1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrh1194. Show jrh1194's posts

    Re: AROD's Knee

    posted at 12/30/2011 5:18 PM EST

    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee:
    In Response to AROD's Knee : Huge long term contracts more often than not will and have buried a franchise at some point.   ARod, CC, Burnett and Teixeira are all perfect examples, just like our CC, Dice, Jenks, Lackey and many others over the years have been for our club.  I think the Yankees have made out quite well with CC, the guy has held up better than I ever expected.  I thought for sure David Wells name would come back to haunt them and maybe still will, but CC has given them some nice years.  Tex?  I was hoping the Sox would get him but I'm glad we didn't, I never expected him to become a below average hitter this quickly, even though the power and production are still there.  ARod has also had some good years but he will never pay the Yankees back for their investment. The Sox, Dice was a shot in the dark that cost us "big time" financially but we did get some nice return.  The problem is, not enough for the initial investment but hopefully he can make a nice return this season.  CC and Lackey?  Two of the worst pay outs any GM has ever made.  Although I believe CC will be an important part of our club next season the money was insane and like Lackey, no way we ever get the proper return on our investment.  Where are both the Yanks and Sox this off season?   Watching other teams like the Angels and Rangers make the same mistakes that brought us some success, but nothing close to what we expected.  Have we finally learned from our mistakes?   Hopefully because other teams have proved money doesn't buy championships like the old days.
    Posted by craze4sox


    Great post. The lack of any big moves by the Sox & Yankees this off season shows that they may have learned from their past mistakes. Both teams have invested a lot of money in free agents and gotten little in return recently. I don't think they will be making any Burnett or Lackey mistakes this year.
     

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: AROD's Knee

    posted at 12/30/2011 5:22 PM EST

    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee:
    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee : Great post. The lack of any big moves by the Sox & Yankees this off season shows that they may have learned from their past mistakes. Both teams have invested a lot of money in free agents and gotten little in return recently. I don't think they will be making any Burnett or Lackey mistakes this year.
    Posted by jrh1194


    I agree it was a good post but disagree in that if there was an excellent young front of the rotation pitcher out there that I believe the Yankees would have opened the wallet to sign him.

    They weren't impressed with Wilson or the amount or length of the contract he demanded.

    I also believe the reason they did not is because they realize that next season there is a good possibility that both Cain and Hamels will be on the market.
     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: AROD's Knee

    posted at 12/30/2011 5:42 PM EST

    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee:
    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee : I agree with most of what you wrote but the stark reality of the situation is that in order to compete with the better organizations you need to have good front of the rotation pitching. Wealthy teams like the Yankees and Sox with rabid fanbases will continue to go to the well of the free agent market to gamble on pitching or trade their best prospects in hope of getting the same. It will never change, for every CC the Yankees have signed there are countless other duds like AJ, Pavano, Jared Wright etc. etc. Why the Yankees are holding onto Benuelos and Betances who might develope into something special that is if they stay healthy. You better believe that next season when/if Cole Hamels hits the free agent market that both teams will be aggressive in trying to sign him.  
    Posted by ThatWasMe


    I agree pitching is the key as the Rays have proven to all of us.  If the Rays had the offense our teams have, they would have easily won a WC or two by now.  Many will argue the Rays had many years of great draft picks which helped but guess what?  The bottom line is, you still need to no how to evaluate talent when drafting the and they have been masterfull.

    The Sox need to build the farm back up, which brought us solid talent like Pede, Youk, Ells, Pap, Bard, Lester, Masterson and Clay until the well dried up more recently, or we traded youngsters to upgrade other areas.  I guess in a way we have been more resourceful than the Yanks by developing/utilizing our farm a bit more.  I would love to see us get back there at some point rather than overpay guys like we have with little return.  Two WCs have been great but the game has got completely out of hand in other areas.
     

  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: AROD's Knee

    posted at 12/30/2011 5:44 PM EST

    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee:
    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee : I agree pitching is the key as the Rays have proven to all of us.   If the Rays had the offense our teams have, they would have easily won a WC or two by now.  Many will argue the Rays had many years of great draft picks which helped but guess what?  The bottom line is, you still need to no how to evaluate talent when drafting the and they have been masterfull. The Sox need to build the farm back up, which brought us solid talent like Pede, Youk, Ells, Pap, Bard, Lester, Masterson and Clay until the well dried up more recently, or we traded youngsters to upgrade other areas.  I guess in a way we have been more resourceful than the Yanks by developing/utilizing our farm a bit more.  I would love to see us get back there at some point rather than overpay guys like we have with little return.  Two WCs have been great but the game has got completely out of hand in other areas.
    Posted by craze4sox


    Say what you like about the Rays, but imo they're the best run organization in the AL...

    The rotation next season is damn good.
     

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Smartacus. Show Smartacus's posts

    Re: AROD's Knee

    posted at 12/30/2011 5:47 PM EST

    If we have learned one thing over the years it is good management and not the size of payroll that wins championships.  If it was the size of payroll then the Yanks would have won more than one championship in 10 years


    If you take the time to read the new CBA you will come to the same conclusion as many have.  The financial penalties under the new CBA are such that the Yanks cannot afford and will not pay them.


    Let us not forget that teams like the Yanks can no longer flex their financial muscle in the draft anymore without stiff penalties.


    I believe that the owners cleaned the player’s clocks with this CBA.  The owners have finally gotten the players to help control themselves from themselves. This was the major goal of the owners all a long not the drug testing. The drug testing agreement was like the old saying look at what is going on in front of the curtain not what really is going on behind it.  What was going on behind the curtain was owners getting control of salaries and putting stiff financial penalties on the clubs who fail to live up to the agreement.


    Yankee management has not prepared for this day and are at the bus station watching the new baseball financial bus leaving.

    This means in the future fewer big name players with big contracts, over paying for draft picks etc that will be  coming to the Yanks because they no longer can afford it.

    It means your GM will no longer have that big check book behind him.  Yanks better hope that the farm system that so many there have bragged about is for real and starts producing quality major league pitchers and position player really soon.

    Thatwasme can't count on outside help coming to the rescue like both your  fans and your GM use to be able to.

     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrh1194. Show jrh1194's posts

    Re: AROD's Knee

    posted at 12/30/2011 6:01 PM EST

    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee:
    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee : I agree it was a good post but disagree in that if there was an excellent young front of the rotation pitcher out there that I believe the Yankees would have opened the wallet to sign him. They weren't impressed with Wilson or the amount or length of the contract he demanded. I also believe the reason they did not is because they realize that next season there is a good possibility that both Cain and Hamels will be on the market.
    Posted by ThatWasMe


    I see your point, but not too long ago the Yankees would have signed Wilson. Not because he did impress them or he was a great pitcher, but because they felt the need to make the big signing every year. It shows that times are changing when the 2 teams with the biggest payrolls (Yankees & Sox) are content to sit back watch other teams sign the big dollar contracts. Hopefully we can give some of our players in the minors a good look during the season. Some of them may be ready to play for the Sox this year.
     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: AROD's Knee

    posted at 12/30/2011 6:05 PM EST

    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee:
    If we have learned one thing over the years it is good management and not the size of payroll that wins championships.  If it was the size of payroll then the Yanks would have won more than one championship in 10 years If you take the time to read the new CBA you will come to the same conclusion as many have.  The financial penalties under the new CBA are such that the Yanks cannot afford and will not pay them. Let us not forget that teams like the Yanks can no longer flex their financial muscle in the draft anymore without stiff penalties. I believe that the owners cleaned the player’s clocks with this CBA.  The owners have finally gotten the players to help control themselves from themselves. This was the major goal of the owners all a long not the drug testing. The drug testing agreement was like the old saying look at what is going on in front of the curtain not what really is going on behind it.  What was going on behind the curtain was owners getting control of salaries and putting stiff financial penalties on the clubs who fail to live up to the agreement. Yankee management has not prepared for this day and are at the bus station watching the new baseball financial bus leaving. This means in the future fewer big name players with big contracts, over paying for draft picks etc that will be  coming to the Yanks because they no longer can afford it. It means your GM will no longer have that big check book behind him.  Yanks better hope that the farm system that so many there have bragged about is for real and starts producing quality major league pitchers and position player really soon. Thatwasme can't count on outside help coming to the rescue like both your  fans and your GM use to be able to.
    Posted by Smartacus



    I believe since the enaction of the payroll tax of the 262 million forked over to MLB that the Yankees have been penalized 206 million of that amount.

    I agree the Yankees would like to climb under the 189 million dollar threshold but the reason is that they are tired of subsidizing rich owners who are pocketing their revenue sharing checks.

    What you don't understand is the enormous amount of money that both the new stadium and the YES Network generate.

    The yankees are not spending this off season because they have no need to. They retain a club that won 97 games last season with Arod on the shelf for most of the year, his role filled primarily from talent promoted from the farm system.

    I have been a Yankee fan for close to 60 years in that time I can never remember the farm system being as deep at all levels as it is currently.

    It's difficult to have any kind of a serious dialogue with someone as ignorant of the Yankee organization as you with your ridiculous unsubstantiated comments which are not based in facts more like dreamed up from your fantasyworld and why I tend to humor your posts. Beni.
     

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: AROD's Knee

    posted at 12/30/2011 6:07 PM EST

    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee:
    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee : I see your point, but not too long ago the Yankees would have signed Wilson. Not because he did impress them or he was a great pitcher, but because they felt the need to make the big signing every year. It shows that times are changing when the 2 teams with the biggest payrolls (Yankees & Sox) are content to sit back watch other teams sign the big dollar contracts. Hopefully we can give some of our players in the minors a good look during the season. Some of them may be ready to play for the Sox this year.
    Posted by jrh1194


    Actually I think they kind of approached the CC signing in much the same way planning for his free agency a year or two prior.
     

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: AROD's Knee

    posted at 12/30/2011 7:01 PM EST

    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee:
    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee : I respond to serious give and take dialogue on baseball with the same. Hard to take anything from Beni on a serious note. Not that I really need your approval to comment on a public forum but what I was referring to was doctoring his profile picture with photoshop. It was a harmless comment Second of all I know children frequent this site. You need to chill nitwit I've been on this site since 2005 with the same name.
    Posted by ThatWasMe


    Harmless to others, yes; but not to yourself. Name calling is another virtue of yours I see as well. Keep digging that hole.
     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: AROD's Knee

    posted at 12/30/2011 7:10 PM EST

    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee:
    If we have learned one thing over the years it is good management and not the size of payroll that wins championships.  If it was the size of payroll then the Yanks would have won more than one championship in 10 years If you take the time to read the new CBA you will come to the same conclusion as many have.  The financial penalties under the new CBA are such that the Yanks cannot afford and will not pay them. Let us not forget that teams like the Yanks can no longer flex their financial muscle in the draft anymore without stiff penalties. I believe that the owners cleaned the player’s clocks with this CBA.  The owners have finally gotten the players to help control themselves from themselves. This was the major goal of the owners all a long not the drug testing. The drug testing agreement was like the old saying look at what is going on in front of the curtain not what really is going on behind it.  What was going on behind the curtain was owners getting control of salaries and putting stiff financial penalties on the clubs who fail to live up to the agreement. Yankee management has not prepared for this day and are at the bus station watching the new baseball financial bus leaving. This means in the future fewer big name players with big contracts, over paying for draft picks etc that will be  coming to the Yanks because they no longer can afford it. It means your GM will no longer have that big check book behind him.  Yanks better hope that the farm system that so many there have bragged about is for real and starts producing quality major league pitchers and position player really soon. Thatwasme can't count on outside help coming to the rescue like both your  fans and your GM use to be able to.
    Posted by Smartacus


    You are clueless, and full of wishful thinking. The Yankees make so much money from YES it is mind boggling. They could bankroll an entire league of teams if they want to. It's just that they learned not to throw money away unnecessarily. Yes, the ARod (& others, to a lesser degree), were huge & idiotic mistakes, but this is far from anything they can't recover from without batting an eyelash.

    It is the Sox who, if anyone, are saddled with behemoth contracts that shall crimp their style, and even in their case, given their strong revenue stream, not really so much in the long term.
     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: AROD's Knee

    posted at 12/30/2011 7:23 PM EST

    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee:
    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee : Harmless to others, yes; but not to yourself. Name calling is another virtue of yours I see as well. Keep digging that hole.
    Posted by nhsteven



    What is the difference between name calling and your condesending lectures to others. Just as demeaning from where I sit. Mr. holier then thou.

    Try the ignore feature. I don't come here to read your opinions and it works just fine for me.

     

  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: AROD's Knee

    posted at 12/30/2011 7:45 PM EST

    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee:
    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee : What is the difference between name calling and your condesending lectures to others. Just as demeaning from where I sit. Mr. holier then thou. Try the ignore feature. I don't come here to read your opinions and it works just fine for me.
    Posted by ThatWasMe


    I never said I walked on water, so nice try. However, the fact that you question the difference, whether as an excuse or otherwise, is yet more revealing.
     

  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: AROD's Knee

    posted at 12/30/2011 7:59 PM EST

    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee:
    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee : I never said I walked on water, so nice try. However, the fact that you question the difference, whether as an excuse or otherwise, is yet more revealing.
    Posted by nhsteven



    After reading a few of your posts, your large playback fonts, your keen commentary, there are a few of us here who believe that yes, you probably can walk on water.




     

  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: AROD's Knee

    posted at 12/30/2011 8:34 PM EST

    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee:
    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee : After reading a few of your posts, your large playback fonts, your keen commentary, there are a few of us here who believe that yes, you probably can walk on water.
    Posted by ThatWasMe


    That doesn't surprise me; I'm not sure how you would know about others though, unless you're just embroidering for effect. You wouldn't do that, would you?
     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: AROD's Knee

    posted at 12/30/2011 9:15 PM EST

    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee:
    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee : That doesn't surprise me; I'm not sure how you would know about others though, unless you're just embroidering for effect. You wouldn't do that, would you?
    Posted by nhsteven


    Embroidering? Good grief.


     

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: AROD's Knee

    posted at 12/30/2011 9:31 PM EST

    In response to "Re: AROD's Knee":
    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee : Really, a post like this just invalidates yourself. Don't bother posting anything of substance from this point forward; no one will bother taking it seriously after juvenile garbage like this. If you're Babe, I wouldn't be surprised. Posted by nhsteven
    I've had suspicions as well NH, but nothing I could prove. Something is amiss with Krusty the clown.
     

  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: AROD's Knee

    posted at 12/30/2011 10:18 PM EST

    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee:
    In response to "Re: AROD's Knee": I've had suspicions as well NH, but nothing I could prove. Something is amiss with Krusty the clown.
    Posted by TheExaminer


    You guys are a pack of nuts.
     

  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: AROD's Knee

    posted at 12/30/2011 10:24 PM EST

    Must be my embroidering. Lol.
     

  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: AROD's Knee

    posted at 12/30/2011 10:36 PM EST

    In response to "Re: AROD's Knee":
    Must be my embroidering. Lol. Posted by ThatWasMe
    LOL
     

  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: AROD's Knee

    posted at 12/31/2011 12:46 AM EST

    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee:
    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee : I thought that was the GNC clerk that waited on Papi. Thanks for clearing that up.
    Posted by nhsteven


    Anything said about the Yankees here is being posted on a Sox board, not a Yankee board. Your post about Papi is being posted on a Sox board. There is a difference, and because you make this your home, you refuse to get it. Talking about the Yankees here is not trolling. You insulting a Sox player on a Sox board? That's trolling.
     

  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: AROD's Knee

    posted at 12/31/2011 12:48 AM EST

    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee:
    In response to "Re: AROD's Knee": LOL
    Posted by TheExaminer


    I agree. That was hilarious.
     

  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: AROD's Knee

    posted at 12/31/2011 2:09 AM EST

    The Yanks may lose some significant salary next winter:
    Mo      $15M
    Swish $10.25M
    Martin $???
    Garcia $4M

    Then after 2013, they lose:
    AJ     $16.5M
    Sor    $14M
    Cano $14M
    Gran  $13M
    Last arb years:
    Hughes
    Joba
    Logan 
    Option:
    Jeter  $8M or $3M buyout

    They can easily get under the cap by 2014.

    Their longterm deals:
    ARod (Turns 37 in July)
    • 12:$29M, 13:$28M, 14:$25M,15:$21M, 16:$20M, 17:$20M
    • $30M marketing agreement based on home run milestones ($6M each for reaching 660, 714, 755 and tying and breaking major league HR record)
    With 629 HRs now, he may make...
    '12: $35M
    '13: $28M (age 37-38)
    '14: $31M
    '15: $21M (turns 40)
    '16: $26M
    '17: $32M (turns 42)
    Total: $172M/6 or ~$29M/yr

    CC Sabathia (turns 32 in July)
    12-15:$23M annually, 16:$25M, 17:$25M vesting option ($5M buyout)
    Total: $122M/5 or $142M/6  or  $24.4M/yr or $23.7M
    CC turns 35 in 2016 and 36 the option year of 2016.

    Teixeira (turns 32 in April)
    12-16:$22.5M annually
    Total: $112.5M or $22.5M/yr
    Mark turns 36 in April of his last year.

    2010-2011 combined stats:
    ARod: .272  46  187 (.837 OPS)  Per year  .272  23  94
    Teix:  .252  72  219  (.830 OPS) Per year  .252  36  110

     

  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: AROD's Knee

    posted at 12/31/2011 3:07 AM EST

    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee:
    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee : I agree. That was hilarious.
    Posted by kimsaysthis


    Now siding with an apparent Yankee fan who dissed a RS fan as getting it on with farm animals? You're desperate.
     

  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: AROD's Knee

    posted at 12/31/2011 3:08 AM EST

    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee:
    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee : Anything said about the Yankees here is being posted on a Sox board, not a Yankee board. Your post about Papi is being posted on a Sox board. There is a difference, and because you make this your home, you refuse to get it. Talking about the Yankees here is not trolling. You insulting a Sox player on a Sox board? That's trolling.
    Posted by kimsaysthis


    That's your opinion. Since those opinions with respect to sports and this forum are in general out there, largely devoid of reality, and hypocrisy ridden, I could GAC. That's what you don't get.

     

  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: AROD's Knee

    posted at 12/31/2011 3:28 AM EST

    In Response to Re: AROD's Knee:
    Must be my embroidering. Lol.
    Posted by ThatWasMe


    Soorrrry; bad metaphor on my part; next time, I'll use the word lying, so there's no confusion. Apparently, I need to upgrade to your standard, as you've demonstrated so clearly.