Assuming the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, who should the Red Sox sign?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bigpapa1977. Show Bigpapa1977's posts

    Assuming the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, who should the Red Sox sign?

    Thirteen players were tendered qualifying offers in 2014 and they are as follows:

     

    Brian McCann (signed with the NYY)

    Carlos Beltran, RF/DH

    Robinson Cano, 2B

    Shin-Soo Choo, CF

    Nelson Cruz, RF

    Stephen Drew, SS

    Jacoby Ellsbury, CF 

    Curtis Granderson, CF

    Ubaldo Jimenez, SP

    Hiroki Kuroda, SP

    Kendrys Morales, 1B

    Mike Napoli, 1B

    Ervin Santana, SP

     

    If the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, they can have 4 of the top 40 picks (and the extra $$ that go along with those draft slots).  In order for this to happen, Ells, Drew and Naps will have to sign elsewhere.  Keeping Salty as a FA for the time being, our lineup looks like this:

     

    1B - Carp/Nava/Middlebrooks

    2B - Pedroia/Holt

    SS - Bogaerts/Holt

    3B - Middlebrooks/Bogaerts

    RF: - Victorino/Nava

    CF: - Bradley, Jr./Victorino

    LF: - Nava/Gomes

    C: - Ross/Lavarnway

     

    Let's take a look at the free agent options for the positions:

    C: With McCann and Ruiz off the table, it is either Salty, Pierzynski, Navarro or Buck. I think that the Sox should offer Salty 2 X 20-24 and then pass if he wants 3+ years.  In hindsight, the QO might have been the best option for Salty. If he requires more than 2 years, go for a stop gap (like Buck) or make a trade (Ryan Hanigan)

    With Vazquez (1-2 years) / Butler (1-2 years) / Denney (3-4 years) coming up from the farm, I don't think that they should go more than 2 years on any deal for a catcher.

     

    1B:  Assuming the Sox pass on Napoli, Morales, then I am fine with the Carp/Nava/Middy combo with a one year or a make good offer for Corey Hart (8-10 MM with incentives).

     

    2B: Nothing happening here.

     

    SS:  If Drew is off the table, I would add a defense first, no-hit guy and possibly resign John McDonald.  I would give the position to Bogey in ST and let him figure it out.  He is the future and the future begins now.

     

    3B:  I would be fine with Middy.  If they don't sign Hart and slide Middy to 1B, maybe sign a buy low candidate like Michael Young or Mark Reynolds.  Cecchini is 1-2 years away if Middy can't handle the job or gets moved to 1B.

     

    LF: Nava and Gomes with a possible (really) dark horse Ryan Kalish or 'guns blazing' Bryce Brentz

     

    CF: We need to add someone here, maybe a Rajai Davis?  Bring some competition to JBJ and see if he takes the job.

     

    RF: Victorino should stay put (and not move to center) and Nava can spell him for the few weeks that he will miss because of the blatant disregard he has for his body.

     

    Sooo, I would spend the offseason money as follows:

     

    1) Sign Corey Hart to a 1 one year 8-10 MM deal with incentives.

    2) Sign Buck at 1 year, cheap dollars (4-6 MM) or make a trade (Hanigan) - assuming that Salty gets a better deal elsewhere.

    2) Re-sign John McDonald or another defensive minded SS (Bogey should play 150+ games at SS)

    4) Sign Rajai Davis to a 1 year, 4 MM deal

     

    If we sign Hart, Buck, McDonald and Davis, it would only add less than 22 million in payroll and our lineup might look like this:

     

    1) Daniel Nava, LF

    2) Shane Victorino, RF

    3) David Ortiz, DH

    4) Dustin Pedroia, 2B

    5) Corey Hart, 1B

    6) Xander Bogaerts, SS

    7) Will Middlebrooks, 3B

    8) David Ross, C

    9) Jackie Bradley, Jr - CF

     

    BENCH:

    1) John Buck, C (or trade - Hanigan) or Ryan Lavarnway, C

    2) John McDonald, IF (or trade ??)

    3) Mike Carp, 1B

    4) Rajai Davis, OF

    5) Johnny Gomes, OF

     

    If something isn't working out (like Middy at 3B) or someone is injured (Hart/Victorino), then the Sox would have the $$ and prospects to make a move.  They would also be adding 4 top tier prospects to their abundant farm system if they pass on the QO guys.

     

    The Sox would also be building their coveted depth throughout the roster.

     

    Thoughts?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Assuming the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, who should the Red Sox sign?

    In response to Bigpapa1977's comment:

    Thirteen players were tendered qualifying offers in 2014 and they are as follows:

     

    Brian McCann (signed with the NYY)

    Carlos Beltran, RF/DH

    Robinson Cano, 2B

    Shin-Soo Choo, CF

    Nelson Cruz, RF

    Stephen Drew, SS

    Jacoby Ellsbury, CF 

    Curtis Granderson, CF

    Ubaldo Jimenez, SP

    Hiroki Kuroda, SP

    Kendrys Morales, 1B

    Mike Napoli, 1B

    Ervin Santana, SP

     

    If the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, they can have 4 of the top 40 picks (and the extra $$ that go along with those draft slots).  In order for this to happen, Ells, Drew and Naps will have to sign elsewhere.  Keeping Salty as a FA for the time being, our lineup looks like this:

     

    1B - Carp/Nava/Middlebrooks

    2B - Pedroia/Holt

    SS - Bogaerts/Holt

    3B - Middlebrooks/Bogaerts

    RF: - Victorino/Nava

    CF: - Bradley, Jr./Victorino

    LF: - Nava/Gomes

    C: - Ross/Lavarnway

     

    Let's take a look at the free agent options for the positions:

    C: With McCann and Ruiz off the table, it is either Salty, Pierzynski, Navarro or Buck. I think that the Sox should offer Salty 2 X 20-24 and then pass if he wants 3+ years.  In hindsight, the QO might have been the best option for Salty. If he requires more than 2 years, go for a stop gap (like Buck) or make a trade (Ryan Hanigan)

    With Vazquez (1-2 years) / Butler (1-2 years) / Denney (3-4 years) coming up from the farm, I don't think that they should go more than 2 years on any deal for a catcher.

     

    1B:  Assuming the Sox pass on Napoli, Morales, then I am fine with the Carp/Nava/Middy combo with a one year or a make good offer for Corey Hart (8-10 MM with incentives).

     

    2B: Nothing happening here.

     

    SS:  If Drew is off the table, I would add a defense first, no-hit guy and possibly resign John McDonald.  I would give the position to Bogey in ST and let him figure it out.  He is the future and the future begins now.

     

    3B:  I would be fine with Middy.  If they don't sign Hart and slide Middy to 1B, maybe sign a buy low candidate like Michael Young or Mark Reynolds.  Cecchini is 1-2 years away if Middy can't handle the job or gets moved to 1B.

     

    LF: Nava and Gomes with a possible (really) dark horse Ryan Kalish or 'guns blazing' Bryce Brentz

     

    CF: We need to add someone here, maybe a Rajai Davis?  Bring some competition to JBJ and see if he takes the job.

     

    RF: Victorino should stay put (and not move to center) and Nava can spell him for the few weeks that he will miss because of the blatant disregard he has for his body.

     

    Sooo, I would spend the offseason money as follows:

     

    1) Sign Corey Hart to a 1 one year 8-10 MM deal with incentives.

    2) Sign Buck at 1 year, cheap dollars (4-6 MM) or make a trade (Hanigan) - assuming that Salty gets a better deal elsewhere.

    2) Re-sign John McDonald or another defensive minded SS (Bogey should play 150+ games at SS)

    4) Sign Rajai Davis to a 1 year, 4 MM deal

     

    If we sign Hart, Buck, McDonald and Davis, it would only add less than 22 million in payroll and our lineup might look like this:

     

    1) Daniel Nava, LF

    2) Shane Victorino, RF

    3) David Ortiz, DH

    4) Dustin Pedroia, 2B

    5) Corey Hart, 1B

    6) Xander Bogaerts, SS

    7) Will Middlebrooks, 3B

    8) David Ross, C

    9) Jackie Bradley, Jr - CF

     

    BENCH:

    1) John Buck, C (or trade - Hanigan) or Ryan Lavarnway, C

    2) John McDonald, IF (or trade ??)

    3) Mike Carp, 1B

    4) Rajai Davis, OF

    5) Johnny Gomes, OF

     

    If something isn't working out (like Middy at 3B) or someone is injured (Hart/Victorino), then the Sox would have the $$ and prospects to make a move.  They would also be adding 4 top tier prospects to their abundant farm system if they pass on the QO guys.

     

    The Sox would also be building their coveted depth throughout the roster.

     

    Thoughts?



    This errs way too much on the budget-minded side of things and comes up short on productivity.  If bang for your buck were the ultimate goal, then fine.  But as a fan, I'd like to see the team have a chance win another WS, not boast of the highest return on investment.  

    I highlighted the bottom third of the order that you suggested because this is a non-starter to begin with (or not to begin with).  That's a potential gaping hole in a lineup that relies on wearing out and beating up starting pitchers through a combined effort of patient at bats and opportunistic hitting.  Even one of the those three presents a liability to the lineup: Middy for chasing bad pitches and getting himself out, Ross because of his age and no track record of sustaining a decent season at the plate with primary catching responsibilities, and JBJ because he's a work in progress.  That would be a bottom-of-the-order for a team that has to pinch pennies, not one for an organization that fans expect to complete season after season in the AL East and have the budget to do it.  

    I also highlighted the part about having the money to fix things.  Yes, they may have the money.  But when things go awry, they may not have the opportinity to fix them.  Plus, they'll be in a much worse bargaining position when they're desperate for a fix.  Good management and organization is proactive in anticipating and addressing these needs beforehand.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mattc355. Show mattc355's posts

    Re: Assuming the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, who should the Red Sox sign?

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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Assuming the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, who should the Red Sox sign?

    Wouldn't surprise me if the Sox go after a guy like Davis. Many teams are getting tired of the Boras factor. He pits team against team, waste time, jacks up the price, and in the long run hurts team that signs his Free Agents. (Lose Draft Picks, High Salary, and tough to Trade if they dont work out.)

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Assuming the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, who should the Red Sox sign?

    It's very humble and you showed a lot of GM mind.  However, you have lost 4 key players from last yr's championship team and didn't really upgrade any of them.  After winning the WS, team's expected to play the October ball.  I would like to see few upgrades if some or all FAs don't come back. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bigpapa1977. Show Bigpapa1977's posts

    Re: Assuming the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, who should the Red Sox sign?

    It kind of seems that LL is sounding like he wouldn't mind the players I mentioned:

     

    http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/33569/lucchino-cant-fall-in-love-with-veterans?ex_cid=espnapi_publi

     

    To those who think that the end of the lineup would be a black hole, Middy and JBJ could both be productive players - especially at the 7, 8 and 9 spots in the order.  But, if they happen to be unproductive, the Sox would be able to make an in season move (move a starter or prospects) to upgrade the roster.

     

    I also understand the desire to keep a World Series team at the current level or to upgrade the roster.  But, how many of you thought that the RS had a WS-type lineup after the 2012 season?  If Bogey and JBJ can play well and they stay relatively healthy, I don't see why the above mentioned lineup can't make the post season.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Assuming the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, who should the Red Sox sign?

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

    Wouldn't surprise me if the Sox go after a guy like Davis. Many teams are getting tired of the Boras factor. He pits team against team, waste time, jacks up the price, and in the long run hurts team that signs his Free Agents. (Lose Draft Picks, High Salary, and tough to Trade if they dont work out.)

    On the flip side, front offices pit a free agent and his agent against other free agents and their agents, driving down the price. That's the nature of negotiations in a (relatively) free market.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Assuming the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, who should the Red Sox sign?

    In response to Bigpapa1977's comment:

    Thirteen players were tendered qualifying offers in 2014 and they are as follows:

     

    Brian McCann (signed with the NYY)

    Carlos Beltran, RF/DH

    Has stated he want a deal with NYY and the feeling is mutual. II expect an announcement sometime soon.

    Robinson Cano, 2B

    Probably back in NY at some point in January for a lot less than he want. Unless the Dodgers new 2b's injured anke isnt better.

    Shin-Soo Choo, CF

    Not a good fit

    Nelson Cruz, RF

    NO

    Stephen Drew, SS

    Already have Xander

    Jacoby Ellsbury, CF 

    I would offer a 6/108 deal as my best offer.

    Curtis Granderson, CF

    Horrible fit

    Ubaldo Jimenez, SP

    No

    Hiroki Kuroda, SP

    Will sign in japan or NYY

    Kendrys Morales, 1B

    Only a DH at this point

    Mike Napoli, 1B

    If the price is 2years with 3rd vesting option at no more than 13-14M, Im ok

    Ervin Santana, SP

    Would spend the $$ on him. Id rather give lester a 4-5 year extension with that$$

     

    If the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, they can have 4 of the top 40 picks (and the extra $$ that go along with those draft slots).  In order for this to happen, Ells, Drew and Naps will have to sign elsewhere.  Keeping Salty as a FA for the time being, our lineup looks like this:

     

    1B - Carp/Nava/Middlebrooks

    2B - Pedroia/Holt

    SS - Bogaerts/Holt

    3B - Middlebrooks/Bogaerts

    RF: - Victorino/Nava

    CF: - Bradley, Jr./Victorino

    LF: - Nava/Gomes

    C: - Ross/Lavarnway

     

    Let's take a look at the free agent options for the positions:

    C: With McCann and Ruiz off the table, it is either Salty, Pierzynski, Navarro or Buck. I think that the Sox should offer Salty 2 X 20-24 and then pass if he wants 3+ years.  In hindsight, the QO might have been the best option for Salty. If he requires more than 2 years, go for a stop gap (like Buck) or make a trade (Ryan Hanigan)

    With Vazquez (1-2 years) / Butler (1-2 years) / Denney (3-4 years) coming up from the farm, I don't think that they should go more than 2 years on any deal for a catcher.

     

    1B:  Assuming the Sox pass on Napoli, Morales, then I am fine with the Carp/Nava/Middy combo with a one year or a make good offer for Corey Hart (8-10 MM with incentives).

     

    2B: Nothing happening here.

     

    SS:  If Drew is off the table, I would add a defense first, no-hit guy and possibly resign John McDonald.  I would give the position to Bogey in ST and let him figure it out.  He is the future and the future begins now.

     

    3B:  I would be fine with Middy.  If they don't sign Hart and slide Middy to 1B, maybe sign a buy low candidate like Michael Young or Mark Reynolds.  Cecchini is 1-2 years away if Middy can't handle the job or gets moved to 1B.

     

    LF: Nava and Gomes with a possible (really) dark horse Ryan Kalish or 'guns blazing' Bryce Brentz

     

    CF: We need to add someone here, maybe a Rajai Davis?  Bring some competition to JBJ and see if he takes the job.

     

    RF: Victorino should stay put (and not move to center) and Nava can spell him for the few weeks that he will miss because of the blatant disregard he has for his body.

     

    Sooo, I would spend the offseason money as follows:

     

    1) Sign Corey Hart to a 1 one year 8-10 MM deal with incentives.

    2) Sign Buck at 1 year, cheap dollars (4-6 MM) or make a trade (Hanigan) - assuming that Salty gets a better deal elsewhere.

    2) Re-sign John McDonald or another defensive minded SS (Bogey should play 150+ games at SS)

    4) Sign Rajai Davis to a 1 year, 4 MM deal

     

    If we sign Hart, Buck, McDonald and Davis, it would only add less than 22 million in payroll and our lineup might look like this:

     

    1) Daniel Nava, LF

    2) Shane Victorino, RF

    3) David Ortiz, DH

    4) Dustin Pedroia, 2B

    5) Corey Hart, 1B

    6) Xander Bogaerts, SS

    7) Will Middlebrooks, 3B

    8) David Ross, C

    9) Jackie Bradley, Jr - CF

     

    BENCH:

    1) John Buck, C (or trade - Hanigan) or Ryan Lavarnway, C

    2) John McDonald, IF (or trade ??)

    3) Mike Carp, 1B

    4) Rajai Davis, OF

    5) Johnny Gomes, OF

     

    If something isn't working out (like Middy at 3B) or someone is injured (Hart/Victorino), then the Sox would have the $$ and prospects to make a move.  They would also be adding 4 top tier prospects to their abundant farm system if they pass on the QO guys.

     

    The Sox would also be building their coveted depth throughout the roster.

     

    Thoughts?



    I agree with these moves. Id also believe one of Peavy, Lackey or Dempster WILL be dealt this winter. Im not a huge Buck fan, but not totally opposed to it. sub 300OBP with some streaky power. Not sure on his D or game calling, so I wont comment. Navarro or Hanigan are good options as well IMO. Ross is not a full time catcher. Think 60ish games. Lav should be given a 1b mit. Obviously the Sox dont see him as a viable option or they would have played him more last year instead of wearing Salty down so he was spent come the post season.

    I believe in keeping the younger players, ie; Xander and WMB, at their natural positions and not move them all around like some here would do. Let them develop. I like the idea of a strong defensive BU IF'er like Mac or the like. Also like a Davis type signing who can play all 3 OF positions and help out if JBJ struggles too much or Vic has more injury issue from his all out playing style. Hart at 1b if naps doesnt sign is too smart a move to not offer him something.

    Good breakdown.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Assuming the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, who should the Red Sox sign?

    Hart, Buck and Davis are all viable options.  But barring a move, signing all 3 plus carrying a utility infielder does make for a roster crunch, barring one of Gomes, Nava or Carp getting dealt.  One potential solution is to replace Davis with Willie Bloomquist, who can handle CF and utility INF duties, although, fact is, Davis is a better player than Bloomquist.  Bloomquist is a role player at best, and the smaller the role the better.

     

    Another option is Tampa CF/SS/2B/3B/OF Cole Figueroa, whom the team left unprotected and is exposed for the Rule 5 Draft.   He is not much for speed, but is a smart baserunner, good fielder and patient hitter.   However, he is completely untried at the MLB level, so couting on him for multiple bench roles is a little risky.  Plus he might not get past Miami in the Rule 5 Draft...

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: Assuming the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, who should the Red Sox sign?

    In response to Bigpapa1977's comment:

     

    If the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, they can have 4 of the top 40 picks (and the extra $$ that go along with those draft slots).  In order for this to happen, Ells, Drew and Naps will have to sign elsewhere.  Keeping Salty as a FA for the time being, our lineup looks like this:

     

    1B - Carp/Nava/Hart

    2B - Pedroia/Ramon Santiago or Nick Green

    SS - Bogaerts/Ramon Santiago or Nick Green

    3B - Middlebrooks/Bogaerts/Ramon Santiago or Nick Green

    RF: - Victorino/Nava/Hart

    CF: - Bradley, Jr./Victorino

    LF: - Nava/Gomes/Carp

    C: - Ross/Navarro or Salty




    This would be my ideal team in red above.  It would limit years, maximize draft picks for the Sox and would not lose on productivity much and has a chance of improving production.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Assuming the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, who should the Red Sox sign?

    I do like the Hanigan idea.  Not sure if he is on team radar, but he appears to be the best all around catchhing option out there, all things considered.   Cincy has made it clear they intende to move him, but there has been very little public info about tumors, etc.  This is really not a surprise, and whether it is a lack or interest, ludicrous demands, or the fact that Hanigan is not exactly a headline-grabber are all potential reasons.  This has already been a very active off-season when you consider than it's not even Thanksgiving yet, so Ryan Hanigan updates are probably pretty far down on the meida priority list...

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Assuming the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, who should the Red Sox sign?

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:

    In response to Bigpapa1977's comment:

     

    If the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, they can have 4 of the top 40 picks (and the extra $$ that go along with those draft slots).  In order for this to happen, Ells, Drew and Naps will have to sign elsewhere.  Keeping Salty as a FA for the time being, our lineup looks like this:

     

    1B - Carp/Nava/Hart

    2B - Pedroia/Ramon Santiago or Nick Green

    SS - Bogaerts/Ramon Santiago or Nick Green

    3B - Middlebrooks/Bogaerts/Ramon Santiago or Nick Green

    RF: - Victorino/Nava/Hart

    CF: - Bradley, Jr./Victorino

    LF: - Nava/Gomes/Carp

    C: - Ross/Navarro or Salty




    This would be my ideal team in red above. 




     

    I like Ramon Santiago, who is actually a pretty underrated player.  But Nick Green?  Been there, done that.  And it was not enjoyable first time around.

     

    I usually do not complian about a utility INF.  If the team went with Brock Holt, fine with me.  But Nick Green is on the short list of intolerable bench options (for reasons realted to baseball, I know little to anything about his personality).

     

    Dioner Navarro strikes me as a huge waste of resources.  The guy is avaialble every year, and the trick is to get him BEFORE the career year, not after it.  That ship has sailed...

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Assuming the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, who should the Red Sox sign?

    I know there is this constant argument and struggle vs. win now and win later.  Well I think of it like this, if you focus too much on winning now you still have a very good chance of not winning even if you construct a team with elite talent e.g. Dodgers, Blue Jay, Angels and end up handicapping your future.  When you focus on the future, and stay true to that philosophy then when you get there you can stay there for a very long time.

    The Red Sox are there now.  Yes we can go crazy and add talent, but we have a good enough team to put ourselfs into the playoffs constantly, and if we play are cards right we can stay there. 

    In the long run, building for the future turns into going for it now. 

    We have in house options in Jackie Bradley Jr. Xander Bogaerts, Will Middlebrooks, Ryan Lavarnway, Daniel Butler, Mike Carp, Daniel Nava etc etc.  Also we have a huge plethora of top pitching talent (although none are truly elite) percolating at the top of our system that either is or borderline MLB ready. 

    Obviously I want to augment and hedge some of those bets, I want a back up short stop.  I wouldn't mind an outfielder with positional versatility....but I don't want to throw away the future either.

    I would like to see one Q.O. attached free agent signed and see the Sox net two picks.  At this point my main target would be Salty...only because I feel there are less depth options for us (in the near term) there and his familiarity with the pitching staff.

    Next years draft is one of the strongest in years, and there aren't any clear cut elite free agents who don't come without huge question marks. If there was ever a year to NOT go crazy in free agency.....this would be one of those years. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: Assuming the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, who should the Red Sox sign?

    In response to notin's comment:

    I do like the Hanigan idea.  Not sure if he is on team radar, but he appears to be the best all around catchhing option out there, all things considered.   Cincy has made it clear they intende to move him, but there has been very little public info about tumors, etc.  This is really not a surprise, and whether it is a lack or interest, ludicrous demands, or the fact that Hanigan is not exactly a headline-grabber are all potential reasons.  This has already been a very active off-season when you consider than it's not even Thanksgiving yet, so Ryan Hanigan updates are probably pretty far down on the meida priority list...



    I also like the idea of Hanigan.  His asking price should be down after an off year, he has had a year with an OBP over 400 with every year over 350 except for last year.  I was just answering the question that the OP had about how to maximize draft picks.  I was kind of considering a trade as losing out on prospects and similar to draft picks, but honestly we need to clear out some room on the 40 and I really like the idea of Hanigan.  We have a lot of extra pieces in the minors right now who we could trade without impacting the big club. 

    I actually like the idea of Hanigan more than I do of resigning Salty, but it will all come down to what they are asking for in return.  I would be more than happy to trade them Dan Butler who the Reds would control for a number of years at a cost controlled price for Hanigan... but would they take it?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Assuming the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, who should the Red Sox sign?

    I do not think Dan Butler offers them much.  Every team has a Dan Butler alrwady in the organization, and some have more than one.  If Dan Butler was an equal of Hanigan (which is the premise of trading), why wouldn't the Sox just use Butler?

     

    The Reds might need a pitcher, as they are losing Arroyo.  The do have some sort of weird OF situtation, with Bruce in RF and question marks everywhere else.  Billy Hamilton is the early favorite for CF, but is untried albeit exciting.  LF is some sort of Ludwix / Heisey / whover hodgepodge.  Players like Gomes and Nava are not solutions, but rather just more options for them.

     

    Franklin Morales is a nice option that Sox can afford to move, but Cincy's interest is speculation,  They have solid LHRP already with Marshall and Chapman.   And Morlaes might want ot start, and has some experience, but he is a low cost flier for the rotation moreso than an actual solution.  Arroyo's one ability as a pitcher was throwing lots and lots of innings.  Morales is unlikely to help Cincy in that regard. 

     

    Either Peavy or Dempster is a little bit too much for Hanigan, and I am not aware of the Reds budget, as both are well paid.  The Reds would like to move Brandon Phillips, but probably not so cheaply.  And while this would clear some space, it also creates another void that the Sox couldn't exactly fill for them very readily and make for an obvious trade.

     

    I expect if the Sox do want Hanigan, he is probably dealt for a minor league pitching prospect.  Not one of the elite ones from the Sox system, but certainly not one of the bottom tier, either. 

     

    This might be how the Sox keep Diaz from the Rule 5 draft...

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: Assuming the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, who should the Red Sox sign?

    In response to Bigpapa1977's comment:

     

    If the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, they can have 4 of the top 40 picks (and the extra $$ that go along with those draft slots).  In order for this to happen, Ells, Drew and Naps will have to sign elsewhere.  Keeping Salty as a FA for the time being, our lineup looks like this:

     

    1B - Carp/Nava/Hart

    2B - Pedroia/Ramon Santiago or Nick Green

    SS - Bogaerts/Ramon Santiago or Nick Green

    3B - Middlebrooks/Bogaerts/Ramon Santiago or Nick Green

    RF: - Victorino/Nava/Hart

    CF: - Bradley, Jr./Victorino

    LF: - Nava/Gomes/Carp

    C: - Ross/Navarro or Salty




    This would be my ideal team in red above. 




     

    I like Ramon Santiago, who is actually a pretty underrated player.  But Nick Green?  Been there, done that.  And it was not enjoyable first time around.

     

    I usually do not complian about a utility INF.  If the team went with Brock Holt, fine with me.  But Nick Green is on the short list of intolerable bench options (for reasons realted to baseball, I know little to anything about his personality).

     

    Dioner Navarro strikes me as a huge waste of resources.  The guy is avaialble every year, and the trick is to get him BEFORE the career year, not after it.  That ship has sailed...



The options besides Nick Green are pathetic, so that would leave Brock Holt as a better option than any others besides Santiago in my mind.  Jamey Carroll, Alexi Casilla, Luis Cruz, Munenori Kawaskai, Clint Barmes, and Ramon Santiago

 
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: Assuming the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, who should the Red Sox sign?

    In response to notin's comment:

    I do not think Dan Butler offers them much.  Every team has a Dan Butler alrwady in the organization, and some have more than one.  If Dan Butler was an equal of Hanigan (which is the premise of trading), why wouldn't the Sox just use Butler?

     

    The Reds might need a pitcher, as they are losing Arroyo.  The do have some sort of weird OF situtation, with Bruce in RF and question marks everywhere else.  Billy Hamilton is the early favorite for CF, but is untried albeit exciting.  LF is some sort of Ludwix / Heisey / whover hodgepodge.  Players like Gomes and Nava are not solutions, but rather just more options for them.

     

    Franklin Morales is a nice option that Sox can afford to move, but Cincy's interest is speculation,  They have solid LHRP already with Marshall and Chapman.   And Morlaes might want ot start, and has some experience, but he is a low cost flier for the rotation moreso than an actual solution.  Arroyo's one ability as a pitcher was throwing lots and lots of innings.  Morales is unlikely to help Cincy in that regard. 

     

    Either Peavy or Dempster is a little bit too much for Hanigan, and I am not aware of the Reds budget, as both are well paid.  The Reds would like to move Brandon Phillips, but probably not so cheaply.  And while this would clear some space, it also creates another void that the Sox couldn't exactly fill for them very readily and make for an obvious trade.

     

    I expect if the Sox do want Hanigan, he is probably dealt for a minor league pitching prospect.  Not one of the elite ones from the Sox system, but certainly not one of the bottom tier, either. 

     

    This might be how the Sox keep Diaz from the Rule 5 draft...




    Dan Butler might not interest them, but I'm sure Lavarnway would.

     

    The players who are exposed to the rule 5 or who are causing a 40 man crunch and might have a little value are as follows:

    Michael Almanzar

    Jose Vinicio       

    Luis Diaz

    Drake Britton L

    Chris Hernandez L

    Steven Wright

    Brayan Villarreal

    Alex Wilson

    Alex Hassan

    Alex Castellanos

    Keury De La Cruz L

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Assuming the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, who should the Red Sox sign?

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:

    In response to Bigpapa1977's comment:

     

    If the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, they can have 4 of the top 40 picks (and the extra $$ that go along with those draft slots).  In order for this to happen, Ells, Drew and Naps will have to sign elsewhere.  Keeping Salty as a FA for the time being, our lineup looks like this:

     

    1B - Carp/Nava/Hart

    2B - Pedroia/Ramon Santiago or Nick Green

    SS - Bogaerts/Ramon Santiago or Nick Green

    3B - Middlebrooks/Bogaerts/Ramon Santiago or Nick Green

    RF: - Victorino/Nava/Hart

    CF: - Bradley, Jr./Victorino

    LF: - Nava/Gomes/Carp

    C: - Ross/Navarro or Salty




    This would be my ideal team in red above. 




     

    I like Ramon Santiago, who is actually a pretty underrated player.  But Nick Green?  Been there, done that.  And it was not enjoyable first time around.

     

    I usually do not complian about a utility INF.  If the team went with Brock Holt, fine with me.  But Nick Green is on the short list of intolerable bench options (for reasons realted to baseball, I know little to anything about his personality).

     

    Dioner Navarro strikes me as a huge waste of resources.  The guy is avaialble every year, and the trick is to get him BEFORE the career year, not after it.  That ship has sailed...



    The options besides Nick Green are pathetic, so that would leave Brock Holt as a better option than any others besides Santiago in my mind.  Jamey Carroll, Alexi Casilla, Luis Cruz, Munenori Kawaskai, Clint Barmes, and Ramon Santiago



  • From that crowd, I like the following as better players than Green:  Carroll, Casilla, Barmes, and Santiago. 

     

    Kawaskai is apparently also some sort of wonderful personality, and a terrificdefender, but a power-free slap-hitter with no offensive relevance.  Still, I would take him over Green before you could finish saying "Nick Green."

     

    Carool is old, but is a career OBP machine and counrt worker.  Barmes is an elite defender.  Santiago is an underrated all around player and apparently a clubouse personality. 

     

    Green is far down on my list, and a rare case of me actually arguing about a utility infielder role.  If the Sox sign him, I won't rant and rave and will certainly root for him.  But my expectations would be low and my hope is he plays as litttle as possible...

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Assuming the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, who should the Red Sox sign?

    Next years draft is one of the strongest in years, and there aren't any clear cut elite free agents who don't come without huge question marks. If there was ever a year to NOT go crazy in free agency.....this would be one of those years. 

    I agree, and although I a, fine with signing one QO free agent, I think we should avoid signing 2 and look for ways to try and build a contending team with none. That will take trades and the loss of a good prospect or two, but with 4 top draft choices, the farm will be restocked quickly with players far away from rule 5 and roster choices.

    Trading Dempster or Peavy is almost a certainty. The freed up money could help us upgrade at several positions with mid tier free agents (the best of the non QO's). Try and pick up Hanigan and maybe Butler. I know Tanaka would cost Henry a hefty number, but we'd stay under the luxury limit and maybe be able to trade Dempster & Peavy. 

    If we don't sign any QOs, not many teams sign 2 or more QO players, and teams with protected picks don't sign many QO free agents, our #30 pick could rise to #21 to 23 or so. Then, we add the 3 sandwich picks that could be higher than we might expect with so many teams possibly losing their 1st rounders.  It's possible we could end up with something like 21, 28, 32, & 35ish. In a deep and strong draft, we could hit gold.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Assuming the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, who should the Red Sox sign?

    In response to notin's comment:

    I do not think Dan Butler offers them much.  Every team has a Dan Butler alrwady in the organization, and some have more than one.  If Dan Butler was an equal of Hanigan (which is the premise of trading), why wouldn't the Sox just use Butler?

     

    The Reds might need a pitcher, as they are losing Arroyo.  The do have some sort of weird OF situtation, with Bruce in RF and question marks everywhere else.  Billy Hamilton is the early favorite for CF, but is untried albeit exciting.  LF is some sort of Ludwix / Heisey / whover hodgepodge.  Players like Gomes and Nava are not solutions, but rather just more options for them.

     

    Franklin Morales is a nice option that Sox can afford to move, but Cincy's interest is speculation,  They have solid LHRP already with Marshall and Chapman.   And Morlaes might want ot start, and has some experience, but he is a low cost flier for the rotation moreso than an actual solution.  Arroyo's one ability as a pitcher was throwing lots and lots of innings.  Morales is unlikely to help Cincy in that regard. 

     

    Either Peavy or Dempster is a little bit too much for Hanigan, and I am not aware of the Reds budget, as both are well paid.  The Reds would like to move Brandon Phillips, but probably not so cheaply.  And while this would clear some space, it also creates another void that the Sox couldn't exactly fill for them very readily and make for an obvious trade.

     

    I expect if the Sox do want Hanigan, he is probably dealt for a minor league pitching prospect.  Not one of the elite ones from the Sox system, but certainly not one of the bottom tier, either. 

     

    This might be how the Sox keep Diaz from the Rule 5 draft...



    I doubt Dan Bulter is more of a depth option.  One thing to consider however, is his numbers significantly improved last year in triple A when he played full time.  When he plays consistantly he swings a much better bat. .829 OPS in Pawtucket, and remember he played better when he was consistant.  He also has pretty solid defense, he throws runners out at a good clip.  His knock is his game-calling abilities which he has said to of made improvements on.

    I don't see him as a legit option, and he's likely more of a depth guy at this point.  If anything I see him as trade bait to a second division team who might stash him and give him a shot if the opportunity arises.  Otherwise, I think he could be a good defensive backstop for a team that needs a back up catcher one day.

    of course that doesn't help us, as we need a starting catcher. 

    I said this before....I think in hindsigh the Sox regret not offering Salty a Q.O. at this point.  If he accepted it, then at this point I think that would be a good thing with Ruiz and McCann off the market and if he declines we would have gotten another draft pick.  I know a lot of people in here fought me when I said Salty should get a Q.O. and that his production didn't match the typical Q.O. player but one thing I think a lot of us forgot to take into account wasn't just the Sox needs....but the Market for Catchers out there vs. the teams looking for one. 

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Assuming the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, who should the Red Sox sign?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Next years draft is one of the strongest in years, and there aren't any clear cut elite free agents who don't come without huge question marks. If there was ever a year to NOT go crazy in free agency.....this would be one of those years. 

    I agree, and although I a, fine with signing one QO free agent, I think we should avoid signing 2 and look for ways to try and build a contending team with none. That will take trades and the loss of a good prospect or two, but with 4 top draft choices, the farm will be restocked quickly with players far away from rule 5 and roster choices.

    Trading Dempster or Peavy is almost a certainty. The freed up money could help us upgrade at several positions with mid tier free agents (the best of the non QO's). Try and pick up Hanigan and maybe Butler. I know Tanaka would cost Henry a hefty number, but we'd stay under the luxury limit and maybe be able to trade Dempster & Peavy. 

    If we don't sign any QOs, not many teams sign 2 or more QO players, and teams with protected picks don't sign many QO free agents, our #30 pick could rise to #21 to 23 or so. Then, we add the 3 sandwich picks that could be higher than we might expect with so many teams possibly losing their 1st rounders.  It's possible we could end up with something like 21, 28, 32, & 35ish. In a deep and strong draft, we could hit gold.



    Agreed.  I'm not opposed to trading away prospects, I'd just like to be conservative about it.  Also another point I'd like to reterate in here that I've said a bunch of times is that it's not just the extra draft picks that can make our draft stronger, but it's the added bonus money as well.

    If we had 2--3 extra draft picks last year then I'm sure the Sox could have signed some below slot guys and had an extra 500,000-1,000,000 dollars to work with.  With the addition of a few more prospects they very well may of ended up signing Crawford or Boldt, and possibly even both.

    Obviously those guys aren't in this years draft but there will be players like them.  An elite top 50 draft prospect will fall to the lower rounds, and if we have more bonus money then the Sox can add some elite talent without having to have the #7 pick in the draft. 

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Assuming the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, who should the Red Sox sign?

    In response to notin's comment:

    I do not think Dan Butler offers them much.  Every team has a Dan Butler alrwady in the organization, and some have more than one.  If Dan Butler was an equal of Hanigan (which is the premise of trading), why wouldn't the Sox just use Butler?

     

    The Reds might need a pitcher, as they are losing Arroyo.  The do have some sort of weird OF situtation, with Bruce in RF and question marks everywhere else.  Billy Hamilton is the early favorite for CF, but is untried albeit exciting.  LF is some sort of Ludwix / Heisey / whover hodgepodge.  Players like Gomes and Nava are not solutions, but rather just more options for them.

     

    Franklin Morales is a nice option that Sox can afford to move, but Cincy's interest is speculation,  They have solid LHRP already with Marshall and Chapman.   And Morlaes might want ot start, and has some experience, but he is a low cost flier for the rotation moreso than an actual solution.  Arroyo's one ability as a pitcher was throwing lots and lots of innings.  Morales is unlikely to help Cincy in that regard. 

     

    Either Peavy or Dempster is a little bit too much for Hanigan, and I am not aware of the Reds budget, as both are well paid.  The Reds would like to move Brandon Phillips, but probably not so cheaply.  And while this would clear some space, it also creates another void that the Sox couldn't exactly fill for them very readily and make for an obvious trade.

     

    I expect if the Sox do want Hanigan, he is probably dealt for a minor league pitching prospect.  Not one of the elite ones from the Sox system, but certainly not one of the bottom tier, either. 

     

    This might be how the Sox keep Diaz from the Rule 5 draft...



    I know you dislike blockbuster and 3-way trade speculation and with good reason, but maybe some sort of three way deal can be worked out with Cincy getting Dempster and Buttrey (or Brentz) and something from the 3rd team, the 3rd team (Yanks?) get Phillips, and we get Hannigan. The money just about evens out for Cincy on 2014, but they save a lot afterwards. The Yanks get a replacement for Cano at about half the yearly cost, and we get our cost effective catcher.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: Assuming the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, who should the Red Sox sign?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Next years draft is one of the strongest in years, and there aren't any clear cut elite free agents who don't come without huge question marks. If there was ever a year to NOT go crazy in free agency.....this would be one of those years. 

    I agree, and although I a, fine with signing one QO free agent, I think we should avoid signing 2 and look for ways to try and build a contending team with none. That will take trades and the loss of a good prospect or two, but with 4 top draft choices, the farm will be restocked quickly with players far away from rule 5 and roster choices.

    Trading Dempster or Peavy is almost a certainty. The freed up money could help us upgrade at several positions with mid tier free agents (the best of the non QO's). Try and pick up Hanigan and maybe Butler. I know Tanaka would cost Henry a hefty number, but we'd stay under the luxury limit and maybe be able to trade Dempster & Peavy. 

    If we don't sign any QOs, not many teams sign 2 or more QO players, and teams with protected picks don't sign many QO free agents, our #30 pick could rise to #21 to 23 or so. Then, we add the 3 sandwich picks that could be higher than we might expect with so many teams possibly losing their 1st rounders.  It's possible we could end up with something like 21, 28, 32, & 35ish. In a deep and strong draft, we could hit gold.



    I wouldn't say trading Dempster or Peavy is a certainty.  I was very worried about the health of Clay at the end of the season and I'm sure the Sox are too.  I think they are planning the year with counting on an injury to at least one starter to begin the season.  I think they would be wise to plan for the future and we would be hard pressed to pick up or trade for a starting pitcher of their quality now, let alone at the trade deadline when teams jack up prices.

    I would say that if all six starters are healthy that Demps simply starts the year in the bullpen and would be stretched out if needed over time.  Yes it is a lot of money for a bullpen arm who could spot start, but we don't have an Aceves on the team right now and he would fill a need.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Assuming the Red Sox want to maximize draft picks, who should the Red Sox sign?

    I said this before....I think in hindsigh the Sox regret not offering Salty a Q.O. at this point.  If he accepted it, then at this point I think that would be a good thing with Ruiz and McCann off the market and if he declines we would have gotten another draft pick.  I know a lot of people in here fought me when I said Salty should get a Q.O. and that his production didn't match the typical Q.O. player but one thing I think a lot of us forgot to take into account wasn't just the Sox needs....but the Market for Catchers out there vs. the teams looking for one. 

    I agreed with the Salty QO idea. Overpaying for one year is not a bad thing, and if we can dump Dempster's salary, we should be able to fill other needs and still stay under the limit.

     
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