Athletes and religion

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    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : I prayed to my father a few times and he responded, usually in Italian and rarely with what I wanted to hear. Here is an old childhood memory; I was in my catechism class as I prepared for my first communion. I guess I was around 7 at the time. The Nun who was teaching the class was trying to explain to us about our Heavenly mother and father. She didn't do a very good job doing this and I walked out of the class thinking that my parents weren't really my parents. I went home that afternoon and went straight to my Mama and told her about this. I tell you, I didn't know that a person could turn so many different shades of red in such a short time period. As you might imagine, this beautiful Sicilian woman I called Mama grabbed me by the hand and we walked back to the school and my mother confronted the  Mother Superior and the Nun. Again, not understanding too much Italian, I am not sure of what was said, but I do recall something about carrying me for 9 months and the word pain. Mind you, Mama was a strict Catholic; church twice a week and only the Latin or Italian masses. Anyway, it was pretty funny. Thought I would share. Funny thing now - she is 93, and she has stopped going to church and has become pretty fed up with them. She still loves her religion, but she dislikes what the people behind it have done to it.
    Posted by jesseyeric[/QUOTE]

    The first time I was sent to Confession I was asked to confess my sins.  I was probably about 6 (?).  I said I hadn't done any.  I realised years later he'd wanted me to say I'd had a fight with my brother, poured milk in my sister's soup, etc.  All stuff I'd done but aren't sins, they're the horseplay of children.  But he insisted, and insisted and finally I lied and said I'd stolen money from my mother's purse for which he "forgave" me.   Idiot...browbeating a child like that and forcing him to lie.

    I'd never had a nanosecond of belief in the whole god thing anyway and my parents let me opt out of the charade a couple of years later.
     
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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : The first time I was sent to Confession I was asked to confess my sins.  I was probably about 6 (?).  I said I hadn't done any.  I realised years later he'd wanted me to say I'd had a fight with my brother, poured milk in my sister's soup, etc.  All stuff I'd done but aren't sins, they're the horseplay of children.  But he insisted, and insisted and finally I lied and said I'd stolen money from my mother's purse for which he "forgave" me.   Idiot...browbeating a child like that and forcing him to lie. I'd never had a nanosecond of belief in the whole god thing anyway and my parents let me opt out of the charade a couple of years later.
    Posted by Chilliwings[/QUOTE]

    Confession was also a funny ritual for me as well. I figured out at a young age that it was only a venial sin if you lied to someone to protect their feelings & your own skin. And since I didn't want to hurt the priest's feeling by telling them I didn't attend mass and thereby committing a mortal sin, that I lied to the priest and said I did attend mass and then added one more venial (lying) sin to my count. So hypocritical, but some people truly feel this act of contrition cleanses their soul and who am I to say differently to them.

    The church lost me at a young age also. And as I started to read all the holy books, Old and New Testaments and the Qu'ran, I really started having a giggle. Since all three religions believed in the same God, I found it funny how differently each religion viewed him. I mean the difference in God between the Old and New is insane. It was like someone prescribed Prozac to God and he calmed down. 

    Lewis Black's take is hysterical:

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPQj5ITva9k
     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Many years ago I worked as a nurse at a catholic hospital in Boston.  One of our aids was a nun, a wonderful caring woman. The church teaches that there are certain jobs that need to be done on Sunday.  Nurses, policemen, firemen etc. are helping others so they are allowed to work on Sunday so that isn't a good example. Jesus healed the sick on the Sabbath and was criticized so I guess catholics shouldn't be surprised with the way they are being treated. Catholic institutions are protected by the constitution.  Catholics arn't allowed to participative in mortal sin.  Providing birth control is participating in mortal sin.  Catholics can't exercise their right to their religious beliefs by providing birth control because they will be going against what their religion teaches. The constitution protects freedom of religion.  Catholics have opened many hospitals and schools in America.  Is this country better off if these institutions close?  Tax payers will have to pay to replacement these hospitals and schools. How is Obama care going to work if all the catholic hospitals close? Catholic institutions can certainly hire jews, mormons, etc.  How is it a sin to hire these people?  Is it a grave sin for Scientoligist to pay taxes? Christian scientists are allowed to go to the hospital so of course they can offer insurance. I don't think you have made a good counter argument. You may not agree with the catholic church but if a catholic institution provides birth control then those people are in grave danger of going to hell. 
    Posted by 67redsox[/QUOTE]

    Sure, many Christian Scientists will seek medical help, but many Catholics practice contraception, and don't think any more of it than working on a Sunday.  But the problem is, because there is no concept of hell or damnation or mortal sin in the majority of world religions, you feel like whatever protection you think is entitled to Catholics should not apply to other religions which might adversely affect the regulations that you do approve of.

    I think to really have a clear debate on this issue, you have to put aside the mortal sin idea - in your mind, it is more important than anything any other religion can believe, but that mindset is precisely why we have religious protections to begin with.  An atheist thinks mortal sin is silly.  A Catholic thinks veiling women is demeaning.   A Rastafarian thinks everyone should chill out and listen to some Marley.  But they are all entitled to think and do what they want as individuals, and in their places of worship, but not as business owners with a responsibility to the varied public.


     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    God had NOTHING to do with the touchdown catch/throw, homerun, three-pointer or hat trick.

    And you know that how? Do you have a direct line to the Almighty?


    Read the last line I wrote.... That's how I know...
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Roadrunner9234. Show Roadrunner9234's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    "This thread certainly helps you sort out your level of respect for specific forum participants. It also tells you which ones never read, think, or watch the news. This is good since you can place more of them onto ignore. It tells you for example which ones are heathens, agnostics, have music, wrestling, NASCAR as their God, or are just indifferent to the questions about our existence.The intelligent most probably didn't participate or have left the forum because it is a den of the ignorant. The forum seems to be top heavy with those who believe in nothing"

    Lowelll,

    I've never put anyone on ignore. But based on this post alone I might consider putting you there. It seems like you see the contributions of those whose world view differs from yours unworthy of consideration.

    You certainly are a good little christian soldier, aren't you?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    Most sermons in church today reflect the teachings of Jesus Christ in the New Testament. Seldom do pastors or ministers use the Old Testament except to talk about the prophets who predicted the coming of Christ. The Old Testament is more important to the Jewish and Muslim religions than it is to Christians. The details of the Old Testament need not be taken literally as many are symbolic in nature.

    There are now translations of the New Testament that convert the difficult to understand language into present everyday English. The best that I have seen is the Message Remix: the Bible in Contemporary Language by Eugene Peterson. It is very readible, I could never follow the St. James version. Other readable interpretations are : The Holy Bible English Standard Version by Crossway Bibles and Holy Bible, God's Word Translation by Baker Publishing Group.

    In the Catholic Church today sermons are now given in English and are topical to your everyday life. If you grew up with masses in Latin and all rituals with incense and bells, I can understand why you lost interest. It is no wonder why so many parishioners left.

    If you study the New Testament and the teachings of Jesus Christ you may come up with answers to the many difficult questions about life. Isn't it worth a try.

    I've never heard of anyone finding answers, happiness, and faith by studying the Constitution or Bill of Rights. Outside of our shores, the Constitution is a useless document. Many of you who worship the Constitution seem to believe in "God given rights" but yet you are atheists. Try reading the Bible to define what "God given" rights are and why they would not only apply to U.S. citizens? Every inhabitant on the Globe should have "God given" rights. Read up on Thomas Jefferson and you will find that he was far from a saint.

      The Bible is pertinent to the life of millions in every country in the world and much of it is considered to be the word of a force much more intelligent, knowing, and loving than we can comprehend. If you are looking for some reason for your existence and your purpose on Earth then you might as well give it a try. Get the Message Remix and read the New Testament a bit at a time.  

     
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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]Most sermons in church today reflect the teachings of Jesus Christ in the New Testament. Seldom do pastors or ministers use the Old Testament except to talk about the prophets who predicted the coming of Christ. The Old Testament is more important to the Jewish and Muslim religions than it is to Christians. The details of the Old Testament need not be taken literally as many are symbolic in nature. There are now translations of the New Testament that convert the difficult to understand language into present everyday English. The best that I have seen is the Message Remix: the Bible in Contemporary Language by Eugene Peterson. It is very readible, I could never follow the St. James version. Other readable interpretations are : The Holy Bible English Standard Version by Crossway Bibles and Holy Bible, God's Word Translation by Baker Publishing Group. In the Catholic Church today sermons are now given in English and are topical to your everyday life. If you grew up with masses in Latin and all rituals with incense and bells, I can understand why you lost interest. It is no wonder why so many parishioners left. If you study the New Testament and the teachings of Jesus Christ you may come up with answers to the many difficult questions about life. Isn't it worth a try. I've never heard of anyone finding answers, happiness, and faith by studying the Constitution or Bill of Rights. Outside of our shores, the Constitution is a useless document. Many of you who worship the Constitution seem to believe in "God given rights" but yet you are atheists. Try reading the Bible to define what "God given" rights are and why they would not only apply to U.S. citizens? Every inhabitant on the Globe should have "God given" rights. Read up on Thomas Jefferson and you will find that he was far from a saint.   The Bible is pertinent to the life of millions in every country in the world and much of it is considered to be the word of a force much more intelligent, knowing, and loving than we can comprehend. If you are looking for some reason for your existence and your purpose on Earth then you might as well give it a try. Get the Message Remix and read the New Testament a bit at a time.  
    Posted by lowelll[/QUOTE]

    Hey!  Just like the "Catholicism Wow!" campaign featuring Buddy Christ!!!



    Do you realise how patronising it is to suggest that a dumbed-down version of medieval literature might be more understandable - and therefore acceptable - to people with working brains?

    What's your next suggestion, give our children DVDs of tv adaptations of Daniel Defoe novels and Jonathan Swift essays rather than teach them how to read antiquated English...and why it's so fufilling and important to do so?

     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : I prayed to my father a few times and he responded, usually in Italian and rarely with what I wanted to hear. Here is an old childhood memory; I was in my catechism class as I prepared for my first communion. I guess I was around 7 at the time. The Nun who was teaching the class was trying to explain to us about our Heavenly mother and father. She didn't do a very good job doing this and I walked out of the class thinking that my parents weren't really my parents. I went home that afternoon and went straight to my Mama and told her about this. I tell you, I didn't know that a person could turn so many different shades of red in such a short time period. As you might imagine, this beautiful Sicilian woman I called Mama grabbed me by the hand and we walked back to the school and my mother confronted the  Mother Superior and the Nun. Again, not understanding too much Italian, I am not sure of what was said, but I do recall something about carrying me for 9 months and the word pain. Mind you, Mama was a strict Catholic; church twice a week and only the Latin or Italian masses. Anyway, it was pretty funny. Thought I would share. Funny thing now - she is 93, and she has stopped going to church and has become pretty fed up with them. She still loves her religion, but she dislikes what the people behind it have done to it.
    Posted by jesseyeric[/QUOTE]
    Nice, jessey....My parents are from Ireland and I went to Catholic School for 12 years, surprise, surprise, so I have a few choice anecdotal tidbits of my own.  In any event, though, that is a great slice of Italian Catholic life that you shared...And God bless your mom, still zipping around this earthly realm at 93...


     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    If any of us spoke in the language / style of the King James version or in Shakepearian style in everyday life, we would not only be misunderstood by 99% of those listening but be ridiculed to no end. If 99% of those who try to read the King James version can't make any sense at all out of it then what is wrong with a translation that is in contemporary language. A working brain with a high IQ cannot understand a language that is 500 years outdated anymore than they can understand the same words spoken in Hebrew, Latin, or German. Why teach people to read antiquated English instead of having a biblical scholar do that translation for them? Do you also want the works of historical academic geniuses to be kept in their original Greek, German, and Italian languages? I happened to learn Organic Chemistry, Physics, Calculus, Geometry, and Trigonometry out of textbooks that were written in English? Did you learn these subjects from textbooks written in the original languages?
     
    I am sorry that your experience in a Roman Catholic school turned you off on religion but that is no excuse for you to belittle the belief of Christians with your simplistic comments and pictures of Buddy Christ. Why the hatred? Why don't you focus your rebellion against the Church that failed you instead of using the shotgun approach to shoot down all Christians.
     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]  Did Tim tell you he doesn't have questions?  Or are you making this up so that you don't have to qustion yourself? Many people of faith have questions, but choose to believe in the absence of evidence either way.  It sounds like you are the one refusing to question your own beliefs.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]

    Actually yeah, Tebow has told the world.  Live in Jesus's image and yada yada yada heaven.  Hence "what would Jesus do".  Well he wouldn't hate gay people and he certainly wouldn't vote Republican but that is a topic for a whole other thread.

    There is no "evidence", that is why it is called "belief" or "faith".   1 person can go to church everyday of their life and another can never set foot in a church and reality is both have absolutely no clue what happens after they die.  You can "believe" in heaven but you can't prove it.  So if you want to question my beliefs, feel free... I'm at peace with not knowing and am free to wonder and ponder, it is far more liberating than being a sheep.


     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]If any of us spoke in the language / style of the King James version or in Shakepearian style in everyday life, we would not only be misunderstood by 99% of those listening but be ridiculed to no end.

    Of course, I'm not advocating that. 

    If 99% of those who try to read the King James version can't make any sense at all out of it then what is wrong with a translation that is in contemporary language.

    We should be encouraged, and encourage others, to constantly develop ourselves and aspire to greater understanding.

    A working brain with a high IQ cannot understand a language that is 500 years outdated anymore than they can understand the same words spoken in Hebrew, Latin, or German.

    That's absurd.  With a minimum of effort any English speaker can easily understand 16th century English. Have you ever tried? 

    Why teach people to read antiquated English instead of having a biblical scholar do that translation for them?

    Oof, you really don't get it, do you?  That's the equivalent of saying what's the point of having languages other than English when English is perfectly capable of conveying thoughts?  Ok Einstein, what's the English word for reservoir?  Or the English word for "taking pleasure from other peoples' pain"?  Words are a poor substitutes for thoughts....and the multitude of cultures means there are no exact translations of words/thoughts. Certainly not from someone with the obvious bias of a "biblical scholar" i.e the bible ain't gonna come out lookin' bad, is it?  If you are unable or unwilling to try to understand antiquated English then you will never begin to understand the thought processes of those people.

    Do you also want the works of historical academic geniuses to be kept in their original Greek, German, and Italian languages?

    Not exclusively, obviously that's absurd....we can't all be expected to learn everything.  But should academic research about 5th century BC Rome be done in translated English?  That's laughable, and no credible scholar would agree wth you. (BTW, Latin was spoken in ancient Rome)

    I happened to learn Organic Chemistry, Physics, Calculus, Geometry, and Trigonometry out of textbooks that were written in English? Did you learn these subjects from textbooks written in the original languages?

    Oh dear.....going down.....exactly how many languages of mathematics do you think exist?  How do you think the Spanish write 2+2=4?  Or the Croats?  And, with respect, I don't get the sense that you are a mathematical scholar.

    I am sorry that your experience in a Roman Catholic school turned you off on religion

    Not true at all, I though my anecdote might engender such a comment.  I never believed for an instant...much to my mother's chagrin.

     but that is no excuse for you to belittle the belief of Christians

    If I have belittled, it was only intentional and gratuitous toward one poster who I think has espoused evil, hateful views toward certain types of people.  I have stated several times I am 100% supportive of any - ANY - views though not any action.

     with your simplistic comments and pictures of Buddy Christ.

    Posting "Buddy Christ" was an apt, and funny imho, response to your incredibly patronising post, the gist of which was "if your two dumb to reed the KJ bible, here iz sum ez stuff to reed".

    BTW, it has always amused me that the film "Dogma" has been so hated by so many religious people.  I think it's genious is how it can both abuse the small number of people that manipulate religion for their own benefit but simulaneously celebrate former believers or doubters brought back into the fold.


     Why the hatred?

    No hatred at all....as stated, I've only been agressive toward 67redsox, and I think she deserves it.  One post was deleted by the mods....I'm sure it wasn't because it broke any rules, but it was very strong.


    Why don't you focus your rebellion against the Church that failed you

    Again, no rebellion, and no church failed me.  I was obligated to go to church as a youth, never bought it, opted out as soon as I was allowed...also, I didn't start this post and have largely posted in opposition the attemped hegenomy of 67 and her ilk.

     instead of using the shotgun approach to shoot down all Christians.

    That is completely untrue, unfair and libelous.  I have no more antipathy toward Christians than any other god botherers.  ;-)

    Posted by lowelll[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]67, Institutions don't have rights under the 1st amendment, people do. Put down the bible for a while and read the constitution.
    Posted by Roadrunner9234[/QUOTE]

    Those who own these institutions are people, they have rights, pure and simple.  No one is inferring the building should be covered under the constitution.   Your logic is flawed.

    The church is an institution but they don't have to provide the pill etc. because the church is made up of people.  People are guaranteed the freedom of religion.

    These schools and hospitals said they will not follow the law so I guess that means fewer hospitals and schools.

    You the tax payer will have to pay more for less.  Happy?

    Let me state again that pregnancy is not a disease, it a natural and normal consequence of the marriage act.

    Health care is for people who need to get well or who want to stay well.  Since pregnancy isn't a disease preventing it should not be covered under health care.

    There are many free clinics out there where people can get birth control.  Don't force catholics to commit mortal sin and put their soul in danger.

    Asking me to put down my bible for a while is insulting and uncalled for.  If you want to have an intelligent conversation with please show some respect.  Thank-you.
     
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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Those who own these institutions are people, they have rights, pure and simple.  No one is inferring
    you mean implying, but you are implying
     the building should be covered under the constitution.   Your logic is flawed.  it is not The church is an institution but they don't have to provide the pill etc. everyone, every institution, has to comply with the law

    because the church is made up of people.  irrelevant.  People are guaranteed the freedom of religion. correct, but that does not imply! the denial of others' rights or the ignoring of laws   These schools and hospitals said they will not follow the law so I guess that means fewer hospitals and schools. If that is the cost, so be it.  No one and nothing is above the law.  Do you or do you not believe in the rule of law?  Can we all pick and choose which laws to obey?  Can I put your cat Tiddles in the microwave with impunity because I don't agree with animal anti-cruelty laws?  You the tax payer will have to pay more for less.  Happy?  Yep, any cost for freedom for all is good with me. Let me state again that pregnancy is not a disease, it a natural and normal consequence of the marriage act. Health care is for people who need to get well or who want to stay well.  Since pregnancy isn't a disease preventing it should not be covered under health care. There are many free clinics out there where people can get birth control.  Nonsense.  We live in a collective society, and our society has collectively deemed birth control as a natural part of health care.  Don't force catholics to commit mortal sin and put their soul in danger.   No one is doing that, that's a personal decision (that I fully support).  But if you want to run a business there are certain rules to be followed. Do so, or go to jail...or get the law changed. Simple!  Asking me to put down my bible for a while is insulting and uncalled for. It would be except that you have implied homosexuality is akin to pedophilia....is that more ignorant or hateful....not sure....let's call it a dishonourable draw.  If you want to have an intelligent  hahahaha, got any research to share re that? conversation with please show some respect  start treating all others with respect, you evil, ignorant, stupid person.  Thank-you.  you're welcome
    Posted by 67redsox[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Sure, many Christian Scientists will seek medical help, but many Catholics practice contraception, and don't think any more of it than working on a Sunday.  But the problem is, because there is no concept of hell or damnation or mortal sin in the majority of world religions, you feel like whatever protection you think is entitled to Catholics should not apply to other religions which might adversely affect the regulations that you do approve of. I think to really have a clear debate on this issue, you have to put aside the mortal sin idea - in your mind, it is more important than anything any other religion can believe, but that mindset is precisely why we have religious protections to begin with.  An atheist thinks mortal sin is silly.  A Catholic thinks veiling women is demeaning.   A Rastafarian thinks everyone should chill out and listen to some Marley.  But they are all entitled to think and do what they want as individuals, and in their places of worship, but not as business owners with a responsibility to the varied public.
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]


    You don't understand what the catholic church teaches.

    It doesn't matter how many catholics practice birth control.  It is still a mortal sin as taught by the church.

    If a catholic participates in another's mortal sin they have that sin on their soul just as much as the person who committed it.

    Unrepentant mortal is leads to hell.  Mortal sin can't be left out of this dialogue sin it is part of catholic church teaching.

    Catholics are forbidden to use or provide birth control.  Those who do will have to face God's judjment as we all do.

    This is what my church teaches.  You don't have to believe it or respect it, you do have to respect freedom of religion though.

    Let me say again pregnancy is not an illness.  Health care is for those who want to get well or stay well.  Since pregnancy is  normal and natural it is not an illness so birth control should not be covered under health care.  It is a personal choice so if women or men want to prevent a perfectly normal condition they should pay for it themselves.
    I
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    Individual beliefs are irrelevant. I am only concerned with how a person behaves and treats others, not with what they believe.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    "That's absurd. With a minimum of effort any English speaker can easily understand 16th century English. Have you ever tried? "
     
    I took Engish literature in high school and never had a clue of what Shakespeare, Chaucer, Byron, and Shelley were talking about. In Sunday School, the King James version of the Bible was not unintelligible to me but I memorized it in order to be a good student regardless. I always despised poetry and wondered why poets just didn't write as if they were writing a novel or conversing with me. Why poets prefer to use such words that can be interpreted a hundred different ways was always perplexing to me.

    I don't agree with 67redsox on her interpretation of when life begins. I don't agree with her and her Church that the pill, IUDs, and condoms are equivalent to abortion. That is a stretch but yet her Church believes that.  I see no denial of a life in preventing the sperm from meeting the egg. That concept was news to me before she mentioned it and I researched it. Thank God that I never married a devout Catholic woman and found this out later on. I am firmly against abortion once a fertilized egg is growing. I see no guidance in the Bible on this issue.

     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Those who own these institutions are people, they have rights, pure and simple.  No one is inferring the building should be covered under the constitution.   Your logic is flawed. The church is an institution but they don't have to provide the pill etc. because the church is made up of people.  People are guaranteed the freedom of religion. These schools and hospitals said they will not follow the law so I guess that means fewer hospitals and schools. You the tax payer will have to pay more for less.  Happy? Let me state again that pregnancy is not a disease, it a natural and normal consequence of the marriage act. Health care is for people who need to get well or who want to stay well.  Since pregnancy isn't a disease preventing it should not be covered under health care. There are many free clinics out there where people can get birth control.  Don't force catholics to commit mortal sin and put their soul in danger. Asking me to put down my bible for a while is insulting and uncalled for.  If you want to have an intelligent conversation with please show some respect.  Thank-you.
    Posted by 67redsox[/QUOTE]

    67 - First - thanks for the good wishes on the smoking issue. You know I adore you, but some of what you say doesn't work in real life for many people. However, no one should ever tell you to put down the Bible. That is your right and I will defend you forever on that. But:

    Pregnancy due to rape or incest should be treated as a medical condition and it certainly is not a natural or normal consequence of life. 

    Mortal sin doesn't work because the Catholic Church has changed its view on what is and what is not a mortal sin. As I stated earlier, missing mass was a mortal sin for a good portion of my life and you most certainly could not receive communion if you missed Mass and did not confess this mortal sin. Yet now, it is perfectly okay to attend mass whenever one feels like and receive communion. Confession not required. What happened, the Church change their views on sin? And why is this no longer a mortal sin but contraception still is? Who decides this?

    The Catholic Church and its hiearchy took part in the worst criminal cover-up for centuries and that was the abuse of children by many in the priest hood.

    And we will not even get into their treatment of women as nothing more than 2nd class citizens.
    Pope Gregory himself committed the greatest of mortal sins when he condemned Mary Magdalene to a life of prostitution for centuries even though her only crime was to follow Jesus of Nazareth. The repercussions of this act are still felt by women throughout the world.
     
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    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Actually yeah, Tebow has told the world.  Live in Jesus's image and yada yada yada heaven.  Hence "what would Jesus do".  Well he wouldn't hate gay people and he certainly wouldn't vote Republican but that is a topic for a whole other thread. There is no "evidence", that is why it is called "belief" or "faith".   1 person can go to church everyday of their life and another can never set foot in a church and reality is both have absolutely no clue what happens after they die.  You can "believe" in heaven but you can't prove it.  So if you want to question my beliefs, feel free... I'm at peace with not knowing and am free to wonder and ponder, it is far more liberating than being a sheep.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]

    And you were blessed with a brain and there are many sources to read that just might change your mind. Don't quit with just wonder and ponder. Read about religion and why God exists to many people and why they subscribe to the teachings of Jesus. Watch reruns of Jesus movies on Netflix instead of trash. Volunteer at a hospital or a food bank and see if you feel better about yourself. Stay away from the rituals of churches that are meaningless to you, look for the presence of God in nature / on a mountain top / in a newborn baby's eyes. Give old clothes to a Thrift Shop or rummage sale and see if you feel better about yourself.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    Here are my beliefs as the catholic church teaches.  


    Chris is all good, all love and all holy.

    Men and women are sinners.

    Jesus founded His church on Peter, the rock, the first pope.

    Peter was a sinner, he denied Christ, and he had many other faults.

    Jesus handed the keys of the kingdom to a sinner.  That first pope, that first sinner has handed the keys on to the next pope and so on and so on until our current pope.

    Mary Magdalene, a big time sinner was at the foot of the cross.

    His best friends the apostles  who ate with him and prayed with him abandoned Him at the hour of His greatest need.  He forgave them.

    These holy people, these sinners, were given the great responsibility to carry on Christ's work.

    Why did he choose sinners?  We are all sinners so who else would he choose?

    The teachings of the church come from Christ so they are good.  They are carried out by sinners so bad things can happen.

    A saint is a sinner who doesn't give up.  If you fall a million times pick yourself up a million and one times.  God forgives all repentant sinners of all sins.  If some one doesn't ask for forgiveness then they can't receive it.

    I went to catholic school and have no horror stories.  If a child misinterprets what a nun said how is it the nun's fault?

    If anyone on the board was hurt by the catholic church I truly apologize.  But people must remember that priests and nuns are sinners just like the rest of us. 
    They go to confession just like the rest of practicing catholics.  We hold them to a higher standard and we should, we most certainly should!  But you can't flush the teachings of the church down the toilet simply because you have some bad childhood memories from 50 or 60 years ago.

    There are problems in the church in every generation because every generation has sinners. 

    Some people leave the church because of a bad experience, some leave because they don't like the rules. Birth control is a good example.  Some stay in the church and pick and choose what rules they want to follow.

    They take birth control yet go to mass every Sunday and receive communion.  If you are a marine you don't get to pick and choose what you will and will not do.  You don't say I'll run 5 miles but I won't do 50 sit ups.  A catholic is not in good standing with the church and receive communion if they take birth control. They can't pick and choose what they want to follow and what they don't want to follow and stay in good standing in the church. 

    Years ago the church had some pretty bad problems. Instead of leaving, some strong and holy people stayed to get the church back on track.  St. John of the Cross, St. Theresa of Avila and St. Francis of Assisi come to mind.  Some of you may want to read about these courageous people.  They stayed and prayed and suffered to help the church they loved and believed in.

    Edith Stein was an intellectual who had no use for religion or the catholic church.  She was an intelligent and well read women.  She was jewish.  After much debate and research she became a catholic and then a nun.  She went to the death camps because she was jewish but she died as a catholic nun.

    Some big time sinners became big saints.  St. Francis of Assisi and St.Augustine
    come to mind.

    St. Augustine committed some pretty horrible sins. As a matter of fact he really enjoyed sinning. He turned to God and became a doctor of the church.

    Those who leave the church because the church is made of sinners have no true understanding of the faith. 

    I see a lot catholic bashing on this thread.  If the word 'catholic' was replaced with gay, black, hispanic or muslem everyone would be calling those who made those posts homophobes or bigots.

    The catholic church is the last group of people who can be bashed without any repercussion.

    May I suggest there are catholicphobes on this thread?

    Pregnancy isn't an illness so it doesn't need to be prevented for health reasons, it doesn't need to be covered under health care.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]"That's absurd. With a minimum of effort any English speaker can easily understand 16th century English. Have you ever tried? "   I took Engish literature in high school and never had a clue of what Shakespeare, Chaucer, Byron, and Shelley were talking about. In Sunday School, the King James version of the Bible was not unintelligible to me but I memorized it in order to be a good student regardless. I always despised poetry and wondered why poets just didn't write as if they were writing a novel or conversing with me. Why poets prefer to use such words that can be interpreted a hundred different ways was always perplexing to me. I don't agree with 67redsox on her interpretation of when life begins. I don't agree with her and her Church that the pill, IUDs, and condoms are equivalent to abortion. That is a stretch but yet her Church believes that.  I see no denial of a life in preventing the sperm from meeting the egg. That concept was news to me before she mentioned it and I researched it. Thank God that I never married a devout Catholic woman and found this out later on. I am firmly against abortion once a fertilized egg is growing. I see no guidance in the Bible on this issue.
    Posted by lowelll[/QUOTE]

    The pill prevents ovulation, if a child is conceived then the child is aborted because the pill prevents the lining of the uterus from receiving and feeding the conceived child.  Years ago the chemicals in the pill were developed to provide an equal amount of abortions and non ovulation.

    Now the chemicals in the pill are made to cause more abortions.  As I said earlier many millions of babies have been aborted by the use of the pill. These women never knew they were carrying a child, sad.  I guess they will meet up in heaven.

    The IUD also causes abortions because it too provides a hostile environment for the newly conceived child.

    The church teaches that sex is good and holy when performed in the marriage act.  Think of a triangle with God on the top tip and man and wife on the two lower points.  The closer you grow to God the closer you grow the each other.  I know this is true in my marriage.

    The church teaches that every time a couple has sex God is present because God created sex and sex is good.  God is there because he allows us to participate in His creation of children.  Pretty cool when you think of it!
    If you wear a condom then you are telling God you don't want to cooperate with him.  In other words you turn your back on God.

    The church does not say you have to have 50 million kids ;0)

    I'm a nurse so I understand and respect how the human body works, it truly is a miracle. Natural family planning is a method that respects a woman's body.  You chart certain bodily changes to know when you are fertile and when you're not.

    A husband and wife come together to cooperate with the bodies God gave them.

    A women putting harsh chemicals in her body to prevent something natural is not health care.  These chemical hormones are not safe.  I took natural hormone because I had major female surgery.  I developed a blood clot and ended up in the emergency room, I could have died.  This happed when I took the natural hormones, the chemical ones are even worse.

    I'm not preaching that people should become catholic ( but you are very welcomed in the church!).  I am trying to explain why forcing catholics to provide birth control, a grave sin in our religion, is not keeping with the freedom of religion.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    I don't think people on this board understand that their freedoms are in jeopardy also.

    The secretary of the department of health and human services has been given a great deal of power under obama care.  She is the one who came up with this birth control plan because she has the power to do it. 

    She is not an elected official so if you don't like what she decrees too bad, you can't vote her out of office.  She was appointed by obama

    There are a litany of people like this in the obama care bill.  You may like what this women did but there will come a day that you will not like what one of the other powerful appointees decrees.

    We are loosing our freedoms.  You may be rejoicing that the catholic church is the first to be attacked but don't kid yourselves, this is just the beginning.  Do some research, open your eyes.  Google obama czars.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    "Two consenting adults" is the Leftists' religion. It's tenet is based upon pleasure, no responsiblity and an entitlement to pleasure.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]I don't think people on this board understand that their freedoms are in jeopardy also. The secretary of the department of health and human services has been given a great deal of power under obama care.  She is the one who came up with this birth control plan because she has the power to do it.  She is not an elected official so if you don't like what she decrees too bad, you can't vote her out of office.  She was appointed by obama There are a litany of people like this in the obama care bill.  You may like what this women did but there will come a day that you will not like what one of the other powerful appointees decrees. We are loosing our freedoms.  You may be rejoicing that the catholic church is the first to be attacked but don't kid yourselves, this is just the beginning.  Do some research, open your eyes.  Google obama czars.
    Posted by 67redsox[/QUOTE]

    A litany of people in a health care bill?  You need to work on your command of the language if you hope to be taken seriously.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from WesternOregon. Show WesternOregon's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    Titus 3:9

    9 But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : 67 - First - thanks for the good wishes on the smoking issue. You know I adore you, but some of what you say doesn't work in real life for many people. However, no one should ever tell you to put down the Bible. That is your right and I will defend you forever on that. But: Pregnancy due to rape or incest should be treated as a medical condition and it certainly is not a natural or normal consequence of life.   Mortal sin doesn't work because the Catholic Church has changed its view on what is and what is not a mortal sin. As I stated earlier, missing mass was a mortal sin for a good portion of my life and you most certainly could not receive communion if you missed Mass and did not confess this mortal sin. Yet now, it is perfectly okay to attend mass whenever one feels like and receive communion. Confession not required. What happened, the Church change their views on sin? And why is this no longer a mortal sin but contraception still is? Who decides this? The Catholic Church and its hiearchy took part in the worst criminal cover-up for centuries and that was the abuse of children by many in the priest hood. And we will not even get into their treatment of women as nothing more than 2nd class citizens. Pope Gregory himself committed the greatest of mortal sins when he condemned Mary Magdalene to a life of prostitution for centuries even though her only crime was to follow Jesus of Nazareth. The repercussions of this act are still felt by women throughout the world.
    Posted by jesseyeric[/QUOTE]

    Hey jessey,

    I find that some people dislike the church because of false information.

    For example it is still a mortal sin to miss mass and you do have to go to confession before you receive communion, so no changes there.  If anyone tells you a different story then they don't know what the church teaches.

    You are right in saying those priests who abused kids and those who covered up the situation have committed grave sin and have caused a great scandal in the church.  I can go into what was going on in the seminaries during the 60's and 70's to produce such men but that's a whole other discussion.

    Where did those men come from, where do teachers, ministers and scout leaders who abuse children come from?  Society of course.  So what does that say about the morals in our country? 

    My younger son went to a school that uncovered a child sex abuser who was a teacher and my older son went to a school who had a teacher who sexually abused kids. Thankfully neither of my kids were involved.

    Does this mean all teachers are abusers, of course not.  Does this mean that kids shouldn't go to school and parents shouldn't believe in education their kids?
    No, that would be silly.

    It's just as silly to turn ones back on the teachings of Christ because of the sins of a few men.

    Those men will have to stand before God on judgment day.  I pray for the victims and the victimizers.

    The fact is the church does not teach that abusing children is ok, they teach that it's a mortal sin. If the abuse of kids was a part of church teaching then you would certainly have a right to be angry at the church. So if you want to be angry be angry with those men, not the church.  I am blessed to go to a church with good and holy priests. 

    I worked at a pro-life center for a couple of years.  There was an abortion mill next door.  I could tell you stories!  These mills have less oversite that vet centers.  A spoke with a young woman in early early twenties that had her uterus perforated while having an abortion.  The abortion doctor wouldn't help her so she came to us.  She had to have a hysterectomy in her early twenties.

    That is one of many horror stories I could tell you but I won't.  There is nothing safe about an abortion.  The child is ripped limb by limb from mom's womb, the sharp point of the broken bones can cut a women up pretty good.

    As far as rape goes why does the child receive the death sentence for the sins of his father?  I once heard a women speaking on chastity to high school kids. 
    she said she was a product of rape and very forcefully said no one has the right to tell her she shouldn't be here.

    Some women who have had an abortion after a rape said it felt like a second rape. They felt worse about the abortion because they had no control over the rape, they did have control on wether their child would live or die.

    I'm a women and I don't feel like a second class citizen in the church.  God chose a woman, Mary, to be the mother of Jesus.  He could have come into the world by any means but he chose to come through the womb of a women.  If that's not elevating womanhood then I don't know what is!

    If you are thinking about the priesthood there is a very good reason why men are priest.  First of all Christ chose men to be his apostles.  The eleven faithful ones were at the last supper when the holy Eucharist was established.  He breath on them and said they had the power to lose and bind sins. 

    You have two sacraments right there, communion and confession.  He gave those powers to men, not women.

    There is a great deal of marriage symbolism in the catholic church.  The church is referred to as the bride of Christ.  If the church is the bride then the bridegroom has to be a man.  During the consecration at mass the priest stands in persona Christie, in the person of Christ.  Since the church is his bride (female) the it stands that the person who is in the person of Christ, the groom should be a man.

    I find the story about Mary Magdalene to be one of the most beautiful stories in the bible.  The mercy and forgiveness Jesus showed her is so incredibly tender and touching.  The story gives hope to all sinners that no matter how bad they have sinned. Jesus is there to love you.  This gives me great comfort. I'm not sure how you know she wasn't a prostitute.

    I'm not trying to convert anyone on this board.  I am disturbed by some of the nasty anti-catholic posts however.  I would also like people to understand why the church so upset about loosing their freedom of religion. 

    If it is happening to catholics it's not unreasonable to think that one day it will happen to other groups.

    You know I luv ya jessey, and I'm still going to pray for you about your smoking.Innocent 
     
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