Bows (roses thrown on stage) 

Thing is we spend enough time on here long enough and our personalities get projected into the forum.  Who we are to some extent shows on here.  Now I'm not saying I can pyschoanalze everyone on here, but I used to have a roommate that reminds me in many ways of Softy.

People like him can't be wrong, and you can never win an argument with him.  I can convince you, every other poster on here, even the whole world and he would just see it as him being solely the only person that is right.  Every single one of us could complain to him and tell him that he is often rude and insulting to posters and ALL ignore him, he would simply convince himself that there is something wrong with us, because surely there can't be anything wrong with him.

He is completely un able to fathom why pretty much every poster on here makes fun of him, or is annoyed by him, or discounts his opinions.  Well Softy it's because you belittle everyone who disagrees with you, god forbid another human being doesn't have the same opinion as you.  I know a lot of other people disagree with me in here, probably on this very thread about JBJ, but we don't have to put other people down to make a point.  For whatever reason Softy does, he has to feel superior to other people, I have no idea why but if I had to guess it be to cover up some fear of being inferior on the inside.  

Honesty 99% of the time Softy doesn't really bother me. In fact I think he brings this board together (against him) and adds character at times.  And 99% of the time I don't care when people insult me.  But I'm up waiting for my laundry to finish and I'm bored, and Softys normal antics aren't as humorous to me tonight. 

I mean If Jesus Christ came flying down on a cloud andsaid "softy my son, Jackie Bradley Jr will go to Pawtucket to polish up his skills at the plate, he needs to work leveling up on the ball and making contact to breaking balls on the outer third" and softy still wouldn't believe him, because it's not what he thinks.  Jacoby could walk on water hit 50 HR next year and offer to play for the league minimum and he would still have to leave in Softys mind.

I suspect softy will come back with some response where he picks apart one thing I've said in an attempt to feel right, he can't admit defeat, he will never know that the jokes on him. Hes the sucker at the poker table looking around for the sucker.

Softy, no one can ever tell you that you aren't consistent.

You just got cyber-slapped

I certainly think we could have done better for our longterm future than:

$39M/3 Victorino

$26.5M/2 Dempster

$26M/2 Ortiz

$9.5M/1 Drew

$9M/1 Ellsbury

That's $110M for nobody that will be helping us in 2015 and beyond. No top prospect for Ellsbury- only a comp pick in 2014. 

It's not shocking that 2 of these guys will probably start the season on the DL. It's not surprising to me that 2-3 capable kids will be blocked for another year, and we'll be in the same boat next year. We basically just punted to next winter.

Unlike some posters here, I get the reasoning behind maximizing years of service in the normal prime years of a player's career, and I have no problem waiting until those dates to call the kids up this year, but what upsets me most is that the Dodger trade set us up for so much promise beyond 2013 that Ben seemed to take his eye off the top priority, and instead concentrated all efforts on making us appear like we are 2013 contenders but at the expense of not further building the longterm future. I'm hoping some of these signed players net us some prospects this deadline or next winter, and I'm giving Ben more time to show us the plan and the results. If we go back to the Dodger trade things look a little better to me, but as I've made myself clear enought imes already, this winter was dissapointing.

In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

Effin A.

you nailed him.

...god forbid another human being doesn't have the same opinion as you. 

softy was raised to believe tolerance is a bad word, but at least he seems to be OK with the fact that only BILL and a handful of others tolerate him.

In response to dgalehouse's comment:

April 12 is the cut off date for JBJ. He's currently not on the 40 man, so different rules apply. If he's on RS roster prior to 4/12 he's elegible for FA after the 2018 season, if after 4/12 RS have control til the 2019 FA.

In response to garyhow's comment:

So, how foolish would it be for him to be on the opening day roster?

We'd lose 1 year to gain less than 2 weeks of his service during a bridge year.

 

(What's the cutoff date for the arb clock year change?)

In response to moonslav59's comment:

Have to think Ben is thinking about the future of the RS w/ every move he makes. Signed a bunch of useful high character guys to short term deals over winter to buy time til kids are ready, also to help a toxic clubhouse. The worst possible thing you can do for a prospect is try to move them along to fast or before they are ready, chance they lose confidence for ever if overwhelmed by talent @ mlb and good luck trying to get that confidence back, many never do. The only prospect that is knocking down the door for me is JBJ and possibly Webster. But as noted above why would Ben bring JBJ up prior to 4/12 to lose a yr of control? this is where Ben is thinking about the future. Many on this board where screaming on this board for Iggy to be starting SS when he got a few hits to start ST [including you Moon], now he's gone hitless for March basically and back down to hitting .200 again, obviously not ready for mlb pitching which is what he's seeing at this time in ST. While Drew might not be Tulo he will be a good 1 yr fill in til either Iggy or Boegarts is ready. But throw Iggy out there after hitting .118 last yr would be foolish, let him go to AAA hopefully have some success get his confidence back up then hopefuly he gets a chance sometime late in the yr to prove he's capable, throwing him out there on OD would be like feeding him to the wolves after how last yr went!

We have what we have. Time to move on from what moves were or werent made this offseason. This is the team we have, like it or not.

JBJ will be available for the 40-man roster April 12th, at which time he can be brought up without losing a year of control.

In response to garyhow's comment:

In response to moonslav59's comment:

Saw this in an article by Bleacher Report will see if I can find it and post it for reading. But doesn't make sense for him to be on RS OD. But if Gomes or SV fail or Ells hurt sure he will be up shortly and he deserves to be up. Have to like it when a prospect forces his way up.

Is there any way to lose a year of control and 10 million in costs for Ellsbury?

Like it or not, it's time to raise expecatations for the 150 million dollar plus members of the Red Sox chapter of the MLBPA.

Was Drew worth a year of control for 10 million. That's not a question.

Was shane worth 3 years of control for 39 million. That's not a question.

Is Ortiz worth 2 years of control for 26 million. That's not a question.

I think Red Sox managment needs to put the best team on the field, avoid the dumpster Free agents, and trade those who are too expensive for the bench and inferior to the alternatives. On second thought, why not spend about 150 million and have the Red Sox cheerleader fans engage in a long narrative about why Bradley needs to wait a few more weeks or months, not because he isn't ready, but to save precious money about a half a decade from now.

Follow along, folks. You don't try and trade Ellsbury. Instead, you pay him 10 million to capitalize on that extra year of control. Then, you sign Shane for 39 million. This saves a year of control on Bradley. Then, 5 years from now, you pay Bradley his 10 million to capitalize on that critical extra year of control. Then, you sign an old dumpster FA for 39 million to make sure you save a year of control of the guy you draft over the next few years.

Folks this management is sharp! They don't miss a trick. That PDF copy of the CBA requires a genius to make sure all those loopholes are utilized to make sure young players get an extra year of control.

Now, for those who say Bradley needs more time to develop, you should not expect him to come up in the next 60 days to replace some bum on the DL.

There's a pontificating poster on here who likes to say "the Red Sox are in phase 1 of the plan". Does anyone know that the plan is?

This post has been removed.

In response to softlaw2's comment:

Yes.  The plan is to return as quickly as possible to being a team that wins 95 games a year, just like the 2003-2009 Red Sox teams.  That's a realistic and attainable goal.

Bradley will be on the opening day roster and be in LF. Look at the stats, they don't lie.

Whoever called for Mike Carp should be ashamed of themselves. If Seattle releases someone, what does that tell you? Spring training average of .214 with 11 K's in 28AB.

And forget Lyle Overbay.

Yes.  The plan is to return as quickly as possible to being a team that wins 95 games a year, just like the 2003-2009 Red Sox teams.  That's a realistic and attainable goal.

That's a goal, not a plan. Spending 50 million a year on 3 dumpster rejects (Dumpster, Shane and S. Drew) and an old veteran in decline (Ortiz) is not a plan to reach the goal of 95 wins a year. It's a plan of incompetence.

I just heard that if JBJ is on the opening day roster, as long as he is sent down for at least 20 games he wont lose that year of control.

Just to set the record straight, I am all for JBJ starting in Boston. I just think its pretty dumb to not wait 12 days if in fact he will lose a year of control calling him up before that. But like I said above, and if I heard Rob Bradford correctly, as long as hes sent back down for at least 20 games the Sox will NOT lose that extra year of control making JBJ a FA in 2019 instead of 2018.

If I got something wrong will someone who knows 100% what their talking about please fill me in on these rules.

In response to southpaw777's comment:

If that's the case, I don't have a problem with JBJ starting the season in Boston, with Ortiz probably not being ready to go yet.

If JBJ looks like he's struggling, send him down and reset his clock.

In response to southpaw777's comment:

 

I just heard that if JBJ is on the opening day roster, as long as he is sent down for at least 20 games he wont lose that year of control.

Just to set the record straight, I am all for JBJ starting in Boston. I just think its pretty dumb to not wait 12 days if in fact he will lose a year of control calling him up before that. But like I said above, and if I heard Rob Bradford correctly, as long as hes sent back down for at least 20 games the Sox will NOT lose that extra year of control making JBJ a FA in 2019 instead of 2018.

If I got something wrong will someone who knows 100% what their talking about please fill me in on these rules.

 

I think you have it right 777

U might find this is worth reading

 

 

http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/red-sox/content/20130314-sox-plan-to-keep-an-eye-on-the-clock-with-jackie-bradley-jr..ece

 

 

Here’s how it works: Since Bradley is not on the 40-man roster yet, he needs to spend only 11 days in the minor leagues at the start of the season to prevent him from accruing a full season of service time. If the Red Sox call Bradley up on April 12 and keep him up all season, he won’t hit free agency until at least after 2019.

Boston, of course, might have a need for Bradley before then, though, because of the injury to David Ortiz. If Bradley is placed on the 40-man roster and promoted before April 12 — for instance, on Opening Day — he would need to spend at least 20 subsequent days in the minor leagues to preserve that extra year of team control. If Bradley breaks camp with the Sox and doesn’t get sent down for that minimum amount of time, he can be a free agent after 2018.

In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

Thanks zac

In response to southpaw777's comment:

I don't know if I 100% know what I'm takling about, although I'm sure there are some posters who are narracistic enough to make such claims.  But I think you got it right.  Personally I am one of those guys who thinks JBJ may need a little bit more time to develop his bat.  I do however see him as the kind of kid that even if he struggles to hit in the MLB he still might get one base at a decent clip.   I can see him facing MLB pitchers who are pitching to scouting reports and his weakness and fully ramped up but still being able to walk alot just because approach at the plate.

But regardless, those who disagree with us are essentially saying that TWO WEEKS!!!! when the only proof that he can hit at the MLB level comes from appx 40 spring training at bats is more valuable than ONE WHOLE YEAR in his prime.  That just doesn't add up. 

No team has ever started the year with their best player on the D.L. for the first two weeks and said "oh no, now we can't make the playoffs"  Not saying JBJ is our best player, just trying to put things in perspective.  If we need two weeks of an unproven rookie to compete, then we really are in no position to compete in the first place.  So then why rush him and waste the year?  keep him in Pawtucket, and if he is mashing it and we were all wrong, then you bring him up and you get an extra year out of him.

 

Yes.  The plan is to return as quickly as possible to being a team that wins 95 games a year, just like the 2003-2009 Red Sox teams.  That's a realistic and attainable goal.

That's a goal, not a plan. Spending 50 million a year on 3 dumpster rejects (Dumpster, Shane and S. Drew) and an old veteran in decline (Ortiz) is not a plan to reach the goal of 95 wins a year. It's a plan of incompetence.

The biggest mistake was not signing bridge players like these (although I'd rather us pass on all of them), but the total lack of any move to strengthen us in 2015 or beyond.

Here we have a narrative about whether Bradley can be on the active roster and whether the Red Sox will have to pay him more as the year approaches 2020. If they can blow 10 million to control a needless bum like S. Drew, they can stop making roster decisions worrying about having to pay  more to control Bradley, Jr. a half a decade from now. Absurd!

"Tolerance" is a word perverted by the Left, along with "hater". It comes down who subjectively claims what is tolerant and what is hate, and what isn't. It's pure subjective nonsense, as is this term "narcissist". The Left possesses all the prideful sins of wrath and envy, and does not tolerate a plurality on the issues associated with their agenda.

The issue of Bradley being on the opening day roster is clear cut. It's not whether he should be, it's the subjective nonsense that "it's because he needs more time in the minors" or "we need to pay Drew 10 million but make sure we try and save 10 million on Bradley a half a decade from now".

For those who think Bradley has "a hole in his swing", so does Ellsbury. It's called making a good ptich. For those who think that active roster spots at the beginning of the season need to heavily facton in "another year of lower cost a half a decade or more from now", make sure you understand that it cost 10 million and 13 million a year to control Drew and Shane. Don't pretend that this euphiemism "control" only involves CBA labor hands who aren't arbitration or FA's.

The only legitimate basis to send Bradley back to the minors is because:

A. The altnernative skill sets are able and as good or better

and 

B. Bradley's spring straining performance raises a reasonable doubt that he's ready for MLB starting service or that he lacks the current poise and physical maturity to keep from being overwhelmed by the increased level of competition of the big league

Bradley passes part A, because Gomes isn't a full time player and is truly a bench guy and Shane is short on power and Gomes should be the pinch hitter and backup for the time Ellsbury and Shane and Bradley should sit, which will amount to, at least, 40 to 50 games.

No one can keep a straight face and mention the names, Carp and Nava et al as better alternatives to making Bradley the starter and Gomes the 4th OF'er/pinch hitter

Bradley clearly passes Part B, because his spring training was so strong on both sides of the ball that there is no doubt he's ready for MLB starting service and has the current poise and physical maturity to keep from being overwhelmed by being a MLB starter.

 

What competent management would do, if they are going to incompetently not trade Ellsbury and pay Shane 13M a year and sign Gomes for 5 million a year, is the following:

Launch a PR campaign that warns fans not to have high expectations on Bradley, stating that he's pressed in duty early because of circumstances. They should state that he's raw and will need a couple of years of MLB experience to mature and begin to reach his full potential levels. They should state that he'll have to learn to make adjustments as pitchers find current weakness, and that he will struggle at the plate. He also will makes some rookie mistakes in the field because he'll be playing in parks that he's not familair with. At the same time, he will provide a lot of excitement with his speed and has a great attitude about team baseball and has been a champion at every level he's competed. The statement should conclude that fans need to enjoy the excitement and attitude he brings to the team, but they need to be patient and allow him room to make mistakes and learn from them.

After that, they should put out the folloiwng OF depth chart:

LF Bradley  Gomes  (5th emergency outfielder from bench utility guy)

CF Ellsbury Bradley

RF Shane Gomes (5th emergency outifelder from bench Utitlity guy) 

 

Given what Cherry has done, he needs to assemble the team to play to it's strengths, which will not be adjusted for park factor SLG.  Thus, a stong run prevention OF that will feature an OF that will make it very difficult for anything but the hardest driven placed balls and homers to hit the turf in the OF. 

Iglesias should be the starting SS, with Ciriaco being the UIF'er and ermergency 5th OF"er before a call-up can be made if required.

Once S. Drew comes off the "unable to perform" list, they need to hope that he comes back soon enough before Ortiz returns and he hits well enough to try and dump him on another team who's had an early injury to a SS. If not, they should not DFA/wiaver Ciriaco and put Iglesias on the bench, but use an option on Iglesias for enough time to try and get rid of Drew before the trade deadline and permanently put Iglesias in as the starting SS.

Salty should DH until Ortiz returns, with Ross starting at catcher. Lavarnway should be on the roster until Ortiz returns. With Salty, foget Carp. The emergency 1st base at the beginning of the year should be Salty, and Ciriaco should be the emergency 5th OF'er.  

Given what Cherry has done, the best defensive team is what should be the tipping point for roster decisions. With Iglesias and Bradley, the Red Sox become an elite defensive OF and up the middle defensive team. Very important to start Ross, not Salty, at catcher.

I think they need to move Middlebrooks to 1st base, for 2014, with what is in place on the farm. No doubt about that. Had they not gone 2 years on Ortiz they could have signed Napoli to a one year deal to be the DH/1B/emergency catcher. Oh well. 

 

In response to softlaw2's comment:

 

 

 

bleacher report crap.