filling out to do.  

    Also when projecting positions, scouts all to often try to project body types.  This at least to some extent has to do with a lot of scouts feel a move is inevitable.  Some larger guys just move better than others, and I think as he is growing he is maintaining his athleticism which is why a lot of scouts are more optimistic he will stick at the position. 

    Can you support that with any evidence4 that shows what "most scouts" think?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Anyone read or believe this note on Drew?

    I think it's even there in a lot of what you wrote....take what baseball america said for example.

     

    "although as he fills out his 6-foot-3 frame it might not be long before he outgrows the position"

    That sounds like they are talking about his size and athleticism, not his tools and skills. 

    Now what about baseball prosectus.

    "The foot speed is only average, however, and further loss of speed into his mid-20s is going to decrease his average-to-slightly-better-than-average range. Given his athleticism, reactions, and instincts, a permanent move over to third "

    The talk about losing speed as he goes into his mid 20's suggests the same thing that he will lose the athleticism to play the position.  

     

     

    I could keep on going here but the fundamental argument is the same.  WHY would he lose the ability to play defense as he gets OLDER? 

    is his cognitive ability going to change. Is he going to throw softer? is his footwork going to change?

    WHY would he be less of a defender?

    The answer is simple, it's because he is going to lose a step, and his range will decrease.  That is an assumption that is made because it is largely true that a larger athlete is slower.  I know this, and I've been a competitive athlete my whole life.  Some athletes maintain weight gain and a size increase much better than others.  Bogaerts as he has begun to fill out has maintained his athleticism.

    This doesn't mean that a switch still isn't inevitable one day.  I just reiterating my original point that scouts are assuming his athleticism will decrease when his body fills out. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Anyone read or believe this note on Drew?

    also note, that they are saying he will lose range, saying that right now his range is slightly above average.  

    If you can be average to above average at your position and have one of the best bats in the league....you aren't going to move (or at least shouldn't)

    You can't put a GG defender at every position, is not having an above average defender good enough?

    again this is all based on the premise of making assumptions and projections.  NO ONE knows where Bogaerts will be in 10 years from now.  But there is a growing consensus that he has the tools to at least be an average to slightly above average defender now.

    again...why would that change? when do most SS begin to lose their step.  Is he going to not be in his prime in his late 20's???? 

    even if he loses a step by the time he is 30 that is in 9 years from now, and for all we know we could lose him to free agency by then (I hope not). 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Anyone read or believe this note on Drew?

    A better question might be: in 5-10 years from now, if Bogey loses a step or two should he move to 3rd base?

    In that time frame we might have an all star caliber GG already playing at 3B, and Bogaerts might still be an average defender at SS with no one in the minors behind him, should he move then?

    We could have zero options at third with the second coming Derek Jeter waiting in Pawtucket...at that point It's a no brainer.

    Reality is, we don't know what will happen down the line, but for right now.....he's a short stop. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Anyone read or believe this note on Drew?

    also note, that they are saying he will lose range, saying that right now his range is slightly above average.  

    I'm not reading that too often.

     

    If you can be average to above average at your position and have one of the best bats in the league....you aren't going to move (or at least shouldn't)

    I agree, unless we have a better fielding SS who adds more value that whever we'd have at 3B instead of Bogey.

     

    You can't put a GG defender at every position, is not having an above average defender good enough?

    Yes, of course. I'm not sure Bogey will be abover average (14th or higher out of the 30 ML starting SSs within 2-3 years. He certainly is not top 20 right now. (IMO)

     

    again this is all based on the premise of making assumptions and projections.  NO ONE knows where Bogaerts will be in 10 years from now.  But there is a growing consensus that he has the tools to at least be an average to slightly above average defender now.

    Yes, I agree, but I am pretty certain that Drew will be a better fielder over the next 1-2 years. This is where this conversation started. The questions are:

    1) Will the plus we gain at SS defense outweigh the possible loss of offense between Middy/Cecchini at 3B vs Drew at SS?

    2) Is the cost of Drew's contract and the lost comp pick worth any gain we might get from signing him?

    3) Is the comparative offensive value of Bogey at SS worth that much more than his comparative offensive value at 3B?

    None of these are easy to answer, especially sincer much of the answers are based on projections.

     

    again...why would that change? when do most SS begin to lose their step.  Is he going to not be in his prime in his late 20's???? 

    I am nearly certain that Bogey is not above average on defense now. (Above average means top 12-14 at worst) I probably value defense at SS more than most here.

     

    even if he loses a step by the time he is 30 that is in 9 years from now, and for all we know we could lose him to free agency by then (I hope not). 

    Part of my belief that Bogey would be better at 3B is based on my belief that we can win in 2014 and need plus defense at SS to improve those odds, and my serious doubts about Middy this year.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: Anyone read or believe this note on Drew?

    When do you have to get below 189 million, before Luxury Tax kicks in?

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Anyone read or believe this note on Drew?

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    A better question might be: in 5-10 years from now, if Bogey loses a step or two should he move to 3rd base?

    In that time frame we might have an all star caliber GG already playing at 3B, and Bogaerts might still be an average defender at SS with no one in the minors behind him, should he move then?

    We could have zero options at third with the second coming Derek Jeter waiting in Pawtucket...at that point It's a no brainer.

    Reality is, we don't know what will happen down the line, but for right now.....he's a short stop. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I am happy with Bogey at SS and Middy/Cecchini at 3B this year. 

    I prefer not to sign Drew.

    I would, however, rather have Drew than Dempster.

    If we had Drew (assuming a 1-2 year deal), I'd like Bogey at 3B in AAA to start the year, Middy getting a long look at 3B, and then the big decision being made at some point after Bogey gains the extra year of team control.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Anyone read or believe this note on Drew?

    In response to crazy-world-of-troybrown's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    When do you have to get below 189 million, before Luxury Tax kicks in?

    [/QUOTE]

    I believe they determine your final budget costs after the year has been played. Mid season trades can bring your costs up or down.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Anyone read or believe this note on Drew?

    Ok fair points...

    I suppose the real question should be will Drew Bogey be better than Bogey WMB.

    Keep in mind that Bogey never played 3B until a few innings last year. And while I'm confident he would eventually round out into a plus defender would he really be better defensively there than WMB who has been playing the position for the last several years?

    Also we don't know what Drew we will get next year.  He had his second best WAR year last year, and while I'd be more confident than not he could repeat I would not be surprised if he showed some kind of regression.  Also Drew is a good defender, but he's not a great defender.  So how much better would he really be than Drew?

    Of course WMB comes with questions as well....although I do think he has the capacity to get much better of the next couple years while Drew is likely not going to give us any more than has, plus he still might net a draft pick.

    Honestly, I think at this point, all things considered it may be a wash. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Anyone read or believe this note on Drew?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    A better question might be: in 5-10 years from now, if Bogey loses a step or two should he move to 3rd base?

    In that time frame we might have an all star caliber GG already playing at 3B, and Bogaerts might still be an average defender at SS with no one in the minors behind him, should he move then?

    We could have zero options at third with the second coming Derek Jeter waiting in Pawtucket...at that point It's a no brainer.

    Reality is, we don't know what will happen down the line, but for right now.....he's a short stop. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I am happy with Bogey at SS and Middy/Cecchini at 3B this year. 

    I prefer not to sign Drew.

    I would, however, rather have Drew than Dempster.

    If we had Drew (assuming a 1-2 year deal), I'd like Bogey at 3B in AAA to start the year, Middy getting a long look at 3B, and then the big decision being made at some point after Bogey gains the extra year of team control.

    [/QUOTE]

    While I don't exactly agree with starting Bogey in triple A one good thing about this plan would be if WMB looks like a stud at 3B and Drew is healthy the team could probably get better value for Drew in a trade than they might get in the draft next year, and then bringing Bogey up and going with those two on the left side is a no brainer. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: Anyone read or believe this note on Drew?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to crazy-world-of-troybrown's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    When do you have to get below 189 million, before Luxury Tax kicks in?

    [/QUOTE]

    I believe they determine your final budget costs after the year has been played. Mid season trades can bring your costs up or down.

    [/QUOTE]

    Thank you, makes a big difference. Sox can sign him and just make a roster move. Gives them time to Trade a Pitcher. You know some Pitcher on a Roster will be hurt. Sox then could get value for one of their starters.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: Anyone read or believe this note on Drew?

    2 things I think, the Buchholz situation has me thinking Ben is leary of getting rid of Starters at this point. Number 2 you dont want to wait too long in getting an Infield ready. I really think something happens before Spring Training starts with Drew.
    From projected Mocks I've seen there is some good young potential at his spot, if he signs somewhere else.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from 808soxfan. Show 808soxfan's posts

    Re: Anyone read or believe this note on Drew?

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    A better question might be: in 5-10 years from now, if Bogey loses a step or two should he move to 3rd base?

    In that time frame we might have an all star caliber GG already playing at 3B, and Bogaerts might still be an average defender at SS with no one in the minors behind him, should he move then?

    We could have zero options at third with the second coming Derek Jeter waiting in Pawtucket...at that point It's a no brainer.

    Reality is, we don't know what will happen down the line, but for right now.....he's a short stop. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I am happy with Bogey at SS and Middy/Cecchini at 3B this year. 

    I prefer not to sign Drew.

    I would, however, rather have Drew than Dempster.

    If we had Drew (assuming a 1-2 year deal), I'd like Bogey at 3B in AAA to start the year, Middy getting a long look at 3B, and then the big decision being made at some point after Bogey gains the extra year of team control.

    [/QUOTE]

    While I don't exactly agree with starting Bogey in triple A one good thing about this plan would be if WMB looks like a stud at 3B and Drew is healthy the team could probably get better value for Drew in a trade than they might get in the draft next year, and then bringing Bogey up and going with those two on the left side is a no brainer. 

    [/QUOTE]

    +1

    I do not favor signing Drew, but I can see the RS wanting to extend Bogaerts for another year by starting him in AAA. RS could sign Drew for 2 years at $11M per year. Play him and Middy. If Middy works out and one of our pitching prospects works out, trade Drew plus Dempster/Peavy at the trade deadline for a decent upgrade somewhere or a high prospect. 

    RS signing Drew and trading him does him a favor because the trade obviously doesn't cost the other team a draft pick.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Anyone read or believe this note on Drew?

    exactly,  I prefer to not sign Drew and net the pick but I'm not going to turn into one of these cyncial posters who come in here and bash the Sox as if they aren't fans....I will see the positive side of the move. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Anyone read or believe this note on Drew?

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ok fair points...

    I suppose the real question should be will Drew Bogey be better than Bogey WMB.

    Keep in mind that Bogey never played 3B until a few innings last year. And while I'm confident he would eventually round out into a plus defender would he really be better defensively there than WMB who has been playing the position for the last several years?

    I think Bogey is already a better fielding 3Bman than the 2013 defensive Middy but not the 2012 one.

    I think the better SS defense outweighs worse 3B defense.

    It is close, I admit. That is one reason why I am not for signing Drew.

    Also we don't know what Drew we will get next year.  He had his second best WAR year last year, and while I'd be more confident than not he could repeat I would not be surprised if he showed some kind of regression.  Also Drew is a good defender, but he's not a great defender.  So how much better would he really be than Drew?

    I think, right now, Drew is much better on D.

    Of course WMB comes with questions as well....although I do think he has the capacity to get much better of the next couple years while Drew is likely not going to give us any more than has, plus he still might net a draft pick.

    Could be.

    Honestly, I think at this point, all things considered it may be a wash. 

    I'd like Drew-Middy then Drew Bogey a little better than Bogey-Middy, but not enough to pay what Drew will get. The loss of the draft pick makes it even clearer: do not sign Drew.

    I fell like just because I have said, I'd rather have Drew than Dempster, I feel like you guys think I want Drew or that I think Bogey is a bad fielder. I don't think either, but I do beleive Drew is a better fielding SS right now, and that Bogey can become a better fileder at 3B than Middy in a very short time.

    I am basing this on conjecture. I do not knwo enough about Bogey's defense to be sure about anything. I do not know which Middy will show up this year. I do not know if drew will be as good as last year, but his projection seems easier to trust in.




     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Anyone read or believe this note on Drew?

    In response to crazy-world-of-troybrown's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to crazy-world-of-troybrown's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    When do you have to get below 189 million, before Luxury Tax kicks in?

    [/QUOTE]

    I believe they determine your final budget costs after the year has been played. Mid season trades can bring your costs up or down.

    [/QUOTE]

    Thank you, makes a big difference. Sox can sign him and just make a roster move. Gives them time to Trade a Pitcher. You know some Pitcher on a Roster will be hurt. Sox then could get value for one of their starters.

    [/QUOTE]

    True, but the longer you wait to trade a guy like Dempster, the less cost saving you gain.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Anyone read or believe this note on Drew?

    Ok, so I think we actually mostly agree.  I'm perhaps a bit more optimistic on the Bogey/WMB combination although I kinda think you may be in the long run as well.

    correct me if I'm wrong but you are putting more stock in Drews track record, which inherently is the correct thing to do I suppose, seeing how he does have a MLB track record and the the other two don't have that yet. 

    In a perfect fantasy world Drew would net us a pick, who we use to draft a pitcher, who becomes the next Clayton Kershaw, Bogaerts turns into a MVP candidate at SS, and WMB rounds out into an above average defender at third who hits enough to keep his OBP above .315 but belts 30+ HR's every year. 

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Anyone read or believe this note on Drew?

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ok, so I think we actually mostly agree.  I'm perhaps a bit more optimistic on the Bogey/WMB combination although I kinda think you may be in the long run as well.

    correct me if I'm wrong but you are putting more stock in Drews track record, which inherently is the correct thing to do I suppose, seeing how he does have a MLB track record and the the other two don't have that yet. 

    In a perfect fantasy world Drew would net us a pick, who we use to draft a pitcher, who becomes the next Clayton Kershaw, Bogaerts turns into a MVP candidate at SS, and WMB rounds out into an above average defender at third who hits enough to keep his OBP above .315 but belts 30+ HR's every year. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Now, that I can agree on!

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Anyone read or believe this note on Drew?

    Maybe I've been reading Hill's posts too much, but I feel very skeptical about WMB lately.  I think he may very well be the next Mark Reynolds. 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Anyone read or believe this note on Drew?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    Maybe I've been reading Hill's posts too much, but I feel very skeptical about WMB lately.  I think he may very well be the next Mark Reynolds. 




    It makes sense to be skeptical about Middlebrooks right now, but I'm not sure I see a Mark Reynolds comp (if we're talking about pre-2013 Reynolds) as cause for disappointment.

    I've compared Middlebrooks to Mark Trumbo a couple of times this winter, and it's very easy to see him having a Trumbo-type season in 2014. That may not be exciting to the OBP-obsessed among us, but then again, the Angels got a couple of pretty decent young pitchers for Trumbo this winter. Power is in high demand right now, even if it comes with a crappy OBP and a ton of strikeouts...good reason not to give up on Will just yet.

     
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