Are the Sox rebuilding?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Are the Sox rebuilding?

    The lead story in this site this morning says that Youk is a major bargaining chip as the Sox begin to rebuild.

    So my question is, are the Sox rebuilding?  To me, rebuilding means taking a step backward, scrapping most of what you've got because it didn't work and starting over.  What this team had was working but fell apart in September due to injuries, lack of conditioning, and a clubhouse malaise.  

    The talent was and is there.  Rather than rebuild I'd rather see the team recognize that they had the best record in baseball through August, recognize what wasn't working, tweak what wasn't working, and move forward. 

    Other opinions? 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from jackyldo. Show jackyldo's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    I think it's not rebuilding  but reshaping..

    Part of that is  molding a team out of 25 personalities...
    If Youk and Els  which had  major friction  all season  can't co-exist     what  do you do  let  clubhouse side with one or the other?

    Seeing  Pedey playing at Disney with Either     wouldn't he be a nice addition ?

    The main talent is there and    buy  moving some pieces  for "better" pieces  that is reshaping.

    I myself would keep Youk     he is a lunch pail    dirt   dog   that's played hurt  .. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    IMO Ethier would just be another overpriced LHB in the OF jack...Pass
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    Aughhhh.  Most of what went on in that clubhouse was the result of overpaid, spoiled athletes thinking that the world revolves around them. 

    C'mon, guys.  We all have to work and we all have to deal with personalities in the workplace that we don't particularly like.  But we do it (frequently/mostly) for the money.  You're getting millions of dollars to play a game.  Is it asking too much that you TRY to get along and TRY to think before you speak??

    I, like just about everyone else here, have absolutely no, zero, nada, idea of what goes on inside the clubhouse, but the players and the FO do.  If there's one person or two people who are the problem, I say jettison them - and I don't care how they spell their name. 

    As far as I can see the biggest problem this year was clubhouse chemistry, and that's something that can be more damaging to a club than a SS who makes 30 errors a season.  A team has to want to win for one another and if that feeling doesn't exist then all the talent in baseball isn't going to make up for it. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    The Red Sox want to replenish the farm system without giving away currently productive players under team control. That's the tension that provides no easy answers.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?:
    [QUOTE]I think it's not rebuilding  but reshaping.. Part of that is  molding a team out of 25 personalities... If Youk and Els  which had  major friction  all season  can't co-exist     what  do you do  let  clubhouse side with one or the other? Seeing  Pedey playing at Disney with Either     wouldn't he be a nice addition ? The main talent is there and    buy  moving some pieces  for "better" pieces  that is reshaping. I myself would keep Youk     he is a lunch pail    dirt   dog   that's played hurt  .. 
    Posted by jackyldo[/QUOTE]

    Well put. Reshaping is a great way to view it. Tweaking. The Sox are not rebuilding because they don't need to rebuild, but rather rework the clubhouse and making it right again. Reshaping the team in search of better chemistry.

    The Sox will be just fine next season. The pitching staff will not all fall apart at once again like this Sept. And their conditioning will be much improved across the board.

    Lots of guys played hurt. Remember guys like Damon and Nixon? But they were let go to try and better the team. Youk is not the only guy who plays hurt. And sometimes that is not a plus, but rather a neg. He might be a good trading chip depending on what happens with Ortiz.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    They aren't rebuilding.  They have a good core, money, and some tradeable vets and/or prospects that they could use to reshape their roster.  They have some items to address (trade Lowrie or Youk, etc. and re-sign Papi and Wake, etc.), but overall I don't think they're far off from fielding a very good team.  Call me optimistic I guess, but I think having a new GM that won't be afraid to shake things up is a good thing. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenwellforpresident. Show greenwellforpresident's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    I don't think it's possible to justify going from the best offense in baseball one year to rebuilding the next.  I'd like to see them give some starting spots to unproven prospects next year.  Lavarnway, Iglesias, Middlebrooks may not be Rookie of the Year, but a little diversity would be good and they would likely add some energy to the team.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rutland76. Show Rutland76's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    Peter Abraham overstated the problem by saying "rebuilding".
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?:
    [QUOTE]Peter Abraham overstated the problem by saying "rebuilding".
    Posted by Rutland76[/QUOTE]

    Thank you.  I think that was more of my point - that once again the Boston media inserted an innuendo intended to stir the pot. 

    This team, and by association it's fans, have enough to think about without the media roiling the waters even more.
     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rutland76. Show Rutland76's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    Do we have any stats on how many roster changes are made per year on the average MLB team? My guess is that 3-6 is normal.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from beavis. Show beavis's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    retooling
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?:
    [QUOTE]I think it's not rebuilding  but reshaping.. Part of that is  molding a team out of 25 personalities... If Youk and Els  which had  major friction  all season  can't co-exist     what  do you do  let  clubhouse side with one or the other? Seeing  Pedey playing at Disney with Either     wouldn't he be a nice addition ? The main talent is there and    buy  moving some pieces  for "better" pieces  that is reshaping. I myself would keep Youk     he is a lunch pail    dirt   dog   that's played hurt  .. 
    Posted by jackyldo[/QUOTE]

    I strongly agree.  2011 Sox team was a WS favorite before that horrible collapse.  There isn't any neccessity to rebuild this team but to reshape some part.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenwellforpresident. Show greenwellforpresident's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?:
    [QUOTE]Do we have any stats on how many roster changes are made per year on the average MLB team? My guess is that 3-6 is normal.
    Posted by Rutland76[/QUOTE]
    I'd say that's even a little low.  The sox had 7 roster changes to start the year this year.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from tetonman50. Show tetonman50's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Are the Sox rebuilding? : Well put. Reshaping is a great way to view it. Tweaking. The Sox are not rebuilding because they don't need to rebuild, but rather rework the clubhouse and making it right again. Reshaping the team in search of better chemistry. The Sox will be just fine next season. The pitching staff will not all fall apart at once again like this Sept. And their conditioning will be much improved across the board. Lots of guys played hurt. Remember guys like Damon and Nixon? But they were let go to try and better the team. Youk is not the only guy who plays hurt. And sometimes that is not a plus, but rather a neg. He might be a good trading chip depending on what happens with Ortiz.
    Posted by antiqueman1[/QUOTE]

     Of course I realize we are specifically talking about the players so I agree that "rebuild" does seem to be more than what is necessary, but I also think "tweaking" is less than what is needed....

     With a new GM in place, and at some point a new field manager we have already surpassed what I would call "tweaking"...    Clearly the mind set that will exist for next years team will be a serious "rebuild" over this year's mind set no matter who all the players are.

     IMHO I don't think the team ( players)  as it currently is constructed can be just "tweaked" next year into being a realistic favorite in the post season.   I just think we have too many areas that need more than just "tweaking" to fix.

      But I do feel a new mind set from management that "rebuilds" the professional attitude of  the players  obviously some more than others, will result in a huge improvement.  The better that job is done the less "tweaking" will be needed the next year or two.
     I guess what I am suggesting is what needs "rebuilding" in Boston is the building of a winning attitude. 

     IMO that starts with the owner(s) being more involved and making it very clear what their expectations are. That should start with making clear that the wild card route behind the Yankees each year to the post season is unacceptable.
     
        The new GM must then keep those expectations in sharp focus and make sure he does all he can to make sure the new field manager reasonably has the tools he needs to meet those expectations all season long.

       The new field manager needs to make sure he uses all the strengths of the team every inning, to try to win every game, all season.......  Yes that means that sometimes a bunt, walk, hit and run, or stolen base, late in a game can result in a key run, instead of doing nothing, while you hope for a home run.

       And lastly we especially need to rebuild the attitudes of some of the players who seem to not understand that being a professional baseball player means you need to act like an adult, and train 12 months out of a year.    

      Unlike 99% of us working slobs there will be plenty of time to relax and enjoy what life has thrown their way once their playing days are over, typically shy of their 40th birthday.

      So when you look at it this way to me it suggests that a year or two of tweaking a few positions along with a serious rebuilding top to bottom of attitude, is the ticket. It's NOT a total "rebuild" but it is a lot of "reshaping"   
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    when you have the second biggest payroll on avg every year you shouldn't ever have to rebuild.  sooooo NO.

    Unless of course we are talking about management, then yes.  I agree with what Jackyldo said, reshaping. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from GhostofTito. Show GhostofTito's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    Ethier is 30 years old, injury prone and left handed.
    Just because he's pals with Pedroia, doesn't make him a great addition.
    Pass!

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rutland76. Show Rutland76's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?:
    [QUOTE]when you have the second biggest payroll on avg every year you shouldn't ever have to rebuild.  sooooo NO. Unless of course we are talking about management, then yes.  I agree with what Jackyldo said, reshaping. 
    Posted by ctredsoxfanhugh[/QUOTE]

    A high payroll may be indicative of the salaries of a 4-8 players. If you had to make many changes to the other 17-21 players on the roster then that could be called rebuilding.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from sindarin-erebor. Show sindarin-erebor's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    Agree that Ethier would not be a good fit....age, LH hitter.

    Although I also agree that we don't need to rebuild, we do need to make significant changes. Becoming much deeper and healthier in starting pitching, a RH bat in RF, Catching, improved defense on the left side of the infield, a new and effective approach on the medical staff and in the required conditioning of all players, do whatever it takes to fix the character of the team in the clubhouse are all required IMO.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Are the Sox rebuilding? : A high payroll may be indicative of the salaries of a 4-8 players. If you had to make many changes to the other 17-21 players on the roster then that could be called rebuilding.
    Posted by Rutland76[/QUOTE]

    Yes but the Sox also have a handful of players signed to team friendly deals like Pedroia/Lester/Buccholz/Youkilis and youngers players still on team control for a few years Bard/Ellsbury.  

    This doesn't go without saying the team has holes and needs, but rebuilding....no.  I view rebuilding as completely reshaping the team, you can't do that unless you get rid of the core of the team.  Trade Youkilis, Trade Ellsbury, Trade Beckett, Trade Buccholz etc etc.

    F.O. moves aside I haven't see ONE restructuring move to the "team" 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from WesternOregon. Show WesternOregon's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    I'm prone toward building a team with an "up-the-middle" spine (C, P, SS/2B, CF) with as many tools as possible that has very productive corner infielders and outfielders which are interchangeable and possess complimentary (field, throw, run, hit for average, hit for power) tools. Money doesn't seem to be an issue in Boston BUT long-term existing contracts are handcuffs in "re-building" this team.

    If the "spine" now has only two solid members who comprise two thirds of the top of the order (Dustin Pedroia and Jacoby Ellsbury) the corners need to let them shine. Adrian Gonzalez can and will do that. Carl Crawford unfortunately is a misfit but at his pay rate a fixture, bat him first? Kevin Youkilis needs to exit and although I appreciate his intensity, I also fear it. He's not a healthy player to keep.

    Think what you will, Josh Beckett is one piece that needs to go. In fact I believe the entire rotation needs to go. Just pick ONE to stay. Trade the rest.

    Daniel Bard appears to have the mettle and youth worth keeping...maybe

    Everyone else? See ya!

    If I do the math correctly, I see six players on the current roster as the "nucleus" and nineteen being expendable. Given their current contracts and the availability of positional players...I'd say the Sox are starting over.



     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    I think Beckett has a lot of trade value... plenty of teams would take a chance on him. Texas may be willing to take him on.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from never1954. Show never1954's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    I read these boards everyday but seldom respond to any threads but this one caught my eye.  Many posters put a great deal of blame for lousy contracts and lousy play on the GM the Manager and the coaches.  With that being said it is my view that if you are replacing at least those 3 major contributors to the success or failure of the team that this must be considered a rebuilding years.  We are lucky in our case that rebuilding does not and should not equate to lousy baseball but rather different views and approaches to the game.  Rebuilding yes, losing baseball no.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rutland76. Show Rutland76's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?:
    [QUOTE]I think Beckett has a lot of trade value... plenty of teams would take a chance on him. Texas may be willing to take him on.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]


     

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