Are the Sox rebuilding?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenapplesplatters. Show greenapplesplatters's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?:
    [QUOTE]I think basically these last half dozen posts here are all in general agreement.....  The final meltdown this year was from a accumulation of far more factors then just beer and chicken. But in the end management must accept the responsibility for failure.  Management sets the tone, and expectations.  Management is also responsible to find back up plans, and most of all to pay attention to details.   Bottom line it's management's job to find ways to deal with whatever needs to be dealt with no matter how hard it is to find solutions.  When I say this, in no way am I suggesting that management can always find those solutions..... But to me there were a lot of red flags all year, from opening day that this team was not as advertised. I honestly feel that the owners and upper management managed to believe their own hype and convince themselves that playing the regular season was just a formality for this team ahead of the post season.     No doubt that mistake will not be repeated next year.   What is the responsibility of the players?  IMHO to act as professionals, adults, and put team ahead of self.  As well as give 100% .......  Also to come to spring training in top shape ready to play ball on the professional level.   If they don't then it's managements job to deal with them.  I would be very surprised if that is not made clear long before spring training begins next year.
    Posted by tetonman50[/QUOTE]


    I share your basic opinion, but I'm not as convinced as you are that all these things are so easily fixed--mainly due to the fact that I'm convinced ownership really doesn't 'get it' as to how many things need to be fixed. To wit: it seemed to take John Henry by complete surprise--- during his spontaneous visit to Mazz and Felger's show---when Mazz informed him that, despite the fact that it might not have been him, Werner, or Larry who directly leaked the dirt on Tito, that it was still his responsibility because whoever leaked it works for him. He was dumbfounded, obviously a novel concept to him. 

    Things like that have to make you at least consider that there's bigger problems over there. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rutland76. Show Rutland76's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    Where is there a shred of evidence that the "leaks" came from the front office?  Why do you make such an assumption?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    tetonman50

    I do not agree with your "leadership is everything," especially not in MLB. 

    The proximate cause of the September collapse was the pitching went south, but for the previous five months the Sox were the best team in the AL, even with a so-so pitching staff (9th best ERA in AL before it went bad).  I mean, how could Francona and Theo be so successful for five months and at the same time completely bereft of leadership skills? 

    Now here's an anecdote for you.  On 31 July 2006 the Sox were 63-41 and headed for 98 wins.  But in August 2006 they went 9-21, including a five game series at Fenway when the Yankees took all five, mainly by just clobbering the Sox sorry pitching (starters and bullpen).  Now that was a collapse for the ages with the same manager, GM, owner, president, etc as in 2011. 

    So of course the Sox did a completely rebuilding job in the offseason. Francona of course was the first to go because he only knew how to "rearrange the deck chairs."  Theo just quit and moved to Florida.  The new GM dumped Manny (bad attitude), Ortiz (too heavy), Beckett (ERA over 5), Lowell (they were forced to take him along with Beckett), and a slew of other horrible performers. 

    Of course, that didn't happen.  Practically everyone stayed, and in 2007 won the WS.

    Sox fan in Illinois, I disagree.  The Sox have to do the same kinds of offseason things they have always had to do--decide on who to keep, who to let go, who to maybe acquire, who to move up from the minors, etc.  

    If the Sox keep the 2011 lineup, which basically means re-signing Ortiz and picking up the option on Scutaro, they will bring back the MLB leaders in runs scored.  Not too shabby.

    As for pitching, Beckett, Lester, and Buchholz are a good place to begin building the rotation and Papelbon (assuming they re-sign him) and Bard are a very good way to begin building the bullpen.   
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rutland76. Show Rutland76's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    A thread based on Semantics. What a waste.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    Youk is no major bargaining chip. Old in baseball years, coming off 2nd straight injury year and one year away from FA. Red Sox need to keep Youk and take care of netting the draft pick if Youk declines arbitration as I expect he will. YOUK's trade value is at it's lowest point in years.   
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from tetonman50. Show tetonman50's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    Maxbialystock,  
     I am only stating my opinion......... No problem if you disagree with it.....  But let me at least be clearer with my comment about Francona only "rearranging the deck chairs".  

      When I said that what I was trying to say was that by time Sept came around the shear number of serious injuries and other problems involving  so many key players left him virtually no workable options to deal with all the problems.

     
      I want to make clear I have deep respect for Francona himself and do not question HIS leadership skills, beyond him probably being just too nice a guy.
    I do believe however that team management and ownership above Francona was largely asleep at the switch all season.
     
     
      The pitching as you say may have finally gone south in Sept but it started heading in that direction much sooner in the year as first Dice K, then Buchholz, were gone for the year, Lester for a short while, and Lacky we now know was pitching ( if you can call what he mostly did this year, pitching) with all sorts of problems physical and otherwise. I am not even addressing the injuries in the Bull Pen, or to so many position players.

     
      Clearly when most of your pitching staff is either injured, or not performing anywhere near what you expected, for whatever the reason, management must step in and do something.  Just as clearly any help Theo got for Francona in this area did not work out.  As coincidently so many of his FA signings over the years as well.  

     
        While I do stand by my comments that strong leadership and involved management are very key, I in no way am suggesting that the players and how they execute their responsibilities are any less key. You need both.

       But as greenapplesplatters mentions a few posts above here in the end no matter what the problem, no matter what the issue, from a player with a bad attitude, to a player on the DL, to leaking stories to the press, in the end it's ownership that owns the problem, and it's his management's job to effectively deal with it/them.........

        It's my feeling that John Henry first became aware of the significance of our many problems and involved himself in them after the season ended. 
        I am betting he is a smart enough man not to make that mistake again next year.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    Anytime that you replace the GM and the Manager in the same year has to be called rebuilding.  Certainly the direction of this team will change beginning next year.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox rebuilding?:
    [QUOTE]Maxbialystock,    I am only stating my opinion......... No problem if you disagree with it.....  But let me at least be clearer with my comment about Francona only "rearranging the deck chairs".     When I said that what I was trying to say was that by time Sept came around the shear number of serious injuries and other problems involving  so many key players left him virtually no workable options to deal with all the problems.     I want to make clear I have deep respect for Francona himself and do not question HIS leadership skills, beyond him probably being just too nice a guy. I do believe however that team management and ownership above Francona was largely asleep at the switch all season.       The pitching as you say may have finally gone south in Sept but it started heading in that direction much sooner in the year as first Dice K, then Buchholz, were gone for the year, Lester for a short while, and Lacky we now know was pitching ( if you can call what he mostly did this year, pitching) with all sorts of problems physical and otherwise. I am not even addressing the injuries in the Bull Pen, or to so many position players.     Clearly when most of your pitching staff is either injured, or not performing anywhere near what you expected, for whatever the reason, management must step in and do something.  Just as clearly any help Theo got for Francona in this area did not work out.  As coincidently so many of his FA signings over the years as well.         While I do stand by my comments that strong leadership and involved management are very key, I in no way am suggesting that the players and how they execute their responsibilities are any less key. You need both.    But as greenapplesplatters mentions a few posts above here in the end no matter what the problem, no matter what the issue, from a player with a bad attitude, to a player on the DL, to leaking stories to the press, in the end it's ownership that owns the problem, and it's his management's job to effectively deal with it/them.........     It's my feeling that John Henry first became aware of the significance of our many problems and involved himself in them after the season ended.      I am betting he is a smart enough man not to make that mistake again next year.
    Posted by tetonman50[/QUOTE]

    tetonman,

    John Henry is a very successful businessman and while one can find fault. In his now almost ten years of ownership, he has delivered two champoinships, four ALCS appearances after an 86 year drought and rebuilt the organizatios entire infrastructure...In so doing he's improved what was already a very strong brand "The Boston Red Sox Baseball Club". One of his crowning achievements IMHO was that he saved what many consider to be a national monument from the wrecking ball (Fenway) with some very creative renovations in the interest of creating new revenue sources to he could compete with the money rich Yankees of New York.

    As the priciple owner his job is to increase shareholder value by implenting a plan that generates top line income with an eye on managing expenses to deliver to budgeted profit goals...Which he has done with aplomb...Part of what he understands is that in the entertainment buisness you have to have a product compelling enough to warrant your target audience to spend their hard earned disposable income dollars on your product with the hopes of creating customer loyalties...In the buisness of baseball that means winning...win and they will come...

    Like every good organization and buisness the ownership group or individual must surround himself with competent managers who are seen as experts in their respective field. Mangers that understand and buy into the  company's mission statement. Managers that have the prerequisit skill set to perform thier primary job functions at or above expectations of performance....

    That's where Luccino and Esptein come into to play. While I agree that accountability rest with him. His senior managers are the ones making the day to day decisions, they are also the ones that make presentations to the board for approval and like any good CEO Henry allows his managers the autonomy to do their jobs and thus creates and envoirment where is top guys buy in...

    that said, I am pretty confident that Henry understand and will act in the best interest of the Boston Red Sox Baseball Club and I trust that adjustments will be made and perhaps the best news is that Luccino will be charged with having a greater oversight of the baseball operation team as it was when they bought the club with Cherington reporting to him...

    Time will tell if by increasing Epsteins power and repositioning Luccino was at the heart of our teams demise in the last few years...Is the teacher better than the pupil?
     

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