As Much As You All HATE Dice-K...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TijuanaTornado. Show TijuanaTornado's posts

    As Much As You All HATE Dice-K...

    He's the only (someone name me someone else) 5th starter that can throw near no hitters against powerful line ups (Phillies, Rays) or masterpiece gems.  He's 50/50, but when he's locked in, he's awesome.  Most 5th starters suck throughout the entire season.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: As Much As You All HATE Dice-K...

    But at his salary was he supposed to be our 5th starter or did he play himself into that role?

    You are confusing "hate" with "disappointment."

    I don't "hate" ballplayers. What I hate is that they are paid like superstars before they "earn" it.  The lesson of life we were taught as children was that we had to "earn" respect and good wages. Not that someone would build us up to be superstars and pay us like superstars...when, in fact, we are 5th starters.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: As Much As You All HATE Dice-K...

    I certainly understand your position Zillagod, but I think that Dice-K's annual salary is the salary of a 4th or 5th starter on a big market team that is trying to win a post-season birth.  As a comparison, look at Blanton's salary.  Did Dice-K pitch his way into that position?  Yes.  Over the last two seasons.  Could he pitch his way into the #3 slot again?  Yes.  And his salary would not change, only the value we associate with his contract.

    What you and I probably disagree on is what constitutes Matsuzaka's salary.  I DO NOT include his posting fee in his salary.  Certainly he did not get that money.  And the Sox are not paying luxury tax on that money, either, as far as I know.  I consider the posting fee the cost of doing business in Japan for players not yet having reached 30+ (that is: not yet past their prime), and that money was probably recuperated in the business generated by the Sox opening up a new market of fans with money to spend on souvenirs and other licensed products.  If that money was not recuperated, it became a business expense (in other words: a tax write-off). 

    So, in my mind his 5th starter salary is not nearly as much as many people claim it to be, and therefore he is not nearly as much of a disappointment and financial disaster as some (like Edes, Massarotti, and even Cafardo) often make him out to be.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: As Much As You All HATE Dice-K...

    What does a 5th starter on Kansas City make?

    Bet it's less than half of Daisuke's.

    You use Joe Blanton's salary as a reference, but Philadelphia has one of the best rotations in recent memory. Blanton is likely a #3 on many teams. On some teams he might be #2.

    Maybe in 2011 dollars  this salary is "cheap." But when he was signed he was touted as a "top of rotation guy" , perhaps and an "ace." 

    At any rate, you may have a point, as some of the contracts signed (throughout baseball) since Daisuke was inked are pretty outrageous and maybe we have reached the point where 5th starters are now being paid "superstar" money.

    Still, 52 million for six years with a 2 million dollar signing bonus is alot of cabbage....no matter how you look at it. And too many nights, it seems like he's no bargain, at any price.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: As Much As You All HATE Dice-K...

    I cannot argue with your premise that 52 million is a lot of cabbage.  I just don't think it is #1 or #2 money, even when Matsuzaka signed his deal.  What did Zito get, when he signed and SF was thinking they were getting a #1?  What did Pettitte sign for to be the Yankees #3 starter?  Remember, I said big-market teams.  That is what the Sox are, and that is who they were competing against in order to sign Matsuzaka.

    As for Blanton.  He is not a #2 or #3 starter on a team looking to make the playoffs, IMO.  He would not be the 2nd or 3rd best starter on any of the contenders that I can think of.  He is a luxury that the Phillies and few others can afford.  A dependably mediocre 4th or 5th starter, who can pitch 200 innings and win about half his games. 

    Matsuzaka's problem is that since his first season, he has not provided the innings pitched that one would like to see out of the #4 or #5 slot, IMO.  But part of the reason for that is that the Sox management has restricted his pitch count.  He was used to much higher pitch counts in Japan.  Allowing him to equal those pitch counts would have meant he could have gone deeper into games and eaten up many more innings.  He might have gotten injured doing so--but then, he got injured any way!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: As Much As You All HATE Dice-K...

    Good point. Most Red Sox fans hate Asian players.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from lstboss. Show lstboss's posts

    Re: As Much As You All HATE Dice-K...

    All i can say is : the sun shines on a dogs rear once and awhile....
    if he was more than a 50 - 50 pitcher, he wouldnt have so many haters.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from YOU-KILL-US20. Show YOU-KILL-US20's posts

    Re: As Much As You All HATE Dice-K...

    In Response to Re: As Much As You All HATE Dice-K...:
    [QUOTE]Good point. Most Red Sox fans hate Asian players.
    Posted by BaseballGM[/QUOTE]


    what makes you think that?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from REDSOX-11. Show REDSOX-11's posts

    Re: As Much As You All HATE Dice-K...

    I don't hate him at all. I think he still has the potential to be a good ML pitcher. Problem is tito leaves him in to melt down. Pticher can't give up 7ER if he isn't in the game. I noticed farrell the other day only allowed his starter to give up 4 runs and he pulled him in the 3rd. This shows me it was all Mr francona who left pitchers (both starters and relievers) in until the game was lost. This seems to be his style the last 3 years. Only proves how little league he thinks once the game starts.


    In Response to As Much As You All HATE Dice-K...:
    [QUOTE]He's the only (someone name me someone else) 5th starter that can throw near no hitters against powerful line ups (Phillies, Rays) or masterpiece gems.  He's 50/50, but when he's locked in, he's awesome.  Most 5th starters suck throughout the entire season.
    Posted by TijuanaTornado[/QUOTE]
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: As Much As You All HATE Dice-K...

    In Dice K's instance what he makes has nothing to do with how he pitches.
    BTW what a player makes has nothing to do with what he does on the field after signing the contract.
    All contracts are based upon what you have done in the past and the hope you continue to perform to the associated dollars in the contract.
    Tying a players contract to what he does on the field only gives fans something more to complain about or the ability to confuse the real facts.

    Yes player's performance may not equal their contract and that can go either way.
    Too much $ for too little performance or too little $ for a lot of performance.

    We all know high priced players will quite often not meet what we see as the correlation between performance and pay.

    In Dice K's situation he did not twist the arm of the RS to pay him that money. They went after him because they thought he was worth it. It has not worked out that way. Blame the RS not Dice K.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from REDSOX-11. Show REDSOX-11's posts

    Re: As Much As You All HATE Dice-K...

    He look aweful up to today, but that could be the result of the vacation that was supposed to be ST.


    In Response to Re: As Much As You All HATE Dice-K...:
    [QUOTE]In Dice K's instance what he makes has nothing to do with how he pitches. BTW what a player makes has nothing to do with what he does on the field after signing the contract. All contracts are based upon what you have done in the past and the hope you continue to perform to the associated dollars in the contract. Tying a players contract to what he does on the field only gives fans something more to complain about or the ability to confuse the real facts. Yes player's performance may not equal their contract and that can go either way. Too much $ for too little performance or too little $ for a lot of performance. We all know high priced players will quite often not meet what we see as the correlation between performance and pay. In Dice K's situation he did not twist the arm of the RS to pay him that money. They went after him because they thought he was worth it. It has not worked out that way. Blame the RS not Dice K.
    Posted by JimfromFlorida[/QUOTE]
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSNS14. Show RSNS14's posts

    Re: As Much As You All HATE Dice-K...

    Dice K was the best pitcher during the spring.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: As Much As You All HATE Dice-K...

    Dice-K is the greatest Red Sox pitcher EVER........hehehehe
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: As Much As You All HATE Dice-K...

    I don't hate Dice-K, I like him. I just think he's a mediocre pitcher. If he proves me wrong, I will gladly eat crow.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: As Much As You All HATE Dice-K...

    In Response to Re: As Much As You All HATE Dice-K...:
    [QUOTE]Good point. Most Red Sox fans hate Asian players.
    Posted by BaseballGM[/QUOTE]

    Lame blanket statement.

    How about some proof?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Colosoxman. Show Colosoxman's posts

    Re: As Much As You All HATE Dice-K...


      I dont know if Red Sox fans (from Boston) hate Asians or not but when I went to Fenway in 2009 they booed Dice mercilously and then he was sent down for

    3 months. I was shocked that they booed him with such venom however it may be because he is Dice K. Dont remember Takashi Saito or Okij being booed.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from emp9. Show emp9's posts

    Re: As Much As You All HATE Dice-K...

    His record 47 and 29. Even at the end of 2009, he was still one of the league's most winningest starting pitchers from that 3 year period (was he ranked 2nd?). Anyway. Still a winning pitcher. It's just that when he's bad, he's real bad. So bad that it's impossible to come back and win. I swear, The 27Yankees couldn't bat their way to a win behind him- bad.  I still have hope. I try to be optimistic. And as brutal as last week was, I still held out hope for the guy and it paid off today.  He has the tools. No question.  He just lacks focus. It's like he's bipolar or something?
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: As Much As You All HATE Dice-K...

     don't "hate" ballplayers. What I hate is that they are paid like superstars before they "earn" it.  The lesson of life we were taught as children was that we had to "earn" respect and good wages.

    Why hasn't he earned it.  He did well in Japan and most of the teams in America thought he was worth a serious bid.  When you get a job, do you disregard any salary discussion, and tell them to pay you what you think you are worth at the end of the year?  
     
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