Assuming Lester is traded, there is no way Management Can Spin This

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Re: Assuming Lester is traded, there is no way Management Can Spin This

    In response to dannycater's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    AL, I thought that in 2012, ironically. Then the Sox got Napoli, Victorino. So I don't know if that will be the final straw or not. I think players love Boston and it kills me that a player who bleeds Sox always seems to the the guy that the Sox don't want to hold on to. It would have been like trading Yaz in his prime.

    [/QUOTE]

    Danny

    Last year was a complete absolute fluke of nature. It will never happen for another 118 years. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Assuming Lester is traded, there is no way Management Can Spin This

    In response to BostonBruinss's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Go Yankees.  I hate the owners of the Sox.  Despicable human beings. 

    [/QUOTE]

    the same owners that have revitalized Fenway Park and brought 3 parades to the city in their tenure???

    dont worry...we still have your boy WMB. 
    but please, go on and tell me how WMB is a bust thread is still incorrect.....

     

    other names i have posted under:  none

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Assuming Lester is traded, there is no way Management Can Spin This

    In response to AL34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dannycater's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    AL, I thought that in 2012, ironically. Then the Sox got Napoli, Victorino. So I don't know if that will be the final straw or not. I think players love Boston and it kills me that a player who bleeds Sox always seems to the the guy that the Sox don't want to hold on to. It would have been like trading Yaz in his prime.

    [/QUOTE]

    Danny

    Last year was a complete absolute fluke of nature. It will never happen for another 118 years. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Or Once in a Blue Moon Odom

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Assuming Lester is traded, there is no way Management Can Spin This

     


    I preface this by saying I am greatly dissappointed, depressed, sad, and upset that Lester is walking out the door.   


    But, I actually don't get the need for spin.  I mean, sure, I would love to hear the spin on why they screwed the pooch and low-ball slapped him in the face with their pre-season offer.  But, I don't see the need to spin this:  The confluence of events - Lester having his best year ever and the Sox blowing chunks - offer the Sox an insurance policy they would not otherwise have: they can get top prospects for him now as opposed to zilch if they don't sign him over the winter.  Now, they could offer top dollar and long years now and get it done - who knows, maybe they did.  But, I doubt Lester's camp is sure what top dollar is suddenly and I am sure they are not interested in jumping on anything right now, as it is shaping up to be a gigantic pay day when the bidding starts for his services this winter.   


    Really, what is the difference between holding on to him for the next two months and then bidding for his services or trading him now and then bidding for his services?  Blue chip prospects.  On the other hand, maybe Jon will feel spurned and have no interest in resigning with Boston over the winter, but, all we have is his words, which suggest a different state of mind.    

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: Assuming Lester is traded, there is no way Management Can Spin This

    My argument on the Lester issue is that I would be faaaar more comfortable signing a stud player to a 5-6 yr deal if he was a stud position player or DH. The sad fact is that pitchers breakdown more frequently, though there have been some block buster offensive player fiascos of late. I'd sign Lester to a 3yr $90 million dollar deal before I'd go 5-6 yrs at $25 per. He will get 5-6 at $25 so I think he's gonna leave, which means we'd be foolish to not trade him now for some top prospects. But this management better damn well get off it's butt and open it's wallets next year, or there's gonna be trouble. This was an embarrassing display of ineptitude and the loser approach of napping while dreaming about past victories. The Red Sox Nation deserves better.

    Teakus-Carpe Veritatem!

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Assuming Lester is traded, there is no way Management Can Spin This

    In response to chickenandboose's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Thanks for the memories. You will he forgotten in two years when Owens is dominating the league.

    [/QUOTE]

    Who says Owens will dominate the league???

    Everything I've ever read has pegged him as a #3 starter, and even then that is a PROJECTION!!!! he hasn't done anything above AA ball yet. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Assuming Lester is traded, there is no way Management Can Spin This

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to chickenandboose's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Thanks for the memories. You will he forgotten in two years when Owens is dominating the league.

    [/QUOTE]

    Who says Owens will dominate the league???

    Everything I've ever read has pegged him as a #3 starter, and even then that is a PROJECTION!!!! he hasn't done anything above AA ball yet. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Finally, an Owens might be just a prospect post...what bottle is that guy drinking 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Assuming Lester is traded, there is no way Management Can Spin This

    In response to Teakus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    My argument on the Lester issue is that I would be faaaar more comfortable signing a stud player to a 5-6 yr deal if he was a stud position player or DH. The sad fact is that pitchers breakdown more frequently, though there have been some block buster offensive player fiascos of late. I'd sign Lester to a 3yr $90 million dollar deal before I'd go 5-6 yrs at $25 per. He will get 5-6 at $25 so I think he's gonna leave, which means we'd be foolish to not trade him now for some top prospects. But this management better damn well get off it's butt and open it's wallets next year, or there's gonna be trouble. This was an embarrassing display of ineptitude and the loser approach of napping while dreaming about past victories. The Red Sox Nation deserves better.

    Teakus-Carpe Veritatem!

    [/QUOTE]

    Jason Bay, broke down; Manny, broke down; Nomar, broke down; or pretty much most of the Sox best position players broke down sooner than later. So the argument to sign CC over Lester makes no sense.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from sycophant123. Show sycophant123's posts

    Re: Assuming Lester is traded, there is no way Management Can Spin This

    The same guys crying about Lester going are the same guys that would be crying if he was being paid 25 million a year and he had an ERA of 4.

     

    This is a fact and not an opinion.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from illinoisredsox. Show illinoisredsox's posts

    Re: Assuming Lester is traded, there is no way Management Can Spin This

    In response to dannycater's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Or Once in a Blue Moon Odom

    [/QUOTE]

    Cater? Odom? You sure you're a Red Sox fan and not an A's fan?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Assuming Lester is traded, there is no way Management Can Spin This

    I'm a punster at heart...Blue Moon Odom was a pretty forgotten pitcher on that A's staff--Vida Blue, Holtzman, Fingers, Hunter. A's were pretty stacked.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Assuming Lester is traded, there is no way Management Can Spin This

    Cater was a brilliant move at the time...for the Yankees...If the Sox had Sparky in '75....Sox win in my opinion.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Assuming Lester is traded, there is no way Management Can Spin This

    '78, Sox win again with the uber lefty.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from illinoisredsox. Show illinoisredsox's posts

    Re: Assuming Lester is traded, there is no way Management Can Spin This

    In response to dannycater's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm a punster at heart...Blue Moon Odom was a pretty forgotten pitcher on that A's staff--Vida Blue, Holtzman, Fingers, Hunter. A's were pretty stacked.

    [/QUOTE]


    Remember them well.  The A's had a bunch of guys who couldn't stand each other, but hated losing and Charley Finley more.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: Assuming Lester is traded, there is no way Management Can Spin This

    It's simply the law of physics Danny. Pitchers hurl a baseball at incredible velocities, different arm angles, etc. up to or even above 100x's per game. Outfielders stand around blowing bubbles waiting for a ball to be hit to them, maybe 6x's in a game. They bat also, of course, and can certainly be hurt doing any of these things. But the odds still favor the position player over a 6 yr deal. Now, the PED era clouded this somewhat but the truth still exits. CC was a terrible contract in hindsight, though I admit to buying the hype on him. The irony is Shaughnessy later claiming Bill James was firmly against CC. Blew my mind as I was sure he was the main proponent. Regardless, while I'll be sad to see Lester go, I want something for him if it's gonna happen.

     

     

    In response to dannycater's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Teakus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    My argument on the Lester issue is that I would be faaaar more comfortable signing a stud player to a 5-6 yr deal if he was a stud position player or DH. The sad fact is that pitchers breakdown more frequently, though there have been some block buster offensive player fiascos of late. I'd sign Lester to a 3yr $90 million dollar deal before I'd go 5-6 yrs at $25 per. He will get 5-6 at $25 so I think he's gonna leave, which means we'd be foolish to not trade him now for some top prospects. But this management better damn well get off it's butt and open it's wallets next year, or there's gonna be trouble. This was an embarrassing display of ineptitude and the loser approach of napping while dreaming about past victories. The Red Sox Nation deserves better.

    Teakus-Carpe Veritatem!

    [/QUOTE]

    Jason Bay, broke down; Manny, broke down; Nomar, broke down; or pretty much most of the Sox best position players broke down sooner than later. So the argument to sign CC over Lester makes no sense.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Assuming Lester is traded, there is no way Management Can Spin This

    In response to Teakus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    My argument on the Lester issue is that I would be faaaar more comfortable signing a stud player to a 5-6 yr deal if he was a stud position player or DH. The sad fact is that pitchers breakdown more frequently, though there have been some block buster offensive player fiascos of late. I'd sign Lester to a 3yr $90 million dollar deal before I'd go 5-6 yrs at $25 per. He will get 5-6 at $25 so I think he's gonna leave, which means we'd be foolish to not trade him now for some top prospects. But this management better damn well get off it's butt and open it's wallets next year, or there's gonna be trouble. This was an embarrassing display of ineptitude and the loser approach of napping while dreaming about past victories. The Red Sox Nation deserves better.

    Teakus-Carpe Veritatem!

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    Lester is only 30. I don't see why you are willing to pay $30M at age 33 and not $22M at age 34 and 35.

    I get the risk management argument, but I doubt Lester goes for short years.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: Assuming Lester is traded, there is no way Management Can Spin This

    Hey Moon. Lester for me is a complicated example, and I don't make my decision based only on age. I must confess to also worrying about a possible relapse in you know what, something I don't even want to speak about but yet is obviously a real issue. It's all just a matter of risk mitigation for me, and it's how I'd proceed with John. I don't doubt he'll get his 6 yr deal somewhere, but if it's not going to be us I'd like to land something for him.

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Teakus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    My argument on the Lester issue is that I would be faaaar more comfortable signing a stud player to a 5-6 yr deal if he was a stud position player or DH. The sad fact is that pitchers breakdown more frequently, though there have been some block buster offensive player fiascos of late. I'd sign Lester to a 3yr $90 million dollar deal before I'd go 5-6 yrs at $25 per. He will get 5-6 at $25 so I think he's gonna leave, which means we'd be foolish to not trade him now for some top prospects. But this management better damn well get off it's butt and open it's wallets next year, or there's gonna be trouble. This was an embarrassing display of ineptitude and the loser approach of napping while dreaming about past victories. The Red Sox Nation deserves better.

    Teakus-Carpe Veritatem!

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    Lester is only 30. I don't see why you are willing to pay $30M at age 33 and not $22M at age 34 and 35.

    I get the risk management argument, but I doubt Lester goes for short years.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Assuming Lester is traded, there is no way Management Can Spin This

    Hey Moon. Lester for me is a complicated example, and I don't make my decision based only on age. I must confess to also worrying about a possible relapse in you know what, something I don't even want to speak about but yet is obviously a real issue. It's all just a matter of risk mitigation for me, and it's how I'd proceed with John. I don't doubt he'll get his 6 yr deal somewhere, but if it's not going to be us I'd like to land something for him.

    We may never know what we offered or what Lester wanted, but my guess is he would have taken $120M/5 this spring or close to $125M/5 this summer. I'd have given that, but with reservations and doubts.

    Signing 2 Demspters is not going to make up for losing Lester.

    Sox4ever

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: Assuming Lester is traded, there is no way Management Can Spin This

    In response to ADG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We will hear the blah blah blah's from management if and when he's traded. Jon Lester has been the constant face in on the pitching staff since 2006 and he will be traded.

     

    What will this team look like next year?

     

    There is nothing they can say to justify this potential impending move. Nothing. He should have been re-signed.

     

    If they go ahead and get Hamels at $24M, it will be a travesity. He has never pitched well against the AL.

    [/QUOTE]


    There is nothing to lose by trading him! Nothing! The season is hory, and he either comes back next year or he doesn't. He's gpoing to be a free agent!!! Get a good outfielder, jettison Gomes, and it cost zero/

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: Assuming Lester is traded, there is no way Management Can Spin This

    In response to AL34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Larry Luchinno, if he makes this deal should be fired. He won't and will spin this off. What a complete clown, but I called it and said that this FO was cheap. I also said they did not have enough hitting in the Spring when they lost Ellsbury and Saltalamachia. Complete idiots. All Cherri goon does it gets Larry Luchinno's coffee. No free agents are going to want to come here. The players also see the actions of this cheapskate FO.

     

    when Lester goes so will a lot of fans. I am saving money on a baseball package as well. It's going to be a long time before this team is competitive.

    [/QUOTE]


    I fail to see any resoning at all in your argument. OF COURSE he has to go. It cost nothing. The season is over. Got that? OVER. Whethr he piches every 5th day, or not, is not to make any difference where the team finishes. Thos ragtag bunch is gowing nowhere. Get a good prospect for a two month rental. Whether he comes back next year, or not, MAKES NO DIFFERENCE NOW. He either will or he won't.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Assuming Lester is traded, there is no way Management Can Spin This

    I'm sad for bosoxmal as Lester's departure probably marks the last time in his lifetime the Sox will win the WS. Of course, 3 in the last 11 years ain't bad thing to hang your hat on. Anyway, it's been swell, this Sox run of success. Sorry to see it end this way.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Assuming Lester is traded, there is no way Management Can Spin This

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ADG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We will hear the blah blah blah's from management if and when he's traded. Jon Lester has been the constant face in on the pitching staff since 2006 and he will be traded.

     

    What will this team look like next year?

     

    There is nothing they can say to justify this potential impending move. Nothing. He should have been re-signed.

     

    If they go ahead and get Hamels at $24M, it will be a travesity. He has never pitched well against the AL.

    [/QUOTE]

    There is nothing to lose by trading him! Nothing! The season is hory, and he either comes back next year or he doesn't. He's gpoing to be a free agent!!! Get a good outfielder, jettison Gomes, and it cost zero/

    [/QUOTE]

    Well, it's not quite that simple.  If the Red Sox were really intent on re-signing him, not trading him would give them 3 more months in which to work out a deal with him.  But they're obviously not that intent on doing so.

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Assuming Lester is traded, there is no way Management Can Spin This

    In response to bugmenot2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    They let Pedro leave after the 2004 WSC and won again in 2007. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes indeed.  But Pedro was 33 at the end of the '04 season and showing obvious signs of decline.  Also a smaller and more fragile guy than Lester, who has hardly ever even been on the DL.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Assuming Lester is traded, there is no way Management Can Spin This

    In response to sycophant123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The same guys crying about Lester going are the same guys that would be crying if he was being paid 25 million a year and he had an ERA of 4. 

    This is a fact and not an opinion.

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't disagree.  Of course the fact that Lester has been putting up an ERA below 3 for the last year, and was lights-out in the postseason, is influencing people's opinions on this. 

     

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