Athletes and religion

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    Re: Athletes and religion

    Mary Magdalene, a big time sinner was at the foot of the cross.

    I think the modern version is that a lot of that was a smear campaign by men thinking the church should be controlled by men.  She should be revered for her role in the early church,
     
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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : "Secularist" here!  I "grasp" Faith, I just don't accept it.  The fact that I "grasp" it is why I don't accept it.  And yes, I do seek "concrete evidence", however I often accept reason.  For example it is hard to accept the Bible once one recognizes the damn world is not flat.  People of Faith should refrain from presuming they know the mind of a "secularlist".
    Posted by scarhill2000


    I don't remember that being one of Christ's teachings.

    Focus on that, and not the old testament, which is more like a Jewish history book, and not necessarily on the leaders of the church either.

    FWIW, I not believe that secularist and spiritualist are mutually exclusive.  I kind of group people as being nice, or not being nice without having to see which ID card they carry.
     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    "The Bible is a book. It's a good book. But it's not the only book." Spencer Tracy in "Inherit the Wind" (Don't know if Darrow actually said that, so I'll credit the actor).
    Posted by LloydDobler


    You  say  the  Bible  is  a  good  book.  Why  is  that ?  The  Bible  is  a  Bronze  Age  holy  book  replete  with  contradictions  and  scientific  falsehoods.  Just  take  the  very  first  page  which  incorrectly  states  that  God  first  made  the  earth  and  then  made  the  stars.  Of  course, the  man  that  wrote  that  had  no  way  of  knowing  that  many  of  the  stars  in  the  sky  existed  long  before  the  earth  was  created.  The  Bible  was  written  by  bigoted  men  and  is  replete  with  chauvinism  and  never  speaks  out  against  slavery.  A  good  book ? More  like  Grimm's  Fairy  Tale. 
     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    I am sorry, but if there truly was a God, then at certain times in the last 12,000 years, he/she would have revealed themselves and done something right for humanity. You know, like slapping Hitler, Stalin, Nero and a few others from committing the attrocities that they did.


    1-You don't know that He didn't intercede.  Maybe Hitler was there to keep Stalin from marching to the Atlantic.

    2-Maybe WWII was inevitable.  The cause of WWII wasn't Hitler and Stalin.  People have gone to war since we first appeared.  Hitler and Stalin are only the most famous because we had developed bigger and badder weapons.  All the same people were invited to a similar party just 20 years earlier, and all the same people attended.  It just ins't as easy to kill 50M people with just rifles.

    3-Had we not had WWII, the next great war might well have been with multiple countries having nuclear weapons.
     
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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : That stuff is called DNA.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards


    And for those people that believe in God, where does the DNA come from?
     
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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    I reserve that term for things like nazism. But I was raised very strongly catholic, and rejected catholicism and religiousity as an adult. I consider the teachings of the catholic church backward, counterproductive and hypercritical at the very least.
    Posted by Roadrunner9234


    Certainly not all the teachings, right?  If you wanted to, and I certainly don't think you have to, but you could just separate good from the bad.  I have no problem with married priests, no problem with women priests, no problem with birth control, no problem with gays.

    The church evolves all the time.
     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    John 8

    31 So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” 33 They answered him, “We are offspring of Abraham and have never been enslaved to anyone. How is it that you say, ‘You will become free’?”

    34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin. 35 The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37 I know that you are offspring of Abraham; yet you seek to kill me because my word finds no place in you. 38 I speak of what I have seen with my Father, and you do what you have heard from your father.”

     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    The priest and the rabbi......

    An Irish priest and a Rabbi get into a car accident. They both get out of their cars and stumble over to the side of the road. The Rabbi says, "Oy vey! What a wreck!" The priest asks him, "Are you all right, Rabbi?" The Rabbi responds, "Just a little shaken." The priest pulls a flask of whiskey from his coat and says, "Here, drink some of this it will calm your nerves." The Rabbi takes the flask and drinks it down and says, "Well, what are we going to tell the police?" "Well," the priest says, "I don't know what your aft' to be tellin' them. But I'll be tellin' them I wasn't the one drinkin'."

     
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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : I go into this in the post below. The law of the land is not the golden rule, it is the constitution.  If you want to live by such vague rules then you must consider that for thousands of years marriage has been between men and women.  That could also be considered the law of the land. Marriage isn't a right provided for in the constitution so gay's don't have the 'right' to get married under the law.
    Posted by 67redsox


    As far as the state is concerned, there should be no such thing as marriage.  there should only be a licensed union.

    As far as the church is concerned, there should be no such thing as a union, only marriage.

    The state should not be able to force the church to recognize a union anymore than the church should dictate to the state that they should only recognize a church form of union.

    'Render unto Ceasar' works perfectly here.
     
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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    Your  thinking  is  is  very  backward  and  doesn't  transcend  anything.  Your  thinking  is  a  product  of  the  times.  Gays  will  have  equal  rights  some  day.  it  may  take  50  years.  It  may  take  longer.  But  it  will  happen, whether  you  like  it  or  not.  Just  like  women's  rights  and  civil  rights.  Why  are  people  like  you  always  behind  the  curve ? 
    Posted by zeitgeist49


    It won't take 50 years, maybe not 10.

    I think Christians should have enough faith in their faith to suggest that God can work things out.  I reckon that, if God didn't like gays, he has the power to keep them from being born gay.

    And as a Christian, one of the concepts we have is that we are to accept the world with all its fault, and trust in God to set things right.  If being gay is wrong, then render unto God His right to administer His own judgement.  He will sit in judgement of gays just as He will sit in judgement of me.  Accept that and worry about how He will judge you.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    The priest and the rabbi...... An Irish priest and a Rabbi get into a car accident. They both get out of their cars and stumble over to the side of the road. The Rabbi says, "Oy vey! What a wreck!" The priest asks him, "Are you all right, Rabbi?" The Rabbi responds, "Just a little shaken." The priest pulls a flask of whiskey from his coat and says, "Here, drink some of this it will calm your nerves." The Rabbi takes the flask and drinks it down and says, "Well, what are we going to tell the police?" "Well," the priest says, "I don't know what your aft' to be tellin' them. But I'll be tellin' them I wasn't the one drinkin'."
    Posted by teilhardian

    Good one , Teilhard.  By the way , my sources tell me that faithful Yankee fans will be admitted to heaven , after all.  Of course , they will have to be relegated to a separate wing , so as not to mitigate the eternal joy of the other residents.
     
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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : You  say  the  Bible  is  a  good  book.  Why  is  that ?  The  Bible  is  a  Bronze  Age  holy  book  replete  with  contradictions  and  scientific  falsehoods.  Just  take  the  very  first  page  which  incorrectly  states  that  God  first  made  the  earth  and  then  made  the  stars.  Of  course, the  man  that  wrote  that  had  no  way  of  knowing  that  many  of  the  stars  in  the  sky  existed  long  before  the  earth  was  created.  The  Bible  was  written  by  bigoted  men  and  is  replete  with  chauvinism  and  never  speaks  out  against  slavery.  A  good  book ? More  like  Grimm's  Fairy  Tale. 
    Posted by zeitgeist49


    I think you need to understand more about the Bible.  Just as a simple starter, ignore anything not directly attributable to Christ.

    Make it even easier.  Just read the Lord's Prayer.  Both sides just make this way too complicated.
     
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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : And for those people that believe in God, where does the DNA come from?
    Posted by Joebreidey


    Dust of the earth if you're a dude, dude's rib if you're a chick. 
     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : It won't take 50 years, maybe not 10. I think Christians should have enough faith in their faith to suggest that God can work things out.  I reckon that, if God didn't like gays, he has the power to keep them from being born gay. And as a Christian, one of the concepts we have is that we are to accept the world with all its fault, and trust in God to set things right.  If being gay is wrong, then render unto God His right to administer His own judgement.  He will sit in judgement of gays just as He will sit in judgement of me.  Accept that and worry about how He will judge you.
    Posted by Joebreidey


    Exactly.  If you're happy than I'm happy.
     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Good one , Teilhard.  By the way , my sources tell me that faithful Yankee fans will be admitted to heaven , after all.  Of course , they will have to be relegated to a separate wing , so as not to mitigate the eternal joy of the other residents.
    Posted by dgalehouse

    True there dgale....That would be one of the higher wings, much closer to God...And you are right, most of the other heavenly residents find their higher level of blessedness hard to abide by, given their understandable jealousy...So that is why God keeps him near his side...Plus, he gets the Yankee scores faster that way as well...

     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : It won't take 50 years, maybe not 10. I think Christians should have enough faith in their faith to suggest that God can work things out.  I reckon that, if God didn't like gays, he has the power to keep them from being born gay. And as a Christian, one of the concepts we have is that we are to accept the world with all its fault, and trust in God to set things right.  If being gay is wrong, then render unto God His right to administer His own judgement.  He will sit in judgement of gays just as He will sit in judgement of me.  Accept that and worry about how He will judge you.
    Posted by Joebreidey


    There is no proof that there is a gay gene. Hence there is no proof people are born gay.  Some people believe if they repeat something enough it becomes fact.  For those who take the time to be informed it does not.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    Tolerance, folks. It goes a long way. Some of you I agree with, some of you I don't. But in the end, we're all going to work every day trying to make the best life possible for our family.

    '67, it's clear you and I don't agree on this subject, but you are a very intelligent woman whose conviction I would never question. Take care ... AND GO SOX!

    I'm done. Peace.
     
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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : There is no proof that there is a gay gene. Hence there is no proof people are born gay.  Some people believe if they repeat something enough it becomes fact.  For those who take the time to be informed it does not.
    Posted by 67redsox


    Luke 6:37
       “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Thanks for ready my long post! Anyone can elect any state of being they want they just can't ask others to give up their religious freedom to do it.  Insurgence doesn't pay for what's necessary to practice Natural Family Planning (NFP) so why should insurance pay for birth control and sterilization. People forget that sterilization is part of this bill.  One could argue that's mutilating the body, not health care.  Where else in health insurance is there coverage to remove or change perfectly healthy organs? You are assuming this new regulation is in compliance with the constitution and all our country stands for, it is not.  The founding fathers wanted a limited federal government.  Freedom of religion is why many came to this country. How does providing sterilization and abortifacients like the pill and the morning after pill protect employees?  Since when has carring a child become a plague? There are many ways to prevent a pregnance. If someone chooses to do so they can purchase the necessary means to do it.  Preventing pregnancy is a choice not a right. Once a woman is pregnant that is a medical condition that should be covered.  Again, she doesn't have a disease like a tumor that needs to be medically prevented.  She does have a medical condition that needs to be attended to.  With my first child I became pre-eclamsic which can cause death.  Thankfully I was in labor in the hospital so the situation was taken care of.  Catholic institutions don't make people wear crucifixes so I don't the head scarf analogy works.  There is a catholic college in my area that provides a classroom for muslim students so they gather to say their prayers.  They want the crucifix to be taken down in that catholic classroom because they don't like it.  Just another attack on catholicism.
    Posted by 67redsox

    I appreciate the thought you put into your responses!

    I think your own experience proves that pregnancy, while a natural state, is not without its danger.  Really, even illness and death are natural states - they are just not preferred states, and they are states that health care should aim to prevent.  If you think about it, any medication that reduces blood pressure, or glucose levels or cholestorol is not really addressing a current condition, but the prevention of a potentially dangerous condition in the future.  Is that so different from contraception?  Eventually, most women will want to take that risk because the reward is so great, but should they be asked to take that risk continuously throughout their lives when there is a medical means to prevent it?  The risks increase with age, for the both the mother and the child - should age factor into the decision?  Is it less of a sin for a woman in her forties to use contraception than a woman in her twenties?  

    But again, in my mind, the debate is not about contraception itself, but how much power you want to give to a church that is acting as a business.  My analogy to veiling women is fair, because it is expressly described in the Quran, and many Muslim Clerics have decreed that it is demanded in the practice of their faith.  Your position on contraception stems from Humanae Vitae, a Papal decree.  If there were a Papal decree requiring all women to wear crucifixes, wouldn't you feel that it should apply to the students of Catholic schools, and the employees of Catholic hospitals?  

    Maybe that's a bit of a 'slippery slope' argument, but the direct analogy is that Christian Scientists would not be required to provide any health care to their employees, and Scientologists would not be required to provide mental health care.

    As for the Christian College, I think I'd need more information before forming an opinion.  If the students were promised a place of worship, then the college should remove the crucifix - if there was no such expectation established, then the students should either deal with it or find another place to worship.



     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Dust of the earth if you're a dude, dude's rib if you're a chick. 
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards


    Sugar and spice, and everything nice, that's what girls are made of

    Snips and snails and puppy dog tails, that's what boys are made of.

    And they wonder why we're so screwed up growing up.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    Your  thinking  is  is  very  backward  and  doesn't  transcend  anything.  

    You feel my thinking is  backward, I do not, hence your opinion has accomplished nothing.

    Your  thinking  is  a  product  of  the  times. 

    I know lots of people in their 20's, 30's and 40's who believe as I do.

    Gays  will  have  equal  rights  some  day.  it  may  take  50  years.  It  may  take  longer.  But  it  will  happen, whether  you  like  it  or  not.  Just  like  women's  rights  and  civil  rights. 

    Comparing my rights as a women to rights of gays is comparing apples to oranges.  Womanhood is a natural state, homosexuality is un-natural and I am personally offended that you would compare me to them.

    Why  are  people  like  you  always  behind  the  curve ? 
    Posted by zeitgeist49


    People like me?  Would you care to clarify?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : There is no proof that there is a gay gene. Hence there is no proof people are born gay.  Some people believe if they repeat something enough it becomes fact.  For those who take the time to be informed it does not.
    Posted by 67redsox


    I work in the fashion industry.  There are regular gays, that you might speak to every day without realizing it.  Then there are gays who are so obviously different, they had to be born that way.  Many are the ways of the Lord.

    And even if you are not convinced, one of the the things that make it fun to be Catholic is that you can let these things go and let God worry about it.  I feel very comfortable in saying God loves the gay people I work with just as much as me.
     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    Tolerance, folks. It goes a long way. Some of you I agree with, some of you I don't. But in the end, we're all going to work every day trying to make the best life possible for our family. '67, it's clear you and I don't agree on this subject, but you are a very intelligent woman whose conviction I would never question. Take care ... AND GO SOX! I'm done. Peace.
    Posted by LloydDobler


    Thanks!

    We do agree on something, GO SOX!
     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : I work in the fashion industry.  There are regular gays, that you might speak to every day without realizing it.  Then there are gays who are so obviously different, they had to be born that way.  Many are the ways of the Lord. And even if you are not convinced, one of the the things that make it fun to be Catholic is that you can let these things go and let God worry about it.  I feel very comfortable in saying God loves the gay people I work with just as much as me.
    Posted by Joebreidey


    Just sayin' Joe...you've posted as many times in ONE year as some have posted in three. Even the Pope didn't make a point of having an opinion ("regular gays"...lol...) about everything. Resting quietly in the Lord's arms CAN sometimes mean you remain mute on subjects too...just sayin'...in reality; no one's opinion means anything.
     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : I appreciate the thought you put into your responses! I think your own experience proves that pregnancy, while a natural state, is not without its danger.  Really, even illness and death are natural states - they are just not preferred states, and they are states that health care should aim to prevent.  If you think about it, any medication that reduces blood pressure, or glucose levels or cholestorol is not really addressing a current condition, but the prevention of a potentially dangerous condition in the future.  Is that so different from contraception? 

    Speaking as a nurse illness is not a natural state. It is not the natural way the body should work. Something goes wrong with the body so illness occurs.

    When a women gets pregnant something goes right with the body.  A baby is conceived because that's the natural progression of the act when the woman is fertile.

    Taking blood pressure medication prevents an illness, an un-natural state.  Taking birth control prevents a pregnancy, natural state.  

    I don't know if you have read all my posts.  The pill and of course the morning after pill causes abortions.  The ending of an innocent life is not a natural thing for a mom to do.

    People don't talk about  sterilization that is included in this bill.  How is body mutilation natural?  Why should insurance pay to remove or cut perfectly healthy organs?


     Eventually, most women will want to take that risk because the reward is so great, but should they be asked to take that risk continuously throughout their lives when there is a medical means to prevent it?  The risks increase with age, for the both the mother and the child - should age factor into the decision?  

    You make the risk seem much greater than it is.  Life is full of risks, getting in your car, flying in a plane, getting a colonoscopy even taking an asprin. 

    There is a risk in childbirth but fortunately health care reduces the risk.  I don't know of any women who looses sleep over bearing a child.  My daughters-in-law is due in september.  She is so excited to be pregnant dyeing in childbirth is not even on the radar.

    Is it less of a sin for a woman in her forties to use contraception than a woman in her twenties?   But again, in my mind, the debate is not about contraception itself, but how much power you want to give to a church that is acting as a business. 

    Power is not an issue, I'm surprised you even brought it up.  The church has a right under the constitution to freedom of religion.  That has nothing to do with power.  Please correct me if I'm wrong but it seems you fear the church gaining power more than citizens loosing their rights.

    Do you think the church is trying to control people by not wanting birth control provided in insurance?  Women and men have easy access to condoms, do you see the church trying to close down drug stores?

    Protestants, jews and others support the catholic church in this.  If it was about power why would jews and protestants want to give the catholic church more power?

     My analogy to veiling women is fair, because it is expressly described in the Quran, and many Muslim Clerics have decreed that it is demanded in the practice of their faith.  Your position on contraception stems from Humanae Vitae, a Papal decree.  If there were a Papal decree requiring all women to wear crucifixes, wouldn't you feel that it should apply to the students of Catholic schools, and the employees of Catholic hospitals?  

    The church doesn't make catholics wear crucifixes so this is a moot point.  By the way all that the pope predicted would happen if women used the pill has come true. So referring to Humanae Vitae is a good thing.

    Maybe that's a bit of a 'slippery slope' argument, but the direct analogy is that Christian Scientists would not be required to provide any health care to their employees, and Scientologists would not be required to provide mental health care.

      Again pregnancy is not a disease so health care should not cover it.  Catholics are not saying they won't provide health care. they don't want to go against their religious beliefs.

    I don't know anything about scientologists or christian scientists.  Do they consider proving health and mental health care to others a mortal sin that has the power to keep them out of what they call paradise?


    As for the Christian College, I think I'd need more information before forming an opinion.  If the students were promised a place of worship, then the college should remove the crucifix - if there was no such expectation established, then the students should either deal with it or find another place to worship.
    Posted by slomag


    A catholic college has the right under the constitution to practice their faith.  No one forced these students to go to this college, a private school, it's not a state school.  They made a fee choice, they have to deal with the consequences.
     
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