Anyone Untouchable?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnnyLefty. Show JohnnyLefty's posts

    Anyone Untouchable?

    Does this team right now honestly have anyone that is "untouchable." (in regards to trades) Now in reality there is probably no player in Baseball that is "untouchable" because I'm sure if the Tigers offered Fielder, Cabrera, and Verlander and pay all their salaries for Felix Hernandez the Mariners would say yes in a heart beat. However that would never happen in a million years. So in reality do the Red Sox have any players that are "untouchable?" Here are some examples of players I think on other teams that are untouchable:

    Mike Trout - Angels
    Jared Weaver - Angels
    Justin Verlander - Tigers
    Felix Hernandez - Mariners
    Clayton Kershaw - Dodgers
    Matt Kemp - Dodgers
    Robinson Cano - Yankees
    Giancarlo Stanton - Marlins
    Joey Votto - Reds
    Carlos Gonzalez - Rockies
    Buster Posey - Giants
    Matt Cain - Giants
    Bryce Harper - Nationals
    Stephan Strasburge - Nationals
    Gio Gonzalez - Nationals
    Evan Longoria - Rays
    Andruw Mccutchen - Pirates

    Here is a list of a lot of players that for the most probably can not be had in a trade. Do the Red Sox have ANY of those types of players? The only 2 that come to my mind are Middlebrooks and Pedroia but really are they untouchable? I don't think so. Especially not Middlebrooks because he maybe the exact type of player we need to give up in order to get a big time pitcher. So do the Red Sox have any "untouchables?"

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Modano9009. Show Modano9009's posts

    Re: Anyone Untouchable?

    Agreed on Middlebrooks and Pedroia.

    I'm on the fence with Ellsbury. I don't hate the guy, but he's had injury problems and his contract could cost way more than he's worth. That's been debated to death around here so I'll leave it at that, but productive healthy Ellsbury under a reasonable contract would be an untouchable.


    I wouldn't move Buchholz. I don't know if he's ever going to develop into the ace he was predicted (by some) to be, but he's become a reliable starter. He just goes out and pitches, doesn't seem to be any drama surrounding him.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Anyone Untouchable?

    According to one midseason analysis, 16 players have more trade value than Felix Hernandez:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/2012-trade-value-20-16/

    ... but the Red Sox have only Dustin Pedroia at No. 34 among the Top 50 trade values:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/2012-trade-value-35-31/

    In the unliklely event Seattle make Felix Hernandez available, the Mariners would probably seek a hitter with comparable trade value. However, chances are the Mariners will retain Hernandez as their young team matures.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnnyLefty. Show JohnnyLefty's posts

    Re: Anyone Untouchable?

    In response to hill55's comment:

     

    According to one midseason analysis, 16 players have more trade value than Felix Hernandez:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/2012-trade-value-20-16/

    ... but the Red Sox have only Dustin Pedroia at No. 34 among the Top 50 trade values:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/2012-trade-value-35-31/

    In the unliklely event Seattle make Felix Hernandez available, the Mariners would probably seek a hitter with comparable trade value. However, chances are the Mariners will retain Hernandez as their young team matures.

     




    This isn't a thread saying could be acquire Felix Hernandez, this is a thread asking if someone called up and said we'll give you Players X Y AND Z for Pedroia do the Red Sox hang up and say sorry he's not available?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Anyone Untouchable?

    In response to JohnnyLefty's comment:

    This isn't a thread saying could be acquire Felix Hernandez, this is a thread asking if someone called up and said we'll give you Players X Y AND Z for Pedroia do the Red Sox hang up and say sorry he's not available?

    Every player in baseball -- including Mike Trout -- is available in trade for the right package.

    As a negotiating ploy, the Red Sox might respond to that initial inquiry by claiming Dustin Pedroia is not available, but the front office on the other end knows better.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Anyone Untouchable?

    I think that list needs to be salary adjusted.

    For example, I'd much rather have Bumgardner than Cain if I were SF.  Similar talent and almost $20M difference in salary.  Anyone that is near market can be replaced.

    On the RS, technically no one, though I'd have a hard time trading Pedey or Buchholz.

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Anyone Untouchable?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    I think that list needs to be salary adjusted.

    For example, I'd much rather have Bumgardner than Cain if I were SF.  Similar talent and almost $20M difference in salary.  Anyone that is near market can be replaced.

    On the RS, technically no one, though I'd have a hard time trading Pedey or Buchholz.


    The salary-adjusted list has Madison Bumgarner at No. 19 and Matt Cain at No. 48.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/2012-trade-value-50-46/

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from charliedarling. Show charliedarling's posts

    Re: Anyone Untouchable?

    The Sox will not trade their better players just for the sake of making a trade, bu tprobably no player can be labeled "untouchable" when you are a last place team and want to make a quick turnaround.

    They have to think about building the 2013 team around some of their better and younger veterans.  The guys that they decide not to trade all need to have something beyond statistics because the recovery from this terrible season is going to take a lot of work.  Ross, Pedroia, Lester, Buchholz and some others seem to fit for what needs to be done.

    The confidence and trust factors that are needed in a good organization have been missing all year from the owner down to probably the bat boy and the ball girls on the foul lines.

    I have been totally disappointed in Henry and Lucchino as I feel that wininng was just not as important to them this year.  Some of the things that they have said and done have been crazy.  Probably the most frustrating thing was not dumping Valentine in mid season when there was a chance to possibly make a difference THIS year.

    Trust went out the window with these guys with the way they treated Francona when they fired him.  It was their perogative to fire the guy, but how they did it set the tone for this season.  Hiring Valentine was not the end of the world, but keeping him past mid season certainly was when it was completely apparent that he was not the guy for the job.  Henry criticizing the signing of Crawford was terrible because he is the guy who signs those big checks.

    Valentine lost his entire clubhouse when he ripped Youkilis in public, and the season has been downhill since that day.  He has continued to rip other players and has said various things to hurt the team all season long.  The guy just cannot shut his big mouth, and those who want him back for next year cannot expect him to be any different in 2013.

    Francona may have had his weaknesses and I yelled at the TV set many times when he was managing, but except for the last month of 2011 his players played for him.  I can fully understand why the players have not played for Valentine, and the manager is VERY important in a team setting.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Anyone Untouchable?

    In response to hill55's comment:

     

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    I think that list needs to be salary adjusted.

    For example, I'd much rather have Bumgardner than Cain if I were SF.  Similar talent and almost $20M difference in salary.  Anyone that is near market can be replaced.

    On the RS, technically no one, though I'd have a hard time trading Pedey or Buchholz.


    The salary-adjusted list has Madison Bumgarner at No. 19 and Matt Cain at No. 48.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/2012-trade-value-50-46/

     



    It's one of the things that is almost always missed in here.  It's not an absolute, there are exceptions where you'll overpay, but for the most part, a winning strategy is just getting the most production for each dollar spent.  If Felix gives you $24M of production for $20M, you're plus $4M.  If Bumgarner gives you $16M of value for $.5M, you just made $15.5M.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Anyone Untouchable?

    The value of prospects and players varies due to team needs. I think the Sox wouldnt even think about trading Pedey. You have to keep certain core players that bring a lot to the table for stability and leadership as well as production. pedey provides all that and at a very reasonable price.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Anyone Untouchable?

    No player is untouchable.

    It all depends what you are being given as well as what you have coming from the minors to fill that position/player.

    Which is why the trade was wrong for me. RS got nothing in return to fill LF and 1B and have nothing ready right now to fill either one.

    Now to get some one they will need to trade more good pieces since there is nothing in the FA to fill those holes.

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Anyone Untouchable?

    In response to JohnnyLefty's comment:

    Does this team right now honestly have anyone that is "untouchable." (in regards to trades) Now in reality there is probably no player in Baseball that is "untouchable" because I'm sure if the Tigers offered Fielder, Cabrera, and Verlander and pay all their salaries for Felix Hernandez the Mariners would say yes in a heart beat. However that would never happen in a million years. So in reality do the Red Sox have any players that are "untouchable?" Here are some examples of players I think on other teams that are untouchable:

    Mike Trout - Angels
    Jared Weaver - Angels
    Justin Verlander - Tigers
    Felix Hernandez - Mariners
    Clayton Kershaw - Dodgers
    Matt Kemp - Dodgers
    Robinson Cano - Yankees
    Giancarlo Stanton - Marlins
    Joey Votto - Reds
    Carlos Gonzalez - Rockies
    Buster Posey - Giants
    Matt Cain - Giants
    Bryce Harper - Nationals
    Stephan Strasburge - Nationals
    Gio Gonzalez - Nationals
    Evan Longoria - Rays
    Andruw Mccutchen - Pirates

    Here is a list of a lot of players that for the most probably can not be had in a trade. Do the Red Sox have ANY of those types of players? The only 2 that come to my mind are Middlebrooks and Pedroia but really are they untouchable? I don't think so. Especially not Middlebrooks because he maybe the exact type of player we need to give up in order to get a big time pitcher. So do the Red Sox have any "untouchables?"

    I would say Pede, Middy, Clay, Jon, Bogaerts, Barnes and Bradley should be untouchables at the moment.  Even Lav and Ciriaco unless we trade for a more productive SS or C.  Jon and Clay should also be kept in the rotation along with aquiring a couple more front line starters.



     

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Anyone Untouchable?

    For a big market team, that's useless bean counting. You hvaen't made a dime, despite the fantasy minded fangraphs.

     

    That's because you don't understand BB economics.  Everytime you sign a guy like Crawford, that's $20M that cannot be spent elsewhere.  Every time you spend $16M on Lackey, that is $16M that cannot be spent elsewhere.

    You have $170M to spend.  That's a big market payroll.

    But if you spend $50M+ on players like CC, Lackey, Dice and jenks, with very little contribution, then you are now a mid-market payroll of $120M.

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Anyone Untouchable?

    In response to TrotterNixon's comment:

     

    That's because you don't understand BB economics.

    You don't have a clue about baseball economics, as well as no reading comprehension.

     



    Once someone resorts to insults instead of answering questions, you know they've lost the debate.

    How you found a single shread of documentation?

    I didn't think so.

    Let me know what else you want me to school you in.

    Class dismissed.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Anyone Untouchable?

    Nobody is untouchable.

    That being said, looking at the Sox players, their skillset/upside, length of team control and relative cost, here is my list of Sox players I'd like to keep in approximate order of value.

    Bogaerts

    Buchholtz

    Middlebrooks

    Barnes

    Bradley

    Pedroia

    Webster

    de la Rosa

    Cecchini

    Brentz

    Lavarnway

    Swihart

    Owens

    Ranaudo

    Doubront

    Marrero

    T Shaw

    de la Cruz

    Lester

    Bailey

    Ellsbury

    Salty

    Tazawa

    Ciriaco

    A  Miller

    Mortensen

    Breslow

    Iggy

    B Johnson

    Linares

    Kalish

    Britton

    Pimental

    Light

    Byttrey

    Carpenter

    Stewart

    Gomez

    Workman/Wilson/Jacobs/Vinicio/ Lin (ss)

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Anyone Untouchable?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Nobody is untouchable.

    That being said, looking at the Sox players, their skillset/upside, length of team control and relative cost, here is my list of Sox players I'd like to keep in approximate order of value.

    Bogaerts

    Buchholtz

    Middlebrooks

    Barnes

    Bradley

    Pedroia

    Webster

    de la Rosa

    Cecchini

    Brentz

    Lavarnway

    Swihart

    Owens

    Ranaudo

    Doubront

    Marrero

    T Shaw

    de la Cruz

    Lester

    Bailey

    Ellsbury

    Salty

    Tazawa

    Ciriaco

    A  Miller

    Mortensen

    Breslow

    Iggy

    B Johnson

    Linares

    Kalish

    Britton

    Pimental

    Light

    Byttrey

    Carpenter

    Stewart

    Gomez

    Workman/Wilson/Jacobs/Vinicio/ Lin (ss)

     



    I agree no one is untouchable. Moon I think you have Ranaudo to high on your list as he has shown little so far and I think both Tazawa and Workman should be higher.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Anyone Untouchable?

    The list of importance can change daily or monthly...depending on injury, other trades. I think in order for a TEAM to be successful for more than a couple years, there has to be a core in place. Those guys you dont trade. It gives the team leadership, an identity and a sense of security beside the production. Now at the end of a core players contract, things can and should be re-evaluated. Guys like Pedey and Papi should not be traded. The grass isnt always greener no matter what the numbers say...

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: Anyone Untouchable?

    In Boston? Untouchable?  Certainly not. Even Dustin after his behavior in the Youkilis debacle.

    Maybe Jenny Dell.

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Anyone Untouchable?

    Pedey says one wrong thing since hes been here and now all of a sudden he gets thrown in the untouchable list because of it?  Amazing...I guess some here in RSN do not allow for one mistake. I guess some here are perfect themselves.

    Hes since said it was a mistake, manned up and took responsibility for that. Something you could NEVER get Beckett to do.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Anyone Untouchable?

    I agree no one is untouchable. Moon I think you have Ranaudo to high on your list as he has shown little so far and I think both Tazawa and Workman should be higher.

     

    Fair enough.

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Anyone Untouchable?

    In response to TrotterNixon's comment:

     

    The Red Sox franchise #3 hitter is Ellsbury. He's untouchable. All that is left is to get him signed to a long term 142 Milion deal. The Red Sox must pay the market to retain their franchise player. 

     



    He's 21st on my list, and I wouldn't argue if someone had him #30.

     
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