Athletes and religion

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    Okay I will throw the thread into the deep end:

    There is no God.
     
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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    Okay I will throw the thread into the deep end: There is no God.
    Posted by BurritoT

    Not true. He used to play point guard at Providence.
     
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    well that just figures... how come I was left out? I must not be worthy!  Frown
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Unbelievable! Do you not know how much the Catholic church has done in the way of education and helath care for this country? They are undoubtedly the most charitable organization this country has.
    Posted by Alibiike


    I honestly don't think people understand how many hospitals and schools were started by the catholic church. 

    If they close down these schools and hospitals because of obama care the country surely will suffer.

    When gay marriage came to washington dc catholic charities refused, due to thier beliefs, to place children with gay couples.

    They were told they had to or they had to stop placing children.  In order to stay true to the church they stopped placing children for adoption.

    This is a very sad state of affairs.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Hey jessey, I watched your video, very sad. I agree we should move on but I would like to say one last thing.  All the horrible things described in the video are due to sin.  Man has free will and God will not take that away from him. There is evil in this world no doubt, for those who don't believe in the devil just look around.  We are all given the right to choose between good and evil.  No one not even God forces our hand. There is enough food in this world to feed everyone, it is man's greed that prevents that from happening, not God's. Those who don't believe in heaven or hell think this life is all there is so I can understand why they are disappointed in life here. Those of us who believe in God, the bible, their faith etc. believe this world is a journey to eternal life. We believe that we are in exile because of the sins of Adam and Eve.  This world is not meant to be paradise because this world is run by sinners.  We believe that due to original sin we and the whole world are disordered.  We don't like suffering, but we understand that the 80 short years we spend in this vale of tears is nothing compared to eternal life. Those of us who believe help the poor, sick, lonely as Christ has asked us because we know when we do it to the least of our brothers we do it for Him. God is with us in His people and in the Eucharist.  Think of Mother Theresa, Fr. Groeshel and the many others who help the poor.  Think of all the saints through out the ages who have sacrificed to help others.  We are His hands in this world, we who believe are called to care for His people. If you study WWll as I have you will understand that the reason Hitler gained so much power was because of the sins of the masses.  There was a deep hatred of the jews in europe.  He played on that hatred to incite the masses to join him in his evil atrocities.  The reason he had so much power is because those who had evil in their hearts allowed it to happen. God was there in His people.  So many sacrificed their lives to help.  Maxamilian Kolbe was one of them.  He was a catholic priest who offered his life in the death camps to save another. There is suffering in this world no doubt.  My father was an alcoholic, I wasn't wanted by my mother and I have been in varying degrees of pain since I was 13 and it's only getting worse.  I have suffered physical, emotional and yes sexual abuse as a child. If I were to believe this is it, that there was no God I would be singing along with your video!  But God has surely intervened in my life in ways too sublime and too lengthy to go into here. Let us resume our friendship which I value.  I can't wait for the season to start so we can give each other a hard time.  Sox rule!
    Posted by 67redsox


    First, our disagreements on this subject will never change my opinion of you, that is for sure. I respect people who have devout faith, even though I do not share their beliefs.

    I have studied every aspect of the human race, economically, religion, war, & Universe. I have read all the Holy Books and see the contradictions in them all. I have seen where people throw their hands in the air and say, "It must be God's Will". And to me, that is just an excuse for them not to use their minds.  Faith is so difficult, yet so simple.

    But as John Lennon said, "Whatever gets you through the night, it's alright, it's alright".

    May peace find us all one day; I just hope it is before we are worm food. I am just waiting for the mother ship to return and bring me back to the planet Zeist.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Roadrunner9234. Show Roadrunner9234's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    Yes redsox67, the suffering caused by the church and their "belief system" is very sad, indeed.
     
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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Not true. He used to play point guard at Providence.
    Posted by LloydDobler


    nice
     
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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : I honestly don't think people understand how many hospitals and schools were started by the catholic church.  If they close down these schools and hospitals because of obama care the country surely will suffer. When gay marriage came to washington dc catholic charities refused, due to thier beliefs, to place children with gay couples. They were told they had to or they had to stop placing children.  In order to stay true to the church they stopped placing children for adoption. This is a very sad state of affairs.
    Posted by 67redsox

    Hey '67 ... long time no see. Hope your winter was balmy like mine!

    My oldest son (about to turn 11, which I cannot believe!) was born in a Catholic-run hospital called Mary Immaculate. It was a fantastic experience. Nothing but good things to say about that place and the people there.

    I hope you understand that while I strongly disagree with some of the church's stances, I have respect for the religion and the free expression thereof. Not to use the "some of my best friends are Catholic" line ... but some of my best friends are Catholic. They know I disagree with some of their philosophies, and I know they disagree with some of mind. But we have mutual respect, which I fear is becoming a lost art.

    If you don't mind, though, I'd like to ask a question about the example you cited regarding gay adoption. What if the charities were refusing to place African-American children with white parents based on their beliefs. Wouldn't you then expect the government to intervene?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : nice
    Posted by SpacemanEephus

    Wasn't sure anyone would get it.
    What ever happened to that guy? Had half a cup of coffee in the league, as I remember.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Wasn't sure anyone would get it. What ever happened to that guy? Had half a cup of coffee in the league, as I remember.
    Posted by LloydDobler


    Yeah, but, as I recall, that was one nasty Friar's club.  They gave all the Big East big bodgs a run for their money.  Who else was on that club?  And were those the Pitino years?  Hmmm.  This looks like a job for Google.  I will report back.
     
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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Yeah, but, as I recall, that was one nasty Friar's club.  They gave all the Big East big bodgs a run for their money.  Who else was on that club?  And were those the Pitino years?  Hmmm.  This looks like a job for Google.  I will report back.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus

    I await!
     
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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : I await!
    Posted by LloydDobler


    Austin Croshere was on that club.  Elite 8 in 97.  Of course, I was way off on Pitino, he was 80s.  Man, my memory is not what it was.  Decades are blending in.  Fun fact:  God Shemgod played HS ball with Metta World Peace. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Austin Croshere was on that club.  Elite 8 in 97.  Of course, I was way off on Pitino, he was 80s.  Man, my memory is not what it was.  Decades are blending in.  Fun fact:  God Shemgod played HS ball with Metta World Peace. 
    Posted by SpacemanEephus

    It just hit me ... Pete Gillen was coach then, right? I think the beat Duke to get to the Elight Eight, in fact. Ah, it's all coming back to me now.

    God Shammgod and Metta Whirled Peas ... what a duo that must have been.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Roadrunner9234. Show Roadrunner9234's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    People can talk(or type) all day long about the reasons they believe in god, but it all comes down to one word; comfort. Comfort that someone(god, and all of their dead relatives) is watching over them. Comfort that they can follow a moral code vis-a-vis the bible and the 10 commandments(because they apparently lack an innate sense of reason, responsibility, and compassion), and most importantly if they follow that moral code they will go to a nice place when they die. That ultimate destination also provides meaning to a life that is otherwise apparently lacking. All of this is fine. I don’t begrudge anyone that sense of comfort.  The problems arises when that comfort comes at the expense of others, as in redsox67’s adoption example.
     
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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : I believe this is kind of a simple way of looking at things. I feel that the minute Bin Laden was killed, we should have shipped our troops out of Afghanastan, but we haven't. Our government continues to spend my tax payer funds on decisions (war) which I have no say in. This anaology can be made for a hundred other things which I am paying for; campaign financing which is my biggest issue. Although I know that some Presidential candidates have not taken these funds lately because of the restrictions attached to it. If you don't want your money to go to federally funded abortions, are you okay with your money going to Federal Gov't assistance to those who cannot afford to care for this same child? Simple questions do not have simple answers.
    Posted by jesseyeric


    Jesseyeric:  I was speaking to personal decisions.  Whether or not a country goes to war/takes actions in the citizenry's dime is immaterial for this discussion.  We elect officials to make those kinds of decisions, and once elected don't really have much say after the fact (until re-election).  The decision whether or not to have sex, procreate, abort, rear a child is a personal one.  One that I don't feel the need to fund.  And I disagree, the issue IS that simple.  If you can't afford the results of a sexual relation, there's always a free "out" - simply don't have one.  And if you must have a sexual relation, you should understand that the consequences are on you and your partner.  I fully understand and respect your decision to disagree.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : First, our disagreements on this subject will never change my opinion of you, that is for sure. I respect people who have devout faith, even though I do not share their beliefs. I have studied every aspect of the human race, economically, religion, war, & Universe. I have read all the Holy Books and see the contradictions in them all. I have seen where people throw their hands in the air and say, "It must be God's Will". And to me, that is just an excuse for them not to use their minds.  Faith is so difficult, yet so simple. But as John Lennon said, "Whatever gets you through the night, it's alright, it's alright". May peace find us all one day; I just hope it is before we are worm food. I am just waiting for the mother ship to return and bring me back to the planet Zeist.
    Posted by jesseyeric


    If our friendship can survive the sox/yank rivalry it can survive anything!

    I would like it if your planet zeist and my heaven were one in the same.  We could hang out with all the baseball greats, maybe even have a game.

    Since heaven is a place of perfection I know all sox and yank fans will get along.  At least I hope they will!!!!WinkInnocent
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Hey '67 ... long time no see. Hope your winter was balmy like mine! My oldest son (about to turn 11, which I cannot believe!) was born in a Catholic-run hospital called Mary Immaculate. It was a fantastic experience. Nothing but good things to say about that place and the people there. I hope you understand that while I strongly disagree with some of the church's stances, I have respect for the religion and the free expression thereof. Not to use the "some of my best friends are Catholic" line ... but some of my best friends are Catholic. They know I disagree with some of their philosophies, and I know they disagree with some of mind. But we have mutual respect, which I fear is becoming a lost art. If you don't mind, though, I'd like to ask a question about the example you cited regarding gay adoption. What if the charities were refusing to place African-American children with white parents based on their beliefs. Wouldn't you then expect the government to intervene?
    Posted by LloydDobler


    Hey lloyd

    Good to see you again!  My oldest will turn 31 this year and will have his first child this september.  Time does fly!

    I saw a 50th birthday card that said 'life is like a role of toilet paper, the closer to the end the faster it goes'  There is so much wisdom in that!

    I live in the dc area and it has been a balmy winter.  That's a good thing since I don't think my puppy would like to do his business in the snow, he won't even go out in the rain :0)

    The church basis it's beliefs on what's in the bible.  You can read the scripture quotes at you own leisure.

    Using the black analogy doesn't work. In the church it isn't a sin to be actively black, being black is a natural and good state of being.  It is a sin to be actively homosexual, it is an un-natural and sinful state of being.

    I know this is going to open a kettle of worms in this forum because this issue has been discussed at great length before.

    I'm just trying to answer your question honestly.

    homosexuality sin, homosexuality Bible

    Question: "What does the Bible say about homosexuality? Is homosexuality a sin?"

    Answer:
    The Bible consistently tells us that homosexual activity is a sin (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). Romans 1:26-27 teaches specifically that homosexuality is a result of denying and disobeying God. When people continue in sin and unbelief, God “gives them over” to even more wicked and depraved sin in order to show them the futility and hopelessness of life apart from God. 1 Corinthians 6:9 proclaims that homosexual “offenders” will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    God does not create a person with homosexual desires. The Bible tells us that people become homosexuals because of sin (Romans 1:24-27) and ultimately because of their own choice. A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as some people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins. That does not excuse the person’s choosing to sin by giving in to sinful desires. If a person is born with a greater susceptibility to anger/rage, does that make it right for him to give into those desires? Of course not! The same is true with homosexuality.

    However, the Bible does not describe homosexuality as a “greater” sin than any other. All sin is offensive to God. Homosexuality is just one of the many things listed in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that will keep a person from the kingdom of God. According to the Bible, God’s forgiveness is just as available to a homosexual as it is to an adulterer, idol worshipper, murderer, thief, etc. God also promises the strength for victory over sin, including homosexuality, to all those who will believe in Jesus Christ for their salvation (1 Corinthians 6:11; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Philippians 4:13).

     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    Re: Athletes and religion

    posted at 3/2/2012 10:29 AM EST
     
    Posts: 7026
    First: 9/29/2009
    Last: 3/2/2012
    Okay I will throw the thread into the deep end:

    There is no God.








    Ha... I tried that a few days ago.  The Jesus freaks don't want to hear it.  They just want to copy quotes from a made-up fairy tale... 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortMeade. Show FortMeade's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    People can talk(or type) all day long about the reasons they believe in god, but it all comes down to one word; comfort. Comfort that someone(god, and all of their dead relatives) is watching over them. Comfort that they can follow a moral code vis-a-vis the bible and the 10 commandments(because they apparently lack an innate sense of reason, responsibility, and compassion), and most importantly if they follow that moral code they will go to a nice place when they die. That ultimate destination also provides meaning to a life that is otherwise apparently lacking.   All of this is fine. I don’t begrudge anyone that sense of comfort.   The problems arises when that comfort comes at the expense of others, as in redsox67’s adoption example.
    Posted by Roadrunner9234



    Where does this innate sense of reason, responsibility, and compassion come from? Why do so many religions, cultures, and groups in so many distant civilizations have common traits to their moral code. Could it be due to a superior force or being that lays down a code to them as to what is preferred and what isn't. Does the Golden Rule come to us through this spirit or is it just common sense? Wouldn't common sense tell you to maximixe your pleasure and possessions by stealing, robbing, and ignoring others and even murder if necessary. Wouldn't common sense dictate not being your brother's keeper, not being charitable, and not volunteering to help the needy and sick. Why give to charities, that wouldn't make any sense at all  since it would take $$$ out of your own pocket? Why help a cripple across the street since it would be a waste of your time? Does this sense of right or wrong come from a higher force or is it common sense. I fail to see how you could it common sense, common sense says every man for himself ( screw everone else). Somehow most societies seem to have common knowledge of what is right or wrong - how did that happen without a superior force in their minds guiding them along. Why do mothers take care of their children? Why do children take care of their elderly parents? Why tithe to the church? All of these actions are illogical. Why not cheat on every exam. Why give loved ones an expensive funeral. Why feel remorse that we could have been nicer to people while they lived? Why promise the wedding vows? Why want the best for your children instead of pocketing the $$$. Common sense would be against do all of these good deeds.
     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    Women de facto prostitutes would never allow the government to legalize de jure prostitution. Men would consider it the lesser of the two evil arlternatives to legalize prostitution. Sexual control is what sexual conduct is all about, for an overwhelming majority of women.

    Note: I am responding to the earlier comment about favoring prostitution for contrived bugaboo reasons.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Roadrunner9234. Show Roadrunner9234's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    I would turn that question back to you since you claim to know the source. How does a non-believer come to moral behavior?

    And furthermore, why do they act in a moral fashion when they are not expecting to be rewarded for their morality with eternal salvation? Could it be geniune altruism?

     
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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : You don't understand what the catholic church teaches. It doesn't matter how many catholics practice birth control.  It is still a mortal sin as taught by the church. If a catholic participates in another's mortal sin they have that sin on their soul just as much as the person who committed it. Unrepentant mortal is leads to hell.  Mortal sin can't be left out of this dialogue sin it is part of catholic church teaching. Catholics are forbidden to use or provide birth control.  Those who do will have to face God's judjment as we all do. This is what my church teaches.  You don't have to believe it or respect it, you do have to respect freedom of religion though. Let me say again pregnancy is not an illness.  Health care is for those who want to get well or stay well.  Since pregnancy is  normal and natural it is not an illness so birth control should not be covered under health care.  It is a personal choice so if women or men want to prevent a perfectly normal condition they should pay for it themselves. I
    Posted by 67redsox

    I understand and respect your faith, but essentially you are suggesting that compromises can be made where the act in question is not a mortal sin or could lead to eternal damnation.  My point is that puts Catholicism in a unique class - if you dismiss any religious belief that is not a mortal sin, you are only providing protection for Catholics.

    In other words, you can't win this argument based on the severity of your religious convictions about contraception.  That is irrelevant, unless you are advocating for different levels of protection for each religion (in which case you will need to explain who decides what religions are entitled to what protections).  You have to go back to your original argument, which is that Church-run institutions can over-ride regulations governing their business and industry.  This was essentially the Blunt amendment - but you have to be prepared for the fallout.

    On another point, if a church-run institution prohibited contraception from his / her health plan, but an employee purchased it privately, is the church still complicit, having given the employee the money to purchase the contraception?




     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    I would turn that question back to you since you claim to know the source. How does a non-believer come to moral behavior? And furthermore, why do they act in a moral fashion when they are not expecting to be rewarded for their morality with eternal salvation? Could it be geniune altruism?
    Posted by Roadrunner9234


    Many civilizations that never were exposed to Christianity or other religions that spoke of the afterlife still acted as if they were aware of what was right or wrong. The same spirit was there also. Tribes in Africa and Australia still were charitable and benevolent instead of being selfish before being exposed to any organized religion. The Golden rule was alive there without any outsiders introducing reigion to them.
     
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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    Re: Athletes and religion posted at 3/2/2012 10:29 AM EST   BurritoT Posts: 7026 First: 9/29/2009 Last: 3/2/2012 Okay I will throw the thread into the deep end: There is no God. Ha... I tried that a few days ago.  The Jesus freaks don't want to hear it.  They just want to copy quotes from a made-up fairy tale... 
    Posted by angeroo


    Jesus freaks, really?  If I call  homosexuals homofreaks is that ok with you?  Or is ok to be Jesus phobic but not homophobic?  Just asking.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortMeade. Show FortMeade's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Jesus freaks, really?  If I call  homosexuals homofreaks is that ok with you?  Or is ok to be Jesus phobic but not homophobic?  Just asking.
    Posted by 67redsox


    Many of those who call us " Jesus freaks" still have a Christian funerals and burials for their loved ones, have their children baptised, take religious wedding vows, go to wakes and tell those in grief that God knows what is best, bow their heads in prayer in public settings, say their prayers while cramped in a foxhole being shot at, or have been rushed to the hospital in critical condition, or been diagnosed with a serious disease or ailment.
     
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