Athletes and religion

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    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : I work in the fashion industry.  There are regular gays, that you might speak to every day without realizing it.  Then there are gays who are so obviously different, they had to be born that way.  Many are the ways of the Lord. And even if you are not convinced, one of the the things that make it fun to be Catholic is that you can let these things go and let God worry about it.  I feel very comfortable in saying God loves the gay people I work with just as much as me.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]

    Of course God loves gay people, no one said He didn't  I am a florist so I work with gays also.

    Just because someone chooses to act a certain way doesn't mean they are born a certain way.  There is one guy that my florist friend and I thought was gay because of his mannerisms.  The guy is married with a child so the way a person acts does not prove there is a gay gene.
     
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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : A catholic college has the right under the constitution to practice their faith.  No one forced these students to go to this college, a private school, it's not a state school.  They made a fee choice, they have to deal with the consequences.
    Posted by 67redsox[/QUOTE]

    I tend to agree with this.  We made the decision to send our kid to a school that is overtly religious.  There are some practical limitations on this, but for the most part, the last decision we made was yes or no.  Once we said yes, we really lose our say in the other decisions.

    Or as a sports analogy, we send let another kid join a competitive sports league.  Again, our decision was yes or no.  They dictate when and where they practice, and how they practice, and where the tournaments are.  If at any time we decide we don't like it, or the kid doesn't want to do it, we are free to leave.
     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Of course God loves gay people, no one said He didn't  I am a florist so I work with gays also. Just because someone chooses to act a certain way doesn't mean they are born a certain way.  There is one guy that my florist friend and I thought was gay because of his mannerisms.  The guy is married with a child so the way a person acts does not prove there is a gay gene.
    Posted by 67redsox[/QUOTE]

    ...perhaps in God we find that life is NOT an EITHER this OR that situation.

    Isaiah 55
    8
    “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
    neither are your ways my ways,”
    declares the LORD.
    9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
    so are my ways higher than your ways
    and my thoughts than your thoughts.
    10 As the rain and the snow
    come down from heaven,
    and do not return to it
    without watering the earth
    and making it bud and flourish,
    so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,
    11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
    It will not return to me empty,
    but will accomplish what I desire
    and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.



    ...hence we should dwell on the Word. Debate among men has little fruit. Virtually none. It is far better to remain silent on ALL issues. Does it matter to Christ if there is or is not a "gay gene" in mankind?
     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : A catholic college has the right under the constitution to practice their faith.  No one forced these students to go to this college, a private school, it's not a state school.  They made a fee choice, they have to deal with the consequences.
    Posted by 67redsox[/QUOTE]

    I'll defer to your expertise on this issue, but what I meant was illness is natural in the sense that foreign organic substances enter our bodies and attack our immune systems as a natural course of life.  Our body expects this and has mechanisms to deal accordingly, but we usually seek medical help to speed up the natural process.

    But we also seek help for degenerative issues that are caused by nothing more than life.  Nothing has to go wrong for our bodies to eventually break down, and whether its our eyes, ears, hips, what have you, we usually find ourselves turning to science and medicine to correct the condition of a perfectly natural state that we would prefer not to be in.

    The risk of death is not great in child-birth, but honestly we have contraception largely to thank for that.  If there were no such thing as contraception, and every conception resulted in the baby being born, the life expectancy of women would be cut dramatically, and infant mortality would be through the roof.

    Power is the central issue - right now we're only talking about contraception, but if you set the precedent that laws can be overturned based on the religious convictions of the business owners, it opens the doors to all sorts of abuses - labor laws, tax implications, you name it.  Keep in mind - many of these employees are not Catholic, do not have any problem with contraception, and would be denied what the legislation says they are entitled to.  Whether or not you agree with the legislation, or the idea of contraception as a health care service, the idea that the extent of the services a Jewish nurse would enjoy could be determined by the Pope is simply disturbing.  Telling her she can go find another job is disturbing.  

    As for Humanae Vitae, the decree came in the late 60s - I'd say we're actually a far more conservative society now than then.

     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : I tend to agree with this.  We made the decision to send our kid to a school that is overtly religious.  There are some practical limitations on this, but for the most part, the last decision we made was yes or no.  Once we said yes, we really lose our say in the other decisions. Or as a sports analogy, we send let another kid join a competitive sports league.  Again, our decision was yes or no.  They dictate when and where they practice, and how they practice, and where the tournaments are.  If at any time we decide we don't like it, or the kid doesn't want to do it, we are free to leave.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]

    I sent by son to a military academy in high school, he was ADD so the structure really helped him to do well.

    If a kid talked or pass notes during CQ (2 hour study time) he would lose his weekend leave.

    The kids were there for 6 weeks before they could take their first leave.  Sending him there was difficult and I couldn't wait to pick him up. 

    Shortly before his leave I received a call that my son passed a note in CQ and he couldn't come home.  I started to cry on the phone, his 'commanding officer', dorm advisor was truly sorry I couldn't pick my son up.

    I didn't yell or complain or argue.  When I brought him there they told us all the rules, I knew what I was doing.

    They are a baptist backed school.  They brought the kids to catholic mass every Sunday, they were also required to take a semester of baptist religious studies.  Again, I didn't say a word because I knew before he went what to expect.

    I was told that some parents complained about the rules,  that seemed illogical to me.  I knew what the rules were and I respected them.
     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    Job 42

    Job
    1 Then Job replied to the LORD:

    2 “I know that you can do all things;
    no purpose of yours can be thwarted.
    3 You asked, ‘Who is this that obscures my plans without knowledge?’
    Surely I spoke of things I did not understand,
    things too wonderful for me to know.

    4 “You said, ‘Listen now, and I will speak;
    I will question you,
    and you shall answer me.’
    5 My ears had heard of you
    but now my eyes have seen you.
    6 Therefore I despise myself
    and repent in dust and ashes.”

     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    Job 40

    1 The LORD said to Job:

    2 “Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct him?
    Let him who accuses God answer him!”

    3 Then Job answered the LORD:

    4 “I am unworthy—how can I reply to you?
    I put my hand over my mouth.
    5 I spoke once, but I have no answer—
    twice, but I will say no more.”

    6 Then the LORD spoke to Job out of the storm:

    7 “Brace yourself like a man;
    I will question you,
    and you shall answer me.

    8 “Would you discredit my justice?
    Would you condemn me to justify yourself?
    9 Do you have an arm like God’s,
    and can your voice thunder like his?
    10 Then adorn yourself with glory and splendor,
    and clothe yourself in honor and majesty.
    11 Unleash the fury of your wrath,
    look at all who are proud and bring them low,
    12 look at all who are proud and humble them,
    crush the wicked where they stand.
    13 Bury them all in the dust together;
    shroud their faces in the grave.
    14 Then I myself will admit to you
    that your own right hand can save you.

     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    So are we now talking about gay athletes and their religion? You all seem to have gone off in an entirely different direction form the thread title...  

    For me I am still upset with the "missionaries" who came to North America and endeavored to systematically "tame the savages" .... religion blows. People still die and kill for a God they will never meet. 
     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]But the world is far from ideal and most Western countries have come to the decision that a woman's right to control her body is paramount.  I support that.  Really? How do you feel about prostitution?
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    Similarly.  The world would be better place if creepy, abusive men didn't want to pay for sex (or strippers, or porn, etc.), and the women (and it is generally women, but it works both ways) who accept payment for such things had better options.

    But if adult people freely choose to enter into such transactions it's none of my business.

    Before you ask, I'd say the same thing about drugs, and boxing, and similar activities.
     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    Theodicy and the element of chance in the universe:

    One day a priest and a nun went golfing. The first hole the priest missed an extremely easy put. He shouted, "Damn, missed again." The nun, shocked, warned him "God will get you for that."

    The next hole the same thing occurred. After the priest screamed "Damn It! Missed again" the nun repeated her warning "God will get you for that!"

    On the third hole, the priest again missed, and cursed, but before the nun could repeat her warning, a bolt of lightning came down from the heavens and struck the nun dead.

    A deep voice from the clouds boomed out "Damn It! Missed again!"


    "Having an environment, being in time, and working out a history just like ourselves, God escapes from the foreignness from all that is human, since he is not the static timeless perfect absolute." - William James (A Pluralistic Universe -1909)

     

     
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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Homosexuality is a choice. It IS unnatural, why is it in the animal kingdom, only man exhibits those tendencies? Why also, if it is normal as you say, only approximately 7% of the population say they are gay? Seems to me that of all the men and women, there ought be an equal amount that are homosexual, but there is not. Now could it be that there is a chemical imbalance that causes people to be attracted to their own gender? Maybe, but it's still a sin. People do not have to act on those desires, they choose to. Homosexuals have been around since the beginning of time. Homosexuals should be discriminated against nor hated. But neither should they flaunt their lifestyle like it's some kind of badge of honor.
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    You really believe that.  And that's sad. It is so widely understood and documented it's hard to believe someone today could cling to that falsehood, but some people will believe what they want.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior
     
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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Homosexuality is a choice. It IS unnatural, why is it in the animal kingdom, only man exhibits those tendencies? Why also, if it is normal as you say, only approximately 7% of the population say they are gay? Seems to me that of all the men and women, there ought be an equal amount that are homosexual, but there is not. Now could it be that there is a chemical imbalance that causes people to be attracted to their own gender? Maybe, but it's still a sin. People do not have to act on those desires, they choose to. Homosexuals have been around since the beginning of time. Homosexuals should be discriminated against nor hated. But neither should they flaunt their lifestyle like it's some kind of badge of honor.
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    All your points in this post are absurd, but this will be the second and final one I address.

    Why, oh Brain of Boston, if being lefthanded is normal are only 10% of people lefthanded?  Perhaps they are sinister.....as you undoubtedly (don't) know, the original Latin word for left was "sinistra" because lefties were thought to be somehow evil, or sinister.  Sinistra evolved to its modern meaning of sinister.

    Are lefthanded people different, lesser and sinister sinners because they aren't the same as the 90% of righthanded people?

    Or maybe we aren't all exactly the same and ancient Romans, 67redsox and you are too ignorant, stupid and bigoted to accept that?
     
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    I, for one, pray every night for the souls of left-handed homosexuals....
     
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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : When I lived in boston a hundred years ago I had gay friends, some nice, some not so much.  That can be said about any group. My faith teaches me to love the sinner but hate the sin.  Of course there are gay people out there who have good hearts but that does not change the fact that their sexual behavior is disordered. Homosexuality used to be listed as a disorder in the mental health community but the pc cops came along without solid proof to the contrary an removed it. There are no solid studies that prove homosexuality is inborn.  For you and your wife to have openly gay friends is one thing to expose your daughter to that lifestyle at a young age is another. We are at an impasse, you won't change my mind and I won't change yours so let's part on good terms. GO SOX!!!
    Posted by 67redsox[/QUOTE]

    Simply breathtaking.  Two very close male friends of mine, married, have been together for 15 years already, adopted 2 disadvanted older (9-10) brothers a few years back, and are among the best, brightest and kindest people I've ever known.  My older daughter has known them since she was a child, loves them dearly, and I hope their kindness and humanity has influenced her.  Their sexual preference is irrelevant.

    I would never let her anywhere near someone like you for fear your ignorance and bigotry would rub off on her.  Not even if you were family would I let you spend time alone with her.
     
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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Just sayin' Joe...you've posted as many times in ONE year as some have posted in three. Even the Pope didn't make a point of having an opinion ("regular gays"...lol...) about everything. Resting quietly in the Lord's arms CAN sometimes mean you remain mute on subjects too...just sayin'...in reality; no one's opinion means anything.
    Posted by WesternOregon[/QUOTE]

    Joe is one the most reasoned and reasonable people that post here.  We need more posts from him and people like him, not fewer.
     
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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Of course God loves gay people, no one said He didn't  I am a florist so I work with gays also. Just because someone chooses to act a certain way doesn't mean they are born a certain way.  There is one guy that my florist friend and I thought was gay because of his mannerisms.  The guy is married with a child so the way a person acts does not prove there is a gay gene.
    Posted by 67redsox[/QUOTE]

    Wow!  I didn't know that being married and/or fertile meant you were straight!  You learn something every day....
     
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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : I sent by son to a military academy in high school, he was ADD so the structure really helped him to do well. If a kid talked or pass notes during CQ (2 hour study time) he would lose his weekend leave. The kids were there for 6 weeks before they could take their first leave.  Sending him there was difficult and I couldn't wait to pick him up.  Shortly before his leave I received a call that my son passed a note in CQ and he couldn't come home.  I started to cry on the phone, his 'commanding officer', dorm advisor was truly sorry I couldn't pick my son up. I didn't yell or complain or argue.  When I brought him there they told us all the rules, I knew what I was doing. They are a baptist backed school.  They brought the kids to catholic mass every Sunday, they were also required to take a semester of baptist religious studies.  Again, I didn't say a word because I knew before he went what to expect. I was told that some parents complained about the rules,  that seemed illogical to me.  I knew what the rules were and I respected them.
    Posted by 67redsox[/QUOTE]

    ....but rules/laws you disagree with because of your personal beliefs you think you should be able to ignore and so trample others' rights.  Gotcha.
     
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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Similarly.  The world would be better place if creepy, abusive men didn't want to pay for sex (or strippers, or porn, etc.), and the women (and it is generally women, but it works both ways) who accept payment for such things had better options. But if adult people freely choose to enter into such transactions it's none of my business. Before you ask, I'd say the same thing about drugs, and boxing, and similar activities.
    Posted by Chilliwings[/QUOTE]

    Now just hold on one second here!

    Tongue Out
     
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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : This thread can probably go on until the end of time. Evolution vs creationism . Free will vs free thought . Faith vs science . I guess one day we will all find out. Hopefully later rather than sooner (d*mn Mayans). One thing is for sure, all are to be respected.
    Posted by jesseyeric[/QUOTE]

    Jess, Space ... and all contributors... most certainly the thread can go on ...
     
       I haven't seen a single new argument on any particular position.  

       Even your refernce to the Maya .... I KNOW that December 12, 2012 will not be the end of things.   How do I know?  Faith?  Nope.  I have loans that run well beyond that time  ...

      I am a born again Christian as some others have made claim - and I am most pleased to hear their claims!  I have attempted to live in a fashion pleasing to Christ.  I have preached against those things I believe are sin but all the more have preached of the love and friendship of Christ. There is no finer example of a life lived, no geater hope to overcome the inhumanities of man toward himself. I humbly realize that I fail but am expressly appreciative of His grace and friendship to help me to toward overcoming those weaknesses.  He has offered to be yoked with me to teach me and help assist me with my burdens  ...  so that I may in like kind help others.
      "Think on these things," the Apostle Paul instructs young ones in the faith,"whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things." Phillipians 4:8

      There is a beauty and gracefulness in Christ that is often lost in tranlsation somehow ...

      I ... will hesitate at this point.  I could go on for a very long time, but will leave you all with the notion that life spent following the exquisite example of Jesus is remarkable and filled with "eurekas" that thrill the soul.


       And this I know, as well.  One of those fine gifts is the opportunity to be a Red Sox fan .... :o)

       No, I am not saying He is a Sox fan or chooses sides in athletics.  I am saying that I thank Him for the gift.  


       
      
     
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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Now just hold on one second here!
    Posted by jesseyeric[/QUOTE]

    hahaha
     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    James 1

    2
    ...Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds,
    3 for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. 4 And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

    5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind.

     
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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Jess, Space ... and all contributors... most certainly the thread can go on ...      I haven't seen a single new argument on any particular position.      Even your refernce to the Maya .... I KNOW that December 12, 2012 will not be the end of things.   How do I know?  Faith?  Nope.  I have loans that run well beyond that time  ...   I a m a born again Christian as some others have made claim - and I am most pleased to hear their claims!  I have attempted to live in a fashion pleasing to Christ.  I have preached against those things I believe are sin but all the more have preached of the love and friendship of Christ. There is no finer example of a life lived, no geater hope to overcome the inhumanities of man toward himself. I humbly realize that I fail but am expressly appreciative of His grace and friendship to help me to toward overcoming those weaknesses.  He has offered to be yoked with me to teach me and help assist me with my burdens  ...  so that I may in like kind help others.   "Think on these things," the Apostle Paul instructs young ones in the faith,"whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things." Phillipians 4:8   There is a beauty and gracefulness in Christ that is often lost in tranlsation somehow ...   I ... will hesitate at this point.  I could go on for a very long time, but will leave you all with the notion that life spent following the exquisite example of Jesus is remarkable and filled with "eurekas" that thrill the soul.    And this I know, as well.  One of those fine gifts is the opportunity to be a Red Sox fan .... :o)    No, I am not saying He is a Sox fan or chooses sides in athletics.  I am saying that I thank Him for the gift.         And I know there is a ki  
    Posted by SinceYaz[/QUOTE]

    This works for you and I for one and so happy to read that. It is your life to live and live it the best way you can.

    I on the other hand have lived a completely different life, filled with things that one only sees in the movies. If you had looked up the word decadent between 1978 - 2008, you would have seen my photo next to it. That being said, I have never killed anyone, inflicted purposeful pain on anyone (except an enemy) and have never turned my back on someone because they were different or their views were diffferent. I believe in charity and helping those who need it. I have even walked little old ladies across the street. I have walked into churches and bowed my head out of respect for those around me who do believe. I learned this from growing up with two wonderful parents, not because some book told me to.

    Every story in both the old and new testament & Qu'ran, as far as I am concerned, is a complete falsehood or an embellishment on something else.

    Fact - The birthdate of the historical Jesus is not December 25th. He is either a March or August child. Christians stole the holiday as part of their weeding out the pagan rituals. And although I am sure all our esteemed members are aware of this, but just in case - Jesus of Nazareth did not look like a Rock Star with flowing locks and blue eyes. He was a short, dark skinned man just like all the rest from that place and time in the world.

    Fact - Adam and Eve is a fairytale. How do I know this - fossils. Dinosaurs and such were on this planet long before man. Those who think the Flintstones is a documentary have allowed their faith to take over too much of their lives.

    Fact - The great flood and Noah. If this were actually real, then God would have been condoning incest. Now there were large floods, but not in the Biblical sense that we were raised with (I call this taking liberty with truth - much like Hollywood does)

    Fact - Moses did not live to a ripe old age of 120 + years, 40 of which were wandering the desert and then dieing just before he enters Israel. Historical and new archeology is slowly uncovering the evidence to prove this falacy. Not to mention that it would mean God had one h*ll of a sense of dry humor.

    Fact - During the time of Jesus of Nazareth, there were 4 other men claiming to also be the messiah. This is according to texts which I cannot prove or disprove, but the same texts which most of the new testament is taken.

    Fact - The Council of Nicea decided what to put into the New Testament, not God. They decided what worked best for them to keep, control and increase their powers over those who believed.

    Here are some old testament goodies for you:

    I dedicate this to W.O. who likes to give us different passages from the Bible.

    Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

    Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

    Kill Fortunetellers

    A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

    Death for Cursing Parents

    1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

    2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

    Death to Followers of Other Religions

    Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

    Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

    But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

    Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

    The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

    I think God was into Snuff movies. And there are a hundred others, believe me. The old testament reads like a Stephen King novel. First time I read it, it scared the cr*p out of me.

    I ask all who believe to hold tight to your faith. It belongs to you and no one has the right to take it away from you. But please do not preach about things which you have no clue about. I cannot believe the conversation regarding Gays, the Gay gene and the 7% of the population of man being gay where no other living creature shows this tendency. I did like the response though about LHer's. The one thing about those like me is we have science to back up so much of our beliefs. I know that not seeing is the whole point of faith. But I don't think love, peace, kindness and respect require a God. It just requires common sense and belief in yourself.

    Now I am going to leave this computer before I am struck down. Afterall, this is the Sabbath of the Jewish faith and they are the chosen ones. I don't wish to tempt faith.

     

    Regards

    jessey

     


     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Jess, Space ... and all contributors... most certainly the thread can go on ...      I haven't seen a single new argument on any particular position.      Even your refernce to the Maya .... I KNOW that December 12, 2012 will not be the end of things.   How do I know?  Faith?  Nope.  I have loans that run well beyond that time  ...   I a m a born again Christian as some others have made claim - and I am most pleased to hear their claims!  I have attempted to live in a fashion pleasing to Christ.  I have preached against those things I believe are sin but all the more have preached of the love and friendship of Christ. There is no finer example of a life lived, no geater hope to overcome the inhumanities of man toward himself. I humbly realize that I fail but am expressly appreciative of His grace and friendship to help me to toward overcoming those weaknesses.  He has offered to be yoked with me to teach me and help assist me with my burdens  ...  so that I may in like kind help others.   "Think on these things," the Apostle Paul instructs young ones in the faith,"whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things." Phillipians 4:8   There is a beauty and gracefulness in Christ that is often lost in tranlsation somehow ...   I ... will hesitate at this point.  I could go on for a very long time, but will leave you all with the notion that life spent following the exquisite example of Jesus is remarkable and filled with "eurekas" that thrill the soul.    And this I know, as well.  One of those fine gifts is the opportunity to be a Red Sox fan .... :o)    No, I am not saying He is a Sox fan or chooses sides in athletics.  I am saying that I thank Him for the gift.         
    Posted by SinceYaz[/QUOTE]

    That's a charming post Yaz.  I think you deserve the happiness you have achieved, I wish you well and am 100% supportive of your beliefs.

    However, I think the selfish, bigoted bile being spewed by 67 and Ike has little to do with the sentiments you have expressed.  I do not think they deserve happiness, I do not wish them well and I am not supportive of that part of their views.

    Their is still a vast amount of homophobic abuse going on....attacks, suicides even murder, there's something in the news every week.  Yet these two and their ilk think it's perfectly fine to describe harmless people - that bear them no ill will and just want to be left alone - as sinners and perverts and equate their sexual preference to pedophilia.

    I don't believe in gods, never have and never will....but I cannot believe an entity as kind and graceful as you have described would sanction such abuse.
     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : This works for you and I for one and so happy to read that. It is your life to live and live it the best way you can. I on the other hand have lived a completely different life, filled with things that one only sees in the movies. If you had looked up the word decadent between 1978 - 2008, you would have seen my photo next to it. That being said, I have never killed anyone, inflicted purposeful pain on anyone (except an enemy) and have never turned my back on someone because they were different or their views were diffferent. I believe in charity and helping those who need it. I have even walked little old ladies across the street. I have walked into churches and bowed my head out of respect for those around me who do believe. I learned this from growing up with two wonderful parents, not because some book told me to. Every story in both the old and new testament & Qu'ran, as far as I am concerned, is a complete falsehood or an embellishment on something else. Fact - The birthdate of the historical Jesus is not December 25th. He is either a March or August child. Christians stole the holiday as part of their weeding out the pagan rituals. And although I am sure all our esteemed members are aware of this, but just in case - Jesus of Nazareth did not look like a Rock Star with flowing locks and blue eyes. He was a short, dark skinned man just like all the rest from that place and time in the world. Fact - Adam and Eve is a fairytale. How do I know this - fossils. Dinosaurs and such were on this planet long before man. Those who think the Flintstones is a documentary have allowed their faith to take over too much of their lives. Fact - The great flood and Noah. If this were actually real, then God would have been condoning incest. Now there were large floods, but not in the Biblical sense that we were raised with (I call this taking liberty with truth - much like Hollywood does) Fact - Moses did not live to a ripe old age of 120 + years, 40 of which were wandering the desert and then dieing just before he enters Israel. Historical and new archeology is slowly uncovering the evidence to prove this falacy. Not to mention that it would mean God had one h*ll of a sense of dry humor. Fact - During the time of Jesus of Nazareth, there were 4 other men claiming to also be the messiah. This is according to texts which I cannot prove or disprove, but the same texts which most of the new testament is taken. Fact - The Council of Nicea decided what to put into the New Testament, not God. They decided what worked best for them to keep, control and increase their powers over those who believed. Here are some old testament goodies for you: I dedicate this to W.O. who likes to give us different passages from the Bible. Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT) Kill Fortunetellers A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB) Death for Cursing Parents 1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB) 2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT) Death to Followers of Other Religions Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB) Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night) , and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB) Kill People for Working on the Sabbath The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT) I think God was into Snuff movies. And there are a hundred others, believe me. The old testament reads like a Stephen King novel. First time I read it, it scared the cr*p out of me. I ask all who believe to hold tight to your faith. It belongs to you and no one has the right to take it away from you. But please do not preach about things which you have no clue about. I cannot believe the conversation regarding Gays, the Gay gene and the 7% of the population of man being gay where no other living creature shows this tendency. I did like the response though about LHer's. The one thing about those like me is we have science to back up so much of our beliefs. I know that not seeing is the whole point of faith. But I don't think love, peace, kindness and respect require a God. It just requires common sense and belief in yourself. Now I am going to leave this computer before I am struck down. Afterall, this is the Sabbath of the Jewish faith and they are the chosen ones. I don't wish to tempt faith.   Regards jessey  
    Posted by jesseyeric[/QUOTE]

    Brilliant.
     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    When it comes to the afterlife, I only know one thing, and that is that the believer holds an advantage over the non-believer.  Of the two, the believer is the only one with the chance of being able to say I told you so.

     
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