Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxRuleTheRoost. Show SoxRuleTheRoost's posts

    Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks

    I like the idea of Iggy's glove. Doesn't it make more sense to bring him up the end of May? He would have 7 weeks to to work on his offense. If he turns out to be as good as we all hope, its like getting 3/4 of a season for free, as far as service time. We would have an extra year of control by waiting 7 weeks or so. Seems like it would make most people happy. If he is going to learn to bat, at least it won't be on the clock. Unless we have an urgent need it would make sense to wait on the other 3 as well. I've got high hopes for all 4 of them, it makes sense to be patient & have team control as long as possible.
     
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    Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks

    Middlebrooks doesn't have a position on the 25 man roster right now.  He should only come up if Youk goes down with another injury.  Kalish won't be MLB ready until June/July at the earliest as he's recovering from another shoulder surgery.

    I've brought up this point regarding Iggy before, that if this is truly a rebuilding year then Iggy should be kept in AAA for a while for service time purposes and they have the perfect baseball reason to do so considering his bat.  Lava doesn't have an MLB role until there's an injury to Papi or Salty.  I wouldn't call him up just to be a backup catcher.
     
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    Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks

    Holding off awhile on Iggy would also give Aviles & Punto more PA's which will help them later in the season as they do their utility thing.
     
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    Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks

    They compare this kid's defense to that of Omar Vizquel.

    Does it make sense to let talent like this rot in the minors with that type of defensive skill.

    How much will his offense improve in 7 weeks?

    I think he is either going to hit major league pitching or he won't. Another season in the minors can often help a pitcher, but position players do not benefit as much from lengthy time in AAA.

    You think this team that failed to make the playoffs with a high payroll doesn't have "urgent needs?"
     
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    Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks

    In response to "Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks": [QUOTE]Middlebrooks doesn't have a position on the 25 man roster right now.  He should only come up if Youk goes down with another injury.  Kalish won't be MLB ready until June/July at the earliest as he's recovering from another shoulder surgery. I've brought up this point regarding Iggy before, that if this is truly a rebuilding year then Iggy should be kept in AAA for a while for service time purposes and they have the perfect baseball reason to do so considering his bat.  Lava doesn't have an MLB role until there's an injury to Papi or Salty.  I wouldn't call him up just to be a backup catcher. Posted by JB-3[/QUOTE] I would think even if Salty and/or Shop stink it up, you should still wait for the end of May, to bring in Lavarnaway. I guess if Papi went down, you would have to bring him up sooner. You are right about Kalish. He is gung ho, chomping at the bit. Just want to make sure they don't bring him back before the end of May, even if he is looking awesome. Hopefully Youk is healthy. I'm glad we got Middlebrooks for insurance.
     
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    Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks

    Do you think that if the RS had treated the first 7 weeks as Urgent last year things would have been different?  The RS need to play to win straight out of the gate.  I think that there will be a different approach during spring training this year to better prepare this team.  If BV doesn't think that they are ready then more time in the minors will get that extra year of control but I can't see him doing it just because.

     
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    Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks

    In response to "Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks": [QUOTE]They compare this kid's defense to that of Omar Vizquel. Does it make sense to let talent like this rot in the minors with that type of defensive skill. How much will his offense improve in 7 weeks? I think he is either going to hit major league pitching or he won't. Another season in the minors can often help a pitcher, but position players do not benefit as much from lengthy time in AAA. You think this team that failed to make the playoffs with a high payroll doesn't have "urgent needs?" Posted by ZILLAGOD[/QUOTE] If it turns out Iggy is the long term SS, doesn't it make sense to get an extra year of control. It would be one thing if Punto & Aviles were awful fielders & couldn't hit their weight. But both are adequate fielders and will most likely hit much better than Iggy. I want Iggy in there, just wait till the end of May. Iggy gets his PA's in AAA. Punto & Aviles get their PA's, which help keep both sharp.
     
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    Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks

    In Response to Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks": You are right about Kalish. He is gung ho, chomping at the bit. Just want to make sure they don't bring him back before the end of May, even if he is looking awesome.
    Posted by SoxRuleTheRoost[/QUOTE]

    It isn't even about how he's looking in May, it's that even if he's seeing game action by then, he's going to need significant reps to get his timing back before he should even be considered for a call up.  A healthy Kalish could really help out the Sox, but he has to get healthy first after having surgery to repair a torn Labrum on his throwing shoulder in November.
     
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    Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks

    In response to "Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks": [QUOTE]Do you think that if the RS had treated the first 7 weeks as Urgent last year things would have been different?  The RS need to play to win straight out of the gate.  I think that there will be a different approach during spring training this year to better prepare this team.  If BV doesn't think that they are ready then more time in the minors will get that extra year of control but I can't see him doing it just because. Posted by never1954[/QUOTE] I don't think the Red Sox playing with urgency is going to be a problem after how last year ended and having a new manager. I think they know, they need to show the fans & BV they are going to bust their tails. The main question seems to be: Is Iggy's defense so much better than Punto/Aviles, that it outweighs his poorer offense; that 7 weeks would make much of a difference. I think it's probably a wash. Now if he shows up at ST and surprises everyone hitting .250 or better or a obp of .300 or better, by all means start him right out of the gate. If he hits poorly, wait till the end of May. I want him in there, I would rather he wasn't learning to hit, while he is on the clock. 7 weeks in AAA could help him with his plate discipline. If he could learn to draw more walks, not only does that help his obp, it gives Ells, Pedey & AG a chance to knock him in.
     
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    Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks

    FIn response to "Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks": [QUOTE]In Response to Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks : its like getting 3/4 of a season for free, as far as service time. seems so red soxish 2 me like never1954 implies if he's really your best option you use him, sox  or any other team in the ALE can't afford to be so   cute as to play their 2nd best options Posted by pinstripezac[/QUOTE] First off, baseball is a business. Even the Yankees aren't spending like drunken sailors. You have to have an eye on the future. If the Giants had waited 10 days to bring up Linecum, he would have went to arbitration a year later. Do you think the 2 games he started was worth 8 to 10 million raise he'll get in arb? You may, but I doubt the Giants do. If saving millions is cute, I bet the Giants wish they had been cute. If it was a given, beyond any doubt that starting the season with Iggy was better than Punto/Aviles, I would agree with 1954. It doesn't appear to be so cut and dried. Let Iggy work on his plate discipline in AAA to start the season, then bring him in, the end of May.
     
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    Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks

    Another consideration is the fact that with CC out, we may need Aviles in the OF a lot to start the season, making Iggy a necessity for the opening day roster. (We could play DMac and Sweeney everyday, but they are better as platoon players.)
     
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    Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks

    In Response to Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks:
    [QUOTE]Do you think that if the RS had treated the first 7 weeks as Urgent last year things would have been different?  The RS need to play to win straight out of the gate.  I think that there will be a different approach during spring training this year to better prepare this team.  If BV doesn't think that they are ready then more time in the minors will get that extra year of control but I can't see him doing it just because.
    Posted by never1954[/QUOTE]

    Well, according to Jon Lester the games in April aren't very important to him.
     
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    Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks

    In Response to Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks : Well, according to Jon Lester the games in April aren't very important to him.
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]
    Or September?
     
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    Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks

    In response to "Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks": [QUOTE]Another consideration is the fact that with CC out, we may need Aviles in the OF a lot to start the season, making Iggy a necessity for the opening day roster. (We could play DMac and Sweeney everyday, but they are better as platoon players.) Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE] Good point, Moon. I've got my fingers crossed, I'm hoping Reddick is right about CC, probably being ready by sometime in the first week of the Season. Aviles could split his time at SS & OF. If CC takes longer than anticipated, there's a good chance we would NEED to bring Iggy in sooner. I'm suggesting we avoid it if we can.
     
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    Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks

     an injury to Papi or Salty.  I wouldn't call him up just to be a backup catcher.

    Salty has hands of stone and doesn't handle the bat well. A terrible combination. Games in April (see 2011) count the same as games in September. Unless Salty is clearly better than Lavarnway by late spring, they need to stop bean counting and look to park and/or trade Salty. It is nice that Varitek has apparently been forced to seek playing money elsewhere, which will be about has tough for him as it will be Wastefield. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks

    In Response to Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks:
    [QUOTE]FIn response to "Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks": First off, baseball is a business. Even the Yankees aren't spending like drunken sailors. You have to have an eye on the future. If the Giants had waited 10 days to bring up Linecum, he would have went to arbitration a year later. Do you think the 2 games he started was worth 8 to 10 million raise he'll get in arb? You may, but I doubt the Giants do. If saving millions is cute, I bet the Giants wish they had been cute. If it was a given, beyond any doubt that starting the season with Iggy was better than Punto/Aviles, I would agree with 1954. It doesn't appear to be so cut and dried. Let Iggy work on his plate discipline in AAA to start the season, then bring him in, the end of May.
    Posted by SoxRuleTheRoost[/QUOTE]

    The Super 2 issue is another issue entirely.  There's no hard deadline for when a player will be a super 2, since it's based on service time other players have (20% of players with 2-3 years of service time are super 2's).  With the extra year of team control, there is a fixed date that you can target.
     
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    Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks

    In Response to Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks : Or September?
    Posted by dgalehouse[/QUOTE]


    Or anytime someone doesn't make a play behind him!

    But I was addressing the quote he made early last season - he literally said that he doesn't care about games in April.
     
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    Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks

    In Response to Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks : Or anytime someone doesn't make a play behind him! But I was addressing the quote he made early last season - he literally said that he doesn't care about games in April.
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    Andrew, everyone has said things they regret or didn't mean the way it sounded. He was being defensive to criticism by the media, disappointment in himself and the teams performance in April. I think what he meant was, the games in April don't decide the season, with a long way to go. Regardless, it's past history. give the kid a break.

    on another note...Giants??
     
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    Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks

    In Response to Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks:
    [QUOTE] an injury to Papi or Salty.  I wouldn't call him up just to be a backup catcher. Salty has hands of stone and doesn't handle the bat well. A terrible combination. Games in April (see 2011) count the same as games in September. Unless Salty is clearly better than Lavarnway by late spring, they need to stop bean counting and look to park and/or trade Salty. It is nice that Varitek has apparently been forced to seek playing money elsewhere, which will be about has tough for him as it will be Wastefield. 
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr[/QUOTE]

    I'm all for trading Salty and starting Lava from day 1.  Given the current construction of the roster though, Lava wouldn't be starting for the big league club.  I'm not saying that it's right, I'm just say that that's how it is.
     
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    Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks

    In Response to Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks : Andrew, everyone has said things they regret or didn't mean the way it sounded. He was being defensive to criticism by the media, disappointment in himself and the teams performance in April. I think what he meant was, the games in April don't decide the season, with a long way to go. Regardless, it's past history. give the kid a break. on another note...Giants??
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    OK but the games in April do decide the season to the same extent the games in all other months factor-in

    What about the Giants?

     
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    Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks

    In Response to Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks : OK but the games in April do decide the season to the same extent the games in all other months factor-in What about the Giants?
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    They do, but with time to make up for slow starts, which they did, until well you know

    fan of?......
     
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    Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks

    I'm a Sox/Giants fan yes why?  Anti yankee/cowboys.....

    You looking forward to the rematch?
     
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    Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks

    In Response to Re: Avoid Super2 with Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish & Middlebrooks:
    [QUOTE]I'm a Sox/Giants fan yes why?  Anti yankee/cowboys..... You looking forward to the rematch?
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    Thought I remembered you were, as am I.

    Yes, with the same outcome, hopefully. Giants have been road warriors and have the better all around team IMO.  However, if Brady/offense plays the way they're capable of and defense steps up, like they have the past two games, it will be tough. Pats were huge favorites last time, this time almost a pick 'em. One team is a team of destiny...we'll see.
     

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