Are the Sox contracts REALLY that bad???

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wolfpack13. Show Wolfpack13's posts

    Re: Are the Sox contracts REALLY that bad???

    This has been my point well... forever. Everyone screams about how the Sox "overpay" everyone. Show me the boatload of FAs who are underpaid every year. One of the only few ways to "underpay" is with guys like Beltre. Take a risk (I'm sure fans were complaining about his contract at the time), buy low and then the guy plays like a monster.

    Bottom line is Sox will truly overpay 10-20% like the Yanks do to ensure they get the player they want, but it isn't as absurd as fans make it out to be.

    A few exceptions when Lackey and Crawford... Lackey probably should've gotten 14-15mil, he gets 17 from the Sox and then is horrible. Of course that will look like a ridiculous overpay because his performance was awful. Same with Crawful.

    Final point, I think the signings this year have been smart in terms of $$$ none over 3 years.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Are the Sox contracts REALLY that bad???

    I guess if your priority was to help us pretend to be serious contenders in 2013 and sign nobody who will be in their prime in 2014 or 2015 (the years we may have a chance), then yes, the signings have been "smart".

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Are the Sox contracts REALLY that bad???

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I heard he got $40/4, and I never said we could have gotten him at that rate. The thread pointed out FAs signed and asked who we'd rather have over what we ended up getting. Pagan was not on the list, but for argument's sake, I'd rather have Pagan at $40M/4 than Victorino at $39M/3. (I'd even go $42M/4 rather than SV, but I'd rather not have signed either at this cost.)

    [/QUOTE]

    You're right, Pagan was $40/4.  It shows on B-R as $45/4 for some reason.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: Are the Sox contracts REALLY that bad???

    Bottom line FA market not the place to build a team. If you have a team that is a playoff contender and there is a player that might help put you over the top, then that is a good sign. Seems most of the best deals are for the guys that sign very late and nobody else wanted, C.Ross a perfect example. Hopefully the idiocy of 6-10 year contracts will be a thing of the past. Very seldom do they work out, for every M.Rameriz or D.Jeter that fulfil and play to a level deserving of such a contract, there are 5 that don't work out. Think Yanks would want out of Arod deal if they could? IMO opinion the Hamilton and Greinke deals will both be deals that Angels and Dodgers will soon regret.

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Are the Sox contracts REALLY that bad???

    In response to pinstripezac's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to garyhow's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Bottom line FA market not the place to build a team. If you have a team that is a playoff contender and there is a player that might help put you over the top, then that is a good sign. Seems most of the best deals are for the guys that sign very late and nobody else wanted, C.Ross a perfect example. Hopefully the idiocy of 6-10 year contracts will be a thing of the past. Very seldom do they work out, for every M.Rameriz or D.Jeter that fulfil and play to a level deserving of such a contract, there are 5 that don't work out. Think Yanks would want out of Arod deal if they could? IMO opinion the Hamilton and Greinke deals will both be deals that Angels and Dodgers will soon regret.

    [/QUOTE]


    solid post garyhow

    while I mostly agree

    I wish people would leave arod out of these discussions

    there are plenty of other examples ( teixera if U must)

    arod was a unique situation

    most of his contract was about marketing

    those records everyone thought at the time he would break

    part of pujos deal might fall under that umbrella as well

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Maybe so, but the idea behind the deal doesn't make make it any less of a disaster.

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Are the Sox contracts REALLY that bad???

    In response to pinstripezac's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:


    Maybe so, but the idea behind the deal doesn't make make it any less of a disaster.




    while that might be true

    it's still not like the other bad contracts out there

    unlike the others

    it's not so much his lack of production that made this contract a disaster

    it was his reputation losing credibility along with the new CBA that did that

    if the yanks were still spending at will

    I would disagree with you calling it a disaster


    [/QUOTE]


    If A-rod continued to product at a high level, he'd still be overpaid, but the Yankees and their fans could live with it.

    You think the fans were booing his lack of credibility this past fall?

    I don't.

    I also don't think a lot of Yankees fans were hoping he'd get traded due to a lack of credibility.

    Unless his hip surgery is very successful, credibility will be the least of A-Rods and the Yankee's problems.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kingface12. Show Kingface12's posts

    Re: Are the Sox contracts REALLY that bad???

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pinstripezac's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:


    Maybe so, but the idea behind the deal doesn't make make it any less of a disaster.




    while that might be true

    it's still not like the other bad contracts out there

    unlike the others

    it's not so much his lack of production that made this contract a disaster

    it was his reputation losing credibility along with the new CBA that did that

    if the yanks were still spending at will

    I would disagree with you calling it a disaster


    [/QUOTE]


    If A-rod continued to product at a high level, he'd still be overpaid, but the Yankees and their fans could live with it.

    You think the fans were booing his lack of credibility this past fall?

    I don't.

    I also don't think a lot of Yankees fans were hoping he'd get traded due to a lack of credibility.

    Unless his hip surgery is very successful, credibility will be the least of A-Rods and the Yankee's problems.

    [/QUOTE]
    I actually think both of you are correct.  The only reason why the Yanks signed him to that ridiculous contract was so he can break records while wearing the hollowed pinstripes......that blew up in their face since he is now known as a roid head and his body is falling abpart.  Being an NYC transplant.....they are not booing his roid issues or he won't be breaking any records...they're booing him because he simply is not producing.  Other than one and MAYBE two years....can any HONEST Yankee fan remember a season where there was no drama following this guy?  That's why they boo.... People are sick of it and sick of the fact that he will NEVER fit in with the illustrious yankee 'mystique'....

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kingface12. Show Kingface12's posts

    Re: Are the Sox contracts REALLY that bad???

    In response to pinstripezac's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Kingface12's comment:

    I actually think both of you are correct.  The only reason why the Yanks signed him to that ridiculous contract was so he can break records while wearing the hollowed pinstripes......that blew up in their face since he is now known as a roid head and his body is falling abpart.  Being an NYC transplant.....they are not booing his roid issues or he won't be breaking any records...they're booing him because he simply is not producing.  Other than one and MAYBE two years....can any HONEST Yankee fan remember a season where there was no drama following this guy?  That's why they boo.... People are sick of it and sick of the fact that he will NEVER fit in with the illustrious yankee 'mystique'....

    [/QUOTE]

    I actually think both of you are correct. The only reason why the Yanks signed him to that ridiculous contract was so he can break records while wearing the hollowed pinstripes......that blew up in their face since he is now known as a roid head and his body is falling abpart.


    thank you

    that was my original point

    it's a horse  contract of a different color compared to other big contracts

    Being an NYC transplant.....they are not booing his roid issues or he won't be breaking any records...they're booing him because he simply is not producing.


    not 100% sure about that

    some were booing him durring his mvp yrs


    Other than one and MAYBE two years....can any HONEST Yankee fan remember a season where there was no drama following this guy? That's why they boo.... People are sick of it and sick of the fact that he will NEVER fit in with the illustrious yankee 'mystique'....

    king, while your point has some merit

    ( I guess that makes me somewhat honest ;-)

    there's nothing new/ different from the fans this series

    a lot of that drama stuff goe's with the territory

    add the anti jeter stuff/ interview B4 he joined the team

    the guy started from a hole to deep to get out of

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree 100% Zac.  I HATE everything A-Rod so I sometimes come accross a bit over the top when I see his name pop up!  I will say though....a VERY small part of me felt bad that he did indeed start on the wrong foot casued by the whole Jeter situation early on.  If Jeter didn't wear the stripes he would be my favorite player (...same with Mo) but that was the one time I had to disagree with what he did.  NYC embraces winners probably more so than any other city in the country....but it also has HUGE disdain towards losers....probbaly more so than any other city in the country (Philly may give that part a run for the money though).  A-Rod simply is not a winner.  Amazingly gifted player.....one of the best we'll ever see...roids aside....but other than that 1 post season he just has not lived up to the lofty goals.

    Un-related question Zac.  Do you think the Yanks are hoping that when he comes back from the hip later this season that they are hoping he does great and can somehow trade him at seasons end...or try their hardest to trade him either way?  That contract is going to kill them especially since supposedly they are trying to cut payroll.  I never would have thought it was possible to trade him....but now after the Sox trading Crawford and Beckett....anything is possible!

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Are the Sox contracts REALLY that bad???

    In response to Kingface12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pinstripezac's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:


    Maybe so, but the idea behind the deal doesn't make make it any less of a disaster.




    while that might be true

    it's still not like the other bad contracts out there

    unlike the others

    it's not so much his lack of production that made this contract a disaster

    it was his reputation losing credibility along with the new CBA that did that

    if the yanks were still spending at will

    I would disagree with you calling it a disaster


    [/QUOTE]


    If A-rod continued to product at a high level, he'd still be overpaid, but the Yankees and their fans could live with it.

    You think the fans were booing his lack of credibility this past fall?

    I don't.

    I also don't think a lot of Yankees fans were hoping he'd get traded due to a lack of credibility.

    Unless his hip surgery is very successful, credibility will be the least of A-Rods and the Yankee's problems.

    [/QUOTE]
    I actually think both of you are correct.  The only reason why the Yanks signed him to that ridiculous contract was so he can break records while wearing the hollowed pinstripes......that blew up in their face since he is now known as a roid head and his body is falling abpart.  Being an NYC transplant.....they are not booing his roid issues or he won't be breaking any records...they're booing him because he simply is not producing.  Other than one and MAYBE two years....can any HONEST Yankee fan remember a season where there was no drama following this guy?  That's why they boo.... People are sick of it and sick of the fact that he will NEVER fit in with the illustrious yankee 'mystique'....

    [/QUOTE]

    Yup.

    I agree.

    What I don't agree with is the notion that most of his contract was due to the expectation of records being broken.

    They signed to him to that contract expecting lots of production (HRs).

    The added attraction of record breakers were an added bonus, not the main reason for the cotract.

    I also plan to bring it up as an example of a bad contract in the future, whether it's "different" or not.

    It's a bad cotract, no what reason it originally signed for.

    Which was the original point of the discussion

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kingface12. Show Kingface12's posts

    Re: Are the Sox contracts REALLY that bad???

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Kingface12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pinstripezac's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:


    Maybe so, but the idea behind the deal doesn't make make it any less of a disaster.




    while that might be true

    it's still not like the other bad contracts out there

    unlike the others

    it's not so much his lack of production that made this contract a disaster

    it was his reputation losing credibility along with the new CBA that did that

    if the yanks were still spending at will

    I would disagree with you calling it a disaster


    [/QUOTE]


    If A-rod continued to product at a high level, he'd still be overpaid, but the Yankees and their fans could live with it.

    You think the fans were booing his lack of credibility this past fall?

    I don't.

    I also don't think a lot of Yankees fans were hoping he'd get traded due to a lack of credibility.

    Unless his hip surgery is very successful, credibility will be the least of A-Rods and the Yankee's problems.

    [/QUOTE]
    I actually think both of you are correct.  The only reason why the Yanks signed him to that ridiculous contract was so he can break records while wearing the hollowed pinstripes......that blew up in their face since he is now known as a roid head and his body is falling abpart.  Being an NYC transplant.....they are not booing his roid issues or he won't be breaking any records...they're booing him because he simply is not producing.  Other than one and MAYBE two years....can any HONEST Yankee fan remember a season where there was no drama following this guy?  That's why they boo.... People are sick of it and sick of the fact that he will NEVER fit in with the illustrious yankee 'mystique'....

    [/QUOTE]

    Yup.

    I agree.

    What I don't agree with is the notino that most of his contract was due to the expectation of records being broken.

    They signed to him to that contract expecting lots of production (HRs).

    The added attraction of record breakers were an added bonus, not the main reason for the cotract.

    I also plan to bring it up as an example of a bad contract in the future, whether it's "different" or not.

    It's a bad cotract, no what reason it originally signed for.

    Which was the original point of the discussion

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree.  I'm pretty sure if anybody has an aguement against it being a bad contract....they really need to get their head checked.  Why the front office gave them that much is a different story....but in no way will that contract be a GOOD contract.

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Are the Sox contracts REALLY that bad???

    In response to pinstripezac's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

     

    You think the fans were booing his lack of credibility this past fall?


    yes, not entirely, but more than other players that get booed

    arod gets booed extra, even B4 the roids,

    because many perceive him as being a phony /lack of credibility

    besides I wasn't coming from the fans view, posters here seldom do

    I was coming from a Gm's or owners POV

    I did edit my post B4 U finished typing your post

    my point is

    '' it's a horse of a different color'


    Unless his hip surgery is very successful, credibility will be the least of A-Rods and the Yankee's problems.


    like i said it will be the new CBA

    which might make you even wrong about his operation

    to hear the dr say 'oops you can't play again '

    could really help the yanks if they were able

    to charge the rest of his contract in 1 yr against the lux tax

    not sure how that would work

    [/QUOTE]

    You misunderstand.

    I don't think A-rod will come out of his operation with a verdict of "you can't play anymore".

    The Yankees are probably insured for that type of outcome and would probably welcome it, although they'd never admit it.

    I was talking about the possibility of A-rod still being able to play, but not at anywhere near the level the Yankees would expect.

     
  18. This post has been removed.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Are the Sox contracts REALLY that bad???

    In response to pinstripezac's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You misunderstand.

    I don't think A-rod will come out of his operation with a verdict of "you can't play anymore".

    The Yankees are probably insured for that type of outcome and would probably welcome it, although they'd never admit it.

    I was talking about the possibility of A-rod still being able to play, but not at anywhere near the level the Yankees would expect.


    no I understood 4B's

    that's why I said/ say it's the CBA that's the problem




    I also plan to bring it up as an example of a bad contract in the future, whether it's "different" or not.

    you won't be the only one

    and in my eyes ( and future posts)

    anyone one who does so without mentioning the unique marketing w/arod

    is being disingenuous

    [/QUOTE]


    Gee, I guess I'll just have to risk it...

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Are the Sox contracts REALLY that bad???

    At least the Yanks won't have to pay all of the ARod HR bonuses for reaching various milestones.

    But, then again, if they did have to pay the boneses, it would mean ARod did not stink.

     
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