1. You have chosen to ignore posts from COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN. Show COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN's posts

    APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!

    posted at 10/26/2011 8:43 PM EDT

    must call it as i see it... gammons said it in june that there would be tommy john for lack. i thought he was full of it, lack attacked him and so did many on this board. fact is lack actually showed up versus the yanks with a throbbing arm and he likely pitched in intense pain the past few months. the guy did not have to show up. could have gone home and dealt with other issues while having his surgery like dice but instead he was there for his teammates and others. the guy gets some points. btw, he apologized the next day to his teammates everytime he was "unprofessional" out on the field when they messed up. they all laughed it off as lack being lack!
     

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    Re: APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!

    posted at 10/26/2011 8:51 PM EDT

    yeah, I think my opinion of him has changed a little....the last 24 hours seems to have answered a few questions.....Tommy John surgery has come a long way...we are stuck with his contract and he will sit out 2012....but maybe he comes back like Mike & Mike of ESPN....."back and better than ever"...we can only hope!
     

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    Re: APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!

    posted at 10/26/2011 9:01 PM EDT

    In Response to APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!:
    must call it as i see it... gammons said it in june that there would be tommy john for lack. i thought he was full of it, lack attacked him and so did many on this board. fact is lack actually showed up versus the yanks with a throbbing arm and he likely pitched in intense pain the past few months. the guy did not have to show up. could have gone home and dealt with other issues while having his surgery like dice but instead he was there for his teammates and others. the guy gets some points. btw, he apologized the next day to his teammates everytime he was "unprofessional" out on the field when they messed up. they all laughed it off as lack being lack!
    Posted by COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN

    My opinions hasn't changed and it is actually worse. If the team knew this which they did (he was getting cortisone shots weekly), why didn't they shut him down and get someone else. Any replacement could have pitched better than he did.

     

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    Re: APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!

    posted at 10/26/2011 9:07 PM EDT

    Good call, CC.  I don't remember anything Gammons said, but agree the tommy john surgery changes my view of Lackey. 

     

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    Re: APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!

    posted at 10/26/2011 9:12 PM EDT

    His reputation when the Sox signed him was as a bulldog. I think we saw some of that this year. People forget that he wasn't that bad last year with the Sox. I for one am hoping that his surgery is successful and he comes back looking something like the guy that shut down the Sox in the 2008 postseason.
     

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    Re: APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!

    posted at 10/26/2011 9:15 PM EDT

    Hey.  I called for TJ back in June, too.  Do I get an apology from Lack?

    If Lackey can come back and pitch the way he did shortly after the cortisone shot and time off, then he will be a servicable #3 or #4 guy, which is all he was ever supposed to be, which is why he gets 15 million a year, and not the 20+ Sabatthia gets.  Still a lot of money for a #4 starter, and it really baffles me how Epstein lost his way on that.  Was it the ownership looking to make a splash?  Would love to know who really pushed for that contract and whether Lackey would have signed for a more reasonable contract.
     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!

    posted at 10/27/2011 12:45 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!:
    Hey.  I called for TJ back in June, too.  Do I get an apology from Lack? If Lackey can come back and pitch the way he did shortly after the cortisone shot and time off, then he will be a servicable #3 or #4 guy, which is all he was ever supposed to be, which is why he gets 15 million a year, and not the 20+ Sabatthia gets.  Still a lot of money for a #4 starter, and it really baffles me how Epstein lost his way on that.  Was it the ownership looking to make a splash?  Would love to know who really pushed for that contract and whether Lackey would have signed for a more reasonable contract.
    Posted by parhunter1


    Free agent pitching is expensive. He was just two years removed from leading the league in ERA (3.01) in 2007 and was solid the previous two years 3.75, 3.83.

    I didn't like the contract -- the length more than the yearly dollars, although I didn't like that much either. But consider -- if he started 33 games with an ERA between 3.70 and 4.10 in each of the last two years, does it really matter what he's paid. You know that if you sign a FA pitcher, you're overpaying.
     

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!

    posted at 10/27/2011 1:54 AM EDT

    Amazing Lackey's best stretch of the season came while he is supposedly expereince Tommy John caliber elbow trouble. Don't expect a better Lackey in 2013, he is still a sub-par bust.
     

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!

    posted at 10/27/2011 4:08 AM EDT

    Lackey drank beer in the clubhouse, was petulant with the media, acted like a jerk all season long. Filed divorce papers on his cancer-fighting wife which might have a valid explanation but certainly doesn't make him come off like a real wonderful guy. One of the enduring memories of this season is Lackey waving his arms and scowling at teammates who made mistakes fielding his crummy pitches. 

    I don't owe Gammons an apology as I never got caught up in that story. 

    Nor do I feel I owe Lackey an apology as I really kept my mind open on him for most of the season. If he gutted it out when needing surgery, then I guess he earns my respect if he was in pain. I dunno. Having said all that I sure hope he comes out strong in 2013...and is able to put much of his hardships behind him. I wish him well but doubt he will ever live up to his bloated contract.
     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!

    posted at 10/27/2011 4:12 AM EDT

    I don't like to talk about the cancer so much but earlier in the year many were making record that Lackey was struggling because of his wife's illness, and how deeply that must have been effecting him... 

    Several months later he files for divorce while she is still very much in the midst of her battle with cancer. He is all heart I am sure.  If anything that move alone simplifies just what an azz he really is. That along with his public antics on the mound are all I need to be sure about him.

    This is in fact my only comment on the subject of cancer in the case of the Lackey's, and it will be my only one.
     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!

    posted at 10/27/2011 6:54 AM EDT

    Didnt like the signing in the first place for the same reasons everyone is stating..His act grew tired in Aneheim and it has grown tired here in Boston..I hope he comes back strong so we can trade him away...
     

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    Re: APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!

    posted at 10/27/2011 7:34 AM EDT

    If he needed TJ in June where was the Red Sox medical staff?? Another gaff most certainly.

    I hope we never see him in a Red Sox uniform ever again. His character as a person is lacking (pun intended).
     

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    Re: APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!

    posted at 10/27/2011 7:56 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!:
    If he needed TJ in June where was the Red Sox medical staff?? Another gaff most certainly. I hope we never see him in a Red Sox uniform ever again. His character as a person is lacking (pun intended).
    Posted by sindarin-erebor


    Have to agree with you about the medical staff.  Not sure why they didn't recommend the surgery sooner.  I do believe that the surgery will help him and he will be a much better pitcher when he returns. 
     

  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!

    posted at 10/27/2011 8:22 AM EDT

    If Lackey had surgery, that would have been 3-5ths of the rotation out during the season...The Sox knew about the pre-existing condition, so its not another black eye for the med staff IMO..Thats why they had theat clause in his contract for basically a free year of service if his elbow blows out..He was going to have to have it anyway sooner or later..Its perfect timing for him to do it now with all the hatred for him...I give the guy credit for playing through it, but like I said before...I hope he comes back strong so we can trade his azz...
     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Immortal9. Show Immortal9's posts

    Re: APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!

    posted at 10/27/2011 9:25 AM EDT

    Tommy John or not Lackey is still a bum
     

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!

    posted at 10/27/2011 9:30 AM EDT

    I don't recall the last time a Boston player other than Youk insisted they play even while direly hurt and over a long period of time. If Lackey insisted he pitch for all those weeks than I am surprised; perhaps he is at least a gamer unlike JD Drew.
     

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    Re: APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!

    posted at 10/27/2011 9:32 AM EDT

    that was my first thought too, it had to be painful to throw 90mph with torn lig in an elbow, plus all the other stuff going on in his life, i will give him a pass
     

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    Re: APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!

    posted at 10/27/2011 9:47 AM EDT

    If the recovery / rehab time from TJ surgery is 12-18 months then it doesn't matter if he had the surgery last June or now since he would not be through rehab in time for the 2012 season.

     

  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!

    posted at 10/27/2011 9:51 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!:
    I don't recall the last time a Boston player other than Youk insisted they play even while direly hurt and over a long period of time. If Lackey insisted he pitch for all those weeks than I am surprised; perhaps he is at least a gamer unlike JD Drew.
    Posted by BurritoT


    This post proves tha the issue isn't REALLY about Lackey and his injury, it's more about his perceived character.  

    I think most posters, myself included, hold Mike Lowell as being just two steps below God (metaphorically speaking) and Lowell wanted to play through his injuries too.  The difference betweeen Lowell and Lackey is that Lowell conducted every aspect of his life with respect and class (law's opinions not withstanding).
     

  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!

    posted at 10/27/2011 9:51 AM EDT

    Its interesting to think had they shut him down in July then the FO would have had to acquire another starter besides Bedard. Might that pitcher have made a difference? Hard to say especially because Lackey actually had his best stretch in July/August.
     

  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!

    posted at 10/27/2011 10:00 AM EDT

    First, let me preface this as I'm not a fan of Lackey. I didn't like his signing, and I was well aware of his on-field demonstrative attitude. With that said, anyone who uses his "divorce" as a way of ripping him as a person ought to pipe down. First of all, we don't know any of the circumstances surrounding why he and his wife are getting divorced, and why it happened while she has cancer. How do you know she wasn't having an affair or that she was hiding information from him. It's like the Tito and his "focus" on things because he was having marital issues and moved out and stayed at a hotel this year. Who cares. I don't. I care about what is going on--on the field and the performance. If Lackey was as hurt as he was--then I say this--where was the Sox medical staff on this? Is Lackey that stupid that he hid an arm injury, thinking he was doing the right thing? He helped cost the team a playoff spot with his terrible pitching all season--rip him for that. The beer drinking and Popeye chicken is not important, neither is his personal off-field issues. Lackey might be a bad guy, but it's way too easy to paint him bad for off-the-field stuff and lose the big picture---he didn't pitch well....that's the issue. Now, he is finally getting a surgery and we'll see if he can re-generate his career in 2013.
     

  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!

    posted at 10/27/2011 10:31 AM EDT

    In Response to APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!:
    must call it as i see it... gammons said it in june that there would be tommy john for lack. i thought he was full of it, lack attacked him and so did many on this board. fact is lack actually showed up versus the yanks with a throbbing arm and he likely pitched in intense pain the past few months. the guy did not have to show up. could have gone home and dealt with other issues while having his surgery like dice but instead he was there for his teammates and others. the guy gets some points. btw, he apologized the next day to his teammates everytime he was "unprofessional" out on the field when they messed up. they all laughed it off as lack being lack!
    Posted by COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN

    He should have stayed home.  He was horrible.  If he manned up then they Red sox could have put him on the DL and would have known what they needed to do at the trading deadline.  Why would you want someone "showing up" that was that horrible?

     

  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rutland76. Show Rutland76's posts

    Re: APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!

    posted at 10/27/2011 10:35 AM EDT

    Good points there dannycater. The medical staff and Lackey may have discussed shutting him down in June but weighed all of the pros and cons and decided to let him keep pitching since the injury could not get any worse. Maybe there were no trade possibilities at the time to fill the void.
     

  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!

    posted at 10/27/2011 11:59 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!:
    First, let me preface this as I'm not a fan of Lackey. I didn't like his signing, and I was well aware of his on-field demonstrative attitude. With that said, anyone who uses his "divorce" as a way of ripping him as a person ought to pipe down. First of all, we don't know any of the circumstances surrounding why he and his wife are getting divorced, and why it happened while she has cancer. How do you know she wasn't having an affair or that she was hiding information from him. It's like the Tito and his "focus" on things because he was having marital issues and moved out and stayed at a hotel this year. Who cares. I don't. I care about what is going on--on the field and the performance. If Lackey was as hurt as he was--then I say this--where was the Sox medical staff on this? Is Lackey that stupid that he hid an arm injury, thinking he was doing the right thing? He helped cost the team a playoff spot with his terrible pitching all season--rip him for that. The beer drinking and Popeye chicken is not important, neither is his personal off-field issues. Lackey might be a bad guy, but it's way too easy to paint him bad for off-the-field stuff and lose the big picture---he didn't pitch well....that's the issue. Now, he is finally getting a surgery and we'll see if he can re-generate his career in 2013.
    Posted by dannycater


    Great points, Danny. I was thinking the same thing.

    I will say I'll cut him a little slack if he was trying to pitch through the injury. Maybe he honestly believed he could battle through and help the team. But it is something to consider when people want to rip players for not playing hurt. Maybe those players aren't soft. Maybe they're just smart and realize that is they try to play hurt to show how tough they are, they're not helping the team. The guys who admit that and sit out might be helping the team more.

    Some time a player can battle through at 70 or 80 percent and be productive. Other times, like Youk, for example, they should have been smarter and sat.
     

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    Re: APOLOGIES TO PETER GAMMONS + MR. LACKEY!

    posted at 10/27/2011 12:55 PM EDT

    Gammons was getting his information from Theo so it had to be good.  He was right on, it just took Lackey's horrible season for him to realize he had to have it as a way to pitch better and to get out of Boston for a full season.  If he came back next year the fans would make it miserable for him.