Are the "Coma-Lovers" Ready to Capitulate?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Are the "Coma-Lovers" Ready to Capitulate?

    How long will it take for you guys to discern that there's a mediocrity that's crept into the RS dugout?

    Is that now defined as the 3rd best record in the pros?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from plinny. Show plinny's posts

    Re: Are the "Coma-Lovers" Ready to Capitulate?

    If you are the willing instrument of the front office then you are culpable. Any manager with his own backbone would simply say, "Darnell MacDonald can sit there every damn night because I refuse to play a .200 bat with an average glove. Now get me someone I can use or get someone else to manage."
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from peanutandme. Show peanutandme's posts

    Re: Are the "Coma-Lovers" Ready to Capitulate?

    To SpacemanEephus, you said in a recent post on the Francona subject that no one has given any game evidence of Terry making bad decisions during any game, just generalizing with no facts whatsoever.

    Well over the course of the season we can all knitpick and find fault with any situation, and maybe someone should keep a journal of each game, to find fault with Francona, and of course give him credit when it is due him.

    But in the just conculed Toronto series I can think of two games one could fault Terry for his decisions or lack of decisions. Again I am not trying to knitpick or tear Francona apart without just cause,but, in the game that Toronto came back and won, with the Sox leading 8 to 5, runners were on first and second with no outs, and Youkilis up, he could have had him bunt the player's along and then we would have scored a run to go up by 4 runs. Now I know people will say that Francona never has Youk bunt[and that is true], but why not get every run you can? That alone may have win that game. Now moving along that same game, he should have had Papelbon not only warmed up[he didn't even get Paps up] he should have come in the game to releive Bard. Just ask yourself this question, if that had been the Yankee's, you can be sure that Rivera would have come in to get 4 outs. Now in the last inning with the score 11 to 10 and 2 outs, Aviles on 1st and Reddick up, [again I know Aviles can steal a base, but let's all agree he is not Ellsbury or Dave Roberts] you never want to end the game and take the bat out of a player who is capable of hitting a HR or at least get the bat on the ball. You just can't allow your runner to get thrown out, thus ending the game.

    Now in lasts nights game, why would you allow Nate Spears to hit with the game on the line with Gonzalez, Crawford and Saltalamacchia on the bench?

    Even if you like Terry a whole lot, you still must ask yourself these questions. And if you watch the Sox daily surely you can see other instances where Francona does nothing to help the team win.

    It certainly is discouraging to watch every game thru a long season, and then watch him apparently concede the divisional title to your hated rival without so much as a whimper. But that appears to be what has happened.  Now I know the Sox have been beset with injuries to their pitching staff, but I'm sure the Yankee's or Ray's are not feeling sorry for them or letting up one bit.  I know living in Yankee country as I do, the Yankee fans are having a field day right now, and gloating mighty big.
    Again we can't blame Terry for every little thing, but he also has to try everything he has available to him to win each game and not concede anything to anyone. After all know one in baseball will feeel sorry for him. 
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Are the "Coma-Lovers" Ready to Capitulate?

    In Response to Re: Are the "Coma-Lovers" Ready to Capitulate?:
    [QUOTE]Just chippin in to give props to Mr Mojo for his album cover and song. The eternal question for me is always, "Should I put on Zep 2 or 3..." ... consternation and blue screen of death follows... ... does not compute!
    Posted by cglassanos[/QUOTE]
    When it comes to making out, whenever possible, put on side one of Led Zeppelin IV.

    Oh, and damn fine album cover of yours, too.
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1for89. Show 1for89's posts

    Re: Are the "Coma-Lovers" Ready to Capitulate?

    In Response to Re: Are the "Coma-Lovers" Ready to Capitulate?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Are the "Coma-Lovers" Ready to Capitulate? : Attention spans are short. The above post was too long and difficult to grasp for most.
    Posted by Pollyanna1964[/QUOTE]

    You have no right to post here.

    Come back when you have posted over a thousand in less than a year.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from WilcyMoore. Show WilcyMoore's posts

    Re: Are the "Coma-Lovers" Ready to Capitulate?

    There have been a number of quotes concerning my characterization of what the job of a baseball manager is and how he directly influences what ultimately happens between the lines on a day to day basis.  I opined that baseball managers today are typically babysitters, cheerleaders and surrogate parents.  I fully understand the value of keeping a team of 20 to 25 egomaniacs focused and performing at a high level as well as dealing with media in high intensity markets. In terms of what are referred to as strategic competencies, NL baseball is clearly the place where that skill set can be objectively evaluated given the decision making process.  It is ludicrous to compare one manager to another on the basis of team championships.  Having great players who perform well make great managers.   As an experienced leader of many people during my professional career, I set the bar of acceptable performance higher than it should have been, failed to delegate responsibility like I should have and ultimately was respected, but not beloved.  Exercising leadership is a delicate balance between expectations and accepting reality.  Terry Francona has simply been the right person at the right time in the right place for a baseball team and the real question has to do with whether or not it's time for change which is inevitable.   That being said the devil you know is often preferable to the one you do not.  Some fans would be wise to consider that fact when they demand change.   
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PetesCall. Show PetesCall's posts

    Re: Are the "Coma-Lovers" Ready to Capitulate?

    Good points Wilcy, but it's time for the change. We've seen enough...Coma has run his course and is now a burden...perhaps Theo too.


    In Response to Re: Are the "Coma-Lovers" Ready to Capitulate?:
    [QUOTE]There have been a number of quotes concerning my characterization of what the job of a baseball manager is and how he directly influences what ultimately happens between the lines on a day to day basis.  I opined that baseball managers today are typically babysitters, cheerleaders and surrogate parents.  I fully understand the value of keeping a team of 20 to 25 egomaniacs focused and performing at a high level as well as dealing with media in high intensity markets. In terms of what are referred to as strategic competencies, NL baseball is clearly the place where that skill set can be objectively evaluated given the decision making process.  It is ludicrous to compare one manager to another on the basis of team championships.  Having great players who perform well make great managers.   As an experienced leader of many people during my professional career, I set the bar of acceptable performance higher than it should have been, failed to delegate responsibility like I should have and ultimately was respected, but not beloved.  Exercising leadership is a delicate balance between expectations and accepting reality.  Terry Francona has simply been the right person at the right time in the right place for a baseball team and the real question has to do with whether or not it's time for change which is inevitable.   That being said the devil you know is often preferable to the one you do not.  Some fans would be wise to consider that fact when they demand change.   
    Posted by WilcyMoore[/QUOTE]
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Are the "Coma-Lovers" Ready to Capitulate?

    Thing is, the Sox only need win 4 or 5 in a row... they could lose the majority of the others and will still make the show.

    Odds are they will put together a small win streak - seemingly large at present.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Are the "Coma-Lovers" Ready to Capitulate?

    /Good points Wilcy, but it's time for the change. We've seen enough...Coma has run his course and is now a burden...perhaps Theo too."

    Umm...."we've seen enough." You mean yourself and a few message board zealots who have no impact on the actual future of the team? 

    Here's the thing, I prefer to wait until the season is over to hand out my report card. Given that the Sox still have a remote chance (albeit remote) to win the world series this year, I'll let the season play out before I pass judgment. 

    Then I will assign blame or success based on some simple criteria you may want to think about: 

    1. General Manager - how well did he do providing the team with the resources they needed to win? 

    2. Coach/Manager - how well did he do working with the pieces he was given (that weren't injured?)

    3. To what degree did injuries play a part in derailing a season? And to what extent were those injuries caused by signing too many older or beat up players (if so, back to #1). 

    4. (And this one is the most difficult for you I think) - What is the overall track record over a period of years? 

    While I'm not assigning any blame yet, it's pretty clear that #1 is a big factor (Theo not providing the right pieces) and #3 (injuries) far more than #2 (working with what you have that is healthy on the field). So, while it's not like Francona is without an accountable role, it's painfully clear to anyone who is not a childish basher who has to demean accomplished people with Internet bully nicknames that Francona is likely to get a smaller portion of the blame under these circumstances. Hopefully that helps you to understand some things you didn't grasp when you crafted this premature post.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from WilcyMoore. Show WilcyMoore's posts

    Re: Are the "Coma-Lovers" Ready to Capitulate?

    [QUOTE]/..... 1. General Manager - how well did he do providing the team with the resources they needed to win?  2. Coach/Manager - how well did he do working with the pieces he was given (that weren't injured?) 3. To what degree did injuries play a part in derailing a season? And to what extent were those injuries caused by signing too many older or beat up players (if so, back to #1).  4. (And this one is the most difficult for you I think) - What is the overall track record over a period of years?  While I'm not assigning any blame yet, it's pretty clear that #1 is a big factor (Theo not providing the right pieces) and #3 (injuries) far more than #2 (working with what you have that is healthy on the field).......
    Posted by BostonTrollSpanker[/QUOTE]

    That is a a knowledgeable, objective and thoughtful approach to determining whether or not change is warranted.  If managers, general managers and players were judged based on a "what have you done last week type of criteria or mentality," the majority would be fired and replaced.  Shallow, irrelevant and emotional threads like this are common when a team is not playing well.  The field manager is invariably the first target of rancor and disdain of those who have an agenda to "appear to be passionate," but are really just waiting in the weeds to be absurdly critical to get a reaction from others.  It does not really matter to them whether or not it's positive or negative and at the end of the day it's "much ado about nothing." 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from tetonman50. Show tetonman50's posts

    Re: Are the "Coma-Lovers" Ready to Capitulate?

    In Response to Re: Are the "Coma-Lovers" Ready to Capitulate?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Are the "Coma-Lovers" Ready to Capitulate? : So, in your opinion, the Sox are losing because they just don't want to win right now? If only baseball was that simple. Believe it or not, the game is more than just wanting to win. You say they think "losing is OK". I say that this is the same team that the baseball world feared for much of the season. Rough stretches happen; hot streaks happen too. Over the course of 162 games, weird things are bound to occur. They're not losing because they don't care, but because they're in the midst of a rough patch.
    Posted by RonSwanson[/QUOTE]

    Hello Ron,  A very reasonable set of comments but I do disagree with you a bit.  I've called what we are seeing a lack of a "winning attitude".  Which for those who don't understand what I mean is simply saying settling for the WC is good enough.
    Your correct in saying in baseball streaks happen. And if ever there was a team who specializes in streaks it must be this one.  Do the guys want to win? I am sure they must, but the difference in baseball between hitting a home run, and missing the ball completely, is only an inch or two, or less then a fraction of a second!!  This isn't golf where the ball just sits there for you teed up, ready to pound, while everyone politely shuts up so you can fully focus on hitting the ball.
    My point is that when a team falls apart like ours has it's somehow lost it's focus, and it's edge. This goes beyond the unbelievable number of injuries we seem to suffer to key players each year, but to me sooner or later it is the endless injuries that is where the problem starts.
    What is the answer right now? If any of us arm chair managers really knew I am sure the FO would pay us dearly for that answer.........   And that to me is exactly where the blame for the mess we find ourselves in again this year belongs....... The FO.
    The wheels started coming off months ago one injury at a time to very key players like they seem to do every year and what did the FO do again this year to address it? Virtually nothing.  And clearly nothing effective.  There is where the failure on management belongs. 
    Tito and what is left of our team the is healthy can only juggle so many problems among themselves before balls hit the floor.   Meanwhile the FO is silent. I guess Theo and his counter parts feel it's just their job to spend hundreds of millions on players who don't deliver as promised. They don't deliver as promised not because they are not good players, but simply not as good as their contracts would suggest. Anyone who thinks Tito is the problem then is not considering that he manages this team by the same FO that is sitting on it's hands every year when this same story on folds.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from lhtak. Show lhtak's posts

    Re: Are the "Coma-Lovers" Ready to Capitulate?

    My advice to Theo "GET RID OF FRANCOMA AND GET US MADDON". We have a great team but there is no one to inspire them to play their best. Crawford was the best player on the Rays and he can not play his best under Francoma. Same goes with Lackey and JD. Managment leadership is overlooked most important thing of all. THEO PLEASE GET US MADDON!!!!

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Are the "Coma-Lovers" Ready to Capitulate?

    i would love maddon - but it aint going to happen....
     

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