Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mickeypro. Show mickeypro's posts

    Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?

    I hope not, but if they blow this and for the record I dont think they will he could be out.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from athens7676. Show athens7676's posts

    Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?

    If they do.... it will make a lot of people here happy..... until 2 weeks into the new managers tenure, when they start calling for his firing.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALaGatorAL. Show ALaGatorAL's posts

    Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?

    He should be out just for the fact that it got this close !! Hard to imagine that these players do really like "Playing" for Tito with results like this crap !! 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from attic-dan. Show attic-dan's posts

    Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?

    This fiasco is the product of Theo and the Sox going on the cheap once season started. The FO inability to strengthen obvious weaknesses is the #1 reason for late season collaspe.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?

    Francona in my opinion is a lousy field manager and has always been one.  Yes, he is good in the clubhouse, keeps the pressure away from the players, handles the press well and all that.  However, as a strategist he leaves a lot to be desired.  He is wedded to a station-to-station philosophy that only results in us usually leading the league in hitting into double plays.  He is reluctant to bunt, hit and run and move runners in general and what's even worse he is slow to pull a struggling pitcher out of a game and is also stubborn to a fault.

    I know this is not going to sit too well with some here any more than it does with some posters on another board I frequent, but I really believe that unless he and Epstein find work elsewhere next season we will be talking this same stuff come September next season...and the season after that.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from athens7676. Show athens7676's posts

    Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?

    Bad teams play small ball.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?

    thats not entirely true, this team should be able to adapt and capable to play small ball on any given moment.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from aussiewill. Show aussiewill's posts

    Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?

    700 sellouts in a row, making ton's of money. Most teams would consider the Sox the benchmark. Neither Theo or Tito are going anywhere. It's all about "Show me the Money" That part ain't broke , so it won't be fixed.

    John Henry's like the Old Fuller Brush door to door Salesman, of days gone by. They used to say" He laughed all the way to the bank" That's what henry does, laugh all the way to the bank.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BeaconHill19. Show BeaconHill19's posts

    Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?

    When you listened to FOX, ESPN, YES, and NESN baseball game announcers during this season, at some point they all state that Boston does not sacrifice or play smallball like other teams do. It is not their overall strategy. At some point one would think that if the announcers are aware of this fact that those in this forum would become aware of it also. Blame it on ownership, Bill James, Moneyball but why blame it entirely on Tito. That is not logical.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?

    In Response to Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?:
    [QUOTE]I hope not, but if they blow this and for the record I dont think they will he could be out.
    Posted by mickeypro[/QUOTE]

    Thanks for your 5 posts mickeypro. Nice of you to show up now. We truly are lacking guys like you to start threads to keep the negative conversation going. How many screennames do you actually have?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?:
    [QUOTE]Francona in my opinion is a lousy field manager and has always been one.  Yes, he is good in the clubhouse, keeps the pressure away from the players, handles the press well and all that.  However, as a strategist he leaves a lot to be desired.  He is wedded to a station-to-station philosophy that only results in us usually leading the league in hitting into double plays.  He is reluctant to bunt, hit and run and move runners in general and what's even worse he is slow to pull a struggling pitcher out of a game and is also stubborn to a fault. I know this is not going to sit too well with some here any more than it does with some posters on another board I frequent, but I really believe that unless he and Epstein find work elsewhere next season we will be talking this same stuff come September next season...and the season after that.
    Posted by seabeachfred[/QUOTE]

    Tough to be in a playoff hunt year after year after year. Yes lets fire Tito and Epstein.Lets get someone way better.Now go frequent somewhere else and stay there.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?

    Regardless of where team ends up 2011 season, Epstein needs to be fired for Lackey and Crawford contracts and a pitiful starting pitching development.

    As for Tito, this team needs a better field manager who doesn't coddle veterans and demands his union members come to work in shape and ready to play the game with a respect for the game or some time in the doghouse.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?

    Its true to a degree... because Tito is a "players manager" he is not on their tales about anything. 

    Is it possible Tito is at his best when managing a lessor team? Perhaps he is at his best getting average players to be their best.

    He has proven he is not good at managing a bunch of all*stars who already have their payday.

    Interesting.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?:
    [QUOTE]When you listened to FOX, ESPN, YES, and NESN baseball game announcers during this season, at some point they all state that Boston does not sacrifice or play smallball like other teams do. It is not their overall strategy. At some point one would think that if the announcers are aware of this fact that those in this forum would become aware of it also. Blame it on ownership, Bill James, Moneyball but why blame it entirely on Tito. That is not logical.
    Posted by BeaconHill19[/QUOTE]

    I agree with the moneyball comment..The problem Im seeing lately is that they rely way too much on stats and charts and not enough "old school" managing..There has to be a balance...EX; Its OK to bat a RH batter against a LHP, but not if that RHB has a sub 200 avg against said pitcher..Unfortunately they still bat said RH batter because the numbers say a RHB has a better chance to hit a LHP...Sorry, but if you bury your face in all these numbers and charts you miss whats actually going on around you..Im far from a Tito basher, but a lot of his moves lately are real head-scratchers...
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job? : Tough to be in a playoff hunt year after year after year. Yes lets fire Tito and Epstein.Lets get someone way better.Now go frequent somewhere else and stay there.
    Posted by donrd4[/QUOTE]

    Get the cobwebs out donnie boy.  The team has gone into the tank this year; they were not prepared to start the season either physically or mentally, and your hero FrancoMa already has cost the team numerous games with his mindless moves in the dugout.  This is the same thing that happened in 2008 and 2009, the team blowing a lead and falling down at the worst time.  Yes, those two should be canned.  We need a manager with a little bit of fire, and one who will demand accountability instead of acting like a nursemaid.  All that is missing from Francona's tool box is a brain that functions and all that's missing from Boy Blunder is competence.  If anyone is to frequent somewhere else let it me you because you don't seem to know barf from branola.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from pschuller. Show pschuller's posts

    Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?:
    [QUOTE]If they do.... it will make a lot of people here happy..... until 2 weeks into the new managers tenure, when they start calling for his firing.
    Posted by athens7676[/QUOTE]


    Typical dismissive comment from Francona apologist. The great majority of those who would like to see the RS change managers base their points of view on hard data (e.g. RS have the lowest number of sacrifice bunts in the league), even if you don't like the conclusions they draw from it.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BeaconHill19. Show BeaconHill19's posts

    Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?

    There is a good reason why the Sox have the lowest number of sacrifice bunts in the league. It could be the Bill James philosophy that the are adhering to that the percentages state that you do not give up the out when you have a good offense. These principles are based on statistics over the long run. Tito was hired to adhere to this Moneyball / Bill James philosophy. How many times do you see a hit instead of a bunt and forget about your love of sacrifice bunts? I don't play the 20-20 game after the game result is final, that is disingenuous and cheating. Shouldn't Tito manage the way that he was hired to do?
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pschuller. Show pschuller's posts

    Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?

    It's just one example, high on your BeaconHill, and even then you fail to understand the context. It's the devotion to managing by the numbers/concepts that is problematic. Managing a game is by definition situational--you can't just go with what statistics say to do. A computer can do that; a manager is paid to be GUIDED by the stats and to make clever, informed, even intuitive calls. Always going righty-righty, always pitching Bard in the 8th, even after he has struggled many times in a row, always patting Crawford down the line-up instead of trying him somewhere else, the list goes on. He is just too rote and uncreative. Is he the reason the Sox have underperformed this year? Who knows, but he sure is no genius of a manager, and if you are going to invest as much as the Sox have in player personnel, it seems as though you might want a first rate manager too.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?

    Is it Tito's fault that Lackey is terrible, Buch broke his back, and Dice-K had Tommy John Surgery? 

    They have a Team ERA of 5.98 for the month of September.   It's hard to win when the team is giving up 6 earn runs a game.

    Lackey's ERA for September is 8.78.

    The team's batting average is down to 265 for September (279 for the season).
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job? : Typical dismissive comment from Francona apologist. The great majority of those who would like to see the RS change managers base their points of view on hard data (e.g. RS have the lowest number of sacrifice bunts in the league), even if you don't like the conclusions they draw from it.
    Posted by pschuller[/QUOTE]

    The sacrifice bunts are a complete non-issue.  The Red Sox are always near the bottom in that number and it goes to the organization's offensive philosophy supported by its research.  If Tito led the league in bunts that would get him fired.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Diamondtalk. Show Diamondtalk's posts

    Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?

    Shaughnessy sez     .........................................



    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/dan_shaughnessy/09/18/boston.red.sox/index.html#ixzz1YPeBYKP3
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from attic-dan. Show attic-dan's posts

    Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?

        There is an old baseball axiom "teams that play for one run, is usually all they get". You would be surprised by the number of times the winning team scores more runs in a given inning, then the losing team does the whole game.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from tc25. Show tc25's posts

    Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?:
    [QUOTE]Francona in my opinion is a lousy field manager and has always been one.  Yes, he is good in the clubhouse, keeps the pressure away from the players, handles the press well and all that.  However, as a strategist he leaves a lot to be desired.  He is wedded to a station-to-station philosophy that only results in us usually leading the league in hitting into double plays.  He is reluctant to bunt, hit and run and move runners in general and what's even worse he is slow to pull a struggling pitcher out of a game and is also stubborn to a fault. I know this is not going to sit too well with some here any more than it does with some posters on another board I frequent, but I really believe that unless he and Epstein find work elsewhere next season we will be talking this same stuff come September next season...and the season after that.
    Posted by seabeachfred[/QUOTE]
    The Sox have a 170 million dollar payroll, now by the time you pay Theo, Tito, & the rest of the salaried employees it  has got to be over 200 million. Its time for a change, whatever it is its not working & in the business world its what have you done for me lately. This is a business no matter what you say & the finished product is substandard, that why you make a change
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from tjwoods. Show tjwoods's posts

    Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?

    Somebody has to. If not, then the fans need to boycott Fenway for a week so management and owners gets the message.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox playing Tito out of a job?:
    [QUOTE]Is it Tito's fault that Lackey is terrible, Buch broke his back, and Dice-K had Tommy John Surgery?  They have a Team ERA of 5.98 for the month of September.   It's hard to win when the team is giving up 6 earn runs a game. Lackey's ERA for September is 8.78. The team's batting average is down to 265 for September (279 for the season).
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover[/QUOTE]

    Furthermore, supporting DWL, is it Francona's fault that:
    • Youkilis has suffered through injuries all year it seems
    • Gonzalez has not be the same since the All-Star break, except maybe for about a one week period.
    • Crawford has totally underacheived in 2011
    • Reddick is the best option for the RF job and Drew appears to have disappeared for the remainder of the season
    • That he is forced to start Wakefield
    • That he is forced to start Weiland (although not today with Bedard being ready tomorrow)
    • That Albers has self-imploded during the 2nd half of the season
    • That Bard lost his control
    • That Miller could never find his control
    • That Jenks disappeared after just a short time with the team
    • That Darnall McDonald bats under the Mendoza line
    Is this an indictment of the Sox organization or the players themselves...I put most of the blame squarely on the players!

    For those trying to blame Theo for this...he did acquire Bedard at the trade deadline...what else do the naysayers suggest he should have done??
     
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