Are we doing permanent damage to our kids by ...,

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Are we doing permanent damage to our kids by ...,

    Putting them in as starters CLEARLY BEFORE THEY WERE READY.


    We could be doing irreperable damage to their psyches and cementing bad habits!


    I'm so far beyond concerned that it's no longer a joke!!!


    A change must be made!!!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Are we doing permanent damage to our kids by ...,

    These kids WILL NOT turn things around on their own, and the instruction they are receiving may be doing more harm than good.

    I don't care about winning, & haven't for some time!!!!!!

    There is an underlying root problem as to why the entire team, including vets, are universally tanking.  We may be setting these kids back years, & we most certainly are lowering their market value with each passing day!  This could be devastating intrying to package some in a trade.  

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BogieAt12oclock. Show BogieAt12oclock's posts

    Re: Are we doing permanent damage to our kids by ...,

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    These kids WILL NOT turn things around on their own, and the instruction they are receiving may be doing more harm than good.

    I don't care about winning, & haven't for some time!!!!!!

    There is an underlying root problem as to why the entire team, including vets, are universally tanking.  We may be setting these kids back years, & we most certainly are lowering their market value with each passing day!  This could be devastating intrying to package some in a trade.  



    Well, this year taught us all something; don't take farm system rankings seriously. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: Are we doing permanent damage to our kids by ...,

    Maybe a new hitting coach?  The one we have now has been sick half the season. 

    Personally, what's a hitting instructor who probably didn't bat .250 during his career going to tell anyone anything.  But, they seem to be the in-thing.  Like another piglet sucking on the ownership nipple.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Are we doing permanent damage to our kids by ...,

    I'm convinced we are doing long term damage to these kids!

    There must be a change!!!  " Give them time to work it out," is burying these boys!!!!!

    They are clearly NOT GOING TO WORK IT OUT!!!!

    Only harm can come from this!!!!!

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Are we doing permanent damage to our kids by ...,

    These kids are going from bad to worse to worserest

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BogieAt12oclock. Show BogieAt12oclock's posts

    Re: Are we doing permanent damage to our kids by ...,

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    These kids are going from bad to worse to worserest



    By the time they're just mediocre, they won't be 'kids' anymore.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Are we doing permanent damage to our kids by ...,

    In response to ampoule's comment:

    Maybe a new hitting coach?  The one we have now has been sick half the season. 

    Personally, what's a hitting instructor who probably didn't bat .250 during his career going to tell anyone anything.  But, they seem to be the in-thing.  Like another piglet sucking on the ownership nipple.


    Colburnn was a career .289 hitter.

    But you do realize that the best hitting coaches and best pitching coaches typically were mediocre players at best during their playing days, and many of the top ones didn't make the majors or had nothing more than a cup of coffee in the bigs.

    In fact, Dave Duncan is considered to be one of the best pitching coaches ever, and he wasn't even a pitcher.

     

     

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Are we doing permanent damage to our kids by ...,

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    Putting them in as starters CLEARLY BEFORE THEY WERE READY.

     

    We could be doing irreperable damage to their psyches and cementing bad habits!

     

    I'm so far beyond concerned that it's no longer a joke!!!

     

    A change must be made!!!



    The irony of this thread is that this board was littered with threads just merciless in ripping the Red Sox for not bring up their kids quick enough and holding them back.

     

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Are we doing permanent damage to our kids by ...,

    In response to royf19's comment:

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    Putting them in as starters CLEARLY BEFORE THEY WERE READY.

     

    We could be doing irreperable damage to their psyches and cementing bad habits!

     

    I'm so far beyond concerned that it's no longer a joke!!!

     

    A change must be made!!!



    The irony of this thread is that this board was littered with threads just merciless in ripping the Red Sox for not bring up their kids quick enough and holding them back.

     

     

    well Roy maybe the board folks had somewhat high expectations considering all the squaking some do on this site about how great the farm system is and how we are loaded with prospects...well loaded is actually a good word to describe it...

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from az55. Show az55's posts

    Re: Are we doing permanent damage to our kids by ...,

    How do you get damaged by playing and learning as u go along?

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Are we doing permanent damage to our kids by ...,

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    I'm convinced we are doing long term damage to these kids!

    There must be a change!!!  " Give them time to work it out," is burying these boys!!!!!

    They are clearly NOT GOING TO WORK IT OUT!!!!

    Only harm can come from this!!!!!



    they are harming me with their play...

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Are we doing permanent damage to our kids by ...,

    In response to royf19's comment:

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    Putting them in as starters CLEARLY BEFORE THEY WERE READY.

     

    We could be doing irreperable damage to their psyches and cementing bad habits!

     

    I'm so far beyond concerned that it's no longer a joke!!!

     

    A change must be made!!!



    The irony of this thread is that this board was littered with threads just merciless in ripping the Red Sox for not bring up their kids quick enough and holding them back.

     

     




    To be honest, I was definitely one who wanted to see the kids, I.e. JBJ, XB, & Vaz, but I could not have been more wrong!

    I now believe it's beyond clear that none of these kids are close to being ready!

    I will also admit to being one who called for patience.

    For me, it's now all about whether we are stunting their growth, & destroying trade value with these kids.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Are we doing permanent damage to our kids by ...,

    Baseball is a difficult, complicated game , especially at it's highest level.   It is not nearly as simple as football or basketball. Hitting a pitch thrown by a major league pitcher is extremely hard to do. This is not about psychology. No one is being permanently damaged. Either you can hit major league pitching or you can't. Sometimes you can figure it out , but it takes some time to do so. We do need to have some ( but not unlimited ) patience with these " kids."   

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Are we doing permanent damage to our kids by ...,

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to royf19's comment:

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    Putting them in as starters CLEARLY BEFORE THEY WERE READY.

     

    We could be doing irreperable damage to their psyches and cementing bad habits!

     

    I'm so far beyond concerned that it's no longer a joke!!!

     

    A change must be made!!!



    The irony of this thread is that this board was littered with threads just merciless in ripping the Red Sox for not bring up their kids quick enough and holding them back.


    To be honest, I was definitely one who wanted to see the kids, I.e. JBJ, XB, & Vaz, but I could not have been more wrong!

    I now believe it's beyond clear that none of these kids are close to being ready!

    I will also admit to being one who called for patience.

    For me, it's now all about whether we are stunting their growth, & destroying trade value with these kids.



    Of course a kid can also be ready but still need an adjustment period. For instance, although he struggled in the clutch, Bogaerts was hitting .304 on June 3. That shows he was ready. The problem is that pitchers adjusted and he's been slow in adjusting (basically to the outside break ball). It's a guess to know if more at-bats in teh minors would have helped him adjust better or not.

    I think it's easy to forget that not every future All-Star hits the ground running. Many have been mediocre or worse as young rookies and not all learning curves are the same.

    One thing, however, that I think we should have learned is that Sox might have been on the right track by being overly cautious with prospects.

     

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Are we doing permanent damage to our kids by ...,

    In response to Traven2's comment:

    Same old thing. Smart ones vs. trolls.  Trouble is that the smart ones never realize that they are being trolled. How stupid.



    OK PIKE :)  Thanks for looking out for us!  What would we all do without Don Quixote.... aka Pike ?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Are we doing permanent damage to our kids by ...,

    In response to Traven2's comment:

    Same old thing. Smart ones vs. trolls.  Trouble is that the smart ones never realize that they are being trolled. How stupid.




    I feel bad for Pike!  Can you even imagine the mania involved in consistently & single handedly storming the beaches of Normandy, knowing you will immediately to be cut to ribbons?

    Yet he keeps on storming.

    Talk about an exercise in futility???  The poor guy is so far beyond obsessed, it's truly disturbing. ?.....

    Move on Pike, think of your "well being......"

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Are we doing permanent damage to our kids by ...,

    Traven2,   We barely got to know ya!

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Are we doing permanent damage to our kids by ...,

    de la Rosa, Workman and Webster are definitely ML ready.

    I think Ranaudo, Owens, and Wright are ready too, but waiting is fine as well.

    Rodriguez, Escobar and others are close.

    I do not see any harm in letting these guys pitch. I'm not big on the whole, "they may lose their confidence and be permanently damaged by it" argument.

    Sox4ever

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Are we doing permanent damage to our kids by ...,

    Of course a kid can also be ready but still need an adjustment period. For instance, although he struggled in the clutch, Bogaerts was hitting .304 on June 3. That shows he was ready. The problem is that pitchers adjusted and he's been slow in adjusting (basically to the outside break ball). It's a guess to know if more at-bats in teh minors would have helped him adjust better or not.

    I think it's easy to forget that not every future All-Star hits the ground running. Many have been mediocre or worse as young rookies and not all learning curves are the same.

    One thing, however, that I think we should have learned is that Sox might have been on the right track by being overly cautious with prospects.

    It's always this way.  For each kid that breaks in well, there are probably 4 kids that struggle.  And it's physiology was well as mental.  The players don't hit their physical peak until around age 27.

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Are we doing permanent damage to our kids by ...,

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    de la Rosa, Workman and Webster are definitely ML ready.

    I think Ranaudo, Owens, and Wright are ready too, but waiting is fine as well.

    Rodriguez, Escobar and others are close.

    I do not see any harm in letting these guys pitch. I'm not big on the whole, "they may lose their confidence and be permanently damaged by it" argument.

    Sox4ever




    Pitchers seem to be a different story.  I agree with you on this.  As for the aforementioned 4 position players, most don't seem close.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Are we doing permanent damage to our kids by ...,

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    Of course a kid can also be ready but still need an adjustment period. For instance, although he struggled in the clutch, Bogaerts was hitting .304 on June 3. That shows he was ready. The problem is that pitchers adjusted and he's been slow in adjusting (basically to the outside break ball). It's a guess to know if more at-bats in teh minors would have helped him adjust better or not.

    I think it's easy to forget that not every future All-Star hits the ground running. Many have been mediocre or worse as young rookies and not all learning curves are the same.

    One thing, however, that I think we should have learned is that Sox might have been on the right track by being overly cautious with prospects.

    It's always this way.  For each kid that breaks in well, there are probably 4 kids that struggle.  And it's physiology was well as mental.  The players don't hit their physical peak until around age 27.

     




    [object HTMLDivElement]    The players don't hit their physical peak until around age 27.                                      Okay.    Then by age 29 they are starting to decline and are not worth signing to a six year contract?  That kind of narrows the window of success , does it not ? I guess we can always juggle the numbers to suit our own opinions.  In the end, the scoreboard tells the story. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Are we doing permanent damage to our kids by ...,

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    Of course a kid can also be ready but still need an adjustment period. For instance, although he struggled in the clutch, Bogaerts was hitting .304 on June 3. That shows he was ready. The problem is that pitchers adjusted and he's been slow in adjusting (basically to the outside break ball). It's a guess to know if more at-bats in teh minors would have helped him adjust better or not.

    I think it's easy to forget that not every future All-Star hits the ground running. Many have been mediocre or worse as young rookies and not all learning curves are the same.

    One thing, however, that I think we should have learned is that Sox might have been on the right track by being overly cautious with prospects.

    It's always this way.  For each kid that breaks in well, there are probably 4 kids that struggle.  And it's physiology was well as mental.  The players don't hit their physical peak until around age 27.

     



    [object HTMLDivElement]    The players don't hit their physical peak until around age 27.                                      Okay.    Then by age 29 they are starting to decline and are not worth signing to a six year contract?  That kind of narrows the window of success , does it not ? I guess we can always juggle the numbers to suit our own opinions.  In the end, the scoreboard tells the story. 



    I remember hearing when I was growing up that a player was in his peak between the ages 28 and 32. Looking at the numbers of a lot of players, excluding the steroid era, that seems pretty close, maybe 27-31. It is remarkable, however, at the number of players who have their last great year at 30 then quickly fade, either because of injuries or just decline, over the next three years.

    I ought to dig up a post I wrote back in 2009 on the subject.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Are we doing permanent damage to our kids by ...,

    I don't think we are doing permanent damage.  Were these guys rushed? yes, but it's not as if they were promoted from Single A straight to the majors and never made any adjustments along the way.

    Also keep in mind, if you believe someone was rushed and is in over their head then you can't really truly believe they don't have the ability to figure it out.  Sometimes when you figure it out, it's a click, a light bulb that goes off in your head.  I'd be willing to bet a few of our rookies have really good years next year and the other half show more evidence they are busts.

    Remember it's not uncommon for really good MLB players to struggle early in their MLB careers, even for a whole season.  And yes....it is also true that highly touted prospects never amount to anything.

    And it is also common for these guys to fall somewhere in between.  Look at Andrew Miller for example, he is a guy who has never lived up to his expectations but he's developed into one of the better relievers in the league.  The problem with the Sox is two fold.  A too many rookies to rely on, and I feel their struggles has unjustly turned everyone into skeptics of our system, have faith....yes some of these guys aren't going to pan out....but they aren't going to all bust and this isn't some kind of prospect doomsday scenario that you make it out to be.  But regardless, the Sox relied to heavily on their youth this year, that is evident.  Also, many of the veterans struggled as well, and even in games we played well we just had awful timing and couldn't hit with RISP.  We picked up Cespedes to add power and we picked up Craig who has had one of the highest avg's with RISP over the years.  With a few signings and/or a few trades plus some improvement for next years sophomores could render much much much better results in 2015.  

    If anything, the Sox are hurting themselves financially 5-6 years down the road by bringing these kids up early, but they aren't doing permanent damage. 

     
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