In Response to Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back? : Guys I know you love Tek and believe the team and staff could never do as well without him.  Just look at Texas "Napoli" and Detroit "Avila" both teams have new catchers who have more than one skill and look where they are.  Tek has had a great career but he is not a make or break decision as to whether our team will be successful.
Posted by craze4sox

In Response to Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back? : Tek doesn't have HOF numbers but you never know.
Posted by craze4sox

Hall of Fame voters would compare Varitek's offensive numbers to the numbers for other catchers.
Posted by Hfxsoxnut

In Response to Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back? : It might be because you are looking at only afew numbers: CS% and offense. Catching goes way beyond the surface.
Posted by moonslav59

Get rid of him
Posted by jackbu

In Response to Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back? : moon, I stated those were only "some" of the more important stats.  The HOF standards and monitor are two areas that currently rank a player in comparison to the average player that gets inducted.  Tek will be judged on many things including the fact he has "never hit 300" his overall ranking compared to retired and active catchers, Clutch Stats, hits with runners in scoring position along with other defensive areas.  Teks done a lot of good things for Boston and had a good career I was simply telling "bobbysu" he doesn't have HOF numbers. Detroit brought in two new catchers in Victor and Avila.  Napoli also didn't have any problem adapting to the Texas staff.  What I'm saying is Salty and Lav aren't any different, just less experienced which comes in time. How do you know taking Tek out of the equation won't help our team?  It's all we have seen for 15 years, a change could be just what we need.  Catching isn't just about being experienced, or saving 1/2 to a run a game.   Our problem is, since around 2007 when Tek began to decline, we have had mostly game calling and experience out of Tek.  I'm not saying all teams have a multi talented catcher but it certainly helps.  In 04 we won the WS and Tek had a solid year hitting 296.  In 07 he began to decline but still managed to help our offense with a 255 BA and some clutch hits.  From 2008 to present we have had little support and players brought in have had mediocre talent.  Until we find that "in the prime" Tek it won't help our club much.  Hopefully with a lot of hard work Lavarnway or Salty can be that guy.  Tek can't save our staff, our staff needs to be chosen correctly and perform up to their own standards regardless who catches them..  I wouldn't mind seeing Tek in some sort of coaching role but I don't feel we shouldn't bring him back as a player.  Let the youngsters fight it out, with the correct staff they should be just fine.  We shouldn't be comparing Salty and Lavarnways CERA stats to Tek, he has been in the league 15 years but unfortunately now has limited skills in other areas and should move on. 
Posted by craze4sox

harness, I'm curious about your take on this: which stat or metric best reflects who you think were the best pitchers last year and over the last 3 years? WAR or ERA? 2011  WAR top 10:     ERA top 10 Halliday           Kershaw Sabathia          Halliday Verlander         CLee Kershaw           Verlander C.Lee                Weaver D Haren            Lincecum CJ Wilson         Hamels J Weaver          Vogelsong Hernandez       Shields Bumgarner      Fister 2009-2011  WAR                     ERA Halliday         Wainwright Verlander      Halliday CLee               Kershaw Sabathia        Hernandez Hernandez    Vogelson Greinke          Lincecum Lincecum      CLee Haren            Cain Jimenez        Carpenter Lester            Weaver
Posted by moonslav59

In Response to Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back? : Too close to call.
Posted by harness

In Response to Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back? : So, maybe WAR is not as flawed as you thought  or ERA is more flawed than you thought? ERA needs to be adjusted for venue as you have been saying for a while now. ERA needs to be adjusted for defense behind the starter. ERA is greatly effected by the catcher, as we both have been saying for a long time ERA has several flaws, and so does WAR.  I think we both know that several stats (and metrics) can and should be used to judge pitchers. None by themselves tell the whole story. When I look at the 2009-2011 top 10. I think the WAR list is closer to who I think is better than the ERA list that favors NL pitchers in big home parks.
Posted by moonslav59

In Response to Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back? : Yes. All stats are flawed, just as all humans are. When I here someone make an outlandish statement, I have to question the source. And when I see a stat - any stat - take Lackey over Buch last year, I have to question that source as well.
Posted by harness

In Response to Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back? : There's some interesting stats coming into fashon, such as tERA and SIERA. Here's a look at the Sox starters...          tERA  SIERABeck 3.82   3.43 Lest  3.93   3.59 Buch 3.78   4.23 Wake 4.92  4.61 Lack  5.41  4.50 Miller 6.18  4.91
Posted by moonslav59

Timmy T-Ball is worse than his ERA says he was. 
Posted by 1958lesspaul

In Response to Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back? : There's some interesting stats coming into fashon, such as tERA and SIERA. Here's a look at the Sox starters...          tERA  SIERA Beck 3.82   3.43 Lest  3.93   3.59 Buch 3.78   4.23 Wake 4.92  4.61 Lack  5.41  4.50 Miller 6.18  4.91
Posted by moonslav59

In Response to Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back? : Of course it was not Salty's fault. Almsot the whole team played worse. The team lost with VTek as well (3-6) in September. Who knows if we lose less if tito had used VTek more down the stretch.
Posted by moonslav59

In Response to Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back? : I never want to see this useless, greedy bum in a Sox uniform again. And if they have a night for him, I hope it rains cats and dogs.
Posted by greenapplesplatters