1. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    posted at 3/2/2012 4:39 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    Disorders can't be legislated. Behaviors can. Actual harm results from the actions of a pedophile. the only harm resulting from adult homosexuals in their own bedrooms is the religious sensibilities of other people, people who just need to mind their own business.
    Posted by Roadrunner9234


    You didn't answer my question.  Do you consider the teachings of the catholic church to be vile?

    The nuclear family is the cell, the building block of the body of our society.  If you have a healthy foundation, nuclear family, you will have a healthy society.

    If some of these cells, building blocks are made of disordered cells that will cause the body of society to become ill.

    You may argue that some marriages between a man and a woman, that should go without saying, are disordered and you would be correct.  Unfortunately our society is not on firm moral grounds so that affects everyone.

    On the other hand there are many good healthy marriages that produce good sound minded children.  They will make a positive contribution to society.

    So, some traditonal marriages are disordered, they don't contribute to the health of society.

    But all homosexual unions are disordered so they can never contribute to the health of a society.

    No man, or woman is an island so to argue that the homosexual life style doesn't affect others is weak.
     

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    posted at 3/2/2012 4:48 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : You didn't answer my question.  Do you consider the teachings of the catholic church to be vile? The nuclear family is the cell, the building block of the body of our society.  If you have a healthy foundation, nuclear family, you will have a healthy society. If some of these cells, building blocks are made of disordered cells that will cause the body of society to become ill. You may argue that some marriages between a man and a woman, that should go without saying, are disordered and you would be correct.  Unfortunately our society is not on firm moral grounds so that affects everyone. On the other hand there are many good healthy marriages that produce good sound minded children.  They will make a positive contribution to society. So, some traditonal marriages are disordered, they don't contribute to the health of society. But all homosexual unions are disordered so they can never contribute to the health of a society. No man, or woman is an island so to argue that the homosexual life style doesn't affect others is weak.
    Posted by 67redsox


    You are so right.  We are not islands.  This is very true.  My wife and daughter are affected by those around us, including our good and just gay friends.  Our lives are made richer and more whole by them.  And I am thankful that my daughter has the opportunity to learn from them.
     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Roadrunner9234. Show Roadrunner9234's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    posted at 3/2/2012 4:48 PM EST

    I reserve that term for things like nazism.

    But I was raised very strongly catholic, and rejected catholicism and religiousity as an adult. I consider the teachings of the catholic church backward, counterproductive and hypercritical at the very least.

     

  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    posted at 3/2/2012 4:49 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion :   I think the question that roadrunner posed to you, that you don't seem to be able to answer for some reason, holds the answer to your question:  The laws of the land, in theory, and by and large in practice, are based on the Golden Rule.  The decision to make one disorder illegal and one "disorder" legal is based upon the premise that one disorder causes harm to others, while the other "disorder" causes harm to no one.  You may disagree on the latter point.  But it is difficult for many to undertsand why.  That is what Roadrunner is asking for you to elaborate upon.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus



    I go into this in the post below.

    The law of the land is not the golden rule, it is the constitution.  If you want to live by such vague rules then you must consider that for thousands of years marriage has been between men and women.  That could also be considered the law of the land.

    Marriage isn't a right provided for in the constitution so gay's don't have the 'right' to get married under the law.

     

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    posted at 3/2/2012 5:00 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : You are so right.  We are not islands.  This is very true.  My wife and daughter are affected by those around us, including our good and just gay friends.  Our lives are made richer and more whole by them.  And I am thankful that my daughter has the opportunity to learn from them.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    When I lived in boston a hundred years ago I had gay friends, some nice, some not so much.  That can be said about any group.

    My faith teaches me to love the sinner but hate the sin.  Of course there are gay people out there who have good hearts but that does not change the fact that their sexual behavior is disordered.

    Homosexuality used to be listed as a disorder in the mental health community but the pc cops came along without solid proof to the contrary an removed it.

    There are no solid studies that prove homosexuality is inborn. 

    For you and your wife to have openly gay friends is one thing to expose your daughter to that lifestyle at a young age is another.

    We are at an impasse, you won't change my mind and I won't change yours so let's part on good terms.

    GO SOX!!!
     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    posted at 3/2/2012 5:01 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : I go into this in the post below. The law of the land is not the golden rule, it is the constitution.  If you want to live by such vague rules then you must consider that for thousands of years marriage has been between men and women.  That could also be considered the law of the land. Marriage isn't a right provided for in the constitution so gay's don't have the 'right' to get married under the law.
    Posted by 67redsox


    But, i am not talking about gay marriage.  I can understand your side of that debate.  I see gay marriage as positive progress.  You see it as breaking of important tradition.  Fine. Wasn;t what was being debated.

    However, the 'it isn't provided for in the constitution' arguement doesn't hold weight.  the constitution is by nature flexible and plenty has been enacted in law that is not explicitly laid out in the constitution.  The right for women or black people to vote wasn't explicitly laid out either, nor any workers rights.

    B
     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    posted at 3/2/2012 5:04 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    I reserve that term for things like nazism. But I was raised very strongly catholic, and rejected catholicism and religiousity as an adult. I consider the teachings of the catholic church backward, counterproductive and hypercritical at the very least.
    Posted by Roadrunner9234


    You crossed the line my friend, and things were going so well.  Vile, hypercritical, backwards are all degrading terms.  Name calling if you will. 

    So congratulations you worked very hard to end up on my ignore list and you succeeded.
     

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    posted at 3/2/2012 5:10 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : But, i am not talking about gay marriage.  I can understand your side of that debate.  I see gay marriage as positive progress.  You see it as breaking of important tradition.  Fine. Wasn;t what was being debated. However, the 'it isn't provided for in the constitution' arguement doesn't hold weight.  the constitution is by nature flexible and plenty has been enacted in law that is not explicitly laid out in the constitution.  The right for women or black people to vote wasn't explicitly laid out either, nor any workers rights. B
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    Being a woman or black is a natural state of being.  Same sex attraction disorder is not, the two can not be compared.
     

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    posted at 3/2/2012 5:26 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    I think some people need to develop thicker skin. To say Mary was "knocked up"  just means someone impregnated her, i.e. the writer doesn't believe in the immaculate conception. Really not a big deal.
    Posted by Roadrunner9234

    It is a big deal. Catholics regard Mary as the mother of God. Of course I know what " knocked up " means .  I also know it is a vulgar way to convey a message.  You talk about a thicker skin , but you know that that sort of degrading language would never be tolerated if it were used against a minority group or another religion.  You can surely see what results when that happens. But we should develop a " thicker skin."
     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from teilhardian. Show teilhardian's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    posted at 3/2/2012 5:36 PM EST

    I was engaged to a Jewish Red Sox fan, and considered marrying her in her Temple, but the Orthodox Rabbi objected it because I would not convert.  Ouch! So then we tried a Catholic priest from Boston, but when he found out I was a Yankee fan, he said the union would be unnatural. Yikes!! Finally, we tried a Unitarian Minister from New Haven, thinking he could care less about the religious differences, and might like both the Yankees and Red Sox.  When he told us he hated baseball, we figured we had no worries. However, he did ask us to take a New Age pre-marital counseling class at Yale designed to improve marital communication.  After three weekends in a row of enhanced communication, my fiancee and I decided that we could not stand each other. Oh no!!!!!

    Moral: Sometimes it's better to stay close to home...
     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    posted at 3/2/2012 5:36 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    posted at 3/2/2012 3:19 PM EST   dgalehouse Posts: 5182 First: 6/4/2010 Last: 3/2/2012 The leftists do nothing to promote their cause when they articulately defend their liberal position on social issues , but then turn around and use terms like " Jesus freaks " or " Mary got knocked up " , etc. when demeaning the Christian faith.  To get respect , give respect. OK..Didn't come here to get respect from anybody.  I think what I think.  If someone wants to respect it, fine.  If they don't, well thats fine also.  I'm not offended by any of it.  And neither should you be.. I think the "religious fanatics" (is that better?) need to develop some thicker skin here.  Don't get stuck on a phrase like "Jesus freaks", or "Mary got knocked up" but rather the point the poster was trying to make.. Now if that's too logical for ya, go ahead and ignore me like redsox67.  I understand...
    Posted by angeroo
    Too logical for me?  Are you telling me what I should or should not be offended by?   If you pay any attention to world events , you must know that that sort of insulting talk would never be tolerated against another religion or a minority group. Try it some time and find out how thick their skin is. And , by the way , no , " religious fanatics " is not a whole lot better. Do you use that term for all religions , or just Christianity?
     

  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    posted at 3/2/2012 5:43 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : It is a big deal. Catholics regard Mary as the mother of God. Of course I know what " knocked up " means .  I also know it is a vulgar way to convey a message.  You talk about a thicker skin , but you know that that sort of degrading language would never be tolerated if it were used against a minority group or another religion.  You can surely see what results when that happens. But we should develop a " thicker skin."
    Posted by dgalehouse


    I got a kick out of that one also. If you read his other posts you will see he is very anti-catholic.  And a bit hypocritical.  Name calling is wrong when it comes to other races and creeds but when it comes to catholics all bets are off.
     

  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    posted at 3/2/2012 5:50 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Too logical for me?  Are you telling me what I should or should not be offended by?   If you pay any attention to world events , you must know that that sort of insulting talk would never be tolerated against another religion or a minority group. Try it some time and find out how thick their skin is. And , by the way , no , " religious fanatics " is not a whole lot better. Do you use that term for all religions , or just Christianity?
    Posted by dgalehouse


    Talking to that guy is like spitting in the wind.  Look at the number of his posts.  He just came here to stir things up.  Maybe if we all ingnore him he will go away.Laughing
     

  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from angeroo. Show angeroo's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    posted at 3/2/2012 5:55 PM EST

    Do you use that term for all religions , or just Christianity? 

    You must be talking about the "Jesus Freaks" comment.  OK  I understand that offends some of the less tolerant folks here, and for that, I apologize.  I never meant to offend anyone, thats not what this is about.  But for instance, If I met a grown adult who believed in Santa Claus, I would probably refer to them as a Santa freak.  If I met a grown adult who believed in the Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy they would be addressed with a similar moniker.  Same goes for a grown adult who believes in God, Jesus.  Sorry if I pierced your delicate thin skin. 
     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortMeade. Show FortMeade's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    posted at 3/2/2012 6:07 PM EST

    What a great thread to study page by page and make additions to your Ignore list. Some of the rude, ignorant types were already on my ignore list. Some were predictably as shallow and unread on these topics as they are on what is wrong with the baseball forum. Some seem to hate religion more than trolls. Some like to make juvenile jokes about religion, the Catholic church, and those who believe in a God. Some need to read up on history, watch the history channel more often, and seperate terrorists from the Muslim religion. Some think that all religious people are right wing conservatives. Some think that liberals are all heathens. Some get their daily talking points obviously from Rush Limbaugh. Surprisingly many that annoy me on the baseball forum share many of my views about religion. Many were turned away from religion by grammar school experiences and boring rituals at church.
     
    The thread was a success in that fact that it made people think more deeply, learn other opinions  and the reasons for them. DavetheKnave never thought that he would be starting a thread that now has over 300 posts. What was best is that people expressed their sincere opinions and were passionate and sincere about what they said. Normally on the baseball forum many are just trying to annoy and irritate others to get their kicks ( much like a gamethread).
     

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    posted at 3/2/2012 6:30 PM EST

    To all who are against equal rights for gay people:

    In 60 years you are going to look as smart as all the people who 60 years ago thought white kids and black kids ought to go to different schools.  The right side of history has never been hate.

     

  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from zeitgeist49. Show zeitgeist49's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    posted at 3/2/2012 6:34 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    I believe there is a giant chocolate teapot orbiting the sun and, despite the total absence of any objective evidence to support my belief, I DEMAND you respect my faith and allow me to parade it in public. Either that, or you leave your personal, unsubstantiated and unsubstantiatable, childish beliefs at home and I will too. Of course, I would defend to the death your right to believe anthing you want as long as it doesn't affect others.
    Posted by Chilliwings


    Outstanding  post.  I  too  believe  in  the  chocolate  teapot  thing.  It's  circling  the  sun  just  beyond  Pluto.
     

  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from teilhardian. Show teilhardian's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    posted at 3/2/2012 6:35 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    What a great thread to study page by page and make additions to your Ignore list. Some of the rude, ignorant types were already on my ignore list. Some were predictably as shallow and unread on these topics as they are on what is wrong with the baseball forum. Some seem to hate religion more than trolls. Some like to make juvenile jokes about religion, the Catholic church, and those who believe in a God. Some need to read up on history, watch the history channel more often, and seperate terrorists from the Muslim religion. Some think that all religious people are right wing conservatives. Some think that liberals are all heathens. Some get their daily talking points obviously from Rush Limbaugh. Surprisingly many that annoy me on the baseball forum share many of my views about religion. Many were turned away from religion by grammar school experiences and boring rituals at church.   The thread was a success in that fact that it made people think more deeply, learn other opinions  and the reasons for them. DavetheKnave never thought that he would be starting a thread that now has over 300 posts. What was best is that people expressed their sincere opinions and were passionate and sincere about what they said. Normally on the baseball forum many are just trying to annoy and irritate others to get their kicks ( much like a gamethread).
    Posted by FortMeade

    Agreed, pike...I thought it was a very good thread showing wit and trenchant insight, as well as sanctimony, prejudice, and intolerance on all sides of the issue....And I not only liked much of the content of your posts, but their tone as well...Intellectually open to a real extent, and far less angry...I do not mean to be patronizing or paternalistic in saying this, but nice job....Keep it up, my man...
     P.S. But please, please, pretty please....Stop with the anti-troll diatribes...Maybe just give it up for Lent, and work on it from there....

     

  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from zeitgeist49. Show zeitgeist49's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    posted at 3/2/2012 6:40 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : You are so right.  We are not islands.  This is very true.  My wife and daughter are affected by those around us, including our good and just gay friends.  Our lives are made richer and more whole by them.  And I am thankful that my daughter has the opportunity to learn from them.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    You  are  so  magnanimous.  How  good  of  you  to  give  your  approval  to  gays.  You  sound  like  Jerry  Seinfeld  (ie. "NOT  THAT  THERE'S  ANYTHING  WRONG  WITH  GAYS.")
     

  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from zeitgeist49. Show zeitgeist49's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    posted at 3/2/2012 6:45 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : When I lived in boston a hundred years ago I had gay friends, some nice, some not so much.  That can be said about any group. My faith teaches me to love the sinner but hate the sin.  Of course there are gay people out there who have good hearts but that does not change the fact that their sexual behavior is disordered. Homosexuality used to be listed as a disorder in the mental health community but the pc cops came along without solid proof to the contrary an removed it. There are no solid studies that prove homosexuality is inborn.  For you and your wife to have openly gay friends is one thing to expose your daughter to that lifestyle at a young age is another. We are at an impasse, you won't change my mind and I won't change yours so let's part on good terms. GO SOX!!!
    Posted by 67redsox

     

  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from zeitgeist49. Show zeitgeist49's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    posted at 3/2/2012 6:51 PM EST

    Your  thinking  is  is  very  backward  and  doesn't  transcend  anything.  Your  thinking  is  a  product  of  the  times.  Gays  will  have  equal  rights  some  day.  it  may  take  50  years.  It  may  take  longer.  But  it  will  happen, whether  you  like  it  or  not.  Just  like  women's  rights  and  civil  rights.  Why  are  people  like  you  always  behind  the  curve ? 
     

  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    posted at 3/2/2012 7:00 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    Your  thinking  is  is  very  backward  and  doesn't  transcend  anything.  Your  thinking  is  a  product  of  the  times.  Gays  will  have  equal  rights  some  day.  it  may  take  50  years.  It  may  take  longer.  But  it  will  happen, whether  you  like  it  or  not.  Just  like  women's  rights  and  civil  rights.  Why  are  people  like  you  always  behind  the  curve ? 
    Posted by zeitgeist49


    Young people are pro equal rights for gay people, old people are against.  Old people die and a new crop of 18 year olds hits the voting booth every year.  It is nothing more than math.
     

  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    posted at 3/2/2012 7:14 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    God had NOTHING to do with the touchdown catch/throw, homerun, three-pointer or hat trick. And you know that how? Do you have a direct line to the Almighty? It seems to me that these athletes are praising God for giving them the ability to play, and giving Him the glory. Everything a Christian does in his/her life should be to the glory of God. Sometimes it can be perceived as self-glorification.
    Posted by Alibiike


    It's a combo of factors, but to think God has nothing to do with it is silly.  Coaching, parental involvement, nutrition, etc., all help, but it is not going to make someone 6'6" with 4.4 speed.  Some of the stuff you just have to be born with.
     

  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    posted at 3/2/2012 7:19 PM EST

    she expects her church to be subsidised by the state i.e. tax-exemption (I disagree with that, but can live with it);

    It's called a non-profit for a reason.  No profit = no taxes
     

  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    posted at 3/2/2012 7:19 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : It's a combo of factors, but to think God has nothing to do with it is silly.  Coaching, parental involvement, nutrition, etc., all help, but it is not going to make someone 6'6" with 4.4 speed.  Some of the stuff you just have to be born with.
    Posted by Joebreidey


    That stuff is called DNA.