Appaling ignorance on this board

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Appaling ignorance on this board

    In response to "Appaling ignorance on this board":
    Countless threads about the lineup, Bryd, Lavarnway, Middlebrooks, Youkilis, Ellsbury, Crawford, whoever, but none on the sorry shape of the pitching staff. There have even been threads on morale, attitude, Bobby V, hustle, etc. But none on pitching. I am proud to say I have repeatedly said the only problem worth focusing on is pitching. It was lousy in 2009, 2010, and 2011, but those staffs were not the worst in MLB, except for last years in /September. This staff is the worst in MLB. Posted by maxbialystock
    I started the thread "it's the pitching STUPID". You must have missed it
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Appaling ignorance on this board

    In Response to Re: Appaling ignorance on this board:
    In response to "Appaling ignorance on this board": I started the thread "it's the pitching STUPID". You must have missed it
    Posted by Alibiike


    Actually, I said that before you started your thread.  And, before we congratulate each other (which I unfortunately did in the OP), we should agree that the pitching problem has been completely obvious all season.  It was also where this team left off last season--worst ERA in MLB in September 2011.

    I only started this thread because I'm tired of everyone (almost) arguing "if we only had a SS, 3B, outfielder, catcher, you name it" when it's so obvious the pitching is the problem. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Appaling ignorance on this board

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    In Response to Re: Appaling ignorance on this board : Make up your mind.  If Theo ruined the team, presumably if you were running things you would have fired him.  But you are also complaining that they didn't get adequate compensation for him?????
    Posted by lives2ski

    He ruined the team and I am so angry about it I can't believe he was allowed out of his contract.  Make him stay and do nothing for his last year if you are not going to get some adequate compensation.  He created the team that we are suffering with.  
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Appaling ignorance on this board

    In Response to Appaling ignorance on this board:
    Countless threads about the lineup, Bryd, Lavarnway, Middlebrooks, Youkilis, Ellsbury, Crawford, whoever, but none on the sorry shape of the pitching staff. There have even been threads on morale, attitude, Bobby V, hustle, etc. But none on pitching. I am proud to say I have repeatedly said the only problem worth focusing on is pitching. It was lousy in 2009, 2010, and 2011, but those staffs were not the worst in MLB, except for last years in /September. This staff is the worst in MLB.
    Posted by maxbialystock


         It's not just one area. This team stinks, from top to bottom. The biggest problem is not the pitching...but the overall attitudes of the fat cat players on this team. They're spoiled, lazy, and aren't bothered by losing. Time to blow the country club up, infuse a ton of money in the farm system, and and rebuild. Keep Pedroia and Gonzalez. The rest need to go.

         Go back to the "money ball" philosophy...bring up the kids, and see what they can do.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Appaling ignorance on this board

    Obviously the pitching is the biggest problem out of many. Just as obvious is the fact that you getting upset because every thread is not about the pitching isn't very productive.  

    This board is for people to talk about the Red Sox. If someone wants to start a thread about a Jonathan Hee  and how he is 1 for 9 at Pawtucket then they have the right to do so.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from lucbom. Show lucbom's posts

    Re: Appaling ignorance on this board

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    In Response to Re: Appaling ignorance on this board : That's exactly it, we could have used that money to get anything else as far as I am considered. Lackey was the worst signing of all, maybe more so than Lugo. Buch isn't worthy of being a number 3 and Doubrant is showing promise, while I am still skeptical about Bard. I can only hope we go after Cole Hamels once he is available.
    Posted by freediro


    If and when the Sox are able to sign Hamels for big bucks and 3-5 years, Hamils will probably turn out to be yet another fat cat, egotistical, overpaid, injury prone, lackadaisical, etc, etc, player that the Sox much to often seem to get struck with.  I say "THW" signing these prima donna free agents and start bringing up the kids who will at least have some fire in their belly's compared to many of the current Red Sox. When pitching is the name of the game, you really got to worry about the wisdom of Larry, Ben, and BV, in trading Buch for yet another injury prone has been to play the outfield.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from rfitch. Show rfitch's posts

    Re: Appaling ignorance on this board

    I agee with you that if they sign Hamels he could end up a bum too. 
    Thats why the last thing you do is move Bard back into the bullpen.  If he can continue to develop along with Doubront, they are starters you have tied up cheap for years.  Suck it up, leave them in the rotation ans do whatever you can with that bullpen without touching doubront and Bard.

    And yes, this team is a direct result of the teams philosphy of not spending money on your bullpen.  This is what you end up with.  They had chances to sign many good relievers the past several years and passed.  Now we all get to watch this mess.

    The problem is not the offense.  They will hit and the some of the games they didn't hit, were against great pitchers like Verlander.  thye had one of the best offenses in theleagues last year and in my opinion (not taking elsbury's injury into account), their offense is better.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Appaling ignorance on this board

    In Response to Re: Appaling ignorance on this board:
    royf19, I'm happy to agree that most pitchers on this staff have had good games/innings, but the totality of the pitching staff is a disaster, especially when the three veteran starters have each been pummeled.  To me the signature game of the season wasn't today, but was game 3 in Detroit when the Sox gave the bullpen a three run lead in the 9th and a two run lead in the 11th, and both times the bullpen gave up three runs.  As others have noted, this trend is not new.  Last month, also known as September 2011, the Sox had the worst ERA in MLB and blew 6 of 9 saves.  In 2009, 2010, and 2011 the team ERA was 8th or 9th in the AL.  My point remains.  Until the pitching is fixed, the hitters, who are also the fielders, are going to feel a lot of frustration watching opposing teams get big leads or, worse, overcome big Sox leads.  This is all on the front office, although some of it might fall on the pitching coach and the two catchers.  The hitting, meanwhile, remains pretty good.  Best in MLB last year, and somewhere around 7th in MLB after today.  It could be better, but it is way, way, way better than the sorry pitching. 
    Posted by maxbialystock


    The hitting has been feast or famine and that has been a major problem. The Sox lost two games where they've scored plenty of runs, but they lost at least four games when the pitching was great but there was no hitting.

    You wrote that the top three pitchers got pummeld at least once. Lester and Beckett really don't concern me right now. Beckett has been very good the last two starts, and as long as Lester bounces back, I don't think he's a concern.

    And Bard and Doubront have looked good. I think from the starting pitching standpoint, as long as Buchholz can get straightened out -- his next start will be key -- there's a lot to be positive about.

    The bigger problem is the bullpen but it really goes to show how much of a crpshoot it really is. Aceves has now had three great appearances and three appearances where he can't get anybody out. It's one thing to blow a save by allowing a run. But to be as bad as he was today -- c'mon, no one expected that from him.

    Did anyone really think that Melancon (sp?) was going to be that bad. He was great last year. Some say, "Well, that's the National League." Statements like that are overblown. As I recall, an NL team won the W.S. The NL advantage for pitchers is with the starters who don't have to face a DH. The have easy outs in the lineup with pitchers. But Melancon was a closer. He wasn't facing pitchers.

    What was demoralizing about today (Saturday) was that the guy who blew up were guys who had been pitching well. I can't put that on Bobby V., the front office or the pitching coach. That's on the pitchers themselves.

    I don't know what the solution is. There might be a couple of arms you can bring up. A lot of these guys have pitched well in the past. Maybe it suddenly comes back consistently.

    But regardless. This is just the fifth game in 14 that the Sox have scored more than five runs (if I'm remembering correctly a stat I looked up earlier today). That's unacceptable.

    As bad as the pitching has been in some games, there have been too many games this year so far where even if the pitching was better, the Sox didn't score enough runs.

    So there's room for improvement everywhere.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bisson1. Show Bisson1's posts

    Re: Appaling ignorance on this board

    They also play with no heart. Miss the Millars, Nixons, Damons, Pedro. They played the game the right way.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Appaling ignorance on this board

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    Theo ruined the team with his personnel moves and they let him leave with no consequences. The ownership even let him screw them with the compensation for him.  Imagine these idiots let him go with even making him pay. This team will need a miracle to recover.  
    Posted by concord27

    So Theo Epstein was so horrible that the Red Sox wanted compensation when the Cubs kindly took Epstein off their hands?

    That doesn't make sense.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter55. Show parhunter55's posts

    Re: Appaling ignorance on this board

    It is the pitching.  You are right. It is always about the pitching for this team, and always has been.  The only years in which they get to the post season are years in which they have had good starters and an excellent bullpen, at least 5 deep, with a real closer.  It just isn't as easy to throw names out there and see a fix.  Much easier to say, bring up Lavarnway (which I still hope they do soon) or bring up Iglesias (who has not proven he is major league ready with the bat, IMO).

    latest rumor has it the Sox are heavy after Oswalt again.  This makes so little sense to me.  Almost as little as trading a decent, if not spectacular, young reliever for Marlon Byrd.  Yes, the Sox need a major league level OFer to fill in while Crawford is out...maybe two more weeks.  Why send Bowden and a player to be named for a two week rental?  Bowden should have been on the roster and pitching today instead of Thomas, who belongs on no ones team that wants to win--and it matters not that he is a lefty.  Lefty Batting Practice pitchers are just as bad as righty Batting Practice pitchers.

    The Sox have Cook, Ohlendorf, Duckworth, all pitching extremely well in Pawtucket.  They have Dice-K returning perhaps in just about 6 weeks.  They have Doubront being about the most dependable starter on the staff.  They have Bard getting better by the start.  They have Beckett having pitched well for two games straight.  They have Lester, who always seems to have a rough April, only to end up with an ERA around 3.5 or so.  That is eight starters before you count Buchholz.  What would adding Oswalt do?  Put Bard back in the bullpen?  What happens to Cook?  What happens to Doubront when Dice-K returns?  You aren't going to put Lester, Beckett or Buchholz into the pen to fix the pen, even if they are underperforming.  So the solutions are not obvious at all.

    I will take my shot at it anyway.  The Sox will probably do just the opposite, but I think they should option Buchholz down to Pawtucket if he has any options left.  Bard and Doubront should stay in the rotation and Cook should take Buchholz's spot.  Forget Oswalt.  If they can, they should trade Ohlendorf for a reliever or make him one.  Dump Thomas and Albers and bring in Ohlendorf and Duckworth.  Make Aceves the PTBNL for Byrd.  Trade Youkilis for a reliever with closing experience (and desire).  Hope Hill can continue his quick recovery and that Melancon can continue to find his groove in Pawtucket. Wish Bailey and Jenks quick and full recoveries.

    I know my view of Aceves will be shocking and draw criticism from just about everyone.  But he is not a closer, and he is not needed as a starter.  He seems to be upset, and he is proving to be the pitcher the Yankees let go unsigned.  My fear is that Bard in the bullpen will pitch as he did in September, and end up being one of those up and down pitchers who gets buried in the depth charts the way Bowden was.  All those who doubt Bard in the rotation.  I doubt him as a closer, or even as the successful set-up man he was from May to August of last season.  He does not want to close any more than Aceves does.  You've got to want to close to be good at it.  

    I know I have rambled on, but to sum it up:  it is the bullpen that needs fixing, but pulling Doubront and Bard from the rotation may not fix it much at all, but it will hurt the rotation.  Keep Tazawa, Atchison and Morales. Dump Padilla, Aceves, Thomas and Albers.  Bring in Duckworth, Ohlendorf, Inman and Mock. Bring in a closer by trade for Youkilis, if possible, and bring up Middlebrooks for 3B.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Appaling ignorance on this board

    In Response to Appaling ignorance on this board:
    Countless threads about the lineup, Bryd, Lavarnway, Middlebrooks, Youkilis, Ellsbury, Crawford, whoever, but none on the sorry shape of the pitching staff. There have even been threads on morale, attitude, Bobby V, hustle, etc. But none on pitching. I am proud to say I have repeatedly said the only problem worth focusing on is pitching. It was lousy in 2009, 2010, and 2011, but those staffs were not the worst in MLB, except for last years in /September. This staff is the worst in MLB.
    Posted by maxbialystock



    Apparently you're a bit slooooooow with the whole READING thing.  It has been mentioned ad nosiem!  By the way, where were your Opening Threads about this stunning revelation before today.  You say the rest of us must be stunningly ignorant, because you missed the endless threads discussing the sorry state of affairs, visa vi, pitching.  I guess the rest of us don't feel the need to discuss the freaking obvious.  Is it our job to start a thread so you can affirm your brilliant grasp of the obvious???

    PLEASE!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Appaling ignorance on this board

    Yeah, max is the only genius who has said we need pitching. He's a marvel of intelligence. We should have all listened to this baseball guru.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rvicini. Show rvicini's posts

    Re: Appaling ignorance on this board

    Of course it is pitching, but in the peripherals, our game calling is an absolute disaster. Salty is not for Boston. This is Season 1 without Tek
     
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